M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

L1011 · 12-05-2009 10:17pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Build the black route on the bed of the railway line. It's never going to be reinstated and it's dishonest to pretend otherwise. Even if Foynes was to be reinstated as a railway port, it should be with a new coastal alignment rather than a dogleg via Adare.

The track is extant and legally open so this isn't a possibility without a closure order - which won't be forthcoming. That its (I believe) disconnected from the rest of the network doesn't seem to affect whether a line is legally open or not...

Its also a single line, is this wide enough even for a 2+2 to be built on?

Zoney · 12-05-2009 10:41pm

I'm guessing the NRA were against the black route too due to the possibility of local politicians organising a development free for all along its route - it being quite close to the village.

That said, the black route looked a lot more sensible in terms of route and length.

dowlingm: while I certainly don't see anything happening with the railway line in the short or even medium term, I still think your suggestion is rather shortsighted and just a bit of a case of trying to prove a point. At the very least, a railway corridor in state ownership between Limerick and Foynes is I would consider, a valuable asset, even if not in use and requiring reinstatement.

mysterious · 13-05-2009 3:24am

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Actually the blue line pretty much guarantees full access junctions. They'll build either a trumpet or a dumbbell at the M20/21 junction. With the black line, you would get an M7/8 or M7/9 restricted junction.

I dont know anything else about the area so cant comment more on the other options, but thats just what I've noticed.

OMG A PACK OF MONKEYS...

my routewas the best good god. the blue route is just daft, windy, bendy and pontless. It goes to ****ing croom for christ sakes. Blaps itself on the N21 at a ****ing right angle.

Who ever came up with that blue route is a retard. No offence but it has to be said:mad:

mysterious · 13-05-2009 3:28am

tech2 wrote: »

The blue route might be the longest but judging on the map less overbridges/underpasses have to be built. Thats why its curving in order to avoid crossing over a local road.

yes the blue route is so bendy it ends perpindicula to the N21 and starts at Croom

This is actually a sick joke.

you would save time going through Adare, seriously look at how redicoulos it be would for N21 commuters travelling on this bypass daily.

Instead of building an actual bypass, they are building a serpent racetrack.

gjim · 13-05-2009 9:53am

It looks like the selected route involves no house demolition and keeps as far as possible away from existing houses hence the bendiness. All others would have involved demolition. I guess, they decided that CPOing family homes around there would be expensive and politically fraught.

A slightly non-obvious example of how allowing once-off houses to be scattered around the countryside results in greater expense and more inefficiencies in infrastructure provision. In this case, it has increased the capital cost of an important piece of national infrastructure and worse, will impose an burden in terms of efficiency on all users of the road for the foreseeable future.

mysterious · 13-05-2009 4:22pm

They should make a formula one track out of it, its no excuse for this kind of sh!te

Zoney · 13-05-2009 6:04pm

mysterious wrote: »

They should make a formula one track out of it, its no excuse for this kind of sh!te

The route may be more meandering than would be preferable, but avoiding cost and hassle of knocking down people's houses, and probably staving off any of the usual "bypass development" shenangans is indeed worth a min or two of travel in my book (and that is *all* it will be for DC travel). Add to that what Chris pointed out about the likelihood of a full junction at the new N21/M20 point (the black route would almost certainly have been restricted - despite the not so odd fact that people from North Kerry/West Limerick also travel to/from Cork as well as Limerick).

I do however think the western tie-in should be aligned to the west instead of the current plan for a perpendicular connection.

Do not forget either that the existing N21 east of Adare will provide a perfectly adequate link between the village and the M20 - presumably there will be a restricted freeflow junction for it (as would have been planned for the black route which would have commenced along the line of the existing N21).

The final plan may be sub-optimal, but it isn't some kind of oddity dropped from outer space!

Chris_533976 · 13-05-2009 7:48pm

This will be 2+2 anyway so the right angled junction will be a roundabout REGARDLESS of any continuation past Adare. So a right angled turn will make no difference.

Zoney · 13-05-2009 9:01pm

Well, even if it is 2+2 it should be grade separated IMO.

mysterious · 13-05-2009 9:37pm

The blue route is just bonkers..

Lennoxschips · 13-05-2009 10:55pm

Anybody travelling from Limerick to Kerry would be mad to take it.

So in 15 years local politicians will demand a northern bypass to relieve Adare of heavy traffic. Then they will have a ring road!

Only in Ireland....

Tech3 · 13-05-2009 11:07pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

Anybody travelling from Limerick to Kerry would be mad to take it.

So in 15 years local politicians will demand a northern bypass to relieve Adare of heavy traffic. Then they will have a ring road!

Only in Ireland....

Would agree. Especially at off peak times Adare is not a bottleneck. But ......... ramps or traffic lights will be implemented into the town to put traffic off the road. Look at the dock road in Limerick City for example throwing traffic lights on the roads knowing in advance that the N7 ring road will be completed next year in order to put people on the toll plaza.

Irish and Proud · 17-05-2009 2:11pm

mysterious wrote: »

...well seeing that it's the Adare Blue(s :rolleyes:) route they're going for, they may as well not do the N21 Adare Bypass at all. Either your route or the Black route would do a pretty good job. Also, the Blue route is the worst - it's the longest to get to from Limerick, seems the longest alignment itself, and it has the worst junction alignments at both ends - are we going to have a stupid dumb bell (very apt I must say!

) junction with the M20, plus a TOTSO roundabout at the N21 tie-in.

Muppets! :mad:

Regards!

cjpm · 21-05-2009 1:20pm

Apperantly M20 CPO delayed by 6 months and public consultation by 1 month... due to changes at Croom...

Chris_533976 · 21-05-2009 6:27pm

Any more news? What sort of changes are we talking about?

BluntGuy · 21-05-2009 6:54pm

cjpm wrote: »

Apperantly M20 CPO delayed by 6 months and public consultation by 1 month... due to changes at Croom...

Where did you hear this?

clon · 20-07-2009 7:06pm

The preferred route is now up on the CRDO website for the entire new M20.It shows all the juntion from Blarney to Patrickswell.It also lays out the juntion for the Adare bypass.

First section Blarney to Buttevant.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

Second section Buttevant to Patrickswell

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_03_04.pdf

mysterious · 20-07-2009 7:16pm

That Adare bypass is usless.

I will be going through Adare.

That route is at least 5km miles longer and it ends at a rounabout and snakes away from the general direction of destination.

NRA. = ****ing thick.

Tech3 · 20-07-2009 7:34pm

I think the Adare bypass should be made dual carriageway, AADT shows that it is needed dual with a free flow junction to the M20. Its a crap design.

Anyway it doesnt really matter as the M20 is pushed so far back now on the PPP list we wont see it going ahead for a long time. Of course that is not to say the other PPP's will certainly get funding probably not the way things are.

I think the M20 should be prioritised as its a dreadful road, an absolute disgrace linking the republics second and thrid largest cities.

Chris_533976 · 20-07-2009 8:21pm

I think its best that we keep the truth about the M20/N21 (Adare junction) secret from Mysterious for now. I think he'd have a heart attack if he saw the images.

mysterious · 20-07-2009 10:49pm

I seen it.

Afterall all the publicity about NRAs really bad record on designing interchanges. Why the hell do they repeat the same bloody mistake?

WTF is wrong with them?

nordydan · 20-07-2009 10:52pm

mysterious wrote: »

That Adare bypass is usless.

I will be going through Adare.

I have to agree with this. I put the link up on SABRE a few days ago, bypass is so bad that except for rush hour it probably will be quicker to go through adare

mysterious · 20-07-2009 11:18pm

nordydan wrote: »

I have to agree with this. I put the link up on SABRE a few days ago, bypass is so bad that except for rush hour it probably will be quicker to go through adare

Even if its slow going through Adare it would be quicker.

Did you ever play snakes and ladders? Do you realise the nuisance of this route selection? Why would you bring the Adare bypass to Croom? Who in hell would of thought 5 months ago the Adare bypass would end up on a interchange in Croom. You have to then stop at a Roundabout then head vertical up the M20.

The bypass is pointless.

KevR · 20-07-2009 11:23pm

mysterious wrote: »

I seen it.

Afterall all the publicity about NRAs really bad record on designing interchanges. Why the hell do they repeat the same bloody mistake?

WTF is wrong with them?

Would these roads have all been designed at roughly the same time? It is despairing that the interchange mistakes are there for all to see on some of the routes which are finished/open and yet the NRA aren't willing to correct these mistakes for future routes.

mysterious · 20-07-2009 11:26pm

KevR wrote: »

Would these roads have all been designed at roughly the same time? It is despairing that the interchange mistakes are there for all to see on some of the routes which are finished/open and yet the NRA aren't willing to correct these mistakes for future routes.

If Victor allowed swearing on this forum.

I be would cursing the NRA out of it.

Not Really Able

Tech3 · 20-07-2009 11:41pm

Irish and Proud wrote: »

A simple M20/M21 fork would suffice at the Eastern end - if not, a freeflow trumpet similar to the one at St Nessan's (R510) further up the N20 would be the perfect job.

I agree something like this would be sufficent if its only being built 2+2. Although I would rather have M21-M20 freeflow and then a GSJ at the south of Adare if the NRA saw the light and made the Adare Bypass HQDC.

Sponge Bob · 20-07-2009 11:58pm

anyone get the impression the NRA is trying to kill M20 and the ( rather short) M21 in one fell swoop ??

Zoney · 21-07-2009 12:04am

Not only is the planned junction for the Adare bypass a problem, but considering it could be who knows how long before it is built (or at the very least it seems M20 will be first), the junction for the existing N21 needs to pretty much be freeflow - as we may be using it for some time to come.

Whatever about traffic volumes on the N21 through Adare needing DC or not, the fact is that the majority of traffic near Patrickswell (current N20/N21 junction) is between N21 and N20, not N20 and N20.

I can understand the wish to dispense with the "TOTSO" arrangement there is at present but crappy roundabouts is a HUGE step backwards.

The current junction is pretty much a trumpet after all - one can pretty much ignore the R526 connection.

Spongebob: Actually I just think it's ineptitude.

Tech3 · 21-07-2009 12:16am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

anyone get the impression the NRA is trying to kill M20 and the ( rather short) M21 in one fell swoop ??

They are slowly, the PPP's were revised it was posted on the N18 thread about this. It has been pushed way back now, the N11 second PPP and the Galway Outer Bypass are now ahead of it.

See this: http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/PublicPrivatePartnership/file,16119,en.pdf

Its not even in the second programme of PPP's now !!!

mysterious · 21-07-2009 1:49am

Okay we all know the Adare bypass is not that "good". I mean we know it goes completely offline and goes in the direction of Croom and not Limerick and we know that that the Adare bypass ends at a roundabout and then proceeds back up north up the M20. We also know the Adare bypass has so many bends on it you'd think you were drving it for hours.

Well I've decided to upload a map that includes phase 2. This will make phase 1 look perfect altogether.

I've included roundabouts in Phase 2 the roundabout has a circumferance of 2mile radius ( you get spectacular views of the shannon)

Phase 3.
Tullamore metro. ( I can't think that far ahead)

I say push on with this fantastic plan. Forgive me for not spending so much time elaborating on my drawings. I don't have millions to spend on presentations like the ones the T21have done.

I'm just so proud of this.:) I think the Adare bypass should eventually join up with the Atlantic tunnel aswel imo.

If anyone wants the CPO of this just email me.:)

M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

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