The Boards AC Bi-weekly speed sessions

Woddle · 22-04-2009 5:49pm

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Here's what I'll be taking my group through in a lead up to 3k - 10k races in August. I might try and join one of your sessions in Marley also.
Anyone on here is welcome to join if Marley does not suit.

Thanks very much BeepBeep, very nice of you to give us a glimpse into an established clubs routine. There will be plenty of alternatives for people, as long as we're tyring to make the same desired changes in our bodies I think its great to offer a wide range. I'm just looking at Tuesday the 16/6 and am wondering would this race be open to invitation aswell as your club runners. I would love to give 1500 a go.

The attachment from beepbeep is back on page 2 it didn't transfer in the quote

Running Bing · 22-04-2009 5:54pm

Woddle wrote: »

I'm just looking at Tuesday the 16/6 and am wondering would this race be open to invitation aswell as your club runners. I would love to give 1500 a go.

Was thinking the same thing. That race would suit me down to the ground;)

BeepBeep67 · 22-04-2009 8:13pm

Woddle wrote: »

I'm just looking at Tuesday the 16/6 and am wondering would this race be open to invitation aswell as your club runners. I would love to give 1500 a go.

+ Babybing (haven't figured out how to do multiple quotes)

This is an interesting event - my idea about 12yrs ago I think. We invite a number of clubs from Nth Wicklow and Sth Dublin (Inbhear Dee, Greystones, Roundwood, Parnell, DSD & Blackrock) mainly juvs U/9 to U/19 with each final gaining points towards a team trophy, plus a medley relay at the end (unique event I think) each age group does a leg and the team must have 2 females (50m, 100m, 150m 300m, 600m, 900m - it's a 300m grass track) which the points count as double and there is a trophy for this also. Still with me

Back to your question we have some senior races 100m and 1500m and it is open just pay €2 on the night and try not to get lapped by a hot shot Junior.

It is in Presentation Col. in Bray - actually Woddle would be an ideal event for Racepix, the original concept for the event was to give an extra track & field event for Juvs that were not making it past County Championships - we get about 200 on the night!

Seres · 24-04-2009 12:25am

woddle
would be interested in giving this a go as a virtual participant , do all of my training alone ,would be nice to have some sort of virtual grp to work with, just a couple of things , might not do it for full 12weeks ,starting tri training soon and i am not as flexible as other people ,all speed sessions will need to be done during the week for me , so i hope that i dont have to do them on the assigned days

Woddle · 24-04-2009 12:37am

Seres wrote: »

woddle
would be interested in giving this a go as a virtual participant , do all of my training alone ,would be nice to have some sort of virtual grp to work with, just a couple of things , might not do it for full 12weeks ,starting tri training soon and i am not as flexible as other people ,all speed sessions will need to be done during the week for me , so i hope that i dont have to do them on the assigned days

No probs seres, no there will be no set days but it would be nice to try and get as many of the sessions done before you go into tri mode. So if I do mine on a Monday and Thursday, there is no problem with you doing yours Tuesday/Friday. Back to back hard days is a no no and if you miss a session don't worry, just let it go, there is to be no playing catch up and finally just to try and do as close to a 100% of whatever session is laid out. Just an example, the session is 5x600 with maybe 90 seconds recovery, if you can only do 3 or 4 so be it but the aim of the 12 weeks is to get you faster and to complete as much of the planned program that your life circumstances will allow.

Woddle · 24-04-2009 11:12am

The details for next weeks speed sessions are up here http://boardsac.blogspot.com/ have a look and if you have any queries post them here and not on the blogspot.

nerraw1111 · 24-04-2009 11:58am

Cheers Woddle, that's fantastic.

Will do the 2.5 time trial and the 100 metre reps/

christeb · 24-04-2009 12:15pm

Great post Wod. I'll do the Cooper test this weekend hopefully which will be the start of a long rocky road to speediness!

belcarra · 24-04-2009 1:32pm

Hey Woddle,

Great idea, can you include me as a participant please?

Thanks.

new2triathlon · 24-04-2009 1:40pm

Hi Woddle,

Thanks for posting up the sessions. I definetly want to sign up!

So does anyone want to meet in Marley park regularily on Monday/Tuesday morning (must be finished by 11.15!) to do session one?

All the best

New2Triathlon

Woddle · 24-04-2009 1:58pm

new2triathlon wrote: »

Hi Woddle,

Thanks for posting up the sessions. I definetly want to sign up!

So does anyone want to meet in Marley park regularily on Monday/Tuesday morning (must be finished by 11.15!) to do session one?

All the best

New2Triathlon

I'll be doing most of my speed work in Marley and we can def meet up. I'm taking the time trial choice myself and I'm doing it on Sunday as I have a mid week race but the week after if that suits and we'll try sign you up to Boards AC (remembers to do sticky):D

Seres · 24-04-2009 10:42pm

woodle
you mention that the first session 600m/800m is to improve VO2max , can you do that , i thought is was only LT that you could increase ?
whats the point of the 600m recovery between reps , can i change this to a time recovery ?
for session 2 , the 8-12 *100ms , will this benefit me as i am training for 10K ?
session 2 , what exactly do you mean by running form and leg turnover ( no of strides per 100m) ?
sorry for all the queries its just that i have the womens mini marathon in a couple of weeks and want to do the best sessions at the moment to improve my time ?

figs · 24-04-2009 10:57pm

"6x800m @ 5k race pace, the recovery of which should be 600m"

Gulp!

Just checking I'm getting this, is that 600m between each 800m lap? 7800m in total? Plus warm-up / down, etc...

Woddle · 24-04-2009 11:15pm

Seres wrote: »

woodle
you mention that the first session 600m/800m is to improve VO2max , can you do that , i thought is was only LT that you could increase ?
whats the point of the 600m recovery between reps , can i change this to a time recovery ?
for session 2 , the 8-12 *100ms , will this benefit me as i am training for 10K ?
session 2 , what exactly do you mean by running form and leg turnover ( no of strides per 100m) ?
sorry for all the queries its just that i have the womens mini marathon in a couple of weeks and want to do the best sessions at the moment to improve my time ?

Hi Seres I'm hoping Amadeus might come along and explain this better but yes you can improve your vo2 max, I'll take a paragraph from Salazars book that will tell you why a 10k runner should be aiming to improve vo2 max
Even small changes in vo2max though translate into significant gains in speed . All other things being equal a 5% gain in vo2max is equivalent to a 5% speedup, the difference between a 50 minute 10k and a 47:30.
Yes you can change this to a time recovery, I having a garmin just find distance easier and in the Salazar book he has a great table for recoveries for all interval disatances. In the Pfitzinger/Douglas book he reckons a recovery of 50-90% of the time it took you to complete the interval. So maybe lean more towards caution and start close to the 90% and then try and shorten your recoveries to what suits you best.
Regarding session 2, Pfitzinger says it is not essential for 8k-10k runners but that it is good for your finishing speed and improving your basic speed. These sessions don't take long and there great for taking the time while running very fast to concentrate on how your body is moving and make it more fluent and economical. Leg turnover is exactly that. I can't remember the exact rate, I'm nearly sure you should be aiming for 180 strides per minute(90 each leg), I think I'm at 165 and it is sth I'm trying to improve. I am open to correction on any of the above as this is a learning curve for me too. I have invited a few people through pms to have a say on this thread and make sure that we're on track.
Also to let you know, week 2 will have a specific session for lactate threshold. What date is your race.

Woddle · 24-04-2009 11:22pm

figs wrote: »

"6x800m @ 5k race pace, the recovery of which should be 600m"

Gulp!

Just checking I'm getting this, is that 600m between each 800m lap? 7800m in total? Plus warm-up / down, etc...

It sure is Figs

but the reason I gave a few choices was to accomadate runners who are working of lower milage or tight time constraints, so you could always check out the 600m intervals. But for you if you can fit in the 800s you should as your flying and they'll stand to you and 6x800 can be intimidating so theres always 4x800. The main thing is that your getting the speed work in and that its not been neglected.

Seres · 24-04-2009 11:27pm

hey woddle
thanks for the quick reply , main race on 1st June , after that will be focusing more on tri training
just one more thing re session 1 , i am not really sure what my 5k race speed is , will i just go at a pace thats comfortable or can you give me a time i should be aiming for, for each rep if my target 10k time is 42min?
really havent a clue how fast i should run the 100m either

figs · 24-04-2009 11:32pm

Tks Woddle. Best get some sleep then... planning doing this first thing in the morning.

Distance/time element not a problem, just reckon I'll be pushing hard, and will really feel it after the first two few laps!

Woddle · 24-04-2009 11:35pm

figs wrote: »

Tks Woddle. Best get some sleep then... planning doing this first thing in the morning.

Distance/time element not a problem, just reckon I'll be pushing hard, and will really feel it after the first two few laps!

Just remember Figs you had a tough race on Wednesday and your muscles may not have forgiven you yet, so caution is advised, its more about building foundations, so maybe relax the pace a bit more than what you normally would, only a suggestio but glad to hear your starting

Woddle · 24-04-2009 11:43pm

Seres wrote: »

hey woddle
thanks for the quick reply , main race on 1st June , after that will be focusing more on tri training
just one more thing re session 1 , i am not really sure what my 5k race speed is , will i just go at a pace thats comfortable or can you give me a time i should be aiming for, for each rep if my target 10k time is 42min?
really havent a clue how fast i should run the 100m either

Hi Seres the 100s are to be quick but def not an all out sprint, trial and error and remember once your form is gone and your running with your arms all over the place and the head bobbing call it a day. Strong, fast and controlled is what they should be.
Regarding pace for the 800s, I think you should start by aiming for 3:30 but you probably should be doing them at 3:15 but start slower and again it will be trial and error but you should set out exactly how many reps you want to do before the session and stick to it, if you can't complete set target it means you ran them too fast and you'll know for next time.
If 600s maybe start at 2:40 and see how it feels and try aim for 2:25 if the 2:40 is too slow. The reasons I have these figures is because 42 is roughly my current 10k time. So change to how you feel. Best of luck

Seres · 24-04-2009 11:58pm

thanks , will let you know how i get on during the week re session 1
sorry just one unrelated question , have 10k monday week, whats the best way to lay out next weeks training so my training remains as undisturbed as possible ?

Woddle · 25-04-2009 9:08am

Seres wrote: »

thanks , will let you know how i get on during the week re session 1
sorry just one unrelated question , have 10k monday week, whats the best way to lay out next weeks training so my training remains as undisturbed as possible ?

I think sosa has a thread somewhere were racing flat gave him some great advice, I'll see if I can find it.

figs · 25-04-2009 10:46am

First session completed this morning. Will write more about the pain in my log.

Picked the 6 x 800m option. Was aiming for a 18:40 5k time, so it worked out as 1:30 a lap. Started well, then faded. Legs felt heavy. Picked it up again towards the end. Splits below:

Set - 1st 400m / 2nd 400m
1 - 1:29 / 1:31
2 - 1:31 / 1:33
3 - 1:38 / 1:44
4 - 1:40 / 1:50
5 - 1:43 / 1:49
6 - 1:35 / 1:38

Woddle · 25-04-2009 10:46am

Here Seres I found it.

Racing Flat wrote: »

The sub 7 runs are a bit in no mans land territory i think.

Mon 6 easy
Tues 2 x 10min tempo at 10mile pace OR 4 x 1k at slightly slower than 5k pace
Wed 6 easy
Thurs 6 easy with 4 x 20secs at 1 mile pace
Fri Rest
Sat 3 easy with 4 x 30secs at race pace
Sun Race

Now this was for Sosa who probably does 40ish miles a week, so change the distance to suit yourself

Woddle · 25-04-2009 10:53am

figs wrote: »

First session completed this morning. Will write more about the pain in my log.

Picked the 6 x 800m option. Was aiming for a 18:40 5k time, so it worked out as 1:30 a lap. Started well, then faded. Legs felt heavy. Picked it up again towards the end. Splits below:

Well done Figs, I'll check your log out later , well done on finishing the 6 as its a tough session and how did you feel after and how did you find the recoveries ?, did you feel satisfied with your effort. One thing I'll have to check or maybe someone can answer it here, is I wonder should you have been aiming to do each rep at current 5k race pace and not what you'll be hoping to do after the 12 weeks, obviously as the weeks go by, your pace will pick up automatically. Great stuff Figs.

figs · 25-04-2009 11:07am

Woddle wrote: »

Well done Figs, I'll check your log out later , well done on finishing the 6 as its a tough session and how did you feel after and how did you find the recoveries ?, did you feel satisfied with your effort. One thing I'll have to check or maybe someone can answer it here, is I wonder should you have been aiming to do each rep at current 5k race pace and not what you'll be hoping to do after the 12 weeks, obviously as the weeks go by, your pace will pick up automatically. Great stuff Figs.

My current best 5k was a 20:27 on 15th March this year. That puts me at 1:38 a lap by http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/paces.php.

I'm planning on aiming for 18:40 for 5k, which is conveniently 1:30 a lap.

First two felt ok. Three felt really hard. Four, harder still, and I was ready to quit. Told myself to do five as best I could. I was almost on my way home after five, and I said I'd do the last for pigiron. Six felt better. I think I'd forgotten about the pain. Recovery run of 600m was very slow at times.

Racing Flat · 25-04-2009 11:27am

figs wrote: »

My current best 5k was a 20:27 on 15th March this year. That puts me at 1:38 a lap by http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/paces.php.

I'm planning on aiming for 18:40 for 5k, which is conveniently 1:30 a lap.

First two felt ok. Three felt really hard. Four, harder still, and I was ready to quit. Told myself to do five as best I could. I was almost on my way home after five, and I said I'd do the last for pigiron. Six felt better. I think I'd forgotten about the pain. Recovery run of 600m was very slow at times.

I would imagine you should have done them at 1.38 each at the fastest. That way you might have had them all consistently around there. Shouldn't be more than a second or two out each one. When you run 18.40 you can do them at 1.30 each, but until then, perhaps stick to 1.38.

Also, doing them on your own it's easier to drop a few secs in the middle - do them with others of the same standard and it might be easier to stay consistent.

jlang · 25-04-2009 1:15pm

Just did my 800x6. Measured 600 and 800 along a 1400m road with mapmyrun so the distances may not be exact but they'd be consistent each time.

Not too sure what pace to aim for so took the 5k time inferred by McMillan for my fastest race (25:38 / 4 mile from a few weeks back) and that gave me 3:08 for each 800m. So between 3:00 and 3:08 was my target.

New to this so I started far too fast the first time but could only keep up the pace for maybe 400-500m and limped in for 2:54. Wasn't too sure about continuing with the 6th iteration but figured I was at the far end of the course so I had to run home anyway! All around quite happy as I haven't run all week and had a bit of a cold the last few days and I didn't really have distance feedback mid-interval like I'd have on a track. If I did the same again on a different day I think 6 3:00s should be achievable.

Times :
Intervals ... 2:54 3:03 3:04 3:08 3:09 3:12
Recovery ... 3:37 3:50 3:50 3:52 4:00
With warm-up and jog back home, total: 9.87km in 50:10.

Woddle · 25-04-2009 1:23pm

Thats excellent jlang, yourself and figs are of to a flyer and your pacing wasn't too far off, I would imagine if you slowed the first 3 down you would have hit 3:08 in the last 1 no problems. I did a set of 200s at the start of the week and made the same basic error of doing the first one too fast in 37 seconds causing me to run 3 of the last 4 @ 46 seconds but mistakes are ok, its the not repeating them thats important.

belcarra · 25-04-2009 1:48pm

jlang wrote: »

Intervals ... 2:54 3:03 3:04 3:08 3:09 3:12
Recovery ... 3:37 3:50 3:50 3:52 4:00

Should recovery time allowed between reps have been less??
According to http://www.runningforfitness.org rec time should be limited to equivalent of 400m time or half the rep,
eg 3min per 800km, therefore 1:30min rec?

This would have made the session even much tougher no doubt!

Anyways, about to go and try the 2.5mile time trial myself but not looking forward to it as had a fair few beers last night:eek:

So, hoping for about 18:45min....time will tell!!

robinph · 25-04-2009 2:01pm

belcarra wrote: »

Anyways, about to go and try the 2.5mile time trial myself but not looking forward to it as had a fair few beers last night:eek:

Just off to do that myself, but for some reason I was thinking it was 2.5k so was just going to do it and the "LeCheille" Cooper test as one in the same. I knew I shouldn't have been reading here first before going out. Guess I'll have to do an extra couple of laps then to get the miles in as well now.

The Boards AC Bi-weekly speed sessions

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