The Boards AC Bi-weekly speed sessions

Woddle

Ok now that I have a bit of race experience, I'm now asking myself two questions How can I run faster and how good can I be. After getting some great advice from both racing flat and stupid private I'm now going to focus on the shorter distances and in paticular speed sessions. I hope to do this with the aid of Alberto Salazar and Pete Pfitzinger (recently bought their books).
Now the other stuff, I have completed a level 1 athletics Ireland coaching course and to meet the criteria for my level 2 I need to get some coaching experience.
Now the objective of this thread is to follow a 12 week schedule starting on the 27th of April and that will see me peak for the adidas 5 mile and set a pb. I would like to invite other runners to join me in doing our bi weekly speed sessions either physically or virtually and logging how we got on here. The sessions will be set in advance, distance, pace, recovery and all that. This thread will cater for all levels and all sessions will be tailored made to suit ones ability.
The first session will be vo2 max based and the other will be lactate threshold based.

The Vo2 sessions will involve the likes of
6x800 @5k pace
5x600 @5k pace
5x3min hills
5x1200 @goal pace
etc

The Lactate threshold sessions will include
2x2mile
4 mile tempo
2.5 mile time trials

Now I'm hoping the likes of Figs, christeb, stmochtas, shels4ever (when Belfast is over), rainbow kirby, mariec and everyone else will see this thread as a motivator to get the speed sessions in and contribute. So if your interested let me know. Amadeus will also be advising on this thread and all the other more knowledgable coaches/runners are welcome to have an input.
So the main goal is to get 12 weeks of solid speed based training in, to have us race fit for the summer and hopefully setting pbs.

Also would love to hear what sessions other club guys are doing such as Sungod in Waterford and Showry in West Waterford.

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

Ok now that I have a bit of race experience, I'm now asking myself two questions How can I run faster and how good can I be. After getting some great advice from both racing flat and stupid private I'm now going to focus on the shorter distances and in paticular speed sessions. I hope to do this with the aid of Alberto Salazar and Pete Pfitzinger (recently bought their books).
Now the other stuff, I have completed a level 1 athletics Ireland coaching course and to meet the criteria for my level 2 I need to get some coaching experience.
Now the objective of this thread is to follow a 12 week schedule starting on the 27th of April and that will see me peak for the adidas 5 mile and set a pb. I would like to invite other runners to join me in doing our bi weekly speed sessions either physically or virtually and logging how we got on here. The sessions will be set in advance, distance, pace, recovery and all that. This thread will cater for all levels and all sessions will be tailored made to suit ones ability.
The first session will be vo2 max based and the other will be lactate threshold based.

The Vo2 sessions will involve the likes of
6x800 @5k pace
5x600 @5k pace
5x3min hills
5x1200 @goal pace
etc

The Lactate threshold sessions will include
2x2mile
4 mile tempo
2.5 mile time trials

Now I'm hoping the likes of Figs, christeb, stmochtas, shels4ever (when Belfast is over), rainbow kirby, mariec and everyone else will see this thread as a motivator to get the speed sessions in and contribute. So if your interested let me know. Amadeus will also be advising on this thread and all the other more knowledgable coaches/runners are welcome to have an input.
So the main goal is to get 12 weeks of solid speed based training in, to have us race fit for the summer and hopefully setting pbs.

Also would love to hear what sessions other club guys are doing such as Sungod in Waterford and Showry in West Waterford.

Good idea there, i've almost finished my training plan already for the summer once this marathon is out of the way.
I'll prob be looking at mixing up some sessions ie sets of 400's , mixed session of 400 and 600's .
Will prob target a 33 5 mile ofr late summer and if I do get close to that i'd be over the moon. Will post my plan once i'm happy with it and i've decided on what races to run.

911sc

Woddle wrote: »

I would like to invite other runners to join me in doing our bi weekly speed sessions either physically.

Where are you doing that?

showry

Good idea Woddle,
I've been lax with my speed sessions since Chrimbo and I'm paying the price for it now.
I generally do them on my own at the track in Waterford city so it'd be nice to have a bit of motivation.
I use http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/paces.php to get sessions and target paces.

Woddle

911sc wrote: »

Where are you doing that?

Most weekday mornings I'm free from 9am till 11am so I could be quite flexible with meeting people. I have found a great 500 meter ish flat,circular, tarmac route in Marley park, so feel free to contact me and make arrangements and that goes for everyone, the more the merrier for speed sessions. Like showry I normally did them on my own but I would welcome the company and am sure it will improve my session, pushing each other harder.

geld

Woddle wrote: »

Most weekday mornings I'm free from 9am till 11am so I could be quite flexible with meeting people. I have found a great 500 meter ish flat,circular, tarmac route in Marley park,

Woodle, where abouts in Marley is that route? Won't be able to join you but might use it myself on other times. - Tks

rainbow kirby

This interests me greatly - I've a scheduled speed session in my half-marathon training program which I'm crap at motivating myself to do, so it'd be nice to get this in. I'd have more free time for it after 7 May, I'm handing in my final year project then.

5k pace for me is about 8.30/mile, so it'd be an easy run for most people here!

figs

Named and shamed... Speed sessions are something I've just never done.

And I have no excuse. I live less than 200m from a track. I think this is a kick in the ass I needed. Count me in.

ecoli

Great idea Woddle as i am not in my best of shape at moment i wanna get back training and would be interested in getting in on these sessions atleast at first and see where we go from there

Woddle

geld wrote: »

Woodle, where abouts in Marley is that route? Won't be able to join you but might use it myself on other times. - Tks

Come in the way of the main car park and walk over to the main house (car park directly behind you), then just left of the house (car park still directly behind you) and run on the tarmac (course started) run towards the little tea/ice cream shop and follow the tarmac path around anti clockwise and over to the duck pond and then heading back towards the main house. Elevation changes of around 7ft over the course. distance wise I'll measure it more accuratelynext time but a great route and sheltered aswell.

robinph

figs wrote: »

Speed sessions are something I've just never done.

Same here, but I'm intrigued to give it a go and see what I really should be doing other than my usual method of following the "just go and run" type training plan.

Woddle

This is great interest so far, I would also be up for the odd evening at a track. And feel free to make arrangements with other users that live close to you but remember you can still take part even if you prefer doing them on your own. As this thread is where all the info and feedback will take place.
If this thread proves popular (and its looking that way) we might have it as a sticky in the training logs.
I should probably add that I plan to do weekly updates on the Boards AC blogspot and anyone who hasn't seen the singlet or who are questioning my manly legs have a look here http://boardsac.blogspot.com/

lecheile

Woddle wrote: »

This is great interest so far, I would also be up for the odd evening at a track. And feel free to make arrangements with other users that live close to you but remember you can still take part even if you prefer doing them on your own. As this thread is where all the info and feedback will take place.
If this thread proves popular (and its looking that way) we might have it as a sticky in the training logs.
I should probably add that I plan to do weekly updates on the Boards AC blogspot and anyone who hasn't seen the singlet or who are questioning my manly legs have a look here http://boardsac.blogspot.com/

Great idea Woddle - and given that most involved in the thread have expressed interest in Copper test - why not meet and complete that as your first session

Woddle

lecheile wrote: »

Great idea Woddle - and given that most involved in the thread have expressed interest in Copper test - why not meet and complete that as your first session

Yep sounds like a plan, I plan on doing mine Sunday/Monday (I promise) as part of a 2.5 mile time trial just to see where I am and where I want to go, now this option might not suit everyone so between all of us we can come up with our first session for next week and alternatives if needed. So for those who have not completed the cooper test why not join me and get out on Sunday/Monday for a time trial and just clock your distance after 12 mins but continue till you reach the 2.5 miles.

jlang

I'll give it a go (I think). I've never felt comfortable pushing the speed too much except in a race situation so up to now the closest to a structured session I've done has been to irregularly set off faster than usual on one of my regular routes. 5 runs a week so far this year has clearly been beneficial but now that my marathon's out of the way I'm going to try for a better balance with my swimming/biking. My 5k and 10k times from late last year are looking soft at 22:28 and 45:15 so I'm confident I could beat them now but I'd like to see what I could do if I manage the time I have for running.

Just to be clear, does bi-weekly mean twice a week or once every two weeks?

Woddle

jlang wrote: »

I'll give it a go (I think). I've never felt comfortable pushing the speed too much except in a race situation so up to now the closest to a structured session I've done has been to irregularly set off faster than usual on one of my regular routes. 5 runs a week so far this year has clearly been beneficial but now that my marathon's out of the way I'm going to try for a better balance with my swimming/biking. My 5k and 10k times from late last year are looking soft at 22:28 and 45:15 so I'm confident I could beat them now but I'd like to see what I could do if I manage the time I have for running.

Just to be clear, does bi-weekly mean twice a week or once every two weeks?

Roughly 2 a week but it will depend on your level of course so for you I expect 2 a week but Pfitzinger does drop the LT workouts every second week. So for example
Week 1 - Vo2 max
week 2 - Vo2 max and LT
week 3 - Vo2 max
but on the dropped weeks he does have you add in a few stides on an easy run.

--amadeus--

Great idea and brilliant that it's getting good support. I don't think I'll make the 5 miler but I'm going to run teh Clare 10k and will be doing these sessions as part of that training.

BeepBeep67

Here's what I'll be taking my group through in a lead up to 3k - 10k races in August. I might try and join one of your sessions in Marley also.
Anyone on here is welcome to join if Marley does not suit.

MCOS

Cool, I'll watch this thread for tips. Need to get into speed stuff myself... so reporting myself to the track for 6.30am tomorrow morning for 5-6 1k reps, 2 mins walk/jog rest :cool:

christeb

yeah it's not something I've done formally, closest thing to it would be sprints with the football team. Only a few weeks to go til the season is over, so will be adding them in then. TBH anything southside doesn't suit me unfortunately...
So Phoenix Park or St. Anne's in Raheny would be great if anyone was near there, others I may just latch onto the Shamrocks who do speed work on Wed / Sat...

new2triathlon

Hi I would be very interested in doing speed work either on Monday or Tuesday AM in Marley park. I'm sending you a PM!

shels4ever

I was actually thinking about this idea again last night. On the issue with locations maybe we can move some sessions around.
I was thinking of something like

1. North Dublin(Malahide castle maybe)
2. South (Marley)
3. Pheonix park

If we can get number maybe we can have a session in each of the above, Pheonix for long runs then session in the other two. It will depend on numbers and groups.

If we have enough people in around the same ability. I'd like to get a training group going with one eye on the Dublin Novice in October .

Woddle

Yep I would be somewhat flexible in moving location occasionally but I think the first thing is to set a session out and then do it, if that means doing it on your own or making arrangements great but for some of us we have our routine and travelling might not suit. So I want this thread to be about supporting the speed sessions.
We seem to have a few floating around the Marlay area which is great, if we have a another group close to phoenix park, theres nothing stopping us from having multi groups, I measured the lap in marlay today and its 894 meters, with obvious markers around, I brought my camera aswell, so will throw up a picture shortly.
The interest is great.

nerraw1111

Count me in. Will have to be virtually. Long sessions in the Phoenix Park would suit me.

Great idea.

uglyjohn

i would love to get involved with this but to be honest it'll probably be virtual and half arsed, i'll give it a crack though.

im based in blackrock so i could make it up to marley park or even pheonix park for the odd session but not regurarly.

stmochtas

Great idea Woddle. I wont get too excited until I get my foot back in action. But once I am back any sessions I can make I would.

Woddle

894 meter loop, the main marlay house is just to the right, there are lots of obvious markers, so the loop can easily be marked for 100m - 800m



House is to the right and car park to the left, this picture is to highlight what pat you start on

Running Bing

Good idea for a thread Woddle. With all the talk of marathon training the faster stuff tends to get overlooked:D


I alternate between three faster and two faster sessions a week so it usually goes:

Week A: Reps (i.e. shorter intervals), intervals, tempo (in the form of 1000m cruise intervals at tempo pace)

Week B: Reps, tempo (standard 20 or 40 minute tempo run. I also include a few quick reps at the end of the tempo run).

Started this about 6 weeks ago and its going well so far. I describe all my workouts in my log so if anybody is interested they can check there. I would'nt mind a bit of company on my sessions and Id be willing to travel to Irishtown stadium or Tallaght stadium for a bit of track work or Marlay/Phoenix for longer runs (I prefer to do my reps/intervals on a track:o).

I do most of my fast workouts on the gravel track in Sundrive park. Schedule is a bit hectic over the next 6 weeks so Im fitting runs in when I can but Ill have a lot more time during the summer:D

jlang

I'll plan to go to the Phoenix Park and I can try to coordinate with others to meet there but depending on when I do it the straight flat road behind where I live is more likely.

runforrest

hi woddle would love to join thread trying to get a bit of pace back up after slow slog of ultra in connemarathon.Do i do a 2.5 mile time trial as a baseline and do two weekly sessions?:)

Woddle

runforrest wrote: »

hi woddle would love to join thread trying to get a bit of pace back up after slow slog of ultra in connemarathon.Do i do a 2.5 mile time trial as a baseline and do two weekly sessions?:)

Hi runforestrun, I'll post the sessions for next week up on Friday and there will be an option given and one of these options will be a 2.5 mile time trial and it really is just to find out where your at (those who have already completed the cooper test do not need to do this,those who havn't can incorporate the cooper test into the 2.5 mile time trial).
On the Pfitzinger schedule after 6 weeks of speed training he has a 2.5 mile time trial so I think doing one at the start will add to confidence levels when you see the improvement but there will be alternatives to the time trial. I've started Alberto Salazars book and its a great read and although similar to Pfitzinger he does offer alternative sessions. Can't wait for the fun to begin.

Woddle

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Here's what I'll be taking my group through in a lead up to 3k - 10k races in August. I might try and join one of your sessions in Marley also.
Anyone on here is welcome to join if Marley does not suit.

Thanks very much BeepBeep, very nice of you to give us a glimpse into an established clubs routine. There will be plenty of alternatives for people, as long as we're tyring to make the same desired changes in our bodies I think its great to offer a wide range. I'm just looking at Tuesday the 16/6 and am wondering would this race be open to invitation aswell as your club runners. I would love to give 1500 a go.

The attachment from beepbeep is back on page 2 it didn't transfer in the quote

Running Bing

Woddle wrote: »

I'm just looking at Tuesday the 16/6 and am wondering would this race be open to invitation aswell as your club runners. I would love to give 1500 a go.

Was thinking the same thing. That race would suit me down to the ground;)

BeepBeep67

Woddle wrote: »

I'm just looking at Tuesday the 16/6 and am wondering would this race be open to invitation aswell as your club runners. I would love to give 1500 a go.

+ Babybing (haven't figured out how to do multiple quotes)

This is an interesting event - my idea about 12yrs ago I think. We invite a number of clubs from Nth Wicklow and Sth Dublin (Inbhear Dee, Greystones, Roundwood, Parnell, DSD & Blackrock) mainly juvs U/9 to U/19 with each final gaining points towards a team trophy, plus a medley relay at the end (unique event I think) each age group does a leg and the team must have 2 females (50m, 100m, 150m 300m, 600m, 900m - it's a 300m grass track) which the points count as double and there is a trophy for this also. Still with me
Back to your question we have some senior races 100m and 1500m and it is open just pay €2 on the night and try not to get lapped by a hot shot Junior.

It is in Presentation Col. in Bray - actually Woddle would be an ideal event for Racepix, the original concept for the event was to give an extra track & field event for Juvs that were not making it past County Championships - we get about 200 on the night!

Seres

woddle
would be interested in giving this a go as a virtual participant , do all of my training alone ,would be nice to have some sort of virtual grp to work with, just a couple of things , might not do it for full 12weeks ,starting tri training soon and i am not as flexible as other people ,all speed sessions will need to be done during the week for me , so i hope that i dont have to do them on the assigned days

Woddle

Seres wrote: »

woddle
would be interested in giving this a go as a virtual participant , do all of my training alone ,would be nice to have some sort of virtual grp to work with, just a couple of things , might not do it for full 12weeks ,starting tri training soon and i am not as flexible as other people ,all speed sessions will need to be done during the week for me , so i hope that i dont have to do them on the assigned days

No probs seres, no there will be no set days but it would be nice to try and get as many of the sessions done before you go into tri mode. So if I do mine on a Monday and Thursday, there is no problem with you doing yours Tuesday/Friday. Back to back hard days is a no no and if you miss a session don't worry, just let it go, there is to be no playing catch up and finally just to try and do as close to a 100% of whatever session is laid out. Just an example, the session is 5x600 with maybe 90 seconds recovery, if you can only do 3 or 4 so be it but the aim of the 12 weeks is to get you faster and to complete as much of the planned program that your life circumstances will allow.

Woddle

The details for next weeks speed sessions are up here http://boardsac.blogspot.com/ have a look and if you have any queries post them here and not on the blogspot.

nerraw1111

Cheers Woddle, that's fantastic.

Will do the 2.5 time trial and the 100 metre reps/

christeb

Great post Wod. I'll do the Cooper test this weekend hopefully which will be the start of a long rocky road to speediness!

belcarra

Hey Woddle,

Great idea, can you include me as a participant please?

Thanks.

new2triathlon

Hi Woddle,

Thanks for posting up the sessions. I definetly want to sign up!

So does anyone want to meet in Marley park regularily on Monday/Tuesday morning (must be finished by 11.15!) to do session one?

All the best

New2Triathlon

Woddle

new2triathlon wrote: »

Hi Woddle,

Thanks for posting up the sessions. I definetly want to sign up!

So does anyone want to meet in Marley park regularily on Monday/Tuesday morning (must be finished by 11.15!) to do session one?

All the best

New2Triathlon

I'll be doing most of my speed work in Marley and we can def meet up. I'm taking the time trial choice myself and I'm doing it on Sunday as I have a mid week race but the week after if that suits and we'll try sign you up to Boards AC (remembers to do sticky):D

Seres

woodle
you mention that the first session 600m/800m is to improve VO2max , can you do that , i thought is was only LT that you could increase ?
whats the point of the 600m recovery between reps , can i change this to a time recovery ?
for session 2 , the 8-12 *100ms , will this benefit me as i am training for 10K ?
session 2 , what exactly do you mean by running form and leg turnover ( no of strides per 100m) ?
sorry for all the queries its just that i have the womens mini marathon in a couple of weeks and want to do the best sessions at the moment to improve my time ?

figs

"6x800m @ 5k race pace, the recovery of which should be 600m"

Gulp!

Just checking I'm getting this, is that 600m between each 800m lap? 7800m in total? Plus warm-up / down, etc...

Woddle

Seres wrote: »

woodle
you mention that the first session 600m/800m is to improve VO2max , can you do that , i thought is was only LT that you could increase ?
whats the point of the 600m recovery between reps , can i change this to a time recovery ?
for session 2 , the 8-12 *100ms , will this benefit me as i am training for 10K ?
session 2 , what exactly do you mean by running form and leg turnover ( no of strides per 100m) ?
sorry for all the queries its just that i have the womens mini marathon in a couple of weeks and want to do the best sessions at the moment to improve my time ?

Hi Seres I'm hoping Amadeus might come along and explain this better but yes you can improve your vo2 max, I'll take a paragraph from Salazars book that will tell you why a 10k runner should be aiming to improve vo2 max
Even small changes in vo2max though translate into significant gains in speed . All other things being equal a 5% gain in vo2max is equivalent to a 5% speedup, the difference between a 50 minute 10k and a 47:30.
Yes you can change this to a time recovery, I having a garmin just find distance easier and in the Salazar book he has a great table for recoveries for all interval disatances. In the Pfitzinger/Douglas book he reckons a recovery of 50-90% of the time it took you to complete the interval. So maybe lean more towards caution and start close to the 90% and then try and shorten your recoveries to what suits you best.
Regarding session 2, Pfitzinger says it is not essential for 8k-10k runners but that it is good for your finishing speed and improving your basic speed. These sessions don't take long and there great for taking the time while running very fast to concentrate on how your body is moving and make it more fluent and economical. Leg turnover is exactly that. I can't remember the exact rate, I'm nearly sure you should be aiming for 180 strides per minute(90 each leg), I think I'm at 165 and it is sth I'm trying to improve. I am open to correction on any of the above as this is a learning curve for me too. I have invited a few people through pms to have a say on this thread and make sure that we're on track.
Also to let you know, week 2 will have a specific session for lactate threshold. What date is your race.

Woddle

figs wrote: »

"6x800m @ 5k race pace, the recovery of which should be 600m"

Gulp!

Just checking I'm getting this, is that 600m between each 800m lap? 7800m in total? Plus warm-up / down, etc...

It sure is Figs but the reason I gave a few choices was to accomadate runners who are working of lower milage or tight time constraints, so you could always check out the 600m intervals. But for you if you can fit in the 800s you should as your flying and they'll stand to you and 6x800 can be intimidating so theres always 4x800. The main thing is that your getting the speed work in and that its not been neglected.

Seres

hey woddle
thanks for the quick reply , main race on 1st June , after that will be focusing more on tri training
just one more thing re session 1 , i am not really sure what my 5k race speed is , will i just go at a pace thats comfortable or can you give me a time i should be aiming for, for each rep if my target 10k time is 42min?
really havent a clue how fast i should run the 100m either

figs

Tks Woddle. Best get some sleep then... planning doing this first thing in the morning.

Distance/time element not a problem, just reckon I'll be pushing hard, and will really feel it after the first two few laps!

Woddle

figs wrote: »

Tks Woddle. Best get some sleep then... planning doing this first thing in the morning.

Distance/time element not a problem, just reckon I'll be pushing hard, and will really feel it after the first two few laps!

Just remember Figs you had a tough race on Wednesday and your muscles may not have forgiven you yet, so caution is advised, its more about building foundations, so maybe relax the pace a bit more than what you normally would, only a suggestio but glad to hear your starting

Woddle

Seres wrote: »

hey woddle
thanks for the quick reply , main race on 1st June , after that will be focusing more on tri training
just one more thing re session 1 , i am not really sure what my 5k race speed is , will i just go at a pace thats comfortable or can you give me a time i should be aiming for, for each rep if my target 10k time is 42min?
really havent a clue how fast i should run the 100m either

Hi Seres the 100s are to be quick but def not an all out sprint, trial and error and remember once your form is gone and your running with your arms all over the place and the head bobbing call it a day. Strong, fast and controlled is what they should be.
Regarding pace for the 800s, I think you should start by aiming for 3:30 but you probably should be doing them at 3:15 but start slower and again it will be trial and error but you should set out exactly how many reps you want to do before the session and stick to it, if you can't complete set target it means you ran them too fast and you'll know for next time.
If 600s maybe start at 2:40 and see how it feels and try aim for 2:25 if the 2:40 is too slow. The reasons I have these figures is because 42 is roughly my current 10k time. So change to how you feel. Best of luck

Seres

thanks , will let you know how i get on during the week re session 1
sorry just one unrelated question , have 10k monday week, whats the best way to lay out next weeks training so my training remains as undisturbed as possible ?