Web Design Software???

Pablod · 15-04-2009 8:58am #1

Hi Everyone,

I am new to Web Design and want to look into designing a standard website for our company.

Just wondering what do you think is the best software to use for this?

I have a full copy of MS Frontpage 2003 and just yesterday started going through MS Office Online Tutorials - seems ok
(Once you know how and what you want on your site and design etc....)

Has anyone else has used FrontPage or is there are simpler versions for beginners out there. (I see some sites offer "Free Design Tools" when you take out an account for hosting but these are very basic and limited)

Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.
Cheers

forbairt · 15-04-2009 9:15am

I'd probably say avoid frontpage like the plague ...

That said I've not gone near it in years and years just remembering the bloat ... does it still use font tags ?

Dreamweaver is the industry standard in terms of commercial software

There are various free software packs out there as well

do you need a what you see is what you get style editor or are you happy to get down to the code ?

STBR · 15-04-2009 7:47pm

Dreamweaver CS4.

It's what I used where I started. [Although I only started a month or two ago.]

And judging by the standard of anything I've seen that's made with FrontPage... Do you know there the "Uninstall Programs" list is?

No matter if you're going to use it for a WYSIWYG Editor, or for coding, or for both, it's still the best.

I use it for coding HTML/XHTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, everything.

CoNfOuNd · 15-04-2009 8:19pm

MS Frontpage was discontinued in 2006. It was replaced by MS Expression, but I doubt it's any better.

Use Dreamweaver or Notepad

STBR · 15-04-2009 8:26pm

In regards to the previous post.

If you're looking for free software for coding, use Notepad++.

CuLT · 15-04-2009 10:11pm

SirDarren wrote: »

In regards to the previous post.

If you're looking for free software for coding, use Notepad++.

Notepad++ is solid stuff. Started using it about two years ago and never looked back.

Pablod · 15-04-2009 10:47pm

Thanks for the replies guys,
Not looking for Free Software - Just looking for everyones opinion on what is the best one to use

Have to say I sat through a good few online tutorials today on MS Office online very good .. learnt a lot on Frontpage

So was able to start designing the home page of the website today

Just need to get my head around the coding & tags etc..
(Any advice on that would also be helpfull)

Thanks Again

Liam Byrne · 16-04-2009 12:02am

Pablod wrote: »

Just looking for everyones opinion on what is the best one to use

Have to say I sat through a good few online tutorials today on MS Office online very good .. learnt a lot on Frontpage

OK, so you're obviously not on for taking everyone's opinion into account....

If you use Frontpage 2003 you're going to have sites that (a) look crap in different browsers and resolutions (b) use tables instead of proper CSS markup for layout and (c) allows you to use full-res images on websites. Even the 2003 version of Dreamweaver would be dodgy by now, and that was a million miles ahead of Frontpage from day one.

Whatever about playing with it, I DEFINITELY wouldn't use it to create a company website.

Your choice, but you've been warned so make your own decision.

Best of luck (you'll probably need it)

Pablod · 16-04-2009 10:03am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK, so you're obviously not on for taking everyone's opinion into account....

If you use Frontpage 2003 you're going to have sites that (a) look crap in different browsers and resolutions (b) use tables instead of proper CSS markup for layout and (c) allows you to use full-res images on websites. Even the 2003 version of Dreamweaver would be dodgy by now, and that was a million miles ahead of Frontpage from day one.

Whatever about playing with it, I DEFINITELY wouldn't use it to create a company website.

Your choice, but you've been warned so make your own decision.

Best of luck (you'll probably need it)

Thanks for the Reply Liam,

Yes, I am taking everyone opinion into account.
In fact since I posted this thread a few days ago I have read a lot of different opinions and what people reccoment and I also read somewhere that Frontpage has been phased out and I am looking at an alternative..

What would you reccomend yourself for both
a) software to use for Site Design -
b) is there a specific course you would reccomend for starting in web design.

(And yes your right I will need all the help & Luck I can get :rolleyes:)

Thanks
Paul

pwd · 16-04-2009 10:21am

w3schools have good tutorials for html css etc.
Frontpage is very bad yes, but I think expression is a lot better. Expression or Dreamweaver would be the choices I think.

ScumLord · 16-04-2009 11:37am

I used to use frontpage but it seems completely redundant at this stage. If was never really any good at HTML and even though I'm no expert I still had to go back and redo code by hand. If it can't handle CSS then there's no point in using it at all.

I'm trying to find a good css editor, hopefully one that will do most the work for me I'm really hating the step backwards when it comes to being able to design websites visually.

What is a good css editor? I'll be working mostly with Joomla websites. I have just downloaded csstools and would be willing to spend up to around €50. So no dreamweaver at this stage, I might be able to justify the price further down the line.

mewso · 16-04-2009 12:06pm

Visual Web Developer. Expressions is as good but not free.

Pablod · 16-04-2009 1:03pm

Excellent - one of my colleagues has just dropped a Microsoft Disc on my desk
MS Expression Web (Release Version I think from 2007)
And it covers CSS
So, going to have a bash with this and see what happens
If its not going to do the job -
i'll have to splash out on Dreamweaver - (yikes thats pricey :eek:)

mewso · 16-04-2009 1:07pm

Pablod wrote: »

Excellent - one of my colleagues has just dropped a Microsoft Disc on my desk
MS Expression Web (Release Version I think from 2007)
And it covers CSS
So, going to have a bash with this and see what happens
If its not going to do the job -
i'll have to splash out on Dreamweaver - (yikes thats pricey :eek:)

Hope he dropped a user license with it

Anyway expression is good, probably not far off dreamweaver.

kevteljeur · 16-04-2009 1:25pm

This is going to sound a little dry, but I build websites for a living...

1) Define your audience. Who they are, what they use to browse the web (hardware and software), the hosting environment and site technology, what they want from your site, what your site needs to have and to communicate to that audience, as constrained by the first 3 items.

2) Using the information from 1, design the site. Pen and paper first, then wireframes, then colour designs.

3) When the design is signed off, design the code. Then code the common elements. Then gradually the more specific elements.

Start with WAI-compliant static HTML mark-up, and core CSS and JS elements. The mark-up and content should make sense and be completely readable without the CSS and JS, in all browsers. With CSS and JS, it should be readable in all browsers, even if it doesn't look good. With CSS and JS it should be perfect in your target browser profile. Not similar, but exactly the same. This is generally known as the browser matrix; you define how the site should be in all the browsers. It should be perfect in IE 6, IE 7, IE 8, Firefox 1.5 and up, Safari 2 and up, Google Chrome and Opera 8 and up.

Believe it or not, 'Getting it right' is worth as much for your Google ranking as any amount of fiddling about with search engine submissions or paying people to 'get the site up in Google'. It's easy to get right. Get it right, or pay someone to get it right.

If you follow all that, you can't go wrong. Few people do follow all that, and that is why there are still many hideous sites that don't work in modern browsers. Excuse my bitterness.

I'd give more detail, but then I'd have to kill you. Or, you could hire me. But better for the web if everyone just got it right...

Pablod · 16-04-2009 2:10pm

musician wrote: »

Hope he dropped a user license with it Anyway expression is good, probably not far off dreamweaver.

Oh Yes Fully Licensed (LEGAL) copy of Expression

Pixelcraft · 16-04-2009 2:13pm

Pablob, there has been plenty of suggestions here, but just remember software won't be a replacement for education and knowing what you are doing, they are merely tools.

Pablod · 16-04-2009 2:23pm

kevteljeur wrote: »

This is going to sound a little dry, but I build websites for a living...

1) Define your audience. Who they are, what they use to browse the web (hardware and software), the hosting environment and site technology, what they want from your site, what your site needs to have and to communicate to that audience, as constrained by the first 3 items.

2) Using the information from 1, design the site. Pen and paper first, then wireframes, then colour designs.

3) When the design is signed off, design the code. Then code the common elements. Then gradually the more specific elements.

Start with WAI-compliant static HTML mark-up, and core CSS and JS elements. The mark-up and content should make sense and be completely readable without the CSS and JS, in all browsers. With CSS and JS, it should be readable in all browsers, even if it doesn't look good. With CSS and JS it should be perfect in your target browser profile. Not similar, but exactly the same. This is generally known as the browser matrix; you define how the site should be in all the browsers. It should be perfect in IE 6, IE 7, IE 8, Firefox 1.5 and up, Safari 2 and up, Google Chrome and Opera 8 and up.

Believe it or not, 'Getting it right' is worth as much for your Google ranking as any amount of fiddling about with search engine submissions or paying people to 'get the site up in Google'. It's easy to get right. Get it right, or pay someone to get it right.

If you follow all that, you can't go wrong. Few people do follow all that, and that is why there are still many hideous sites that don't work in modern browsers. Excuse my bitterness. I'd give more detail, but then I'd have to kill you. Or, you could hire me. But better for the web if everyone just got it right...

Thanks for the Info Kev good pointers there.

Have already gone through Step 1 - Information and Goal
and working through Step 2 Design/Plan on Paper at the moment.

Just a quick question....noticed you mentioned the Search with Google etc.
Could you give a quick background on that please?

:D:D

I know there are Key words tags etc
Thanks a mil

Pablod · 16-04-2009 2:24pm

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Pablob, there has been plenty of suggestions here, but just remember software won't be a replacement for education and knowing what you are doing, they are merely tools.

Well said Pixel, totally agree with you
I'm am looking into training at the moment - just want to get experience and bit of knowledge thanks

kevteljeur · 16-04-2009 3:58pm

Pablod wrote: »

Thanks for the Info Kev good pointers there.

Have already gone through Step 1 - Information and Goal
and working through Step 2 Design/Plan on Paper at the moment.

Just a quick question....noticed you mentioned the Search with Google etc.
Could you give a quick background on that please? :D:D

I know there are Key words tags etc
Thanks a mil

Just code the site correctly is what I meant - there is the correct use keywords and the like, but best just to read it up. There are no clever tricks which magically help, Google just respects a well-built site.

Chardee MacDennis · 17-04-2009 10:57am

i got Espresso for the mac a couple of weeks back, have to say i am very impressed with it as an editor - blows Dreamweaver away (which is what i had been using for the last 3/4 years)...

not built for WYSIWYG though...

forbairt · 17-04-2009 11:04am

BastardPrince wrote: »

i got Espresso for the mac a couple of weeks back, have to say i am very impressed with it as an editor - blows Dreamweaver away (which is what i had been using for the last 3/4 years)...

not built for WYSIWYG though...

You'll probably find Coda a lot better (integrated SVN / more plugins) but espresso was cheap and cheerful and I'm using it now as well (part of macheist bundle)

Eoin · 17-04-2009 1:44pm

If this is for your corporate website and you're completely new to it, I'd go one further and say don't download anything and have a professional do it. There's a reason why people do this full time.

STBR · 17-04-2009 5:17pm

BastardPrince wrote: »

i got Espresso for the mac a couple of weeks back, have to say i am very impressed with it as an editor - blows Dreamweaver away (which is what i had been using for the last 3/4 years)...

not built for WYSIWYG though...

I can't imagine anything blowing Dreamweaver away.

What version of Dreamweaver were you using?

mikkimak · 20-04-2009 3:22pm

Make life easier for yourself by using a Content Management system like a PixelPress V3 from Harvard and save the hassle of needing an IT person edit everything for you. We use 2.12 for our online presence, selling gifts and it works a treat. You can look at our site, but I cannot advertise here so e-mail me and I will send you the link. We edit the site every day with new offers for customers and the warehouse deletes or suspends any out of stocks. The sales team uses the site to stay up to speed with availability and lee times. We are considering an upgrade to V3 or V4 but to be honest V2.12 works well. Use Googles Adwords to get seen in th eshort term and use Googles Analytics to manage your keywords and therefore long term rankings. It is an ongoing process which takes up quite a bit of time and as previously advised read up on it to stay up to speed.

Pablod · 20-04-2009 4:29pm

mikkimak wrote: »

Make life easier for yourself by using a Content Management system like a PixelPress V3 from Harvard and save the hassle of needing an IT person edit everything for you. We use 2.12 for our online presence, selling gifts and it works a treat. You can look at our site, but I cannot advertise here so e-mail me and I will send you the link. We edit the site every day with new offers for customers and the warehouse deletes or suspends any out of stocks. The sales team uses the site to stay up to speed with availability and lee times. We are considering an upgrade to V3 or V4 but to be honest V2.12 works well. Use Googles Adwords to get seen in th eshort term and use Googles Analytics to manage your keywords and therefore long term rankings. It is an ongoing process which takes up quite a bit of time and as previously advised read up on it to stay up to speed.

Excellent - thanks for the tips Mikki

Just send you a PM - wouldn't mind seeing your site
Thanks again

Edited - was unable to send PM - but you can send PM to me that would be great, cheers.

8track · 23-04-2009 1:41pm

Is there any free or inexpensive software good for developing a directory website, or does one really need to use Dreamweaver? The directory would include names, addresses, phone numbers etc. in searchable categories. Ideally it would allow users to submit/edit their own details. I have never done any web design, but I am prepared to learn a lot. I am an above average user of standard apps like Word, Excel, email etc. but not an expert. I am prepared to tackle coding, but wysiwyg may be wiser.

Also, any recommendations on good web development online courses or books would be welcome. I'm a bit far from major urban/educational centres.

Thanks very much.

Pixelcraft · 23-04-2009 2:07pm

that's not software you need, that's a web developer. There may be some off the shelf solutions out there though imo it would still need some knowledge to implement well.

8track · 23-04-2009 2:19pm

Pixelcraft wrote: »

that's not software you need, that's a web developer. There may be some off the shelf solutions out there though imo it would still need some knowledge to implement well.

Point taken, Pixelcraft. Paying a developer would be my preference, but lack of budget not allowing that - maybe in the future. I am prepared to try to get the knowledge in the meantime.

NickNolte · 23-04-2009 2:39pm

I'm not a big fan of Dreamweaver (or any WYSIWYG editor). They can be good for improving workflow and stuff I suppose but there's no substitute for clean, neat, carefully crafted hand-coded mark-up. Coda FTW.

8track · 23-04-2009 3:28pm

NickNolte wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of Dreamweaver (or any WYSIWYG editor). They can be good for improving workflow and stuff I suppose but there's no substitute for clean, neat, carefully crafted hand-coded mark-up. Coda FTW.

Thanks NickNolte but I would need Windows software. I think Coda is for Mac.

Web Design Software???

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