Web Design Software???

Pablod

Hi Everyone,

I am new to Web Design and want to look into designing a standard website for our company.

Just wondering what do you think is the best software to use for this?

I have a full copy of MS Frontpage 2003 and just yesterday started going through MS Office Online Tutorials - seems ok
(Once you know how and what you want on your site and design etc....)

Has anyone else has used FrontPage or is there are simpler versions for beginners out there. (I see some sites offer "Free Design Tools" when you take out an account for hosting but these are very basic and limited)

Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated.
Cheers

forbairt

I'd probably say avoid frontpage like the plague ...

That said I've not gone near it in years and years just remembering the bloat ... does it still use font tags ?

Dreamweaver is the industry standard in terms of commercial software

There are various free software packs out there as well

do you need a what you see is what you get style editor or are you happy to get down to the code ?

STBR

Dreamweaver CS4.

It's what I used where I started. [Although I only started a month or two ago.]

And judging by the standard of anything I've seen that's made with FrontPage... Do you know there the "Uninstall Programs" list is?

No matter if you're going to use it for a WYSIWYG Editor, or for coding, or for both, it's still the best.

I use it for coding HTML/XHTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, everything.

CoNfOuNd

MS Frontpage was discontinued in 2006. It was replaced by MS Expression, but I doubt it's any better.

Use Dreamweaver or Notepad

STBR

In regards to the previous post.

If you're looking for free software for coding, use Notepad++.

CuLT

SirDarren wrote: »

In regards to the previous post.

If you're looking for free software for coding, use Notepad++.

Notepad++ is solid stuff. Started using it about two years ago and never looked back.

Pablod

Thanks for the replies guys,
Not looking for Free Software - Just looking for everyones opinion on what is the best one to use

Have to say I sat through a good few online tutorials today on MS Office online very good .. learnt a lot on Frontpage

So was able to start designing the home page of the website today
Just need to get my head around the coding & tags etc..
(Any advice on that would also be helpfull)

Thanks Again

Liam Byrne

Pablod wrote: »

Just looking for everyones opinion on what is the best one to use

Have to say I sat through a good few online tutorials today on MS Office online very good .. learnt a lot on Frontpage

OK, so you're obviously not on for taking everyone's opinion into account....

If you use Frontpage 2003 you're going to have sites that (a) look crap in different browsers and resolutions (b) use tables instead of proper CSS markup for layout and (c) allows you to use full-res images on websites. Even the 2003 version of Dreamweaver would be dodgy by now, and that was a million miles ahead of Frontpage from day one.

Whatever about playing with it, I DEFINITELY wouldn't use it to create a company website.

Your choice, but you've been warned so make your own decision.

Best of luck (you'll probably need it)

Pablod

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OK, so you're obviously not on for taking everyone's opinion into account....

If you use Frontpage 2003 you're going to have sites that (a) look crap in different browsers and resolutions (b) use tables instead of proper CSS markup for layout and (c) allows you to use full-res images on websites. Even the 2003 version of Dreamweaver would be dodgy by now, and that was a million miles ahead of Frontpage from day one.

Whatever about playing with it, I DEFINITELY wouldn't use it to create a company website.

Your choice, but you've been warned so make your own decision.

Best of luck (you'll probably need it)

Thanks for the Reply Liam,

Yes, I am taking everyone opinion into account.
In fact since I posted this thread a few days ago I have read a lot of different opinions and what people reccoment and I also read somewhere that Frontpage has been phased out and I am looking at an alternative..

What would you reccomend yourself for both
a) software to use for Site Design -
b) is there a specific course you would reccomend for starting in web design.

(And yes your right I will need all the help & Luck I can get :rolleyes:)

Thanks
Paul

pwd

w3schools have good tutorials for html css etc.
Frontpage is very bad yes, but I think expression is a lot better. Expression or Dreamweaver would be the choices I think.

ScumLord

I used to use frontpage but it seems completely redundant at this stage. If was never really any good at HTML and even though I'm no expert I still had to go back and redo code by hand. If it can't handle CSS then there's no point in using it at all.

I'm trying to find a good css editor, hopefully one that will do most the work for me I'm really hating the step backwards when it comes to being able to design websites visually.

What is a good css editor? I'll be working mostly with Joomla websites. I have just downloaded csstools and would be willing to spend up to around €50. So no dreamweaver at this stage, I might be able to justify the price further down the line.

mewso

Visual Web Developer. Expressions is as good but not free.

Pablod

Excellent - one of my colleagues has just dropped a Microsoft Disc on my desk
MS Expression Web (Release Version I think from 2007)
And it covers CSS
So, going to have a bash with this and see what happens
If its not going to do the job -
i'll have to splash out on Dreamweaver - (yikes thats pricey :eek:)

mewso

Pablod wrote: »

Excellent - one of my colleagues has just dropped a Microsoft Disc on my desk
MS Expression Web (Release Version I think from 2007)
And it covers CSS
So, going to have a bash with this and see what happens
If its not going to do the job -
i'll have to splash out on Dreamweaver - (yikes thats pricey :eek:)

Hope he dropped a user license with it Anyway expression is good, probably not far off dreamweaver.

kevteljeur

This is going to sound a little dry, but I build websites for a living...

1) Define your audience. Who they are, what they use to browse the web (hardware and software), the hosting environment and site technology, what they want from your site, what your site needs to have and to communicate to that audience, as constrained by the first 3 items.

2) Using the information from 1, design the site. Pen and paper first, then wireframes, then colour designs.

3) When the design is signed off, design the code. Then code the common elements. Then gradually the more specific elements.

Start with WAI-compliant static HTML mark-up, and core CSS and JS elements. The mark-up and content should make sense and be completely readable without the CSS and JS, in all browsers. With CSS and JS, it should be readable in all browsers, even if it doesn't look good. With CSS and JS it should be perfect in your target browser profile. Not similar, but exactly the same. This is generally known as the browser matrix; you define how the site should be in all the browsers. It should be perfect in IE 6, IE 7, IE 8, Firefox 1.5 and up, Safari 2 and up, Google Chrome and Opera 8 and up.

Believe it or not, 'Getting it right' is worth as much for your Google ranking as any amount of fiddling about with search engine submissions or paying people to 'get the site up in Google'. It's easy to get right. Get it right, or pay someone to get it right.


If you follow all that, you can't go wrong. Few people do follow all that, and that is why there are still many hideous sites that don't work in modern browsers. Excuse my bitterness. I'd give more detail, but then I'd have to kill you. Or, you could hire me. But better for the web if everyone just got it right...

Pablod

musician wrote: »

Hope he dropped a user license with it Anyway expression is good, probably not far off dreamweaver.

Oh Yes Fully Licensed (LEGAL) copy of Expression

Pixelcraft

Pablob, there has been plenty of suggestions here, but just remember software won't be a replacement for education and knowing what you are doing, they are merely tools.

Pablod

kevteljeur wrote: »

This is going to sound a little dry, but I build websites for a living...

1) Define your audience. Who they are, what they use to browse the web (hardware and software), the hosting environment and site technology, what they want from your site, what your site needs to have and to communicate to that audience, as constrained by the first 3 items.

2) Using the information from 1, design the site. Pen and paper first, then wireframes, then colour designs.

3) When the design is signed off, design the code. Then code the common elements. Then gradually the more specific elements.

Start with WAI-compliant static HTML mark-up, and core CSS and JS elements. The mark-up and content should make sense and be completely readable without the CSS and JS, in all browsers. With CSS and JS, it should be readable in all browsers, even if it doesn't look good. With CSS and JS it should be perfect in your target browser profile. Not similar, but exactly the same. This is generally known as the browser matrix; you define how the site should be in all the browsers. It should be perfect in IE 6, IE 7, IE 8, Firefox 1.5 and up, Safari 2 and up, Google Chrome and Opera 8 and up.

Believe it or not, 'Getting it right' is worth as much for your Google ranking as any amount of fiddling about with search engine submissions or paying people to 'get the site up in Google'. It's easy to get right. Get it right, or pay someone to get it right.


If you follow all that, you can't go wrong. Few people do follow all that, and that is why there are still many hideous sites that don't work in modern browsers. Excuse my bitterness. I'd give more detail, but then I'd have to kill you. Or, you could hire me. But better for the web if everyone just got it right...

Thanks for the Info Kev good pointers there.

Have already gone through Step 1 - Information and Goal
and working through Step 2 Design/Plan on Paper at the moment.

Just a quick question....noticed you mentioned the Search with Google etc.
Could you give a quick background on that please? :D:D


I know there are Key words tags etc
Thanks a mil

Pablod

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Pablob, there has been plenty of suggestions here, but just remember software won't be a replacement for education and knowing what you are doing, they are merely tools.

Well said Pixel, totally agree with you
I'm am looking into training at the moment - just want to get experience and bit of knowledge thanks

kevteljeur

Pablod wrote: »

Thanks for the Info Kev good pointers there.

Have already gone through Step 1 - Information and Goal
and working through Step 2 Design/Plan on Paper at the moment.

Just a quick question....noticed you mentioned the Search with Google etc.
Could you give a quick background on that please? :D:D


I know there are Key words tags etc
Thanks a mil

Just code the site correctly is what I meant - there is the correct use keywords and the like, but best just to read it up. There are no clever tricks which magically help, Google just respects a well-built site.

Chardee MacDennis

i got Espresso for the mac a couple of weeks back, have to say i am very impressed with it as an editor - blows Dreamweaver away (which is what i had been using for the last 3/4 years)...

not built for WYSIWYG though...

forbairt

BastardPrince wrote: »

i got Espresso for the mac a couple of weeks back, have to say i am very impressed with it as an editor - blows Dreamweaver away (which is what i had been using for the last 3/4 years)...

not built for WYSIWYG though...

You'll probably find Coda a lot better (integrated SVN / more plugins) but espresso was cheap and cheerful and I'm using it now as well (part of macheist bundle)

Eoin

If this is for your corporate website and you're completely new to it, I'd go one further and say don't download anything and have a professional do it. There's a reason why people do this full time.

STBR

BastardPrince wrote: »

i got Espresso for the mac a couple of weeks back, have to say i am very impressed with it as an editor - blows Dreamweaver away (which is what i had been using for the last 3/4 years)...

not built for WYSIWYG though...

I can't imagine anything blowing Dreamweaver away.

What version of Dreamweaver were you using?

mikkimak

Make life easier for yourself by using a Content Management system like a PixelPress V3 from Harvard and save the hassle of needing an IT person edit everything for you. We use 2.12 for our online presence, selling gifts and it works a treat. You can look at our site, but I cannot advertise here so e-mail me and I will send you the link. We edit the site every day with new offers for customers and the warehouse deletes or suspends any out of stocks. The sales team uses the site to stay up to speed with availability and lee times. We are considering an upgrade to V3 or V4 but to be honest V2.12 works well. Use Googles Adwords to get seen in th eshort term and use Googles Analytics to manage your keywords and therefore long term rankings. It is an ongoing process which takes up quite a bit of time and as previously advised read up on it to stay up to speed.

Pablod

mikkimak wrote: »

Make life easier for yourself by using a Content Management system like a PixelPress V3 from Harvard and save the hassle of needing an IT person edit everything for you. We use 2.12 for our online presence, selling gifts and it works a treat. You can look at our site, but I cannot advertise here so e-mail me and I will send you the link. We edit the site every day with new offers for customers and the warehouse deletes or suspends any out of stocks. The sales team uses the site to stay up to speed with availability and lee times. We are considering an upgrade to V3 or V4 but to be honest V2.12 works well. Use Googles Adwords to get seen in th eshort term and use Googles Analytics to manage your keywords and therefore long term rankings. It is an ongoing process which takes up quite a bit of time and as previously advised read up on it to stay up to speed.

Excellent - thanks for the tips Mikki
Just send you a PM - wouldn't mind seeing your site
Thanks again

Edited - was unable to send PM - but you can send PM to me that would be great, cheers.

8track

Is there any free or inexpensive software good for developing a directory website, or does one really need to use Dreamweaver? The directory would include names, addresses, phone numbers etc. in searchable categories. Ideally it would allow users to submit/edit their own details. I have never done any web design, but I am prepared to learn a lot. I am an above average user of standard apps like Word, Excel, email etc. but not an expert. I am prepared to tackle coding, but wysiwyg may be wiser.


Also, any recommendations on good web development online courses or books would be welcome. I'm a bit far from major urban/educational centres.

Thanks very much.

Pixelcraft

that's not software you need, that's a web developer. There may be some off the shelf solutions out there though imo it would still need some knowledge to implement well.

8track

Pixelcraft wrote: »

that's not software you need, that's a web developer. There may be some off the shelf solutions out there though imo it would still need some knowledge to implement well.

Point taken, Pixelcraft. Paying a developer would be my preference, but lack of budget not allowing that - maybe in the future. I am prepared to try to get the knowledge in the meantime.

NickNolte

I'm not a big fan of Dreamweaver (or any WYSIWYG editor). They can be good for improving workflow and stuff I suppose but there's no substitute for clean, neat, carefully crafted hand-coded mark-up. Coda FTW.

8track

NickNolte wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of Dreamweaver (or any WYSIWYG editor). They can be good for improving workflow and stuff I suppose but there's no substitute for clean, neat, carefully crafted hand-coded mark-up. Coda FTW.

Thanks NickNolte but I would need Windows software. I think Coda is for Mac.

NickNolte

8track wrote: »

Thanks NickNolte but I would need Windows software. I think Coda is for Mac.

You should have a look at EditPlus for Windows then. Nice little editor.

Pixelcraft

8track wrote: »

Point taken, Pixelcraft. Paying a developer would be my preference

Sorry I wasn't trying to be smart, this really isn't a software issue. It will need some server side development (from you or whoever), there is no piece of software that will do what you want here, it doesn't exist.

GalwayG

some good links here for free web building tools

http://www.labnol.org/internet/free-website-building-hosting-tools/4511/

Jonny Blaze

Personally i would use Dreamweaver for the coding elements and to create images and logo's etc. I use the Gimp its a useful image editor and creation package which is free!

Also, if you are having trouble getting your head around various tags etc, or ever need a reference check out W3 Schools

Hope this is helpful!

8track

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't trying to be smart, this really isn't a software issue. It will need some server side development (from you or whoever), there is no piece of software that will do what you want here, it doesn't exist.

I hadn't been thinking about the possibility of being "smart" as an issue Pixelcraft, don't worry! I appreciate the guidance offered by you and everyone else here. I am wondering, can you elaborate a little on what you mean by server side development please? Perhaps an example or two?

A reminder of what I'm interested in doing - a website consisting of a simple searchable directory of people with their names, email address etc. in different categories. The number of diretory entries/records might run into the hundreds. I had been thinking along the lines of joomla, drupal or maybe scraping a few bob together for the likes of dreamweaver, combined with basic hosting on the likes of blacknight. Maybe web development software isn't enough and I would need to develop a database as well?

Thanks to those that recommended text/code editors on this thread, but that might be a step up too far for me yet in terms of difficulty. I would be starting nearly from scratch in html for example, apart from a little mucking around changing the content and appearance on a myspace page.

Thanks all and acknowledgment to Pablod for starting this thread.

ScumLord

NickNolte wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of Dreamweaver (or any WYSIWYG editor). They can be good for improving workflow and stuff I suppose but there's no substitute for clean, neat, carefully crafted hand-coded mark-up. Coda FTW.

Trying to hand code has been doing my head in of late. Going back over what I've done looking for a mis-spelling or a missing semi colon. I think websites have gotten twice as hard to make with all these new languages. I downloaded visual web developer, html tool kit and am very slowly getting there.

8track, if your only doing something simple like described I think joomla and a standard template of the web would suit. Drupal is more flexible but also more complicated. Even making your own templates with joomla means knowing php, html, xhtml and css. But you don't need to mess with joomla templates yet, you can set up the site use a standard template and be up and running with little in dept knowledge. Then you can go onto learn the harder stuff.

The learning curve would be steep if you went for dreamweaver and you may still end up using a cms making dreamweaver less necessary.

8track

on balance at the moment I am swaying towards joomla, but as much by feeling as logic to be honest!