Performance of cleats v's straps v's flat pedals

Hard to see many advantages for cage and straps other that you dont need special shoes. Many cyclist who have'nt changed over ,and their are very few will tell you they are nerveous concerning quick release. I would love to get Sean Kelly's opinion as I beleive he was the last pro to change to cleates. Was there financial reasons why he did'nt?.

Clipless pedals are just better. That's all you need to know. It's like riding your bike bareback.

Gavin wrote: »

What's with all these equine metaphors eh, you some sort of horsey nut? Down with that sort of thing

Horses?

At least give clipless a try, if you are not racing might be an idea to start with SPDs (MTB system) as the shoes are walkable in and very easy to clip in and out of. If doing this get the cheapest Shimano pedals you can find, they basically all work the same with the more expensive ones being lighter. You can always give them up if you don't like them, they should be easy enough to sell on.

The likes of the DMR flats will give you good retention of your foot position but will not help you with a circular pedalling technique, you will not be able to pull back and up with them. This technique really is a lot more efficient and is only possible with clipless (or with toe clips used the traditional/racing way.)

Don't go near toe clips and straps, if left loose they are of only slight use to your pedal stroke; although they will keep your foot in position you won't really be able to pull back and up. Note when racers used this system (it is still used on the track) they used special shoes with plates that effectively locked into the pedal; the toe straps were then tightened to the extent that to disengage the rider had to reach down and undo the straps with their hands... Hopefully you are starting to see why these are not a good idea

Even if left relatively loose they are far more difficult to disengage from than clipless and if you crash you very likely won't come out; I am still nursing a knee injury from taking a corner too fast in the wet on my hack bike (with toeclips, so I can use whatever shoes.) Bike slid out and I went down with it, firmly attached. With clipless, I would have just popped out and doubt the injury would have been half as bad (I have crashed often enough in clipless to know what happens )

blorg wrote: »

At least give clipless a try, if you are not racing might be an idea to start with SPDs (MTB system) as the shoes are walkable in and very easy to clip in and out of. If doing this get the cheapest Shimano pedals you can find, they basically all work the same with the more expensive ones being lighter. You can always give them up if you don't like them, they should be easy enough to sell on.

The likes of the DMR flats will give you good retention of your foot position but will not help you with a circular pedalling technique, you will not be able to pull back and up with them. This technique really is a lot more efficient and is only possible with clipless (or with toe clips used the traditional/racing way.)

Don't go near toe clips and straps, if left loose they are either of only slight use to your pedal stroke; although they will keep your foot in position you won't really be able to pull back and up. Note when racers used this system (it is still used on the track) they used special shoes with plates that effectively locked into the pedal; the toe straps were then tightened to the extent that to disengage the rider had to reach down and undo the straps with their hands... Hopefully you are starting to see why these are not a good idea

Even if left relatively loose they are far more difficult to disengage from than clipless and if you crash you very likely won't come out; I am still nursing a knee injury from taking a corner too fast in the wet on my hack bike (with toeclips, so I can use whatever shoes.) Bike slid out and I went down with it, firmly attached. With clipless, I would have just popped out and doubt the injury would have been half as bad (I have crashed often enough in clipless to know what happens )

+1 on that - same advice blorg gave me this time last year and I went for SPD and am glad I did as it really helps on climbs. Have a pair of mountain bike shoes for commuting and hard soled road shoes for long rides.

Important to note that you can loosen the tightness on the pedals at the start as you get used to it (or when in traffic when you're more likely to need to stop in a hurry) and then increase the tightness as you progress to squeeze more energy efficiency out of them (I haven't tightened mine much as I rarely pop out of them and am reassured at how easy it is to get out of them).

After 9 years I finally changed from V8's to SPDs on my MTB - never been happier, loved them so much that when I broke one of the shoes I didn't want to go back out on the flats!

Gavin wrote: »

What's with all these equine metaphors eh, you some sort of horsey nut? Down with that sort of thing

What's with the long face?

Here's me.

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I wouldn't be as good as those bears though.

I couldn't tell you. I've never really tried one, I don't think you can call the hill of Tara a real hill. When coming from the Kilmessan side it's only 1.8km's long but it is steep enough and I've no problem with that. I'm only getting to commute at the moment as there's always something on with the the kids at the weekends. I do plan on upping my distance and then start doing the Boards spins soon, so I suppose I'll find out then:eek:

There have been some studies done on pros, and at least one suggests that this business of pulling on the upstroke is all my eye - the most efficient pedalling motion involves unweighting the foot on the upstroke and no more. The advantages from cycling shoes derive primarily from the stiffness of the sole of the shoe, and the advantages of clipless pedal systems are in limiting redundant motion. As Blorg implies, the difference between clipless and clips/straps can be rendered marginal if you run the straps tight but then they can be a bugger to get out of, so no sane person does except in contexts like track cycling.

I don't think the difference between clips and clipless in a stiff-soled pair of shoes is massive, but the difference between that and flats with spongy-soled runners is quite noticeable. Since cycling shoes are no longer designed to work with cage-style pedals, it's hard to get a decent set up with clips so (with some regret) I'm thinking of going back to clipless.

Lumen wrote: »

"This shoe is as comfortable being used with toe clip pedals as it is walking for the coffee shop or bar."

Begone, tempter....

Gross cycling efficiency is not altered with and without toe-clips.

Effects of pedal type and pull-up action during cycling.

Effect of pedaling technique on mechanical effectiveness and efficiency in cyclists.

edit: Note efficiency vs effectiveness - pulling up is apparently more effective, but not more efficient, so of benefit during sprinting. Mark Cavendish is known for sprinting?

fago wrote: »

So changing from flats to cleats won't make a massive difference.

If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence.


I think you've cherry picked the opinions in this thread that confirm your initial prejudice.

Every cyclist seems to make the progression from flats to some sort of foot-retention, and they nearly all report improved power and feeling of effectiveness, myself included.

I've never known someone to go back to riding flats having used foot-retention for some time (except maybe in mountain biking where the ability to put your foot down may actually be faster/safer in some situations).

That alone is suggestive of what is better, more comfortable and faster.

I've gotten to the stage where I hate riding without spds, I keep lifting my feet off the pedals at the back of the stroke and it just feels awful, like running in flip-flops or something.