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Heat Pumps - post here.

24567…73

Comments

  • #52
    rayh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭rayh


    mick2907 wrote: »
    Hi Jloner
    I am currently going through the courts for what me plumber told me would cost me €850 per year for a dimpco LA 11 heat pump. This pump has cost me up to €1900 per year approx to run. If I take into account the €10,000 to buy the pump and the the €2000 per year to run-I was stupid to listen to my plumber. A condensor oil boiler bought in the north will cost about €300 cheaper than down here and is more efficent that any heat pump. I have the ESB bill's to prove what I paided - daylight robbery.
    STAY AWAY FROM THE HEAT PUMP- IT IS Crazy

    Mick - would be interested if you would PM me on this matter


  • #53
    Lightning McQue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭Lightning McQue


    Mick

    Could you pm because I am planning on installing this heat pump.

    Thanks.

    Lightning


  • #54
    Connacht
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭Connacht


    There is very clearly a real problem in the GSHP market in Ireland.
    My opinion is that there is a huge lack of technical knowledge among installers / vendors (basically do not know what they are doing). However, these people know full well that there is no knowledge at all out in the market among potential buyers / home owners.
    Therefore, home owners are being "over promised and under delivered".
    Thoise of you out there with systems should ask yourselves one simple question : how much would it cost me to heat this house conventionally : with OFCH or GFCH typically.
    And before anyone says it : yes, I know of and support fully the green agenda. But there are three pillars to sustainability, one of which is 'economic'.
    Mick - the best of luck in the courts.


  • #55
    rayh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭rayh


    Connacht wrote: »
    There is very clearly a real problem in the GSHP market in Ireland.
    My opinion is that there is a huge lack of technical knowledge among installers / vendors (basically do not know what they are doing). However, these people know full well that there is no knowledge at all out in the market among potential buyers / home owners.
    Therefore, home owners are being "over promised and under delivered".
    Thoise of you out there with systems should ask yourselves one simple question : how much would it cost me to heat this house conventionally : with OFCH or GFCH typically.
    And before anyone says it : yes, I know of and support fully the green agenda. But there are three pillars to sustainability, one of which is 'economic'.
    Mick - the best of luck in the courts.

    Connaught – the issue of the use of Heat Pump systems in Ireland is much wider and looking at the posts in general to this forum, the issue of “economic” would appear to have a very narrow berth.
    The “economics” of providing heat energy for our homes has 2 parts having firstly decided that you are achieving the minimum requirement:
    1) Capital costs
    2) Running costs

    Yes the system is very technical and complex in the home owners market, which leaves the later vulnerable and we are now seeing the consequences, as it appears to me that the issue of “economic” on behalf of the home owner seems to be confined to the Capital Costs and this supported by a sale on behalf of the vendor


  • #56
    TM135
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭TM135


    I am starting to build a new two story house with underfloor heating on both floors. I am considering using geothermal heating system or an oil boiler.What are your views on Geothermal systems. I am also hoping to put in a solid fuel back boiler.

    Can I use the back boiler with a geothermal system? I know I can use the back boiler with an efficent oil burner system.


  • #57
    soniag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭soniag


    Hi there,

    We have an Alpha Innotec heat pump installed for the last 3 years and every summer since it was installed it gives us trouble, but it has been out of service for almost a month now.
    If we switch the heating part off and only use the hot water it works fine.
    We are getting the same error code 716, a high pressure error every time.
    The T*$$er that installed it came up to us once, had a quick look, said "he couldn't see anything wrong with it, (as I had rebooted the system)" and left again.
    We spoke to another installer in the area but he doesn't deal with the Alpha Innotec model but is trying to help us.
    We have adjusted the heating curve down to improve the Delta T but the system bombed again last night.
    If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate them. We have a 3500sq ft house with underfloor downstairs and rads upstairs. as i said, in the winter the system works great except for the high ESB bills, but we are planning on getting a heat loss survey done in the autumn.
    Any help or suggestions gratefully accepted.

    Sonia in Sligo:(


  • #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Have you had any luck contacting the manufacturers? they should at least be able to decode the error code for you/give advice on where the high pressure is.


  • #59
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    http://www.alpha-innotec.de/SEEEMS/2059.asp


  • #60
    al2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭al2009


    Soniag

    it sounds like the hot water to the house is not taking enough heat from the fridge circuit, heat pumps trip on high pressure when the heat absorbed (from the ground) is greater than the heat rejected(to the hot water circuit), typically this can be anything from a blocked strainer to an oversized heat pump(in this case only needing to heat the cylinder water,not the underfloor circuit)

    if the pump has two compressors switch one off and see if the problem goes, if not it may be worth your while getting an unbiased diagnosis, i can recommend a good refrigeration company in Monaghan that specialise in heat pumps, no connection to myself.

    pm me if you need any further assistance.

    al


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  • #61
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    soniag,

    did they connect a large buffer tank to the system, 300 -400 liters, n.b. not your hot water tank?

    i looked at heat pums and am glad i stayed away, i am infavour of renewables, but i do not consider heat pumps a renewable as you have to use electricity to run it, given the costs labour etc.


  • #62
    Mazotasan
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭Mazotasan


    Some interesting experiences in here on heat pumps. I am currently looking at an air to water heat pump to fulfill the renewable requirement of part L...either that or solar. I found the payback on the solar to be quite long and havn't got the calcs on the air to water yet.

    What I have found though is alot of poor experiences of heat pumps is either down to incorrectly spec'd equipment, poor installs/commissioning (installers not sticking with you until its performing correctly) and poor insulation in general. I met a guy (supplier/installer) on tuesday who has underfloor heating (think it was upstairs and downstairs) in a 355 square meter house with a water to water heat pump installed. Two years ago his electricity bill was €1500 for the year and last year was €1800 (think electricity went up). He does some welding and general workshop diy also...to me that was pretty impressive.

    On his calculations over oil his real savings will be happening between years 5-10.

    The air to water heat pump was giving a COP of 4 with an output temp of 35deg and outside temp 7degrees...if you had underfloor and ran this on the nitesaver you would have a nice set up. I am planning to use rads so need 55-60deg and the COP drops to just over 2 and would need to use day rate electricity so straight away performance drops and costs increase...so it looks like solar panels for me.

    I think a lot of companies are quoting the highest COP figures achievable of their particular units under ideal conditions (for outside temp and delivered temp) which in reality only occur a small percentage of the time. The reality is also that there does appear to more failure stories out there than successful ones which is a pity because in essence I believe its good technology.


  • #63
    al2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭al2009


    Mazotasan

    A better sign of efficiency than COP is to ask for the SEER, this takes into account seasonal differences and can tell a very different story to the COP.

    Also go for brands that you recognise, to me as a fridge engineer that would be Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Daikin etc, and yes we carry all these products but the difference is that any installers of the above have been vetted by the local representatives and trained, technical back up is guaranteed through the seller, i'm still amazed at the amount of people forking out 8 to 10k on brands that don't have a strong presence here, and as previous posters have said a proper site survey and load calculation goes a long way to a trouble free install.

    IMO spend all you can on insulation first then worry about heating.........

    al


  • #64
    kboc
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    Hi there,
    I have been researching heat pumps now for 5 years and like many people thought i could make a decision for my new house but these sales reps/plumbers keep turning my head with their opinion.

    One interesting point I have started to come across with some heat pump companies is whether to heat your DHW with the heat pump technology. Companies have started to suggest it is cheaper to buy the heat pump kit and more economical to run the heat pump which soley heats the concrete slab, the DHW is heated through a immersion heater. This is common practice in scandanavia.

    Any suggestions, or experience?

    Thanks


  • #65
    liamhana
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭liamhana


    Hi - Got a dunstar system in a few yrs ago, not an ounce of trouble but thinking of getting it serviced for the winter, as they seem to have gone bust, does anyone have a good service engineer in Galway region?


  • #66
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    PM's to liamhana only please.


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  • #67
    holdfast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭holdfast


    its cheaper for me to heat my DHW by immersion anyway. you can check it by:

    17 kW X 0.08 euro x 0.75 hrs = 1.02
    2.85 kW 0.08 euro x 1 hr = 0.23

    and its gives me lots of hot water at min 60 deg c according to solar panel stat at btm of tank. people should check this and and rise temp of tank by immersion before heat pump kicks in. ( only if stat is installed on system to stop heat pump working if temp is too high in the tank is present)


  • #68
    KAGY
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭KAGY


    holdfast wrote: »
    its cheaper for me to heat my DHW by immersion anyway. you can check it by:

    17 kW X 0.08 euro x 0.75 hrs = 1.02
    2.85 kW 0.08 euro x 1 hr = 0.23

    and its gives me lots of hot water at min 60 deg c according to solar panel stat at btm of tank. people should check this and and rise temp of tank by immersion before heat pump kicks in. ( only if stat is installed on system to stop heat pump working if temp is too high in the tank is present)

    I think that it would be common practice to use the heatpump to bring the water up to around 40deg and time the immersion to raise the temp further if needed.

    In the calc above it's possible that you are mixing up the heat output of the pump with the electrical input. 17kW would mean that it was drawing 70Amps and assuming it was running for 1 hr a day would cost around 1 grand for the year (@18c/kwh) (just for hot water). Assuming for every 1kW of elec you are getting 4kw of heat out that 17kW heat output would need 2.25kW elec input.



    If you want to calculate the cost of heating water:
    Energy Required = (Litres of water) * (Temp difference) * 4.2 / 3600

    Cost using immersion = Energy * cost per kWh
    Cost using heatpump = Energy / COP * cost per kWh

    the 4.2 is the heat capacity of 1 litre of water in kJ and the /3600 is the conversion factor to kWhr. COP is the coefficient of performance


  • #69
    holdfast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭holdfast


    cheers kagy. is that 4.2 just divided by 3600 or all the formula


  • #70
    KAGY
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭KAGY


    holdfast wrote: »
    cheers kagy. is that 4.2 just divided by 3600 or all the formula

    It makes no difference, all the other operations are multiplication so it doesn't matter what order you do them in.

    BTW I didn't explain why you'd only heat the water up to 35 or 40 deg using the heat pump. It's because the higher the temperature the more inefficient the heat pump becomes.


  • #71
    Lisa76
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Lisa76


    Does anyone have an air to water heat pump using a high velocity system? If so can you give us some advice is it any good efficient etc we really kow nothing about it and are very confused!! :)

    Many thanks in advance


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  • #72
    PJMCKE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭PJMCKE


    Hi,
    I am curious to posters here.

    No one has mentioned the u values of their floors, or the thickness of their screeds or screed types. I am considering air to water heat pumps and with new regulations on u values of 0.15 this requires me putting in 120mm of kingspan K3. Experienced experts may comment on this 0.15 u value requirement.
    I would love to hear from people who have poor geothermal performances on what their floor screeds and insulation is. It could be very possible that this is their reason for their high bills.

    I have completed my pre BER and am assessing the options at present with respect to part L.
    I am finding wood pellet options almost as expsensive if not more as geothermal. So why have the storage problems and pellet quality issues if I can get a system that is cheaper, complies with part L and is comparable in expense to heat the house.

    Anyone.


  • #73
    cadrjr
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭cadrjr


    soniag wrote: »
    Hi there,

    We have an Alpha Innotec heat pump installed for the last 3 years and every summer since it was installed it gives us trouble, but it has been out of service for almost a month now.
    If we switch the heating part off and only use the hot water it works fine.
    We are getting the same error code 716, a high pressure error every time.
    The T*$$er that installed it came up to us once, had a quick look, said "he couldn't see anything wrong with it, (as I had rebooted the system)" and left again.
    We spoke to another installer in the area but he doesn't deal with the Alpha Innotec model but is trying to help us.
    We have adjusted the heating curve down to improve the Delta T but the system bombed again last night.
    If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate them. We have a 3500sq ft house with underfloor downstairs and rads upstairs. as i said, in the winter the system works great except for the high ESB bills, but we are planning on getting a heat loss survey done in the autumn.
    Any help or suggestions gratefully accepted.

    Sonia in Sligo:(
    Hi Sonia,
    did you ever get to the bottom of this fault ?
    I've got an Ochsner HP with a high pressure error too.

    Did you ever get the survey done? Did it help any ?
    My HP costs me way to much also .....

    CADRJR


  • #74
    0lddog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    al2009 wrote: »
    ...........................Also go for brands that you recognise, to me as a fridge engineer that would be Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Daikin ................

    al

    Al,

    Are you prepared to take on domestic work on these brands ?

    If so, I would be grateful if you would PM me with your location & contact details

    Thanks

    0lddog


  • #75
    doncon
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭doncon


    \Hi AL can you pm mre you contact details also


  • #76
    Paul Schweppe
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Paul Schweppe


    I can quote performance figures for an 11 kW (Nominal) heat pump with which I am very familiar:
    This specific unit has a heating capacity 10.05 kW when the leaving water is at 55 oC and outside air temperature is at +7oC. At these values the COP will be 2.36 i.e. 1 kW electricity in, 2.36 kW of Heat out.
    On a similar unit (14 kW nominal) that has been designed for High Temperature applications the figures are as follows: The unit will deliver a heating capacity 11.6 kW when the leaving water is at 65 oC and outside air temperature is at -3oC with a COP of 2.03 i.e. 1 kW electricity in, 2.03 kW of Heat out.
    An electrical element has a COP of 1 i.e. 1 kW electricity in, 1 kW of Heat out.
    A Heat pump, by it’s nature, will always have a higher COP than an electrical element!!


  • #77
    Paul Schweppe
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Paul Schweppe


    All the brands quoted above are leaders in the "split system" end of the Air Conditioning business. There are many other player in the refrigeration / heat pump market who offer high quality, well priced heat pumps with a full back up service provided by factory trained service engineers.


  • #78
    Paul Schweppe
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Paul Schweppe


    Can’t help you with the insulation but I can tell you that we recommend that you apply 46mm to 56 mm of Concrete screed with a density of 350 kg/m3 over your UFH tubing. It is worth remembering that the controls you use on you UFH should take into account the thermal inertia of the concrete and the structure of your building; standard Weather Compensation controls / t’stats alone may not be sufficient to do this.
    Re. The type refrigeration based heating systems (Geothermal and Air to Water) with the lowest capital or purchase cost are the DX Air to Water systems. With the DX units the heat is transferred from outside to inside via refrigerant gas and the water for the UFH / rads is heated inside the house, this contrasts with “Monobloc” type units where the water is heated outside in the unit and then pumped around the house. Both Geo and Air to Water heat pumps will easily provide the minimum of 10 kW hrs / m2 as per part L, furthermore the running costs of a well installed, efficiently controlled heat pump is very favourable when compared to that of a pellet boiler.


  • #79
    Oggie
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Oggie


    Hi All,
    Just moved into our newly built house approx 3 months ago. In the first month or so heating system seemed to be running very well. However it has been gradually getting worse. I have a horizontal loop propane filled geothermal pipes, with ufh connected to a pressurised cylinder. House is approx 2200 sq/ft with approx 800 sq/ft upstairs. Also have a 14Kw Stove hooked up to provide heat to the upstairs rads. Over the last 2-3 weeks our heat pump is running 24-7 but has failed to make it up to more than 18 deg and this is even with stove running. I am new to all this technology but I feel that something is seriously wrong. According to our engineer our soil is ideal for this system. Could it be an insulation problem? As far as I am aware insulation is installed correctly with pumped walls etc. At time of posting this the temp in house is 17.2 deg after running all night, however it is approx 1 - 2 deg outside. Flow temp is 32 deg return is 30 deg. compressor -.5 deg in approx 90 deg out. Can someone give me some advice please? :confused:


  • #80
    record
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭record


    Oggie wrote: »
    Hi All,
    .....At time of posting this the temp in house is 17.2 deg after running all night, however it is approx 1 - 2 deg outside. Flow temp is 32 deg return is 30 deg. compressor -.5 deg in approx 90 deg out. Can someone give me some advice please? :confused:

    Had similar problems myself (with an air-to-water heatpump in my case).

    The problems could logically be caused by the following (not an exhaustive list):
    - Heat pump not sized correctly - too small for your house.

    - House not performing as expected in terms of heat retention.

    - Problem with the heat pump.

    - Combination of the above.
    You could look at the following:
    House not performing as expected in terms of heat retention:
    Is the insulation is correctly installed - are there any draughts from poorly fitted windows, etc., hole-in-the-wall vents blowing a lot of cold air in, etc. Perhaps pay for a guy to come in with a thermal imaging camera to rule this out as an issue. This will detect any "cold bridging" (i.e. cold areas in the walls, roof, etc.). Remedial action can then be taken if needed.

    Heat pump not sized correctly (too small for your house):
    How was the size of the heatpump required for your house determined? Any of the companies that carry out BERs will be able to give you a reasonable indication of what your heat requirement should be (in KWs). It could be an issue that the heatpump is undersized. If this is the case, it could be set up to be backed up by a secondary heat source when it gets really cold outside (e.g. backed up by your stove or by an additional oil / gas boiler).

    Problem with the heatpump:
    Just to say at the outset that I am definitely not an expert on these things! Having said that, it does sound as if there is an issue there.

    There could be a problem with the settings. For example, as a simple measure, you could try increasing the "heat curve" by a few degrees (say to +2 degrees). This makes a difference in my house, can't explain why, but it definitely helped. You should be able to do this simply enough through your heatpump controller.

    Has the heatpump been installed correctly? I got a heating company to check mine as a second opinion, but had to just keep plugging away with the original suppliers to logically pinpoint where the problem was. In my case, it turned out that the underground pipe from the unit in the garden to the house (i.e. the one carrying the heated liquid) was not of the correct type. The correct, pre-insulated, pipe is very expensive and the fitter in my case took a short cut. As such, I was losing 7 degrees each way before my house gained any heat.
    I'd be very interested to hear how you get on with your heatpump and hope you get it sorted.


  • #81
    al2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭al2009


    Record

    Is your heatpump a split type unit? ie water connections inside and not at the outdoor unit?

    al


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  • #82
    Oggie
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Oggie


    Hi Record,
    Thanks for advice. Had the heating guy at the house yesterday and he thinks that it is a problem with the compressor in the heat pump. Seems that there is a valve damaged or not working properly and this is causing the gas to leak from compressor?!. Hope to have the guys back in a few days to fix or change this valve! Soon know if its going right hopefully!! Are you happy with your heat pump overall? How long have you had it installed? Regarding the air to water, is it expensive to put in also?


  • #83
    bazual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭bazual


    Hi folks,
    In a similar situation to Oggie.
    We are in house since end of August.
    House is 2400 sq feet 1 & 1/2 story. Cavity insulated with quinnterm insulation and all external walls are insulated with insulated plasterboard.
    geothermal installed upstairs and downstairs, horizontal collectors to neura heat pump. Circulation pump and unit is located in the garage and pump is pumping whole house.
    One temp sensor controller in hall downstairs controlling all. Manifold upstairs and downstairs with no temp guages. no temp guages in garage either so unable to determine flow and return.
    Basically for example temp last night just before 11pm was 20degrees.
    pump kicked in at 11pm for nightsaver to try reach 23 degs and supposed to run till 9am.
    At 12:30am the temp in hall read 19.4 degs. Then in morning at approx 8:30am it read 18.9. So lost degress with 9 hours of running. Pump has been running pretty much all day now and temp is at 19.3
    Last week it took 37 hours running straight to get from 18 to 21.5

    Had rep out from installers yesterday and he used some thing to get the return and flow on pipes in garage. He said it was about 32 and 20. He thinks the circulation pump may be too small for the house and heat may be staying to long in pump or something like that.
    So plumber now supposed to come out at weekend to check the problem.
    Anyone any advice on what I should be asking or do you need any additional information.
    Thanks for any help.
    Bazual.


  • #84
    record
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭record


    Oggie wrote: »
    Hi Record,
    Are you happy with your heat pump overall? How long have you had it installed? Regarding the air to water, is it expensive to put in also?

    Very happy with the way it heats the house, gives a nice comfortable temperature throughout which I think I prefer when compared to radiators. Too early to say if I'm happy with it overall though as we have had problems, which are now almost fully resolved, which pushed up the operating costs.

    Don't know how much it cost to put in the air-to-water system as it had already been installed when I purchased the house last year.


  • #85
    record
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭record


    al2009 wrote: »
    Record

    Is your heatpump a split type unit? ie water connections inside and not at the outdoor unit?

    al

    I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by the above question?


  • #86
    record
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭record


    bazual wrote: »
    ....Had rep out from installers yesterday and he used some thing to get the return and flow on pipes in garage. He said it was about 32 and 20. He thinks the circulation pump may be too small for the house and heat may be staying to long in pump or something like that.

    With the system I have (air-to-water), the difference between the flow and return temperatures (i.e. the liquid leaving the unit after it is heated, and then returning to the unit after it offloads its heat into the house) is supposed to be no more than about 5 or 6 degrees. If it is greater than this, it indicates a problem. This could be, for example, poorly insulated pipes carrying the liquid to and from the house, or perhaps some grit blocking the pump. (I'm sure there are probably a load of other possible causes too - these are the only ones that I know about though!)


  • #87
    Oggie
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Oggie


    bazual wrote: »

    Circulation pump and unit is located in the garage and pump is pumping whole house.
    One temp sensor controller in hall downstairs controlling all. Manifold upstairs and downstairs with no temp guages. no temp guages in garage either so unable to determine flow and return.
    Bazual,

    Just wondering should the hot water from the heat pump be going into a cylinder in the house and distributed from there to the manifold? I have a pump in the garage pumping to the house and one in the hot press taking it from the cylinder to the underfloor. You may have a different system though.

    Is the heat pump providing you with hot water? Also as regards temp gauges, I presume that there should be two on each manifold, one for flow and one for return? And is there a central control unit with the system, which gives you temp of screed, hot water etc? Seem's a bit strange that you have no way of checking the system yourself apart from the stat in the hallway. I'm just comparing it with my system (which is not working!!)


  • #88
    bazual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭bazual


    Oggie wrote: »
    Bazual,

    Just wondering should the hot water from the heat pump be going into a cylinder in the house and distributed from there to the manifold? I have a pump in the garage pumping to the house and one in the hot press taking it from the cylinder to the underfloor. You may have a different system though.

    Is the heat pump providing you with hot water? Also as regards temp gauges, I presume that there should be two on each manifold, one for flow and one for return? And is there a central control unit with the system, which gives you temp of screed, hot water etc? Seem's a bit strange that you have no way of checking the system yourself apart from the stat in the hallway. I'm just comparing it with my system (which is not working!!)

    Hi Oggie, hot water from the heat pump goes straight to the house and straight to the manifold as far as i am aware. I have no hot press so to speak.
    I would have thought I should have temp guages and will be asking for them when plumber comes this weekend, weather permitting.

    Just as an update to everyone else, I have had the heating running constantly since my last post last night and however many hours there were leading up to that. The temp just hit 21 degrees there.
    The temp does go up in the house but I need to run the heat pump for 30+ hours for it to start to rise.

    Thanks
    B~


  • #89
    bazual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭bazual


    record wrote: »
    With the system I have (air-to-water), the difference between the flow and return temperatures (i.e. the liquid leaving the unit after it is heated, and then returning to the unit after it offloads its heat into the house) is supposed to be no more than about 5 or 6 degrees. If it is greater than this, it indicates a problem. This could be, for example, poorly insulated pipes carrying the liquid to and from the house, or perhaps some grit blocking the pump. (I'm sure there are probably a load of other possible causes too - these are the only ones that I know about though!)

    Yup, I think this is what the rep said when he came out. It does sounds like it may be the pipes carrying from the garage to the house and once I get some temp guages on the manifold in the house that should give me a good idea of what the difference is.

    Thanks for your help

    B~


  • #90
    elainec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭elainec


    Hi

    I hope someone can help. This is our second winter in our new house and our Air to Water Heat Pump is not working effectively in this cold weather. The average temperature in all the rooms is 14C with the Kitchen and Sitting Room at 10C. Our home is 2200 sq ft with vaulted ceilings in the kitchen and sitting room.
    Our sole source of heat is the Heat Pump and we were told that its an economic form of heating. However last January and February our ESB costs were €800 per month!
    I need to know if there are any experts in this type of heating who can advise us what we need to do to get it working efficiently. Unfortunately the Installer is no longer trading so I can't go back to him.


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  • #91
    al2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭al2009


    Elainec

    Where are you based? What brand of heat pump is it?

    al


  • #92
    Oggie
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Oggie


    elainec wrote: »
    The average temperature in all the rooms is 14C with the Kitchen and Sitting Room at 10C. Our home is 2200 sq ft with vaulted ceilings in the kitchen and sitting room.
    Our sole source of heat is the Heat Pump and we were told that its an economic form of heating. However last January and February our ESB costs were €800 per month!

    Hi elaine,

    Sorry to hear about your situation. Im in a similar one myself with temps of just 12 degrees in the house presently, freezing!!. I have a boiler stove as well, but its still not enough. Temperatures as low as 10 are crazy considering 800 a month!

    Im just wondering have you tried contacting the manufacturer of the heat pump, and surely you have a warranty of some description?


  • #93
    KAGY
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭KAGY


    We had a similar problem last year. Turns out there was a pinpoint hole in one of the brazes / soldered joints and it was slowly leaking refrigerant.

    Your heat pump should have a sight glass on it somewhere, check that it is mostly liquid flowing though it (assuming it's before the evaporator / cold side) with only a few bubbles if any. If it's mostly gas with a few splashes of liquid then you've lost charge.
    karl

    I've got my self one of those energy monitoring devices now (the Wattson) so I can keep track of the ESB usage.


  • #94
    bazual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭bazual


    Update on my situation.........

    Had builder of house out today who fitted temp gauges to the manifold.
    After trying to balance out the rooms the temps read 34 in and about 21 return. I presume from above posts that these should be a bit closer together.
    There is an issue where one loop is not working in sunroom so possibly this may be cooling as well.

    On another point we had a discussion about the performance of system.
    When the thermostat in hall kicks in i.e. lets say aiming for 23 deg at 11pm. The circulation pump runs for 15 minutes prior to the heat pump kicking in. This appears to be standard set up but to us doesnt make sense as you are circulating cold water into house for 15mins before hot water comes in. Is this the way other people have it set up and is this correct?

    Thanks
    b~


  • #95
    bazual
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭bazual


    bazual wrote: »
    Update on my situation.........

    Had builder of house out today who fitted temp gauges to the manifold.
    After trying to balance out the rooms the temps read 34 in and about 21 return. I presume from above posts that these should be a bit closer together.
    There is an issue where one loop is not working in sunroom so possibly this may be cooling as well.

    On another point we had a discussion about the performance of system.
    When the thermostat in hall kicks in i.e. lets say aiming for 23 deg at 11pm. The circulation pump runs for 15 minutes prior to the heat pump kicking in. This appears to be standard set up but to us doesnt make sense as you are circulating cold water into house for 15mins before hot water comes in. Is this the way other people have it set up and is this correct?

    Thanks
    b~

    Another update, temp at the manifolds everytime i look now when system is on is about 30deg flow and 18 return. Still curious about the circulation pump question above if anyone knows. I have also worked out for the past couple of days me ESB costs appear to be about €9 a day making ESB for the year €3285 which in my opinion is madness. Its roughly 38 night units and could be anything from 20-30 day units. Meter is on nightsaver. I am debating getting an independant engineer out to see the site suitability and if the heat pump is strong enough.
    Thanks
    B~


  • #96
    al2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭al2009


    baz

    i would have thought you should have 55c flow temperature, any idea what the flow and return at the heat pump is? is it hitting temperature? if it is then problems are probably flow/tank related, if heat pump is not hitting temperature then it may need to be checked.

    al


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  • #97
    Oggie
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Oggie


    bazual wrote: »
    After trying to balance out the rooms the temps read 34 in and about 21 return. I presume from above posts that these should be a bit closer together.

    When the thermostat in hall kicks in i.e. lets say aiming for 23 deg at 11pm. The circulation pump runs for 15 minutes prior to the heat pump kicking in. This appears to be standard set up but to us doesnt make sense as you are circulating cold water into house for 15mins before hot water comes in.
    Hi Baz,

    I think your right about the temps being closer. I could be wrong but I think the return is an indication of how cold your floor is. You should be getting returns of about 28 or 29 in my opinion. But if one loop is not working then this would have an effect I presume. As for the circulation pump, this is standard with this system I think as mine does the same, however I have a buffer tank which contains hot water. For example when my stat send a signal back to the control panel to say that it is hot enough, this turns off the pump. However the heat pump continues to work for about an hour or so, so as to increase the temperature in the buffer tank. It does this so that when the stat calls for heat again, it is instantly available. This was the explanation I was given and it does seem to make a certain amount of sense.

    Just on an update on my own problems. I had the guys from the company out and they replaced the heat pump. Apparently a valve for the gas was not closing properly and this was causing the heat pump to overheat consistently causing damage. Its back working now again but not fully. There is still a problem with the control panel not turning off when it should but this is only a mere electronic fault!!


  • #98
    0lddog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    bazual wrote: »
    .............. I have also worked out for the past couple of days me ESB costs appear to be about €9 a day making ESB for the year €3285 which in my opinion is madness. ..............B~

    Approx how many days of the year do you need to have the heating turned on ?


  • #99
    pandl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭pandl


    Hi,
    just a first time user of this board but have had a Nibe 1220 heat pump for the last 2 years with underfloor downstairs and rads upstairs.I have only 1 stat inside the house which is located in the landing upstairs and controls the valve for the rads only.I had the same problem with return flow temp being about 8 degrees colder than flow temp and after searching the internet found a site that explained that the less restriction on the underfloor manifold the closer the temps.I then opened all the returns on the manifold last sunday night and now the temps are within 1 deg of each other.Doesnt seem to have reduced the esb but gave me a piece of mind.Hope this can help


  • #100
    windyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭windyboy


    Hi,

    I am building an ICF 2 storey house (2800 sq ft) and have been given a quote for a Waterkotte 9.4kW geothermal heat pump. The plumber is local but I believe Nutherm supply the heat pumps. Has anyone here have any experience of this pump to advise me how it is performing.

    Thanks,

    Windyboy


  • #101
    onefinemorning
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭onefinemorning


    pandl wrote: »
    Hi,
    just a first time user of this board but have had a Nibe 1220 heat pump for the last 2 years with underfloor downstairs and rads upstairs.I have only 1 stat inside the house which is located in the landing upstairs and controls the valve for the rads only.I had the same problem with return flow temp being about c and after searching the internet found a site that explained that the less restriction on the underfloor manifold the closer the temps.I then opened all the returns on the manifold last sunday night and now the temps are within 1 deg of each other.Doesnt seem to have reduced the esb but gave me a piece of mind.Hope this can help

    Hi Pandl,

    In a well balanced heating system you should be aiming for a temperature difference of 8 -> 10C between flow and return. If this temperature difference is less it it symptomatic of other problems (balancing, pump speed, pipe sizes etc)

    Opening all the returns on your manifold is not necessarily a good thing as it will unbalance the system and potentiall starve some areas of heat (water will be encouraged to return to the heat pump or buffer tank rather than going through the heating loops to the floor)

    So hope this helps - in fact your original 8 degrees temp difference sounds perfect


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