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Unsatified with my test?

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  • 15-04-2009 8:12pm
    #1
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I just took a driving test today and I am very unhappy with the way it was conducted. I have a few compaints:

    1) The tester was rather large, to the extent that he obstructed the gearstick and handbrake (bearing in mind that I drive a nissan micra and space is at a premium)
    2) The tester had a chest infection and was constantly coughing and spluttering, not only was this distracting, he was often unable to give me instructions in a timely manner (at one point I was within 4 meters of a roundabout before he told me the exit).
    3) He decided not to wear his seatbelt, which as a driving tester he is perfectly entitled to do. But thinking it might be part of the test I asked him if he was going to use it and I think he took offence.

    Do you think this is sufficient grounds for a retest. I have sent a letter to the RSA but I doubt I will get a response for a few days. Would they be likely to give another test to avoid being appealed in the district court.
    I got 12 blues in the end but no greens (rather dodgy, hard to believe I have no minor faults while having 12 more serious).
    Any opinions


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    #2
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    Firstly, some testers dont bother marking grade 1's as they have no impact on the outcome!

    Its worth applying for a retest, doubt you would get one, theres nothing to be done about a large tester, and it was grin and bare his chest infection or he woulda called in isck and your test cancelled!

    If you do decide to appeal down thecourts route, be aware they can only award a retest aswell, and cant overturn the result!


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    #3
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    Maybe he had used up his paid sick days?

    But he clearly wasnt fit to be at work, or to conduct a driving test.

    And in the example that I gave, I stopped the car (having received my directions too late to check the mirrors and indicate) and he gave me a blue for inadequate progress.

    I know that the greens have basically no effect on the test but he should have marked them anyway, thats what he is paid to do. The fact that he didnt do his job in its entiriy should be grounds for a retest. If I took this to court imagine how it would look to the judge.


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    #4
    Simon Jester
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Simon Jester


    Hard luck,

    Passed mine today, 3 blues, delighted.

    I would dispute it sounds like the tester was being grossly unfair or just not doing his job (its endemic in the RSA, believe me).


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    #5
    DriveSkill
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭DriveSkill


    Adam Selene wrote: »

    1) The tester was rather large, to the extent that he obstructed the gearstick and handbrake (bearing in mind that I drive a nissan micra and space is at a premium)

    This isnt really grounds for an appeal as no doubt the tester will have evidence of numerous tests conducted by him in the past and a percentage of those will obviously have passed.
    Adam Selene wrote: »

    2) The tester had a chest infection and was constantly coughing and spluttering, not only was this distracting, he was often unable to give me instructions in a timely manner (at one point I was within 4 meters of a roundabout before he told me the exit).

    In my opinion this is the only possible grounds you have for appeal - based on the fact that he didnt give timely directions. However that is going to be very difficult to prove as its your word against his - unless of course you have other witness who can say he was constantly coughing and couldnt possibly speak clearly!
    Adam Selene wrote: »

    3) He decided not to wear his seatbelt, which as a driving tester he is perfectly entitled to do. But thinking it might be part of the test I asked him if he was going to use it and I think he took offence.

    As you say he is perfectly entitled not to wear a seatbelt so has no bearing on any potential appeal.
    Adam Selene wrote: »

    I got 12 blues in the end but no greens (rather dodgy, hard to believe I have no minor faults while having 12 more serious).

    In my experience this is not 'dodgy' or 'hard to believe'. It is quite possible that all of the errors you made were worthy of a 'blue' fault. Its quiet common for people to fail by accumulating grade 2 faults with few or no grade 1s. Definitely not grounds for appeal.


    So, in my view you have very limited chance of success in an appeal. The appeal process is not great but its what we have to work with and I think the best advice may be to put this behind you, use the experience of doing the test to improve your driving and apply again. Better luck next time.


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    #6
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #7
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    Yes, but if I am very nice and polite and make my case well (to the RSA) I might get a test before my beard turns white and my hands turn knobbly with arthritis.

    I think my case is pretty watertight though, there is no way that test was fairly conducted and the RSA wont want to be dragged through the court system what with the legal fees.


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    #8
    Buffman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Adam Selene wrote: »
    Hi,

    I just took a driving test today and I am very unhappy with the way it was conducted. I have a few compaints:

    1) The tester was rather large, to the extent that he obstructed the gearstick and handbrake (bearing in mind that I drive a nissan micra and space is at a premium) ......................

    .......I have sent a letter to the RSA but I doubt I will get a response for a few days.

    I hope you didn't include point 1 in your letter. If so I wouldn't expect much joy with regard to any appeal.

    As others have said, an appeal based on him not giving you adequate and timely directions due to sickness may have more chance of success.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles to avoid the DRS fee.



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    #9
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    I did, but I used the word "large" and pointed out that he was sitting in an awkward position because of his height.

    You thought I meant fat didn't you, how perjoritive, he could have been built like a brick ****house ..... with a beergut.

    There isnt really a way to tiptoe around that issue though, he was obstructing the controls, you would expect a driving tester to fit in the car in which he was conducting the test.


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    #10
    DriveSkill
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭DriveSkill


    I wouldnt be getting your hopes up too much that your letter will prompt a quick response from the RSA. I would expect a standard reply back detailing the correct procedure for appealing the decision to the District Court if you so wish.

    They will follow their procedures - after all it is the public sector :) If everyone wrote a letter after they failed the test saying they werent happy with one thing or another and they gave out a free test then they would be handing out free tests every day!

    Remember the only grounds which you can appeal the result is if the test is not conducted correctly as per the procedures defined by the RSA. Now in your case that would appear to only apply to timely and clear directions from the tester. You didnt say what the faults were marked under apart from the one case, but, if for example there are faults for 'Observation', 'Reaction to Hazards' or 'Insufficient Clearance' etc then you cant really argue that they are the tester fault.

    If you've sent the letter already then please come back and let us know the reply but if it was me I would not go to the hassle and stress of taking it to court.


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    #11
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #12
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    The fee isnt an issue for me, but if I dont get a license soon I will probably loose my job

    One incorrectly awarded fault throws the entire test in doubt, requiring a retest.

    and

    Testers are supposed to maintain a quiet and non-obtrusive demeanor, coughing your lungs up in my passenger seat is neither quiet or non-obtrusive.


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    #13
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #14
    DriveSkill
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭DriveSkill


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    100% agree...if getting another test date quickly then just apply again. The court route even if successful is not going to give you an immediate date and will most likely be months away even for the court hearing.


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    #15
    DriveSkill
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭DriveSkill


    Adam Selene wrote: »
    Testers are supposed to maintain a quiet and non-obtrusive demeanor, coughing your lungs up in my passenger seat is neither quiet or non-obtrusive.

    Can you provide a reference to this directive ?

    As far as I'm aware its not in the 'Standard Procedures' doc...open to correction on that!


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    #16
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #17
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    timmywex wrote: »
    If you do decide to appeal down thecourts route, be aware they can only award a retest aswell, and cant overturn the result!

    OP, as said above, i would learn from the experience and move on. As noted twice already, appealing will not overturn the result. It will ultimately be a hassle and with no guaranteed outcome it seems not to be worth it. From what you said, yes i agree with one point, re: the lack of time between instruction being given and the actual manoeuvre. But it will come down to your word against his. Right or Wrong i dont think it's a battle worth fighting.
    Re-apply for your test asap, use this experience to better your driving and Best of Luck with your driving.


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    #18
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    Common-sense, they are not supposed to speak in the test other than to provide directions.


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    #19
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #20
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    I am hoping that the RSAs complaints officer has the sense to realise that the test was unfairly conducted and will provide a new test because it is the right thing to do.

    I have already applied for a new test, and if the RSA does not provide it free of charge I have every intention of pursuing it with the intention of receiving my 75 back.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    Speaking and coughing don't exactly fall into the same category, though, do they? He is going to argue that he had a cold and that his coughing was involuntary.

    Then he should have taken a sick day, but the fact is he took my money and didnt provide the service required and I would like my money back...please.


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    #21
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #22
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Was about to say the same thing:rolleyes:. OP, you came here looking for advice. You have received a wealth of advice from numerous posters with a great amount of knowledge on the subject. Ultimately the decision is yours.


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    #23
    DriveSkill
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭DriveSkill


    Adam Selene wrote: »
    Common-sense, they are not supposed to speak in the test other than to provide directions.

    The point is if you take it to court the "common sense" doesnt come into it - its either in the procedures or not. There is no directive on testers to remain quiet - its true that most do but others do not.

    I've just checked the 'Standard Procedures' and the recommendations mainly relate to them being 'Formal but friendly', saying 'Please and Thank-you' etc.

    In your case it would come down to whether the tester was medically fit for work or not on the day and whether it impacted the manner in which the test was carried out. You cant argue he was noisy in the car and it distracted you!

    Again, to repeat myself, I think you have a fairly weak case. All the RSA would have to do is produce records from the same tester on the same day as you, showing 60% of his candidates passed (or whatever). You have no way of proving that he gave late instructions and the arguement would have to be if some candidates could pass with him on that day then he was up to the job! Unless everyone failed on that day your case doesnt stand up to examination.


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    #24
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    Judges are given plenty of leeway in such matters, they could order another test, or a refund for the last test taken.

    The judge would do whatever makes sense, he is not shackeled by the law like us lowly mortals.

    But, it has not gone to the courts yet, I have lodged a complaint and there is every chance that the RSA may deal with it themselves.


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    #25
    DriveSkill
    Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭DriveSkill


    Adam Selene wrote: »
    Judges are given plenty of leeway in such matters, they could order another test, or a refund for the last test taken.

    The judge would do whatever makes sense, he is not shackeled by the law like us lowly mortals.

    But, it has not gone to the courts yet, I have lodged a complaint and there is every chance that the RSA may deal with it themselves.

    You need to do some research, please read here :

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driving-tests/appealing-your-driving-test-results

    Judges are bound by rules as well as everyone else - there are only 2 possible outcomes from an appeal and the best you get is a free test!


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    #26
    Adam Selene
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Adam Selene


    They arent rules, they are guidelines the RSA would be within their rights to call for judicial review of a refund and they would most likely be told to go and masticate a donkeys testicles, such is the nature of the legal establishment


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    #27
    Sunjammer
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Sunjammer


    Another thing to consider before going down the court route is that you will be liable to pay costs if you are unsuccessful, yours and the RSA's solicitors fees court fees and witness fees for the tester... As others have said it just ain't worth all the grief over €38. I strongly recommend that you put it down to experience, forget about it and concentrate on passing your next test


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    #28
    ztoical
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ztoical


    Adam Selene wrote: »
    Judges are given plenty of leeway in such matters, they could order another test, or a refund for the last test taken

    They can't refund the test, this has been said a number of times and you don't seem to be listening. All the courts can do is give you a free test. If you've already passed your test by then won't be worth much to you or if your in such a rush for another test you'll be waiting a bloody long time going via the courts.


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    #29
    Novella
    Registered Users Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    Adam Selene wrote: »
    Hi,

    I got 12 blues in the end but no greens (rather dodgy, hard to believe I have no minor faults while having 12 more serious).
    Any opinions

    No offence but that's a pretty bad fail so I doubt they'd give you a re-test for that at all. Maybe if you'd almost passed....
    Your best bet is just to try again. The driving test is insane anyway and a lot of people fail first time. I did. I wouldn't worry too much about it, just do it again and I'm sure you'll be grand.


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    #30
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    The whole driving instructor not wearing a seatbelt thing is funny really, its a joke they don't have to wear one and thankfully mine did.

    However if my tester last year got into the car and didn't put one on I would have requested that for his own safety and mine that he put one on before we depart the tester (those driving safety ads show if we were in a crash he'd be a danger to me)


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    #31
    gillo_100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 135 ✭✭gillo_100


    For all the hassle its worth I'd stay away from the courts.

    If the tester was really big enough to be blocking controls, and I see this as a perfectly valid complaint, it should have been said when test began. I'd write a letter to the RSA anyway complaining so they are aware of the issue, if a number of people complain they'll have to do something about it, even if it means saying tester is medical unfit for the job.

    In relation to seatbelt, can anyone enlighten me as to why this exception is here. I can see no reason that the tester should be allowed put their and, but more importantly, my life in more risk. Are they for some reason going to have to suddenly jump out of the car?


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