Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

gurramok · 15-04-2009 06:17PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Because someone on minimum wage behind a counter (and I was that guy for a few years during college) performs a job that can be filled by almost anyone and doesn't have any professional qualification

Then people should shutup about teachers facing assaults as an excuse for better pay as retail workers face the same if not worse violence, replaceable or not.

Also, whatever the rights and wrongs of striking during the holidays - the whole premise of industrial action is to have people take notice and get the changes you want. Striking during the holidays would be like factory workers striking while the factory is closed for a month for re-tooling anyway - absolutely pointless. I'm a private sector, non-union worker but I sure as hell wouldn't strike on my summer holidays - firstly because they're my holidays and secondly because it wouldn't make a jot of sense to do so.

Absolute horse poo.

Well done, you just some up why they are a selfish bunch who don't care about the kids.

Guess you have 90 days holidays as well so can't see you striking on them?

daveharnett · 15-04-2009 06:18PM

How about this for a simple answer to reducing class sizes - have teachers work a full year. Half of the kids go to one session, and half to the other. Would also have the benefit of reducing the seasonality of things which depend on school holidays - travel agants, childcare etc.

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 06:41PM

gurramok wrote: »

Then people should shutup about teachers facing assaults as an excuse for better pay as retail workers face the same if not worse violence, replaceable or not.

Absolute horse poo.

Well done, you just some up why they are a selfish bunch who don't care about the kids.

Guess you have 90 days holidays as well so can't see you striking on them?

Why would you (or anyone) strike on a day off when your withdrawal of labour won't affect anyone?

FlutterinBantam · 15-04-2009 06:41PM

I'd love to know what some poor sod from Dell in Limerick thinks about these poor divils of teachers on the breadline, battering on about their conditions.

Wise up lads & lassies ,you are fooling no one in these difficult times.

Surprised you thought you could garner any public sympathy.

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 06:45PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'd love to know what some poor sod from Dell in Limerick thinks about these poor divils of teachers on the breadline, battering on about their conditions.

Wise up lads & lassies ,you are fooling no one in these difficult times.

Surprised you thought you could garner any public sympathy.

I agree with you on one point: if teachers go on strike they'll only get better conditions by brazening it out and not expecting any public sympathy.

Also, the difference between a teacher in Limerick and a Dell assembly line worker in terms of job security is that, unfortunate as the situation is, the latter can be replaced by a €3-an-hour Polish worker and the former can't.

gurramok · 15-04-2009 06:45PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Why would you (or anyone) strike on a day off when your withdrawal of labour won't affect anyone?

Its suppose to be a form of protest as well. Why couldn't they picket outside the Dail on some of their 90 days off instead of disrupting kids education?

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 06:51PM

gurramok wrote: »

Its suppose to be a form of protest as well. Why couldn't they picket outside the Dail on some of their 90 days off instead of disrupting kids education?

Beacuse like it or not, nobody will give a flying fcuk if they do this. There's someone protesting something or other outside the Dail every other day now and how much attention do you think they get? People might not feel sorry for them if they strike during the school year but what it will do is cause people to take notice, whatever the morality of it is.

ejmaztec · 15-04-2009 06:52PM

Sack all of the maths teachers, they got us into this mess because they only taught subtraction. Brian Lenihan's maths teacher was an exception, in that he only gave him fiddle and cookery lessons.

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 06:54PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Why would you (or anyone) strike on a day off when your withdrawal of labour won't affect anyone?

then why are they claming it wont affect anyone??

gurramok · 15-04-2009 06:56PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Beacuse like it or not, nobody will give a flying fcuk if they do this. There's someone protesting something or other outside the Dail every other day now and how much attention do you think they get? People might not feel sorry for them if they strike during the school year but what it will do is cause people to take notice, whatever the morality of it is.

Yes, they are scum for doing that. This bleating about school facilities and class sizes yet they choose to wait till Sept to take action.

Do you agree its immoral to strike when it affects a bunch of 5yr olds education?

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 06:56PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I think most people would agree that someone of 20 years experience in any profession is worth 30k a year more than someone just starting out. Why does a lawyer of 20 years experience earn more than a trainee? Or a consultant more than a junior doctor? Come on mate, that's one argument you can't stand over at all.

most people who work 20 years don't get a pension tied into the money they were on when they retired tho?

Jesus Juice · 15-04-2009 06:57PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I agree with you on one point: if teachers go on strike they'll only get better conditions by brazening it out and not expecting any public sympathy.

Also, the difference between a teacher in Limerick and a Dell assembly line worker in terms of job security is that, unfortunate as the situation is, the former can be replaced by a €3-an-hour Polish worker and the latter can't.

WTF?

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 06:59PM

Jesus Juice wrote: »

WTF?

That was meant to be ther other way around

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 07:00PM

Jesus Juice wrote: »

WTF?

lol

They'll work for buttons in Limerick

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 07:01PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

That was meant to be ther other way around

it still doesn't make any sense?

3e an hour?

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 07:03PM

gurramok wrote: »

Do you agree its immoral to strike when it affects a bunch of 5yr olds education?

It's a difficult question. While it may well adversely affect the education of the children affected, I also believe it's immoral for the government to increase class sizes and reduce special needs funding in order to bail out bankers and property developers.

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 07:04PM

ntlbell wrote: »

it still doesn't make any sense?

3e an hour?

I believe that's what the factory workers in Dell's Lodz factory which picked up the Limerick factory's work are paid? I'm open to correction on this.

banana66 · 15-04-2009 07:07PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

It's a difficult question. While it may well adversely affect the education of the children affected, I also believe it's immoral for the government to increase class sizes and reduce special needs funding in order to bail out bankers and property developers.

Teachers are using this rubbish to hide behind the real problem that their wages were benched marked up, now they should be benched marked down and also have their performance benchmarked and fire all the incompetent teachers that we have to put up with because of unions. What a bunch of whiney, moaney annnoying tw ats.

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 07:14PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I believe that's what the factory workers in Dell's Lodz factory which picked up the Limerick factory's work are paid? I'm open to correction on this.

you do realise we have a minimum wage yes?

3e an hour would ilegal?

Handsome Bob · 15-04-2009 07:15PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Because I have a better paid job.

Never said it was easy.

Well paid, to me is an unsackable position, up to 190 days off per year, working hours 0900-1500, index linked cast iron pension. And all the sick leave and concessions that go along with that.

:rolleyes:

When's the last time you were in a school? Sorry I mean a Secondary School? I left in 2005 and I couldn't get out of my school quick enough. Students are out of control, I've seen 1st years barely up to your hip trying to start on 6th years, spitting on them and having the balls to slag a 6th year twice their size. And that's just what they do to other students.

I've seen them punch teachers in the balls, I've seen them square up to teachers who have been feared and respected by students for decades and I've seen them say vulgar things such as "sugar tits" to their teacher. They have no fear, they go wild in class and it's impossible to control them. The parents don't care, they think their children are angels and that the teachers must be victimisng them. Just recently I heard three 3rd years were expelled for sexually harassing a teacher.

What I'm trying to say is that it is a tough job, an increasingly difficult job and a job where students are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to behaviour. You don't have to worry about it being an "unsackable" job because they are already walking away from it in numbers due to stress and having nervous breakdowns. They are not paid enough IMO.

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 07:17PM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

When's the last time you were in a school? Sorry I mean a Secondary School? I left in 2005 and I couldn't get out of my school quick enough. Students are out of control, I've seen 1st years barely up to your hip trying to start on 6th years, spitting on them and having the balls to slag a 6th year twice their size. And that's just what they do to other students.

I've seen them punch teachers in the balls, I've seen them square up to teachers who have been feared and respected by students for decades and I've seen them say vulgar things such as "sugar tits" to their teacher. They have no fear, they go wild in class and it's impossible to control them. The parents don't care, they think their children are angels and that the teachers must be victimisng them. Just recently I heard three 3rd years were expelled for sexually harassing a teacher.

What I'm trying to say is that it is a tough job, an increasingly difficult job and a job where students are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to behaviour. You don't have to worry about it being an "unsackable" job because they are already walking away from it in numbers due to stress and having nervous breakdowns. They are not paid enough IMO.

when was the last time you were a bouncer in a night club?

what has the lack of control in the classroom got to do with anything

THIS IS NOT ABOUT STRESS

IT'S NOT ABOUT WILD KIDS

IT'S ABOUT MONEY

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 07:17PM

ntlbell wrote: »

you do realise we have a minimum wage yes?

3e an hour would ilegal?

You do realise that the Irish minimum wage does not apply in Poland yes - as I said above, I'm talking about the factory that Dell moved to in Poland. Jesus :rolleyes:

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 07:19PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

You do realise that the Irish minimum wage does not apply in Poland yes - as I said above, I'm talking about the factory that Dell moved to in Poland. Jesus :rolleyes:

then you have my sincere apologies.

What has Dell in Poland got to do with anything?

Handsome Bob · 15-04-2009 07:21PM

ntlbell wrote: »

when was the last time you were a bouncer in a night club?

what has the lack of control in the classroom got to do with anything

THIS IS NOT ABOUT STRESS

IT'S NOT ABOUT WILD KIDS

IT'S ABOUT MONEY

I'm telling you why they deserve every penny they get.

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 07:22PM

ntlbell wrote: »

then you have my sincere apologies.

What has Dell in Poland got to do with anything?

No bother.

If you look back over the thread, someone brought it up. Don't want to drag this futher OT than it already has been though :pac:

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 07:23PM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I'm telling you why they deserve every penny they get.

we don't pay people based on the shiote they have to accept

there is tons of jobs were you have to take utter crap and get shot at

e.g. the guards

they get paid less?

if teachers want to go on strike because they're all getting PUNCHED i'll go out on strike with them

gurramok · 15-04-2009 07:24PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

It's a difficult question. While it may well adversely affect the education of the children affected, I also believe it's immoral for the government to increase class sizes and reduce special needs funding in order to bail out bankers and property developers.

Yeh, to hell with the kids, we want more money for our own pockets that doesn't exist. Nice attitude.

Rayan · 15-04-2009 07:24PM

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Teachers aren't responsible for this crisis. The government sold this country and everyone in it to a small elite of property developers and everyone, whether via private sector workers' wage cuts and reduced hours, or public sector pension levies is paying the price for something that wasn't of their making.

I'm not responsible for this crisis either, yet I still had to take a 12% pay cut in January (private company). Do you know what my manager would say if I told him I wasn't accepting the cut because I didn't cause the crisis? Something along the lines of "Fine, goodbye then". This is how things go in the real world.

I agree with ntlbell, the assaults excuse is mostly rubbish. Why is it only being mentioned now? Why not over the last 10 years when teachers wages were rocketing? Why were there no strikes about all these "assaults" before now?

A brave young garda was killed in the line of duty only a few weeks ago, THAT is a dangerous job. Teachers? hah.

gurramok · 15-04-2009 07:26PM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What I'm trying to say is that it is a tough job, an increasingly difficult job and a job where students are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to behaviour. You don't have to worry about it being an "unsackable" job because they are already walking away from it in numbers due to stress and having nervous breakdowns. They are not paid enough IMO.

Absolute ballax. Have you seen the salary scales?

On your logic, that petrol station attendant deserves more to be paid than a teacher as after all that petrol station attendant faces severe violence more than a teacher and yet puts up with it for minimum wage.

skyhighflyer · 15-04-2009 07:28PM

gurramok wrote: »

Yeh, to hell with the kids, we want more money for our own pockets that doesn't exist. Nice attitude.

Its not my attitude. I will concede that whatever the teacher's unions say, there is no way this action can go ahead without affecting childrens' education. What I will say is that front-line services like the guards, teachers, and nurses shouldn't be affected when there's plenty of fat to trim in other areas: junior ministers, government salaries and expenses, the 56000 administrators in the HSE and the FAS budget to name four offhand.

Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

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