Who do the Teachers think they are fooling?

FlutterinBantam

Well not the Flutther anyway.

We have these well paid,well conditioned, unsackable professionals,rattling sabres at opposite ends of the country,threatening industrial action and the rest, because of the recent Budget.

WTF

I would suggest that a majority of the taxpaying population would be of the opinion that these cossetted people are overpaid and under worked as it is.

They use the education system to rachet up their "claims" and in my opinion, if they go out on strike they should be locked out and that might soften their cough.

People are losing jobs all over the place and these well paid and well heeled professionals are holding the country to ransom.

Take the fcukers on and lets see what their reaction is if they are locked out.

Gone Drinking

What would Anne and Barry do?

Eat jam..

ntlbell

I remember a teacher called Mrs Watt

When you said What she said "yes??"

I think she deserves everything she gets.

My name is URL

I didn't like teachers at school and I don't like them now.

Down with this sort of thing

Mr.Lizard

Gone Drinking wrote: »

What would Anne and Barry do?

Eat jam..

Salient point. But what would Aine and Ronan do?

ith suibh?

I think teachers provide a valuable child-minding service, keeping hundreds of thousands of little bollixs off the street on a daily basis. I've no faith in the primary/secondary school system from an educational pov so to teachers who feel likewise and feel their time and career choice has been in vain, fret ye not. I for one appreciate your baby-sitting service and think you're worth every cent.

Catari Jaguar

Yea blah blah... light your torches and get your shot guns ready. *YAWN*

It's been done. TEACHER BASHING THIS WAY

Politics forum anyone? :rolleyes:

littletiger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well not the Flutther anyway.

We have these well paid,well conditioned, unsackable professionals,rattling sabres at opposite ends of the country,threatening industrial action and the rest, because of the recent Budget.

Why don't you become a teacher if its such a good job? Not as easy as it seems. Define well paid?

My name is URL

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Yea blah blah... light your torches and get your shot guns ready. *YAWN*

It's been done. TEACHER BASHING THIS WAY

Politics forum anyone? :rolleyes:

Go heckle some kids

on a reduced salary

*hides

Catari Jaguar

Upward Spiral wrote: »

Go heckle some kids

on a reduced salary

*hides

Hahahah! Nice.

Codofwar

If you had your wage cut op for other peoples f**k ups would you complain about it regardless of how easy or hard a job it is.

I think you would!

Riddle101

Teachers actually arewell paid? where is your evidence to support this OP I think you'll find that Teachers only make a decent living as it is, but certainly not a well paid one just enough to get buy like most jobs. But hey, we don't need teachers anyway. I've always said that children should be made teach themselves so that they develop a sense of awareness at an early age, and with great technological advances today what with the Internet and books a child is more then able to learn. They just need a simply nudge from their parents and away they go:D

Overheal

I wish the teachers would do that in America. But tragically, they are too stupid to realise its a good idea.

My name is Mud

Why dont the teachers just organise a strike in the summer...?

*ba dum tish*

TequilaMockingBird

I think anyone in a job right now, is crass moaning about money.

Buuuut, when teachers are losing jobs and Special Needs Assistants are losing their jobs, fair enough. Class sizes get bigger, the most vulnerable kids are left behind, and we have a lot more adults with problems in 10/15 years. You may moan about that.

FlutterinBantam

littletiger wrote: »

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well not the Flutther anyway.

We have these well paid,well conditioned, unsackable professionals,rattling sabres at opposite ends of the country,threatening industrial action and the rest, because of the recent Budget.

Why don't you become a teacher if its such a good job? Not as easy as it seems. Define well paid?

Because I have a better paid job.

Never said it was easy.

Well paid, to me is an unsackable position, up to 190 days off per year, working hours 0900-1500, index linked cast iron pension. And all the sick leave and concessions that go along with that.

:rolleyes:

darkman2

Codofwar wrote: »

other peoples f**k ups

Ah the old Union drivel - everyone else will pay except me. YOU ARE responsible like everyone else is. Everyone is responsible and therefore you will pay like everyone else. And if the teachers are so concerned about the children (don't make us laugh) im sure we could sort out a deduction in their OWN WAGES instead in the children's interest. The pension levy is just the start.

I think half the population EXCEPT the bankers should be jailed for being stupid enough to take out loans they could not afford. Did the bankers put a gun to your heads? Did they threaten to arse rape you if you did not sign? Did they say they would KILL YOUR DOG? etc etc.........

ibarelycare

Codofwar wrote: »

If you had your wage cut op for other peoples f**k ups would you complain about it regardless of how easy or hard a job it is.

I think you would!

We've all had cuts in our wages because of other people's mistakes :rolleyes: Not only in taxes, a large amount of private sector workers have had to take pay cuts in their jobs. And that cut pay isn't going into a nice little pension for them.

otwb

littletiger wrote: »

Why don't you become a teacher if its such a good job? Not as easy as it seems. Define well paid?

40 - 65k a year for 723 contact hours per year. (starting salary of second point on salary scale plus 5k allowance for a degree)

A worker on 35 hours a week and four weeks holidays clocks up 1680 hours per year.

copacetic

Codofwar wrote: »

If you had your wage cut op for other peoples f**k ups would you complain about it regardless of how easy or hard a job it is.

I think you would!

Teachers famously wanted to take credit for the boom when they wanted extra pay under benchmarking, why are they not responsible for the recesssion also? Benchmarking now would see a serious reduction in teachers pay, if they took the rises during the boom they will have to take the pay cuts now.

Any kind of industrial action will see the public at large lobby their representatives to take MUCH stronger measures againt them.

TequilaMockingBird

Seeing employees striking now makes me laugh.

Come to think of it, we're not seeing any non-public sector employees striking are we? I wonder why...? The last lot were Waterford Crystal. And I laughed at them. In a bitter kind of way.

Borneo Fnctn

The teachers are stupid to strike.

A reduction of 4 billion euro in the budget must be made. It MUST be made, and blaming the bankers and striking is not going to change that.

We all take a part of the hit to keep the country afloat. Teachers are NOT immune from that. Why should they be? Are they willing to point out a group that should shoulder their pay cut instead of them?

Grow the **** up and stop moaning. We have an economy to save.

skyhighflyer

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Well not the Flutther anyway.

We have these well paid,well conditioned, unsackable professionals,rattling sabres at opposite ends of the country,threatening industrial action and the rest, because of the recent Budget.

WTF

I would suggest that a majority of the taxpaying population would be of the opinion that these cossetted people are overpaid and under worked as it is.

They use the education system to rachet up their "claims" and in my opinion, if they go out on strike they should be locked out and that might soften their cough.

People are losing jobs all over the place and these well paid and well heeled professionals are holding the country to ransom.

Take the fcukers on and lets see what their reaction is if they are locked out.

It's not normal I spend so long on a post but this really got to me. And before I begin, I'm not a teacher but I do have some family and friends in the job.

It's not an amazingly well-paid job: I believe teachers start at around €30k and peak at about €65k after 20-odd years in the job, not amazing by any standard. The starting salary is on a par with most graduate professions, and with the Leaving Certificate points around 470 and rising for most teacher training college courses, you can bet that most graduates from these colleges had plenty of other (more lucrative options) to choose from before they decided to become a teacher.

Yes, the holidays are fantastic and an amazing benefit, but if the kids get holidays, so do teachers. Comes with the job and is a benefit afforded to teachers the world over.

You seem to think that teaching is an easy job - I can tell you this, having seen what teachers go through on a daily basis, rising levels of assaults on teachers and increasingly disinterested parents I wouldn't do it if the starting salary was €100k.

Teachers aren't responsible for this crisis. The government sold this country and everyone in it to a small elite of property developers and everyone, whether via private sector workers' wage cuts and reduced hours, or public sector pension levies is paying the price for something that wasn't of their making.

If you actually took a look at the evidence - for example the yearly Global Competitiveness Reports compiled by the World Economic Forum - you'll see that whatever Ireland's other faults, our education system has always lead the way. In the latest report we ranked 7th of 150 surveyed countries for the quality of our educational system despite serious deficiencies in other areas - independent evidence that our teachers are doing their jobs and doing them damn well to boot.

As for your suggestion that teachers should be locked out - let the parents deal with their kids during the week for as long as teachers do and I can guarantee after a week or so they'll be begging the Government to exempt teachers from the pension levy and re-open the schools.

The villifying of the public sector in the press is a very convenient way for the government to divert attention for their own corruption and mismanagement by creating a scapegoat for the country's problems - and judging from your post it seems to have worked. Perhaps your vitriol would be better directed towards the bankers and the our glorious leaders in Leinster House who caused this whole situation.

Overheal

I say they can come back when they are number 6...then we'll talk.

SEPT 23 1989

none of this crap will be forgotten by the unemployed and the Private sector after this crisis ends,everyone in this together,yeah right:mad:

ntlbell

skyhighflyer wrote: »

It's not an amazingly well-paid job: I believe teachers start at around €30k and peak at about €65k after

why do people keep lashing this out

after a couple of years based on the amount of hours they work

it works out at just under 1,000 a week for every week worked

how can anyone say that's not well paid?

this is not including the added security and fantastic pension etc

if you're going to rattle on about the poor teachers don't hang yourself by bringing this up

skyhighflyer

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

littletiger wrote: »

Because I have a better paid job.

Never said it was easy.

Well paid, to me is an unsackable position, up to 190 days off per year, working hours 0900-1500, index linked cast iron pension. And all the sick leave and concessions that go along with that.

:rolleyes:

See that's the thing. I will happily accept that you won't find any teachers on the breadline or being refused for a mortgage, my point is that, in my view, and on any rational analysis of the cost/benefit ratio of having decent teachers for our kids, they're worth that much.

otwb

skyhighflyer wrote: »

It's not an amazingly well-paid job: I believe teachers start at around €30k and peak at about €65k after 20-odd years in the job,

Yes, the holidays are fantastic and an amazing benefit, but if the kids get holidays, so do teachers. Comes with the job and is a benefit afforded to teachers the world over.

You seem to think that teaching is an easy job - I can tell you this, having seen what teachers go through on a daily basis, rising levels of assaults on teachers and increasingly disinterested parents I wouldn't do it if the starting salary was €100k.

They start on the second point of the salary scale @35k for some obscure reason and also get 5k for having a degree. They can do the same job for 25 years and retire on 63,361. Where is the 30k worth of added value?

Why not provide support for slow learners or do teacher training during the summer holidays?

Gardai are asssaulted more frequently than teachers and start on a basic salary of 27,098 which rises to 48,695 after 17 years service.

gurramok

People on Min wage in retail deal with the public as well and get assaulted by types, don't they deserve to have the same pay as a teacher?

And why can't the teachers strike in June, July or August and not wait till September?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0415/education.html

Primary school teachers are to engage in rolling industrial action from September

They don't give a sh1t about the kids but only to line their own pockets.:mad:

inode

Patsy Panda and Huggy Bear would have this matter sorted in a matter of hours!

skyhighflyer

otwb wrote: »

They start on the second point of the salary scale @35k for some obscure reason and also get 5k for having a degree. They can do the same job for 25 years and retire on 63,361. Where is the 30k worth of added value?

I think most people would agree that someone of 20 years experience in any profession is worth 30k a year more than someone just starting out. Why does a lawyer of 20 years experience earn more than a trainee? Or a consultant more than a junior doctor? Come on mate, that's one argument you can't stand over at all.

skyhighflyer

gurramok wrote: »

People on Min wage in retail deal with the public as well and get assaulted by types, don't they deserve to have the same pay as a teacher?

And why can't the teachers strike in June, July or August and not wait till September?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0415/education.html


They don't give a sh1t about the kids but only to line their own pockets.:mad:

Because someone on minimum wage behind a counter (and I was that guy for a few years during college) performs a job that can be filled by almost anyone and doesn't have any professional qualification

Also, whatever the rights and wrongs of striking during the holidays - the whole premise of industrial action is to have people take notice and get the changes you want. Striking during the holidays would be like factory workers striking while the factory is closed for a month for re-tooling anyway - absolutely pointless. I'm a private sector, non-union worker but I sure as hell wouldn't strike on my summer holidays - firstly because they're my holidays and secondly because it wouldn't make a jot of sense to do so.

gurramok

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Because someone on minimum wage behind a counter (and I was that guy for a few years during college) performs a job that can be filled by almost anyone and doesn't have any professional qualification

Then people should shutup about teachers facing assaults as an excuse for better pay as retail workers face the same if not worse violence, replaceable or not.

Also, whatever the rights and wrongs of striking during the holidays - the whole premise of industrial action is to have people take notice and get the changes you want. Striking during the holidays would be like factory workers striking while the factory is closed for a month for re-tooling anyway - absolutely pointless. I'm a private sector, non-union worker but I sure as hell wouldn't strike on my summer holidays - firstly because they're my holidays and secondly because it wouldn't make a jot of sense to do so.

Absolute horse poo.

Well done, you just some up why they are a selfish bunch who don't care about the kids.

Guess you have 90 days holidays as well so can't see you striking on them?

daveharnett

How about this for a simple answer to reducing class sizes - have teachers work a full year. Half of the kids go to one session, and half to the other. Would also have the benefit of reducing the seasonality of things which depend on school holidays - travel agants, childcare etc.

skyhighflyer

gurramok wrote: »

Then people should shutup about teachers facing assaults as an excuse for better pay as retail workers face the same if not worse violence, replaceable or not.



Absolute horse poo.

Well done, you just some up why they are a selfish bunch who don't care about the kids.

Guess you have 90 days holidays as well so can't see you striking on them?

Why would you (or anyone) strike on a day off when your withdrawal of labour won't affect anyone?

FlutterinBantam

I'd love to know what some poor sod from Dell in Limerick thinks about these poor divils of teachers on the breadline, battering on about their conditions.


Wise up lads & lassies ,you are fooling no one in these difficult times.

Surprised you thought you could garner any public sympathy.

skyhighflyer

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'd love to know what some poor sod from Dell in Limerick thinks about these poor divils of teachers on the breadline, battering on about their conditions.


Wise up lads & lassies ,you are fooling no one in these difficult times.

Surprised you thought you could garner any public sympathy.

I agree with you on one point: if teachers go on strike they'll only get better conditions by brazening it out and not expecting any public sympathy.

Also, the difference between a teacher in Limerick and a Dell assembly line worker in terms of job security is that, unfortunate as the situation is, the latter can be replaced by a €3-an-hour Polish worker and the former can't.

gurramok

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Why would you (or anyone) strike on a day off when your withdrawal of labour won't affect anyone?

Its suppose to be a form of protest as well. Why couldn't they picket outside the Dail on some of their 90 days off instead of disrupting kids education?

skyhighflyer

gurramok wrote: »

Its suppose to be a form of protest as well. Why couldn't they picket outside the Dail on some of their 90 days off instead of disrupting kids education?

Beacuse like it or not, nobody will give a flying fcuk if they do this. There's someone protesting something or other outside the Dail every other day now and how much attention do you think they get? People might not feel sorry for them if they strike during the school year but what it will do is cause people to take notice, whatever the morality of it is.

ejmaztec

Sack all of the maths teachers, they got us into this mess because they only taught subtraction. Brian Lenihan's maths teacher was an exception, in that he only gave him fiddle and cookery lessons.

ntlbell

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Why would you (or anyone) strike on a day off when your withdrawal of labour won't affect anyone?

then why are they claming it wont affect anyone??

gurramok

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Beacuse like it or not, nobody will give a flying fcuk if they do this. There's someone protesting something or other outside the Dail every other day now and how much attention do you think they get? People might not feel sorry for them if they strike during the school year but what it will do is cause people to take notice, whatever the morality of it is.

Yes, they are scum for doing that. This bleating about school facilities and class sizes yet they choose to wait till Sept to take action.

Do you agree its immoral to strike when it affects a bunch of 5yr olds education?

ntlbell

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I think most people would agree that someone of 20 years experience in any profession is worth 30k a year more than someone just starting out. Why does a lawyer of 20 years experience earn more than a trainee? Or a consultant more than a junior doctor? Come on mate, that's one argument you can't stand over at all.

most people who work 20 years don't get a pension tied into the money they were on when they retired tho?

Jesus Juice

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I agree with you on one point: if teachers go on strike they'll only get better conditions by brazening it out and not expecting any public sympathy.

Also, the difference between a teacher in Limerick and a Dell assembly line worker in terms of job security is that, unfortunate as the situation is, the former can be replaced by a €3-an-hour Polish worker and the latter can't.

WTF?

skyhighflyer

Jesus Juice wrote: »

WTF?

That was meant to be ther other way around

ntlbell

Jesus Juice wrote: »

WTF?

lol

They'll work for buttons in Limerick

ntlbell

skyhighflyer wrote: »

That was meant to be ther other way around

it still doesn't make any sense?

3e an hour?

skyhighflyer

gurramok wrote: »

Do you agree its immoral to strike when it affects a bunch of 5yr olds education?

It's a difficult question. While it may well adversely affect the education of the children affected, I also believe it's immoral for the government to increase class sizes and reduce special needs funding in order to bail out bankers and property developers.

skyhighflyer

ntlbell wrote: »

it still doesn't make any sense?

3e an hour?

I believe that's what the factory workers in Dell's Lodz factory which picked up the Limerick factory's work are paid? I'm open to correction on this.

banana66

skyhighflyer wrote: »

It's a difficult question. While it may well adversely affect the education of the children affected, I also believe it's immoral for the government to increase class sizes and reduce special needs funding in order to bail out bankers and property developers.

Teachers are using this rubbish to hide behind the real problem that their wages were benched marked up, now they should be benched marked down and also have their performance benchmarked and fire all the incompetent teachers that we have to put up with because of unions. What a bunch of whiney, moaney annnoying tw ats.

ntlbell

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I believe that's what the factory workers in Dell's Lodz factory which picked up the Limerick factory's work are paid? I'm open to correction on this.

you do realise we have a minimum wage yes?

3e an hour would ilegal?

Handsome Bob

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Because I have a better paid job.

Never said it was easy.

Well paid, to me is an unsackable position, up to 190 days off per year, working hours 0900-1500, index linked cast iron pension. And all the sick leave and concessions that go along with that.

:rolleyes:

When's the last time you were in a school? Sorry I mean a Secondary School? I left in 2005 and I couldn't get out of my school quick enough. Students are out of control, I've seen 1st years barely up to your hip trying to start on 6th years, spitting on them and having the balls to slag a 6th year twice their size. And that's just what they do to other students.

I've seen them punch teachers in the balls, I've seen them square up to teachers who have been feared and respected by students for decades and I've seen them say vulgar things such as "sugar tits" to their teacher. They have no fear, they go wild in class and it's impossible to control them. The parents don't care, they think their children are angels and that the teachers must be victimisng them. Just recently I heard three 3rd years were expelled for sexually harassing a teacher.

What I'm trying to say is that it is a tough job, an increasingly difficult job and a job where students are becoming increasingly worse when it comes to behaviour. You don't have to worry about it being an "unsackable" job because they are already walking away from it in numbers due to stress and having nervous breakdowns. They are not paid enough IMO.