So Harney has just banned BZP...

Zillah · 14-04-2009 02:29AM

O'Coonassa wrote: »

If a chap drank a bottle of spirits real fast they could die. Sometimes they do. Mary Harney has no right to stop them by making the booze illegal.

People should take responsibility for raising their children. If you raise one stupid and it kills itself that's bad but it's no reason for the State to deprive all people of their Liberty.

So I take you believe Cocaine, Heroine and PCP should legal?

14-04-2009 02:36AM

Morning Glory Seeds are the work of the devil. I ate hundreds of them and while I did feel a bit stoned, I also felt really sick. So I just sat there for hours feeling rotten and then when I finally got sick (Which was the best part of the night) it came out all dry and like a poo. I shít you not. I shat them out my mouth.

misty floyd · 14-04-2009 08:32AM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Morning Glory Seeds are the work of the devil. I ate hundreds of them and while I did feel a bit stoned, I also felt really sick. So I just sat there for hours feeling rotten and then when I finally got sick (Which was the best part of the night) it came out all dry and like a poo. I shít you not. I shat them out my mouth.

stop talking sh*t!

My name is URL · 14-04-2009 10:54AM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Morning Glory seeds, by all accounts, would seem to be fairly toxic. They also give a completely different high to MDMA analogues. I'm at a loss as to why you would even mention them, let alone claim they're "probably safer".

They give a different high to MDMA because the active ingredient is LSA (Ergine).

Where did you read that they're fairly toxic?

Of course you need to be careful (as with everything).. afaik some seed producers (botanists) coat the seeds with chemicals to prolong shelf life, which would be toxic.

But for organically grown and correctly prepared seed extract I don't think that's true

JC 2K3 · 14-04-2009 11:41AM

Upward Spiral wrote: »

They give a different high to MDMA because the active ingredient is LSA (Ergine).

I know that (It's actually a combination of many ergot alkaloids including LSA, the high is supposedly quite different to taking pure LSA). I'm asking why you would suggest them as an alternative to legal MDMA analogues...

Upward Spiral wrote: »

Where did you read that they're fairly toxic?

Reading reports, there seems to be a higher incidence of nausea than other psychedelics, which could be due to this:

Upward Spiral wrote: »

ome seed producers (botanists) coat the seeds with chemicals to prolong shelf life, which would be toxic.

And therefore mightn't be the case for this:

Upward Spiral wrote: »

But for organically grown and correctly prepared seed extract I don't think that's true

But that's not what you get in head shops (or at least, there's no guarantee that's what you'll get in a head shop).

My name is URL · 14-04-2009 12:46PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I know that (It's actually a combination of many ergot alkaloids including LSA, the high is supposedly quite different to taking pure LSA). I'm asking why you would suggest them as an alternative to legal MDMA analogues...

Reading reports, there seems to be a higher incidence of nausea than other psychedelics, which could be due to this:

And therefore mightn't be the case for this:

But that's not what you get in head shops (or at least, there's no guarantee that's what you'll get in a head shop).

I wasn't trying to compare them with anything. I was only pointing them out as a legal-high.

As for headshops, well I've never bought anything from them.

<SNIP>

alexandros · 14-04-2009 01:02PM

ffs.. get laid people

O'Coonassa · 14-04-2009 01:16PM

Zillah wrote: »

So I take you believe Cocaine, Heroine and PCP should legal?

Everything. I believe in Liberty. The State has no right to dictate what sovereign individuals may or may not ingest into their own bodies. I don't know what makes you think that it does have this right over you.

JC 2K3 · 14-04-2009 01:26PM

alexander.t wrote: »

ffs.. get laid people

Preferably whilst on drugs.

Kipperhell · 14-04-2009 01:33PM

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Everything. I believe in Liberty. The State has no right to dictate what sovereign individuals may or may not ingest into their own bodies. I don't know what makes you think that it does have this right over you.

I think that is fair enough to have that view. Personally I think it is pretty short sighted and does not consider what could happen as a result. It is nice to think people would be responsible or there would be no increase in use to a detrimental level.

I think historically it goes back to the opium wars and now it is reinforced by international trade. If we legalised everything the country would be destroyed economically. It isn't really just in control by our state.

old gregg · 14-04-2009 01:35PM

apparently Harney banned BZP pills coz they made her bum look big

witnessmenow · 14-04-2009 01:46PM

CCCP^ wrote: »

Did I ever tell you about the time, about 2/3 years ago, I was standing in a line outside an ATM and Mary Harney waddled up to me? It was election time and she came over and almost grabbed my ****ing hand off as I was minding my own business and shot off before I had time to properly react. Jesus if I could go back in time...

Are you telling me Shamu had time to sneak up you, grab your hand AND run off before you time to react? .... You better lay off the good stuff there buddy :pac:

ScumLord · 14-04-2009 02:35PM

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think that is fair enough to have that view. Personally I think it is pretty short sighted and does not consider what could happen as a result. It is nice to think people would be responsible or there would be no increase in use to a detrimental level.

I think historically it goes back to the opium wars and now it is reinforced by international trade. If we legalised everything the country would be destroyed economically. It isn't really just in control by our state.

I don't think this is true at all. The world worked perfectly well before prohibition and it can't really be said the opium wars where the fault of the average Joe stumbling across the drug and becoming addicted.

The fact is drug crime has only arisen since prohibition came in and it's gotten worse and worse year on year. The current system benefits criminals and encourages an acceleration of violence as more and more money is thrown at the problem by both sides. There's actually little evidence to support prohibition if you compare the before and after effects.

I'm not suggesting all drugs be sold over the counter to anyone that wants them there and then. But a person should have the ability to try drugs under the right circumstances. The vast majority of drug users don't turn become violent thugs (excluding alcohol) and don't deserve to be labelled as immoral criminals.

Kipperhell · 14-04-2009 03:40PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think this is true at all. The world worked perfectly well before prohibition and it can't really be said the opium wars where the fault of the average Joe stumbling across the drug and becoming addicted.

.

Well you can't really say everything was fine prior to prohibition and also mention the opium wars. Without the prohibition such things would happen again. You also can't ignore the international agreements we signed already. The world is a much different place now while in the past an orange was a treat now it is common place the same rule would apply to drug supply.

My grandfather died of morphine due to lack of controls and medical ignorance. A regular guy who was just ill advised due to bad controls.

I don't think prohibition is a perfect solution by any stretch of the imagination but we simply are unable to stop prohibition point blank. Certain drugs should be relaxed IMHO but I think it is idiotic to think removal of the laws is even possible on our own. It is clear the war on drugs is being lost

ScumLord · 14-04-2009 04:19PM

Kipperhell wrote: »

Well you can't really say everything was fine prior to prohibition and also mention the opium wars. Without the prohibition such things would happen again. You also can't ignore the international agreements we signed already.

Well you can and it happens. I also wouldn't agree that the reasons for making some drugs illegal where completely honest or even medically based.

My grandfather died of morphine due to lack of controls and medical ignorance. A regular guy who was just ill advised due to bad controls.

But this is what's happening with illegal drugs now. They may be banned but in reality they're available to anyone without restriction. Real information isn't readily available and what's worse is the lack of any kind of quality control makes them 10 times more dangerous.

O'Coonassa · 14-04-2009 04:35PM

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think that is fair enough to have that view. Personally I think it is pretty short sighted and does not consider what could happen as a result. It is nice to think people would be responsible or there would be no increase in use to a detrimental level.

I reckon people are more sensible than you're assuming. If drug use was medicalised rather than criminalised it would soon loose its glamour. Maybe it is fair to say that the number of addicts would initially increase but becoming addicted is an individual choice. However it seems fairly clear that the current high levels of addict and gangster fed crime would be greatly diminshed. I do not like to see the high levels of murder and theft sustained just because some people are too foolish to say no to themselves.

Kipperhell wrote: »

I think historically it goes back to the opium wars and now it is reinforced by international trade. If we legalised everything the country would be destroyed economically. It isn't really just in control by our state.

Agreed, the narcotics legislation which the Anglos brow-beat the rest of the world into is international, any country that breaks it is immediadely relegated to the role of international pariah.

Executive Steve · 14-04-2009 05:22PM

missingtime wrote: »

Well the drug dealers will be happy. Sales of E's should increase quite a bit I would imagine.

Horrible horrible stuff, well done Harney - Have a ham sandwich. Or two....

actually it won't have much effect there - a vast amount of the e sold here in the last few years was basically just BZP sold under false pretences.

not that i'm too anti-bzp; the main issue with it was that many people didn't read the instructions on the box and did three or four at a time while drinking because they assumed being legal it must be weak or not work at all...

Executive Steve · 14-04-2009 05:23PM

but you'll notice that there's effectively been legal ecstasy in the shops for the past few years without society collapsing and withouth any noticeable ill effect on the health of the nation...

Executive Steve · 14-04-2009 05:26PM

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Agreed, the narcotics legislation which the Anglos brow-beat the rest of the world into is international, any country that breaks it is immediadely relegated to the role of international pariah.

Actually - the US federal government just recently decided not to intervene when any of it's constituent states operated a more tolerant legal attitude to illegal substances, so maybe there's a bit of a sea change around the corner.

Spunge · 14-04-2009 05:44PM

If they ban BZP theres just tonnes of stuff that can replace it. Theres stuff in the shops right now thats a lot more ecsttasy-like but nobody seems to know about it.

They need some very general ban to get rid of everything. Not sure why spice or salvia arent banned they are also very like illegal narcotics and everyone knows it.

Zillah · 14-04-2009 05:45PM

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Everything. I believe in Liberty. The State has no right to dictate what sovereign individuals may or may not ingest into their own bodies. I don't know what makes you think that it does have this right over you.

I didn't say I thought that.

Executive Steve · 14-04-2009 05:49PM

Spunge wrote: »

They need some very general ban to get rid of everything.

Why?

Valmont · 14-04-2009 06:34PM

Amalgam wrote: »

Please, a warning, Morning Glory misuse is very very unforgiving. Nasty stuff. I would not advise anyone without a background in botany to go anywhere near a group of plants with powerful Alkaloids with a view to ingesting them. You'll end up very ill or dead. People often mistake Jimson Weed (Datura Stramonium and similar) for Morning Glory, they are not the same.

I had 10 Baby Woodrose seeds and while 36 hours was a tad bit long for a trip, I had a great time simply wriggling around my house pretending to be a worm and listening to Strange Days by The Doors.

Is it not a bit misleading to lump Morning Glory in with Datura or Angel's Trumpet in terms of danger? There's a fair chance you'll go blind or die with Datura while Morning Glory seeds will just make you puke right?

ChocolateSauce · 14-04-2009 07:14PM

On one level, I'm relieved! I HATE that stuff. Now I'll (hopefully) never be handed any at a party. The last time I had it I was awake for 36 hours, and not buzzing, just hoping I'd fall asleep.

On a more serious level, I'm deeply disgusted. There's no evidence BZP is harmful, and to the best of my knowledge, no one has ever done anything bad of note while on it. This is nothing more than another idiotic banning of a recreational substance.

The good news is, unlike most other illegal drugs, this one won't cause crime when it's pushed underground because no one wants the stuff enough to go to a dealer.

To answer the question, has it actually affected me? No. The real stuff is cheaper, more pleasant and easier to get anyway.

nobodythere · 14-04-2009 10:45PM

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Everything. I believe in Liberty. The State has no right to dictate what sovereign individuals may or may not ingest into their own bodies. I don't know what makes you think that it does have this right over you.

That was fine when we lived under the laws of nature, fact is we have to take care of the monstrosities (sp?) us humans create

nobodythere · 14-04-2009 10:46PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

The good news is, unlike most other illegal drugs, this one won't cause crime when it's pushed underground because no one wants the stuff enough to go to a dealer.

If it's not so easy to get BZP for them any more who knows what **** they'll try to substitute it with

ahara · 15-04-2009 02:52AM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Preferably whilst on drugs.

Ideally with Mary Harney while on Drugs.

Amalgam · 15-04-2009 03:29AM

Valmont wrote: »

I had 10 Baby Woodrose seeds and while 36 hours was a tad bit long for a trip, I had a great time simply wriggling around my house pretending to be a worm and listening to Strange Days by The Doors.

Is it not a bit misleading to lump Morning Glory in with Datura or Angel's Trumpet in terms of danger? There's a fair chance you'll go blind or die with Datura while Morning Glory seeds will just make you puke right?

You've taken an educated risk. That worked for you. I'm not lumping it in myself, but there does seem to be confusion.. and sadly, Jimson Weed is grouped with Morning Glory, or rather, there isn't a clear distinction made, people just don't seem bothered to read up on what they're taking.

O'Coonassa · 15-04-2009 04:06AM

grasshopa wrote: »

That was fine when we lived under the laws of nature, fact is we have to take care of the monstrosities (sp?) us humans create

I am still living under the laws of nature I'm afraid. Perhaps that's my problem. I'm not inclined to cuddle any monstrosities tbh

eightyfish · 15-04-2009 04:58PM

Zillah wrote: »

So I take you believe Cocaine, Heroine and PCP should legal?

Bukowski:

I think that everything should be made available to everybody, and I mean LSD, cocaine, codeine, grass, opium, the works. Nothing on earth available to any man should be confiscated and made unlawful by other men in more seemingly powerful and advantageous positions. More often than not Democratic Law works to the advantage of the few even though the many have voted; this, of course, is because the few have told them how to vote. I grow tired of 18th century moralities in a 20th century space-atomic age. If I want to kill myself, I feel that should be my business. If I go out and hold up gas stations at night to pay for my supply it is because the law inflates a very cheap thing into an escalated war against my nerves and my soul.

CHARLES BUKOWSKI
'This Floundering Old Bastard is the Best Damn Poet in Town',
interview, John Thomas, LA Free Press, 1967.

So Harney has just banned BZP...

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