Windows 7

02-04-2009 12:04AM

watty wrote: »

But still not as good as NT3.51, NT4.0, XP (AKA NT5.1), OSX, Ubuntu, Linpus, Solaris, Fedora/Redhat/CentOS.

Windows7 is better than Vista Original. But technically is really NT 6.2, a minor increment of Vista.

Satisfied OSX/XP/Ubuntu users may be better waiting to see what Windows NT7.0 is like (They'll have to call it Windows 8)

Windows will never be the same again. Vista is the point where the ship sailed. Putting aside any compatibility or performance issues, my main reason for hating Vista is the interface redesign so I'll never like any of the new versions as much as XP.

chavezychavez · 02-04-2009 09:36AM

Karsini wrote: »

Windows will never be the same again. Vista is the point where the ship sailed. Putting aside any compatibility or performance issues, my main reason for hating Vista is the interface redesign so I'll never like any of the new versions as much as XP.

I remember saying the exact same thing when I moved from 98 to XP. Hated the design of XP compared to 98. But guess what, it grew on me and all of us over time.

(Now in saying the above, I agree about Vista. Its a pig of an OS. Don't mind the redesign too much, overall its just muck)

quarryman · 02-04-2009 09:40AM

What's with all the Vista hate?

I didn't like it when I first installed it but after SP1 all the major problems were fixed and would never go back to XP now. Little things like the search in the Start Menu and explorer bar are a great help. Its more stable for gaming for me than XP. The interface is great and I think it looks much better than XP.

I'm curious about Windows 7 now as people are describing it as "Vista SP3". That's exactly what I want!

0ubliette · 02-04-2009 09:43AM

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

Not that I am encouraging downloading this but Build 7057 has been leaked on some torrent sites and is expected to be the last or penultimate release before RC 1 is released on April 10th.

Info on Release 7057 leaked

EDIT
List of Changes[/URL]

7057 IS Rc1, as far as im aware. Installed it myself, and on the license agreement page it says 'blah blah do you agee to install Windows 7 release candidate 1'

Ginger · 02-04-2009 09:47AM

7068 is a later build compiled a couple of days ago.. RC1 is expected to be released to TAP start of May with possibly public RC end of May

watty · 03-04-2009 01:08AM

Windows Search is fairly rubbish, though works. BUT you could have had it on Start bar if you wanted since NT4.0 in 1996.

The Problem is Quarryman that in terms of a configured system, business use, or people that bother to customise their XP Professional, Vista and Win7 offer nothing compelling. There is the least reason to upgrade. The only worse release EVER since windows 3.1 and NT 3.1 is Windows ME, which was giant step back from NT4.0 or Win98SE.

Vista/Win7 isn't as bad as ME. But an upgrade needs more HW performance and RAM and offers NOTHING you can't do just as productively on XP, OSX or Ubuntu.

Intel isn't stupid, have you seen how much resources, money and staff they are gifting to Moblin, their vision of the next NetBooks/Laptops?

Win7 in contrast needs TWO different cut down versions for cheap Netbook/laptops and comes in about 7 or 8 versions to extract the max of unwary punters.

Vista has had the slowest business take up of any supposed major Windows release in a long time. The fact is that anything really worth while they dropped and they have concentrated on candy, tinkering with the GUI.

Winy isn't even Win7, but Windows NT6.2, hence the cracks about it being Vista SP3, except people that got Vista (rather than INSISTING on XP which you can still do today) do need to upgrade to Win7. Unlike a if it was released as SP3, they have to pay. XP users don't need to "upgrade". Nor of course do users of linpus, OSX, Fedora, Solaris, Ubuntu.

03-04-2009 10:27AM

Microsoft claim that the reason Windows 7 is really NT 6.1 is to maintain application compatibility. But really I think it's just that Windows 7 is a minor release which is based on Vista so doesn't warrant a new version number. In the same way that Windows 98 (4.1) was a minor release based on 95 (4.0).

Rattlehead_ie · 03-04-2009 10:43AM

0ubliette wrote: »

7057 IS Rc1, as far as im aware. Installed it myself, and on the license agreement page it says 'blah blah do you agee to install Windows 7 release candidate 1'

It was meant to be RC 1 as MS didnt plan on making any changes till the April release date for RC1, but there were a cpl of flaws with this 7057 release that MS werent happy with leaving so since there has been another 2 releases the current is 7067 and is stable and also has the RC1 comment in the T&C. This is for now the RC that will be release to public as long as MS dont find any other major flaws.

Note the their idea was to have a RC released to their MSDN testers for about a month before release publically which does coincide with the expected early May release for it.

cpu-dude · 03-04-2009 11:44AM

Karsini wrote: »

Microsoft claim that the reason Windows 7 is really NT 6.1 is to maintain application compatibility. But really I think it's just that Windows 7 is a minor release which is based on Vista so doesn't warrant a new version number. In the same way that Windows 98 (4.1) was a minor release based on 95 (4.0).

They wanted to get away from the Vista name because it's associated with a bad reputation, Windows 7 (even though it's Vista fixed) is just something new a shiny for people to like - glad it actually works this time, I like XP but I wanted something new.

miralize · 03-04-2009 08:43PM

Ive been using it for 4 months, best Os I've used

seraphimvc · 04-04-2009 11:08PM

hmmm,interesting to hear that Windows 7> Xp,which i think is a good thing for me cause' i am thinking to go back Xp on my laptop!

and so i heard we vista user is getting free upgrade to 7?anyone think that i should just wait for 7 to come out and forget about Xp?i prefer performance wise but wanna move on from Xp actually

watty · 05-04-2009 12:19AM

Only people buying Windows7 ready PCs with a claim cert and Vista installed close before Win7 release get free update. This is normal and been done before to avoid a stall in PC sales just before release.

Existing Vista users at the minute will pay. The problem is that Windows 7 is not new, just a more polished version of Vista, which is an ill-conceived increment of XP. Almost everyting of value promised was dropped from design and concentration is largely on cosmetics. SUDO is pretty daft and UAE and Win7 replacement is a bad copy of it. NT originally had a very good token based security mode which successive Win95/Win3.1 trained programmers seem to not understand.

Once the novelty was off on Win7 I can see OSX and Linux eating more share. MS has had to keep putting off ceasing XP. Even now there are new PCs coming out with XP , not Vista.

The only thing you can't do on XP is run DirectX 10 applications. Otherwise Win7 and Vista offer nothing else. Less HW and applications otherwise are supported.

Skype 4.0 is needed for Win7 as 3.8 doesn't work. 4.0 is a piece of rushed rubbish.
With Win 7, MS media apps are locked to MS codecs. Backward step.

seraphimvc · 05-04-2009 10:51PM

Thanks mate

looks like i wont go near Windows 7 anytime soon.

if i am free i might do a downgrade to Xp then.or a dual boot,always wanna try ubuntu

05-04-2009 11:05PM

I just realised I haven't got the newest version of any Microsoft app. OS wise I'm on XP, I use Office 2003 and Windows Live Messenger 8.5 (in actual fact I don't know anyone who likes the new version of WLM). Might have to consider the Linux path somewhere down the line but don't want to change all my apps.

AlmightyCushion · 06-04-2009 08:34PM

watty wrote: »

The only thing you can't do on XP is run DirectX 10 applications. Otherwise Win7 and Vista offer nothing else.

That's bull. The new taskbar, the search box in the start menu, libraries and better 64 bit support are some very good features that aren't in xp. I'm sure there are others but they are the only ones I can think up off the top of my head. Vista was meant to be more secure and more modular but I have no idea how true that is.

fuse · 06-04-2009 11:24PM

I installed it on my laptop. Build 7068. All's well with it, installed and ran most programs fine. Only problem is when I try run Firefox or IE8, they both crash everytime I try start them up.

mp5sd5 · 07-04-2009 12:13PM

Anyone else having problems with Windows Media Player? It was working fine until a couple of weeks ago, and now it won't recognise anything to sync to, even though I have set up at least three sync partnerships. I can, however, still drag and drop files onto the devices with no problems, but album art, etc. are not copied over.

Running Windows 7, 2GB DDR2 RAM, Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 @2.13 GHz, with an ATI Radeon X1650 SE 512mb graphics card.

watty · 07-04-2009 06:26PM

Anyong tried a VB6 app that works on XP that fails with error 70 on Vista on Windows 7
http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2006/06/10/625285.aspx

It's common to use Sendkeys within a VB program to simulate keyboard input

Peteee · 07-04-2009 07:58PM

watty wrote: »

Anyong tried a VB6 app that works on XP that fails with error 70 on Vista on Windows 7
http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2006/06/10/625285.aspx

It's common to use Sendkeys within a VB program to simulate keyboard input

keyboard input like

sendkeys"startkey";
sendkeys"up";
sendkeys"up";
sendkeys"up";
sendkeys"cmd";
sendkeys"deltree c:/documents%20and%20settings/watty";
sendkeys"y";

Capt'n Midnight · 07-04-2009 08:25PM

Peteee wrote: »

keyboard input like
sendkeys"deltree c:/documents%20and%20settings/watty";

LOL
and LOL at deltree

Epic Tissue · 07-04-2009 10:42PM

seraphimvc wrote: »

Thanks mate looks like i wont go near Windows 7 anytime soon.

I wouldn't listen to Watty tbh. He's obviously biased against MS for some reason or other.

watty · 07-04-2009 11:31PM

That would be why I have about €8k to €12K worth of MS Software bought since 1993?

And use Windows XP on my laptop & my two Workstations and Win2K Server, even though I have more than 10 years Linux deployment, training and development experience and over 20 years UNIX experience?

I've installed windows on over 600 computers apart from servers. Designed and deployed large number of MS Server + workstation networks for over 8 years.

Which is why I never ever store stuff in "My Documents".

Iv'e been telling people for years that I didn't believe there was a viable alternative to MS on Workstation and that a properly configured MS server is just as secure and stable as Linux if not more so. But Vista and Win7 are changing the game.

We have 8 laptops at home. I have had to convert others from Vista to XP. The last three laptops setup run Linux and worked even the WPA WiFi out of the box (a traditional ill on Linux).

We have Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice and Eagle PCB CAD on Linux and XP.

papu · 07-04-2009 11:54PM

Win 7 is great.

Peteee · 08-04-2009 11:06AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

LOL
and LOL at deltree

Stupid example obviously (I didn't even realise deltree didn't exist anymore, not since NT...god my childhood!) but the blog post is correct, non privileged processes shouldn't be giving higher privileged processes commands of what to do, backwards compatibility bedammned.

If you ever read 'the old new thing' blog you'll see how far MS goes to maintain backwards compatibility, and they don't break it lightly.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-04-2009 12:07PM

Peteee wrote:

If you ever read 'the old new thing' blog you'll see how far MS goes to maintain backwards compatibility, and they don't break it lightly.

it would be RD %userprofile% /S /Q instead of deltree \. /Y

And don't get me started on backwards compatibility

its fairly OK in NT 3./4/5
between DOS / Win3 / 95 and NT the syntax kept changing /mini rant

watty · 08-04-2009 03:09PM

The problem was MS's implementation of Sendkeys. All they needed to do was implement it differently. THEY (not the users of VB) implemented it wrong in the first place.

It's even fairly trivial to implement your own sendkeys that works on Vista. But that doesn't help compiled programs people already have. MS could easliy do a patch. maybe they have by now.

DOS, Win3.x & win9x/ME and NT/W2K/XP/Vista are three completely different families.

I see MS has extended life of XP again. This time to 30 April 2010. I guess it will be still sold when Win 10 is around.

They only stopped shipping Win3.x embedded last year!

Dardania · 09-04-2009 08:30AM

watty wrote: »

That would be why I have about €8k to €12K worth of MS Software bought since 1993?

And use Windows XP on my laptop & my two Workstations and Win2K Server, even though I have more than 10 years Linux deployment, training and development experience and over 20 years UNIX experience?

I've installed windows on over 600 computers apart from servers. Designed and deployed large number of MS Server + workstation networks for over 8 years.

Which is why I never ever store stuff in "My Documents".

Iv'e been telling people for years that I didn't believe there was a viable alternative to MS on Workstation and that a properly configured MS server is just as secure and stable as Linux if not more so. But Vista and Win7 are changing the game.

We have 8 laptops at home. I have had to convert others from Vista to XP. The last three laptops setup run Linux and worked even the WPA WiFi out of the box (a traditional ill on Linux).

We have Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice and Eagle PCB CAD on Linux and XP.

Watty - have you tried Windows 7 beta?

Peteee · 09-04-2009 02:32PM

watty wrote: »

Iv'e been telling people for years that I didn't believe there was a viable alternative to MS on Workstation and that a properly configured MS server is just as secure and stable as Linux if not more so. But Vista and Win7 are changing the game.

What do you mean by this?

If anything pre vista OS's from Microsoft are inherently insecure by design, and now that MS are finally getting around to architecting in security in a sensible way this somehow makes them less secure? Less usable? which?

watty · 09-04-2009 04:27PM

NT, rather than Windows on DOS (win 3.x, win9.x) started life MUCH better security model than UNIX and nearly secure by design.

MS have broken this and continue to "Patch" rather than throw away the unsecure accretions (such as brain dead UAE and policy editors).

VISTA is NOT a new design of OS. It's a reworked GUI with more dependance on DirectX (inherently insecure and invented to port DOS games) rather than zero directX dependence other than for games originally.

It's not a new OS kernel either, but a hack of the kernel that they badly compromised in changing from NT3.51 to NT4.0.

Vista and Win7 are better pre-patched. They are absolutely not inherently more secure, nor a designed as secure OS. They are the next iteration of NT.

Most people will buy Windows 7 because they will think there is no choice. For some people the only choices are XP and Vista/Win7. I certainly would find a Mac (I've used them on & off for 10 years) less useful than a linux Netbook as it has almost none of the specialist applications I need. Linux actually has more, but still less than a 1/4 of the applications I need.

I used NT4.0 from 1996 to 2002 and only changed to XP to get supported USB support, and newer graphics & satellite cards not supported on NT4.0

I don't see any reason to throw away old PCs and OS and upgrade just because MS wants to sell a MacOS lookalike clone of XP and a bunch of eye candy fan boys on Gadget Blogs always want the Latest Thing.

Win7 adds no extra functionality or security over XP properly configured other than DX10. It needs much higher spec HW. I do have a 2G byte RAM AMD X64 3700+ with X1600 graphics as workstation. But I used to run XP fine on a PIII 833MHz 512M RAM.

My laptop is fine but not suitable graphics adaptor for VISTA/Win7 and "only" 768M RAM. A similar featured new laptop for Vista/Win would cost me €1600 to €2700. (It's not used for netbook applications

)

So sorry, I won't join in on Win7 fanboyism. It's only a fixed version of Vista. It works fine, but I and many other home, professional & Business users that are not playing the latest high end DX10 game will not need it.

I have a car. It goes fine. I won't get a new one because there is a new model.

My MFC scanner/printer/fax/copier is obsolete. But I'll only replace it when it breaks.

I have WRITTEN OSes and programmed security applications. There is no "architecting" or design of security on Vista/Win7, it's a Kludge.

If you want an OS secure by design forget Mac, Win, Linux, Solaris, UNIX. Get deep pockets and start designing. You can't bolt it in after.

And ban use of C and C++ for all OS & driver coding too.

AlmightyCushion · 09-04-2009 08:18PM

watty wrote: »

Win7 adds no extra functionality or security over XP properly configured other than DX10. It needs much higher spec HW. I do have a 2G byte RAM AMD X64 3700+ with X1600 graphics as workstation. But I used to run XP fine on a PIII 833MHz 512M RAM.

My laptop is fine but not suitable graphics adaptor for VISTA/Win7 and "only" 768M RAM. A similar featured new laptop for Vista/Win would cost me €1600 to €2700. (It's not used for netbook applications )

I assume you missed my post above.

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

That's bull. The new taskbar, the search box in the start menu, libraries and better 64 bit support are some very good features that aren't in xp. I'm sure there are others but they are the only ones I can think up off the top of my head. Vista was meant to be more secure and more modular but I have no idea how true that is.

Direct x 10 isn't the only new feature in windows 7. Also out of curiosity, what is it your laptop has that a new one would cost over €1500?

Windows 7

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