Is this plain wrong?

stovelid · 23-03-2009 12:27PM

Need to know exactly what transpired before he hit her, to be honest.

Jigsaw · 23-03-2009 12:27PM

RaverRo808 wrote: »

If a man hits a woman,he is the lowest form of life and should be put down like a stray dog,but saying that any times have seen men hit women its usually and domestic situation and the women is as giving as much as the man,if thats the case dont get involved as can turn nasty on the good smaritan trying to help

Lol, so you feel the appropriate punishment for assault and battery is execution? Let me remind you, the law does not differentiate between genders for the purposes of offences against the person.

In general, the problem with this story is that we don't know what happened inside the pub to result in the woman being hit. The benefit of this explanation might be that while you still not condone the woman getting hit a thump, you could go a long way to understanding why it happened.

Donny5 · 23-03-2009 12:32PM

Sleipnir wrote: »

You can't just walk around the country making citizen's arrests. Basically, in order to make one, the offense has to be serious enough that it would carry a 5 year or more prison sentence. You can also only make one you believe that the offender will avoid arrest by the Gardai.

You can't just walk up to someone who's just smacked another person and make a citizen's arrest.

Assaut is an arrestable offence. You could call the Gardaí, inform the offender, and if he or she attempts to leave, place him under arrest yourself.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0004.html

greendom · 23-03-2009 12:42PM

Jigsaw wrote: »

Lol, so you feel the appropriate punishment for assault and battery is execution? Let me remind you, the law does not differentiate between genders for the purposes of offences against the person.

In general, the problem with this story is that we don't know what happened inside the pub to result in the woman being hit. The benefit of this explanation might be that while you still not condone the woman getting hit a thump, you could go a long way to understanding why it happened.

From the report though, the woman had left the pub and was no longer causing trouble. Surely the staff should only use force if this was not the case, regardless of what happened inside.

So yes it was plain wrong

ferrigan101 · 23-03-2009 12:44PM

stovelid wrote: »

Need to know exactly what transpired before he hit her, to be honest.

Think i agree here tbh. Have managed pubs and restaurants for a few years and have never felt the need to hit anyone for anything they may have done. If the staff were involved she may have been trying to steal thier tips. He still shouldnt have hit her mind.

Sleipnir · 23-03-2009 12:48PM

Donny5 wrote: »

Assaut is an arrestable offence. You could call the Gardaí, inform the offender, and if he or she attempts to leave, place him under arrest yourself.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0004.html

"An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána."

Proving "resonable cause" in the case of the OP's post (i.e. a punch) would be extremely difficult. Also, you simply calling the Gardai doesn't mean that the person who is to be arrested is attempting to avoid arrest by a Garda. That is too say, there's probably not a huge risk of the person going straight to the airport to avoid arrest by the Gardai.

If you don't do a citizen's arrest correctly, you run the risk of commiting a crime yourself in the process.

To arrest someone is to deprive that person of his liberty. Normally the term is used in the sense of law enforcement; to deprive someone of his liberty as part of a crime is more commonly called kidnapping. To arrest someone requires force or, at least, compulsion. If you're not very careful you could find yourself accused of false imprisonment, kidnapping and/or assault.

If someone gives someone else a punch, you don't try to make a Citizen's arrest, you call the Gardai!

Tupins · 23-03-2009 01:09PM

Dudess wrote: »

Of course it's plain wrong. And a man hitting a woman is no worse than a woman hitting a man.

I really feel I have to respond to this.

In terms of showing disrespect, setting example for others and legally speaking then yes, a woman hitting a man is just as bad but in terms of physical implications then I could not disagree more.

I am female by the way and of course this will not be considered politically correct for me to say but in general there is the capacity for a HUGE difference between the physical strength of men and women. I don't always think that people realise just how big this difference normally is. Yes, there are some women who are big and strong, and good for them but generally speaking men outweigh women in size and physical strength. This is a fact no matter how much we would like it not to be and I will speak in terms of this generalisation here as I feel it is the norm rather than the exception.

A woman hitting a man with all her strength will in no way have as much impact as a man hitting a woman with the full force of his strength. Also, a man could much more easily stop the blows by physically restraining the woman and therefore defend himself. A woman would not have the equal physical strength to overpower or restrain a man or have as much capacity to stop a blow/s.

I'm sure we've all had innocent situations of horse play with partners of the opposite sex (or possibly less innocent situations) so we're all aware of this difference in strength. Perhaps my husband is unusually strong, or maybe I am unusually weak but personally speaking I know I wouldn't have a hope against him physically. (Luckily I know he would never hit me so I don't even worry about that.)

Having said all this, I do not agree for one moment with a woman hitting a man - or anyone hitting anyone else for that matter (unless in self defence). It is assault in either case and both cases are wrong but to say that a woman hitting a man is no worse than a man hitting a woman, I disagree. The possible implications of the latter are just blatantly greater.

PS. sorry for going a bit off topic

consultech · 23-03-2009 01:18PM

road_2_damascus wrote: »

you have wittnessed an assault, its a crime. You could have made a citizen's arrest

OP may have been too young for battle to do this.

Alcatel · 23-03-2009 01:24PM

"Citizens Arrest". Probably mentioned more by keyboard warriors than any other race. Yet, there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of citizens arrests actually happening. If you just watched someone (man or woman) thump someone else (man or woman), would you wander over and say "I am placing you under citizens arrest!"

That aside, to the OP, anyone hitting anyone is plain wrong, unless it's in self defence.

consultech · 23-03-2009 01:30PM

Alcatel wrote: »

"Citizens Arrest". Probably mentioned more by keyboard warriors than any other race.

I've always lulled at the concept myself tbh. I can only imagine what my reaction would be if someone ever took me by the arm and uttered the magical words! Lulle at "race" also.

The vigilante in me has always favoured a swift karmaic 1-2 in situations where I feel a weaker party is being unfairly wailed on. Fortunately for said party I have no such hangups about assault.

FlutterinBantam · 23-03-2009 02:00PM

Lovely, just lovely!!

Here we have a supposed educated person witnessing an serious assault,and instead of reporting what they saw to the Guards,starts a thread on AH.

Is it any wonder we are in the state we are in?

Dampsquid · 23-03-2009 02:48PM

Pictures or it didn't happen

Tech3 · 23-03-2009 03:11PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Lovely, just lovely!!

Here we have a supposed educated person witnessing an serious assault,and instead of reporting what they saw to the Guards,starts a thread on AH.

Is it any wonder we are in the state we are in?

She was outside the pub standing around for about 10 minutes after the incident. If she wanted to press charges and asked me to be a witness of a crime then gladly I would have helped. Where in my post did I mention what to do if it happened. I was simply asking was it wrong nothing else.

What pub was it? Name & Shame!

I dont think it would be a good idea to post the name of the pub in a public forum.

Tech3 · 23-03-2009 03:12PM

Dampsquid wrote: »

Pictures or it didn't happen

Yes and I would have a camera in my back pocket ready to take a photo. He was literally out and back in again in a few seconds.

dollybird09 · 23-03-2009 03:16PM

Dudess wrote: »

Of course it's plain wrong. And a man hitting a woman is no worse than a woman hitting a man.

I know a woman shouldn't hit a man either, but there is something worse about a man hitting a woman, it's very unlikely that a woman will be able to match the strength of a man and defend herself...

I don't condone violence of any kind, but there is a perception out there that it is less acceptable for a man to raise his hand to a lady....IMO anyway..

ferrigan101 · 23-03-2009 04:07PM

tech2 wrote: »

She was outside the pub standing around for about 10 minutes after the incident. If she wanted to press charges and asked me to be a witness of a crime then gladly I would have helped. Where in my post did I mention what to do if it happened. I was simply asking was it wrong nothing else.

I dont think it would be a good idea to post the name of the pub in a public forum.

Ahh go on, at least what street its on?

Naos · 23-03-2009 04:08PM

tech2 wrote: »

Yes and I would have a camera in my back pocket ready to take a photo. He was literally out and back in again in a few seconds.

What mobile phone do you have?

Fat_Fingers · 23-03-2009 04:17PM

Well, at least then send us a picture of yourself ( in underwear)

Tech3 · 23-03-2009 04:28PM

Naos wrote: »

What mobile phone do you have?

sagem my411x with a very poor lens on it. Wouldnt have caught the the punch too far away from it

Smart Bug · 23-03-2009 04:30PM

tech2 wrote: »

sagem my411x with a very poor lens on it. Wouldnt have caught the the punch too far away from it

Should have asked him to hit her again so ye could take a close-up.

My name is URL · 23-03-2009 04:33PM

tech2 wrote: »

I dont think it would be a good idea to post the name of the pub in a public forum.

Probably not a good idea to smack a woman outside a public house either, if you saw it happen you have every right to name the pub. Defamation and libel laws are negated by truth.

stovelid · 23-03-2009 04:38PM

Upward Spiral wrote: »

Defamation and libel laws are negated by truth.

??

My name is URL · 23-03-2009 05:36PM

stovelid wrote: »

??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Truth

truecrippler · 23-03-2009 05:44PM

tech2 wrote: »

No everyone just watched, she got up within a few seconds but I thought myself it really was a horrible thing to do regardless of whatever she did in the pub. She had a shopping bag in her hand dont know what she was up to be honest. She was hanging around the place then for another 10 mins outside the pub didnt look like she was drunk

When in a pub, you're supposed to eat crisps that you buy in a pub, not the ones you buy in a shop.

She had it coming to her tbh.

javaboy · 23-03-2009 05:45PM

Nobody name the pub or its location.

It may be only libel/defamation if it's true but that doesn't stop the subject bringing a case anyway.

truecrippler · 23-03-2009 05:49PM

RaverRo808 wrote: »

If a man hits a woman,he is the lowest form of life and should be put down like a stray dog,but saying that any times have seen men hit women its usually and domestic situation and the women is as giving as much as the man,if thats the case dont get involved as can turn nasty on the good smaritan trying to help

Eugh, I love dogs and stray dogs should be given a second chance... but this guy isn't in the same league as a stray dog so don't stoop these dogs down to his level. :mad:

truecrippler · 23-03-2009 05:54PM

Tupins wrote: »

I really feel I have to respond to this.

In terms of showing disrespect, setting example for others and legally speaking then yes, a woman hitting a man is just as bad but in terms of physical implications then I could not disagree more.

I am female by the way and of course this will not be considered politically correct for me to say but in general there is the capacity for a HUGE difference between the physical strength of men and women. I don't always think that people realise just how big this difference normally is. Yes, there are some women who are big and strong, and good for them but generally speaking men outweigh women in size and physical strength. This is a fact no matter how much we would like it not to be and I will speak in terms of this generalisation here as I feel it is the norm rather than the exception.

A woman hitting a man with all her strength will in no way have as much impact as a man hitting a woman with the full force of his strength. Also, a man could much more easily stop the blows by physically restraining the woman and therefore defend himself. A woman would not have the equal physical strength to overpower or restrain a man or have as much capacity to stop a blow/s.

I'm sure we've all had innocent situations of horse play with partners of the opposite sex (or possibly less innocent situations) so we're all aware of this difference in strength. Perhaps my husband is unusually strong, or maybe I am unusually weak but personally speaking I know I wouldn't have a hope against him physically. (Luckily I know he would never hit me so I don't even worry about that.)

Having said all this, I do not agree for one moment with a woman hitting a man - or anyone hitting anyone else for that matter (unless in self defence). It is assault in either case and both cases are wrong but to say that a woman hitting a man is no worse than a man hitting a woman, I disagree. The possible implications of the latter are just blatantly greater.

PS. sorry for going a bit off topic

As a man... gtfo!

Dudess · 23-03-2009 09:27PM

Yes, I agree men generally have more physical strength than women, but I'd argue that's beside the point. I'm not so much referring to the subsequent physical damage as to the act. There seems to be a notion that while it's not good for a woman to hit a man, it's a bit "better" than a man hitting a woman.

FlutterinBantam · 23-03-2009 09:30PM

jaysus!! The Sun is hot?

iDontReallyCare · 23-03-2009 09:57PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

jaysus!! The Sun is hot?

Thanks

Is this plain wrong?

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