Things you wish were common knowledge.... but aren't!

13-03-2009 12:02am

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Not ES, but a few points to note:

6) You are not automatically entitled to remission of a prison sentence, it's only given for good behaviour.

Afraid you're mistaken on this one. A prisoner is entitled to a quarter remission on all sentences except those of a month or less ,or if committed in respect of a debt. a Judge can hold you in contempt and keep you locked up until the contempt is purged.

Com1186 · 13-03-2009 2:32am

999 is not a freephone no for calling garda station

TheNog · 13-03-2009 9:30am

Com1186 wrote: »

999 is not a freephone no for calling garda station

Yes this is a big one folks.

999 phone calls are for emergency life/death/serious injury calls only.

May I also add life/death/serious injury that concerns human life not the "my dog is dying" call I had last week!!!!

hunnymonster · 13-03-2009 10:06am

TheNog wrote: »

Yes this is a big one folks.

999 phone calls are for emergency life/death/serious injury calls only.

May I also add life/death/serious injury that concerns human life not the "my dog is dying" call I had last week!!!!

Thanks, that's another one I've wondered about. While I would have the number of my "home" station in my phone, I'm often out of that area. It came up one time when out paddling, friend returned to his car to find it broken into and everything stolen. Hardly life an death but he didn't have the local number with him. Should you ring 999 in this case, obviously can't leave without calling gardai someway first.

Trojan911 · 13-03-2009 10:17am

hunnymonster wrote: »

Should you ring 999 in this case, obviously can't leave without calling gardai someway first.

No, would be the short answer, because it is not an emergency.

You could ring directory enq's for the number or ring your local station and they will either give you the number or take skeleton details & pass the allegation up to the local station on your behalf (more likely give you the number of the station you need).

Some calls that don't merit the Emergency numbers.....

maglite · 13-03-2009 1:40pm

Can i ask what differance it makes weather ye recieve the call via 999 or not?

TheNog · 13-03-2009 2:25pm

maglite wrote: »

Can i ask what differance it makes weather ye recieve the call via 999 or not?

our 999 phone anyway is a single telephone so we can only take one call at a time. We'd rather keep the line clear for emergencies only.

Here's another one:

When you ring a 24hr station the line keeps ringing out, this doesnt mean we dont want to answer your call, it mean we are very busy answering other calls on the same phone. So do persist and call us back.

Also this may come across as bad:

When you ring us we dont want your life story. We just want the facts in as short a story as possible on whats happening. If we want to know more we will ask. By doing this it can mean we can get to you faster and know we are dealing with before arriving.

eroo · 13-03-2009 2:33pm

TheNog wrote: »

When you ring us we dont want your life story.

How rude!!!:p

daithip · 13-03-2009 3:18pm

maglite wrote: »

Can i ask what differance it makes weather ye recieve the call via 999 or not?

We're not saying don't ring the 999 line, its just don't ring it and tie the line up when its not an emergency, makes common sense!

In Dublin you have Control which takes your 999 calls, but down the country there may be possibly only one phone in each district HQ for this and if someone rings up over their cat in a tree then it may be tieing up the line when there is a real emergency call trying to get through!

Micky Dolenz · 13-03-2009 3:23pm

Does dailing 112 end up ringing the same line?

daithip · 13-03-2009 3:30pm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Does dailing 112 end up ringing the same line?

Yes, it's the internationally recognised emergency number

DeVore · 13-03-2009 3:46pm

daithip wrote: »

We're not saying don't ring the 999 line, its just don't ring it and tie the line up when its not an emergency, makes common sense!

In Dublin you have Control which takes your 999 calls, but down the country there may be possibly only one phone in each district HQ for this and if someone rings up over their cat in a tree then it may be tieing up the line when there is a real emergency call trying to get through!

Are you saying each district handles its own 999 calls? I thought they were centralised... I'm not sure how I feel about that, seems quite inefficient to have it distributed...

I'm not sure I should be reading this thread

DeV.

daithip · 13-03-2009 3:51pm

DeVore wrote: »

Are you saying each district handles its own 999 calls? I thought they were centralised... I'm not sure how I feel about that, seems quite inefficient to have it distributed...

I'm not sure I should be reading this thread

DeV.

When you dial 999, the operators in various telephone exchanges will put you through to the appropriate Garda Stations, for Dublin its Control in Harcourt Square down the country the District HQ.

jc07 4lyf · 13-03-2009 5:42pm

Always something i wanted to figure out,

If i ring 999 where more than one service is required, say i arrive at an accident and gardai and ambulance are needed,

whats the process or who do i request to be put through to first or what happens?!

santosubito · 13-03-2009 6:25pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Not ES, but a few points to note:

6) You are not automatically entitled to remission of a prison sentence, it's only given for good behaviour.

Not really. There is a standard 25 per cent remission for prisoners, except those serving an indeterminate sentence, ie life. Remission can be taken off you for disciplinary infractions, but's that's only a few weeks at a time. For example, Liam Keane was supposed to get out of POrtlaoise at a certain day last month, but it was delayed for a week or so because he had a bit of remission taken off him.
I think remission in Britain is 33 per cent. And in the north it used to be 50 per cent - may still be.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/prison-system/remission_and_temporary_release

TheNog · 13-03-2009 7:04pm

jc07 4lyf wrote: »

Always something i wanted to figure out,

If i ring 999 where more than one service is required, say i arrive at an accident and gardai and ambulance are needed,

whats the process or who do i request to be put through to first or what happens?!

If you need a multiple agency response then you call the most important. Say its a road collision and someone is injured, ask for an ambulance first. Sometimes a hospital or ambo station could be far away so Ambo Control will get an ambo rolling first then they will call us.

You could say it to the Ambo Control yourself that Gardai or Fire Service is needed if people are trapped. Anyways if it is a bad one Gardai, Ambo and Fire will call each other to ensure everyone is notified of the collision or whatever it is.

dredre · 13-03-2009 7:29pm

In much of Dublin, the Fire Service also provide the ambulance service so I would call them 1st.

Out of Dublin, many local fire chiefs wont dispatch to an RTC if the ambulance service requests them until the ambulance actually arrives on scene and confirms they are needed. This leads to long delays, so I would call the fire service AND the ambulance service seperately.

Either the fire or ambulance service will notify the Gardai if you ask (And often even if you don't). Depending on the incident, you might have time to ring Gardai yourself as well and avoid the chinese whispers between controls.

daithip · 13-03-2009 8:29pm

One small one that gets me, is when a member of the public rings the station looking for a particular member in relation to a ticket, summons case etc. they've involved with, the member concerned isn't there so they proceed to tell you the whole story about it. We're not fobbing you off by saying you'll have to speak to the member concerned, it really means you have to speak to the member concerned as we don't have access to their notebooks, files etc and can't deal with their cases or give you any information.

Eru · 13-03-2009 10:42pm

If you lost your phone 3 months ago in Donegal dont hand me an insurance form with the immortal words "I was in such and such a shop and they said you have to sign this". No I dont and I wont.

If the social welfare, local nightclub, bank wants proof your documents are real, they can check themselves. I dont verify copies and I dont do their jobs. Try reporting a crime to the social welfare and see what happens.

I cant verify your identity on an ML10 if I have never met you before in my life anymore than the bank can. I cannot verify your child lives with you at your house in another county unless I know you and said child. Again, how do I know and if the social wants to check, they can. Its part of their job.

And the golden rule which I still cant believe needs stating, you report crime ASAP. Not after the insurance company refuses to pay without a reference number. If it wasnt important enough to report at the time am I really expected to believe you will make a statement and go to court after the insurance has replaced your phone / laptop / tv / etc?

Esel · 13-03-2009 10:44pm

I thought all 999 Garda calls went to one C&C area (with multiple lines)! I have been in the habit of ringing 999 if I'm outside my local area (have their no. in my phone) if I see something nefarious going on - would not always be emergency material though. I would still probably be in the Dublin area though, and have never got any flak for the call. I have asked once or twice if it was OK to use 999 for these incidents and was told it was.

TheNog · 13-03-2009 10:59pm

esel wrote: »

I thought all 999 Garda calls went to one C&C area (with multiple lines)! I have been in the habit of ringing 999 if I'm outside my local area (have their no. in my phone) if I see something nefarious going on - would not always be emergency material though. I would still probably be in the Dublin area though, and have never got any flak for the call. I have asked once or twice if it was OK to use 999 for these incidents and was told it was.

All 999 calls go to C&C in Dublin alright but down the country we have our own 999 phones in district HQs.

Recently the 999 calls have been directed to the Divisional HQ then onto the appropriate distrct.
Anyone else's division do this?
I think its an awful waste of time and resources

johnnyskeleton · 14-03-2009 2:15pm

santosubito wrote: »

Not really. There is a standard 25 per cent remission for prisoners, except those serving an indeterminate sentence, ie life. Remission can be taken off you for disciplinary infractions, but's that's only a few weeks at a time. For example, Liam Keane was supposed to get out of POrtlaoise at a certain day last month, but it was delayed for a week or so because he had a bit of remission taken off him.
I think remission in Britain is 33 per cent. And in the north it used to be 50 per cent - may still be.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/prison-system/remission_and_temporary_release

Exactly, you are not automatically entitled to it, as some people like to suggest. It has to be earned by good behaviour. In practice, good behaviour means an absence of bad behaviour, but the rationale behind it is to keep order in prisons. Therefore, 25% remission makes sense to keep order, which a lot of people fail to realise when they complain about remission. Hence, I wish it was common knowledge that remission is not automatic but has to be earned.

santosubito · 14-03-2009 2:46pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Exactly, you are not automatically entitled to it, as some people like to suggest. It has to be earned by good behaviour. In practice, good behaviour means an absence of bad behaviour, but the rationale behind it is to keep order in prisons. Therefore, 25% remission makes sense to keep order, which a lot of people fail to realise when they complain about remission. Hence, I wish it was common knowledge that remission is not automatic but has to be earned.

No, no, it is automatic remission. Bits are shaved off for someone acting the bollox, but it is automatic.

Eru · 14-03-2009 4:13pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Exactly, you are not automatically entitled to it, as some people like to suggest. It has to be earned by good behaviour. In practice, good behaviour means an absence of bad behaviour, but the rationale behind it is to keep order in prisons. Therefore, 25% remission makes sense to keep order, which a lot of people fail to realise when they complain about remission. Hence, I wish it was common knowledge that remission is not automatic but has to be earned.

It is applied the day you arrive in the prisonn and then added back onto the sentence as your a bad boy so yes, it is automatic.

McCrack · 14-03-2009 4:22pm

I'm with johnny on this, remission is not an automatic right of any prisoner.

It has to be earned.

See 59 on Prison Rules 2007

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/prison%20rules%202007.pdf/Files/prison%20rules%202007.pdf

Eru · 14-03-2009 4:43pm

McCrack wrote: »

I'm with johnny on this, remission is not an automatic right of any prisoner.

It has to be earned.

See 59 on Prison Rules 2007

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/prison%20rules%202007.pdf/Files/prison%20rules%202007.pdf

All thats doing is giving the minister the authority to reduce sentences which have been handed down. means nothing in this arguement.

Another way, if I arrested you and got you sent you to jail before you commited the crime would you believe you earned and deserved that sentence? Nope, you would see it as recieving something automaticaly. Now, apply that to the entire population and you have automatic sentences. IN prison you apply remission on arrival to every prisoner. Exact same thing and for the record, I dont consider not commiting crime as 'earning' anything. I consider commiting crime as 'earning' more jail time.

Its the same with wages. I get paid AFTER I have actually done the required activity not on arrival at my workplace. Either way its promised to me the difference in when its applied.

I also dont get paid BEFORE I have worked the hours and have EARNED the cash

McCrack · 14-03-2009 4:57pm

Yes but that is the basis upon which a prisoner is granted remission. Good behaviour allows the Minister to provide for remission for good conduct up to 1/4 of the total sentence. This has always been my understanding and I have never told anybody it's guaranteed because it's not.

It's earned. It's not an automatic right.

TheNog · 14-03-2009 5:30pm

have a look at this dated January 09 from Dermot Ahern

No change to automatic sentence remission
watch listen Thursday, 29 January 2009 22:31

The Minister for Justice has said he will not change the system where all prisoners have an automatic right to one-quarter remission on their sentences.

Following the perceived lenient sentencing of two serial sex offenders in the last week, Dermot Ahern said he shared the public's concern about such people being on the streets.

However, he said he could not interfere with the independence of the courts.
Advertisement

Mr Ahern said that he was introducing a programme to tag sex offenders upon release and those on temporary release from prison, and that he would put out a tender for a pilot programme.

He also said if he abolished the quarter remission of sentences, he believed that judges would take this into account and apply sentences at the lower level.

'Remission is an incentive for inmates to behave themselves in prison', he said.

http://www.2fm.ie/news/2009/0129/prison.html

McCrack · 14-03-2009 10:05pm

That's a media article you have quoted, it's not authoritive and another example of the media reinforcing popular public belief that's incorrect.

In a strict legal sense remission is not guaranteed, a prisoner is not automatically entitled to it as a right. A prisoner is entitled to be considered for remission up to 1/4 of the original sentence but it's heavily dependant on the behaviour of the prisoner and the mood of the Minister.

14-03-2009 11:09pm

Remission is an automatic entitlement to a prisoner when sentenced by the courts,Except in certain cases i.e Life sentences or debtors or contempt of court . The " good behaviour" aspect is applied if a prisoner is subject to a disciplinary report AFTER coming to prison where he/she can be punished for a disciplinary matter by having remission taken off their sentence up to a period of 14 days. Remission is not added as the prisoner serves his /her time. They don't earn time off their sentences if they behave . They serve up to their full sentence if they break the rules by losing their remission.

parsi · 14-03-2009 11:15pm

Eru wrote: »

If the social welfare, local nightclub, bank wants proof your documents are real, they can check themselves. I dont verify copies and I dont do their jobs. Try reporting a crime to the social welfare and see what happens.

I cant verify your identity on an ML10 if I have never met you before in my life anymore than the bank can. I cannot verify your child lives with you at your house in another county unless I know you and said child. Again, how do I know and if the social wants to check, they can. Its part of their job

So what is Joe Public to do when caught between Social Welfare who hold the purse-strings and the Garda who holds the cell keys ?

Perhaps the Garda should sign the form and proceed to inform his/her superiors and ask them to get onto DSCFA rather than turning away some poor bloke who was dispatched to get a form filled in order to claim his stamps.

Dan I Am · 15-03-2009 4:27am

timmywex wrote: »

The garda overtime bill;

Most peple dont understand what a waste of garda resources the courts are!

Essential and all that but having over half of an areas cars parked outside the court isnt great usage, nor is having gardai on overtime sitting in court waiting for paddy zulu's case to be called knowing fully it will be adjurned.

Surely the court system shoudl say a rough time that a case will be dealt with so everyone doesnt have to be there at ten in the morning!

Paddy Zulu? Does that mean Irish citizens with KwaZulu heritage?

Whitewater-AGS · 15-03-2009 8:55am

parsi wrote: »

So what is Joe Public to do when caught between Social Welfare who hold the purse-strings and the Garda who holds the cell keys ?

Perhaps the Garda should sign the form and proceed to inform his/her superiors and ask them to get onto DSCFA rather than turning away some poor bloke who was dispatched to get a form filled in order to claim his stamps.

Your missing the whole point here. As already stated its not my job to certify your passport,licence,degree as being real copy of the orginal and i cant 100% certify who you are if i dont know you and i'll just state this again a commissioner of oaths WILL certify documents but at a cost thats part of his/her job not mine.

parsi · 15-03-2009 1:07pm

Whitewater-AGS wrote: »

Your missing the whole point here. As already stated its not my job to certify your passport,licence,degree as being real copy of the orginal and i cant 100% certify who you are if i dont know you and i'll just state this again a commissioner of oaths WILL certify documents but at a cost thats part of his/her job not mine.

The point is that one arm of the State is telling Joe Public to go to another arm of the State to perform certain tasks.

So why can't these two arms of the State get together and agree the proper course of action ?

I feel for Joe Public shuffling from pillar to post in order to get his dole sorted out.

Putting it another way: An issue has been identified in that folk are being incorrectly told to go to the barracks to get stuff sorted out. As an Organisation surely there should be a collective response to this issue (education of the other organisations whatever) rather than having a Groundhog day every day due to legions of folk traipsing in to get forms signed/verified and whathaveya.

(Educating the banks and phone companies may be a harder task....)

Eru · 15-03-2009 6:32pm

parsi wrote: »

So what is Joe Public to do when caught between Social Welfare who hold the purse-strings and the Garda who holds the cell keys ?

Perhaps the Garda should sign the form and proceed to inform his/her superiors and ask them to get onto DSCFA rather than turning away some poor bloke who was dispatched to get a form filled in order to claim his stamps.

Not my job and I only do my job now because thats what Joe Public expects of me, no more no less.

Why cant Joe Public address the situation considering its HIS dole claim? Why cant Joe Public engage his brain and ask in the dole office why do I need the Gardai? Or in the bank? Or when he gets the letter asking him? Or in fact and I know this is crazy, actually read the documentation they have and check who can certify something and where you pay tickets? Its in big bold writing!

Sully · 15-03-2009 7:07pm

Whitewater-AGS wrote: »

Dont call me sir i'm not a school teacher and dont call me officer I dont work in a prison, Garda is fine though.

Been told the opposite myself. Some take offence to that term.

Please when coming to a checkpoint have your window down cause if you roll up to me and stop with the window up i see this as being very rude and will check every aspect of your car and yourself

If in a traffic queue, fair enough but in a lot of occasions there is no need. I rarely do it because any time I pass a checkpoint they just check tax and insurance then wave me on.

CharlieCroker wrote: »

If your approaching a checkpoint and a Garda puts his hand up for you to stop, don't stop 10 feet away from him and expect him/her to walk up to you.
Doing that for 50 different cars can be fairly annoying.

Agreed. I think its that some people freak out.

Though, there are times when I slow down, turn down my lights and the guards are waving me down to let me know they are present. I would have assumed they noticed I recognised them when I slowed down, turned down the lights and even gave a small flash of the lights to acknowledge. Slightly bugs me

TheNog wrote: »

Yes this is a big one folks.

999 phone calls are for emergency life/death/serious injury calls only.

May I also add life/death/serious injury that concerns human life not the "my dog is dying" call I had last week!!!!

Agreed. I can recall two incidents though - one where a guard on TV said to contact his station with any information related to a murder (I think, some incident anyway) by calling 999. Another I was assaulted, knew the suspect but he was hiding from the guards. He called 999 to hand himself in.

Eru · 15-03-2009 11:20pm

Sully wrote: »

Been told the opposite myself. Some take offence to that term.

To being called Garda? seems strange to me, its our title. Could be worse though, I know a certain female who has been addressed Sir on more than one occasion

Sully · 16-03-2009 12:49am

Eru wrote: »

To being called Garda? seems strange to me, its our title. Could be worse though, I know a certain female who has been addressed Sir on more than one occasion

Yup. Apparently if you address some members like that they dont see it as a friendly "hello" and rather a small dig. Iv always been friendly to members of the force since growing up around them and knowing a lot (of course I have came across many not-so-friendly guards which wont put me of the force completely, but I can see why it does for others!)

DeVore · 16-03-2009 2:43pm

Sully wrote: »

Yup. Apparently if you address some members like that they dont see it as a friendly "hello" and rather a small dig. Iv always been friendly to members of the force since growing up around them and knowing a lot (of course I have came across many not-so-friendly guards which wont put me of the force completely, but I can see why it does for others!)

Now, um... could you, you know, could you see how that might be, eh, well, *cough*, a touch confusing for us aul General Publicans!

DeV.

Esel · 16-03-2009 4:18pm

Sully wrote: »

Yup. Apparently if you address some members like that they dont see it as a friendly "hello" and rather a small dig.

Try 'Sargeant'?

A little flattery, and all that......

deadwood · 16-03-2009 6:36pm

Sully wrote: »

Been told the opposite myself. Some take offence to that term.

Eru wrote: »

To being called Garda? seems strange to me, its our title.

Sully wrote: »

Yup. Apparently if you address some members like that they dont see it as a friendly "hello" and rather a small dig.

It's all in the tone.;)

A guard was driving down a country road and met a young lad on a bike coming towards him. The young lad shouts "PIG!" at the guard.
"I'll do that cheeky fecker" fumes the guard who then proceeds around the next bend and crashes the patrol car as he swerves to avoid a stray pig in the middle of the road. It's all in the tone.

standclear · 16-03-2009 10:31pm

Not strictly emergency services but when handing back change/looking for a light/asking if they are real guns to a soldier dressed uniform please don't say "arn't yis all supposed to be deaf?" and join in smirking with the ten other people in the shop/garage etc..we have probably heard(yep..heard) that 'joke' already today!:rolleyes:

coolinblue · 16-03-2009 10:43pm

Eru wrote: »

To being called Garda? seems strange to me, its our title. Could be worse though, I know a certain female who has been addressed Sir on more than one occasion

ha ha i have worked with fair few of them!!!

but have to say am a looker myself!!:D

controller · 17-03-2009 10:15pm

vote4pedro wrote: »

Didn't s.3 of the 1990 Criminal Justice Act repeal capital murder, and even when it did exist (and as it stands under s.3 in its modern day form) the garda had to either be on duty, or be acting in the course of their duty?

Are you for real? You demand people show you such deference that they must have their window rolled down in advance, and yet also complain if someone rather politely calls you sir? Talk about acting a Billy Big Bollokks...

First Para : Hey Vote4Pedro, you are spot on there. Section 3 of The Criminal Justice Act 1990 covers this offence. The penalty is forty years imprisonment and twenty years for an attempt which was the penalty which existed previously (minus the death sentence!

)

Second Para: Ya, I have to say I can understand why you got your back up over that one. Each senario is different and the last thing you want is to antagonise a member of the public, it's meaning I thing has been clarified at this stage though.

johnnyrotten · 17-03-2009 10:43pm

gdamedic wrote: »

another one heard was "My dole pays your wages"

REPLY:"My Pension Levy pays your DOLE":mad:

coolinblue · 17-03-2009 10:51pm

joke!

OhNoYouDidn't · 17-03-2009 11:19pm

so can you **** in a Garda's hat?

:P

coolinblue · 17-03-2009 11:26pm

would like to see you try

not in mine you wont only have d 1!

OhNoYouDidn't · 17-03-2009 11:28pm

coolinblue wrote: »

would like to see you try not in mine you wont only have d 1!

sounds like a sponsored GOAL challenge!!!

Soul Stretcher · 17-03-2009 11:38pm

pvt.joker wrote: »

When we're in the chipper, 90% of the time it's getting prisoner meals, so no need for the smart comments.

Great thread btw.

I'm an ordinary civilian. This caught my interest. Do prisoners really get to order takeaways - using Gardai as a courier service ?

Would it be better to have a mini-food cupboard in Garda Stations - with Weetabix, Porridge, bread and the like. The prisoners can then purchase this from the State - wouldn't be expensive. I'd rather see them living a more spartan life as opposed to American Burger and Curry Chips.

Also... what a complete waste of a Garda's Time. In fact I think its a humilation of the Gardai involved. I was happier when I thought they were buying it for themselves !!:D

Things you wish were common knowledge.... but aren't!

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