Garda: getting a call at the end of your shift?

Random · 10-03-2009 08:53PM #1

What happens if you're 10 mins from the end of your shift and you get a call. You get there and you go through whatever you go through and you arrest the guy.

I'm assuming you get overtime automatically for whatever time it takes you to sort this situation out etc etc and that you don't just have to work for free? (like some people may be familiar with working salary jobs ...)

Tails142 · 10-03-2009 09:11PM

Havent you seen any of those films, where the cop is on his last day, and just before he is due to finish up and retire, he takes one last call which results in his death... (usually because he has handed in his gun)

It's the same principle, never ever take a call within the last 30 minutes of your shift! Plus most of our garda dont even have guns to begin with, so its DOUBLE JEOPARDY!!

pa990 · 10-03-2009 09:17PM

Random wrote: »

..........
I'm assuming you get overtime automatically ...)

LOL

my oh my..

Random · 10-03-2009 09:20PM

Funny comments and jokes about guns and films aside lads ...

Educate me please pa990, it's why I posted!

CLADA · 10-03-2009 09:35PM

Your assumption is more or less correct.

The oncoming shift may be in a position to relieve you from whatever task you are tied up with, but if it's a prisoner to be processed etc.. you will be paid for whatever extra time is involved.

timmywex · 10-03-2009 09:40PM

Basically it would depend on the urgency of the call and if the oncoming shift was there and nearly ready to go. Same would apply to ambulance service. Its sods law, a call will always come in if youve somewhere to go after your shift

Our man in Havana · 10-03-2009 10:10PM

I would always leave those calls to the day shift. We got feck all sleep as it was.

TheNog · 10-03-2009 10:15PM

It depends on the call really. If you arrested a fella for something stupid like S6 public order but he wasnt drunk, then the Super would probably be onto you that you should have dealt with it by summons and not incur OT. However if it was something a bit more serious then teh Super (at least my Super) wouldnt mind at all. Its the nature of the job really. My example below is rare in my district but does happen from time to time.

Me and a colleague arrested 2 fellas each at 9.45pm for theft (it was happening) and was supposed to finish at 10pm. All 4 were held under Section 4 and interviewed, fingerprinted, photographed. We got finished with them at about 3.30am. The unfortunate thing was we were on the changeover from lates to earlies so after 2hrs sleep we were back on duty again. Thankfully the morning was quiet.

deadwood · 10-03-2009 11:08PM

TheNog wrote: »

Me and a colleague arrested 2 fellas each at 9.45pm for theft (it was happening) and was supposed to finish at 10pm.

Reminds me of a story I heard about a guard strolling back to Store Street about to finish work approaching 2 o'clock on a Sunday.
Hearing a call to look out for a known shoplifter who had relieved Dolphin Records of some L.P.'s, he spotted his quarry strolling out of a side street with his swag bag. He arrested his man and interviewed him over the following Sunday overtime hours at huge expense to the exchequer, 52% taxes notwithstanding.

Anyway, the court case came and our master criminal was fighting the case tooth and nail as there was a question of the appropriate caution being administered . . . or not, as he alleged.

Pal took the stand and gave an account of his movements that day including the L.P.s he had just been given by a man in a pub.

"And what, exactly, did the guard say to you when he arrested you?" asked counsel.

The put-upon citizen pipes up "De poleeceman grabs me and sez to me 'come here ya good thing, three hours Sunday!"

DeVore · 11-03-2009 01:33AM

LPs? 52% Tax? Ahh Deadwood, you are showing your age

But I have a serious question for Nog... arrested at 10pm and you werent finished until 3:30am? Does it really take 5.5 hours to process a case like that?!? Its not that I doubt you its just that I'm thinking about all that wasted man hours... surely (I hate that word) there is a more efficient way of handling these things?

DeV.

Our man in Havana · 11-03-2009 06:24AM

I had arrested a lad one Monday morning at 0750 for using a stolen credit card. Biggest mistake I ever made. It was a straight forward case nothing complicated, perp admitted the crime. The American legal system can move at speed at times and this chap ended up going to straight to the courthouse to be arraigned that morning.

Now being a Monday morning at the court meant that all the stuff from the weekend was backed up on the list. I was there until gone 1500. I didn't get a cent for my trouble with my shift having finished at 0800. What made things worse was that I was back in work that night at midnight. :eek:

pa990 · 11-03-2009 09:27AM

I nabbed a pretty bad 49, with 30min to go till end of shift.

did the whole routine.. etc

When i claimed for the OT, i was asked "Who sanctioned the OT?"

if it wasnt sanctioned.. its not being paid ..

i ended up taking toil.

deadwood · 11-03-2009 10:26AM

DeVore wrote: »

LPs? 52% Tax? Ahh Deadwood, you are showing your age

But I have a serious question for Nog... arrested at 10pm and you werent finished until 3:30am? Does it really take 5.5 hours to process a case like that?!? Its not that I doubt you its just that I'm thinking about all that wasted man hours... surely (I hate that word) there is a more efficient way of handling these things?

DeV.

DeV,
L.P.s are making a comeback!

On the detention times (I can do serious too), the interview process is a very labour intensive process. Discussions on Boards flow more easily than interiews due to the requirement to write everything down.

Its a bit like this-
Young social deviant in interview getting everything off his chest: "So, meself, whammo, zammo and bammo went into the bank. I had the gun. It was all my idea. I put the gun through the hatch and told the woman to hand over the money . . . .(5 minutes later) . . . and we drove back to the spot where we buried Shergar"

Guard, tongue out, writing: "Whoa, there. So Zammo, z - a - m - one m or two?"

Jane5 · 11-03-2009 10:38AM

Hi there,
Just stumbled across this thread (ironically after a 28 hour shift!). I am an NCHD (junior doctors although 5 years postgrad at this stage). There is a lot of talk about working hours and EWTD and overtimes and such recently in the media and I was just a bit curious about Gardai working conditions- after all, if the basic is that low, and it is a 24-7 service like medicine, than based on the way the Government seems to handle things I would reasonably assume that there must be issues with the hours and work conditions like there is in the health service.

I in fact saw an article-I think it was in the Irish Times-attacking the Gardai and their overtime which I thought was in VERY poor taste. The basic starting salary sounds low when you look at the risks and responsibility involved in the job. I certainly couldn't do it. Certainly any overtime a garda earns is well deserved and I think their basic pay should be higher-they do after all put their lives in danger to guard the public!

What are the working hours like for Gardai? I have a friend who used to go out with a garda and often when I complain about my hours she tells me about his and it sounds just as bad if not worse sometimes. Is it true also that you cannot engage in any form of industrial action?
Jane

mcguiver · 11-03-2009 02:09PM

First at scene of a nasty killing a few years ago, 10 minutes left in the shift where we were so busy all day we hadnt time for a break. 16 hours later I got hime, totally wrecked. (24 hour shift... the nearest I got to a break was a bottle of water from a fire officer)

Or worse still you lift a drug dealer, detained for a few days, they get food/rest/exercise while you don't!

People moan when they see our overtime figures, but most of the time we have no choice. If I'm involved in an incident I can't clock out and go home. Try planning a night out/weekend away etc.

Getting paid overtime is at the descretion of the local Super, many due to tight budgets are giving T.O.I.L. (time off in lieu).

deadwood · 11-03-2009 02:27PM

DeVore wrote: »

But I have a serious question for Nog... arrested at 10pm and you werent finished until 3:30am? Does it really take 5.5 hours to process a case like that?!?

Should have mentioned - the prisoner is entitled to rest at night too, so 5.5 hours isn't unusual.

Then the paperwork starts.

DeVore · 11-03-2009 03:06PM

deadwood wrote: »

DeV,
L.P.s are making a comeback!

On the detention times (I can do serious too), the interview process is a very labour intensive process. Discussions on Boards flow more easily than interiews due to the requirement to write everything down.

Its a bit like this-
Young social deviant in interview getting everything off his chest: "So, meself, whammo, zammo and bammo went into the bank. I had the gun. It was all my idea. I put the gun through the hatch and told the woman to hand over the money . . . .(5 minutes later) . . . and we drove back to the spot where we buried Shergar"

Guard, tongue out, writing: "Whoa, there. So Zammo, z - a - m - one m or two?"

Cant you record this on tape??

I'm not sure I should ask any more questions or I will end up trying to fix the Gardai Siochana!

DeV.

deadwood · 11-03-2009 03:13PM

DeVore wrote: »

Cant you record this on tape??

I'm not sure I should ask any more questions or I will end up trying to fix the Gardai Siochana!

DeV.

It's all recorded (on 3 VHS tapes, for some reason, they were already outdated when the machinery was installed - dvd and hard drive memory are the work of the devil).

We're still required to keep a written record.

This should be trashed out with any interested political/legal/judicial/civil liberty group. Every time they speak, the commissioner should keep stopping them every few words and start writing!

Aw, why didn't I think of that a few years ago! (I'll be keeping a close eye on the GRA rep who uses it in the news.)

11-03-2009 04:41PM

deadwood wrote: »

It's all recorded (on 3 VHS tapes, for some reason, they were already outdated when the machinery was installed - dvd and hard drive memory are the work of the devil).

We're still required to keep a written record.

Irishtown has two or three nice interview rooms that they can't use as they have DVD Recorders for the interviews but as the law states that the interview has to be recorded on "tape" they can't use them.

TheNog · 11-03-2009 05:00PM

DeVore wrote: »

But I have a serious question for Nog... arrested at 10pm and you werent finished until 3:30am? Does it really take 5.5 hours to process a case like that?!? Its not that I doubt you its just that I'm thinking about all that wasted man hours... surely (I hate that word) there is a more efficient way of handling these things?

DeV.

Yeah it did take 5.5 hrs and that was a rush job cos we didnt want to extend the time as that would mean calling the Super at 3am. He would not be happy about that.

Everything we do from taking their name, to placing them in a cell, interviewing, photo & fingerprints to release and giving their property all has a procedure. The longest task was as Deadwood says is the interview cos each question and answer has to be written down. We ended up with 3-4 pages for each prisoner during the interview which took nearly an hour each.

Having said that the after work probably takes longer by the time you get the witness statements and injured party statement and then you type up the statements, creating file, sending file up to Sergeant who sends it onto the Super who sends it onto the DPP who reads it, sends it back for clarification and goes back through the same process to me. I then answer the question and send it back up the channels to the DPP again who agrees with my recommendation for prosecution. But hang on a minute we're not finished yet cos we then create summons, have them stamped (old way of doing it), sent them off for service and a member serves the summons.

Going to court is a whole other minefield again cos if the suspects dont plead guitly it will be adjourned for hearing hopefully on the first date. If you are lucky thats what will happen. In one case which happened in 2007 I went to court 4 times before it was heard in November 08. That was 4 times I sat there from 10am to 4pm without my case being called and me being paid OT on 3 occasions for it. Cant really blame the courts cos there is just so many cases a judge can get through but it is an awful waste of time, resources and money.

DeVore wrote: »

Cant you record this on tape??

I'm not sure I should ask any more questions or I will end up trying to fix the Gardai Siochana!

DeV.

The law is there for us to use a free speaking interview (without having to write anything down) but it hasnt been implemented yet. Ive no idea why not though

deadwood · 11-03-2009 05:06PM

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Mutz · 11-03-2009 05:07PM

DeVore wrote: »

Cant you record this on tape??

I'm not sure I should ask any more questions or I will end up trying to fix the Gardai Siochana!

DeV.

Dev, the reason we cannot just use the audio visual tape is because of the legal caution we are obliged to give a suspect:

"You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so but anything you do say will be taken down in writing and may be given in evidence"

Its a pain in the a$$ but you get used to it. Its all procedure and it has to be done.

eroo · 11-03-2009 06:08PM

Some great insight into AGS arrest and detention procedures.. thanks lads!

timmywex · 11-03-2009 06:17PM

Can the wiritng up of interviews be done after the interview?! While looking at the tape or whatever? Just thinking if things got heated during interview, and the defendant was blurting out aloada things, you wouldnt really stop him/her and risk him/her not saying what you want!

TheNog · 11-03-2009 07:22PM

timmywex wrote: »

Can the wiritng up of interviews be done after the interview?! While looking at the tape or whatever? Just thinking if things got heated during interview, and the defendant was blurting out aloada things, you wouldnt really stop him/her and risk him/her not saying what you want!

Im no expert here but Id reckon it has to be written down there and then.

cushtac · 11-03-2009 09:31PM

The memo of interview has to be contemporaneous.

pa990 · 11-03-2009 09:55PM

contemporaneous |kənˌtempəˈrānēəs|
adjective
existing or occurring in the same period of time : Pythagoras was contemporaneous with Buddha.

jt123456 · 12-03-2009 12:57AM

Mutz wrote: »

Dev, the reason we cannot just use the audio visual tape is because of the legal caution we are obliged to give a suspect:

"You are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so but anything you do say will be taken down in writing and may be given in evidence"

Its a pain in the a$$ but you get used to it. Its all procedure and it has to be done.

hahaha hope you take a little more care than that when making an arrest.

"...but whatever you say will be taken down in writing..."

ScubaDave · 12-03-2009 04:41AM

I need to check a few statements!

seanybiker · 12-03-2009 05:07AM

jt123456 wrote: »

hahaha hope you take a little more care than that when making an arrest.

"...but whatever you say will be taken down in writing..."

Wonder if someone could get off with something on that little technicality lol

deadwood · 12-03-2009 01:48PM

timmywex wrote: »

Can the wiritng up of interviews be done after the interview?! While looking at the tape or whatever? Just thinking if things got heated during interview, and the defendant was blurting out aloada things, you wouldnt really stop him/her and risk him/her not saying what you want!

Picture yourself in court. You're sitting in the box and the defence is combing through your conmet, comtemp, contepomi, the notes you wrote down in interview in beautiful handwriting. Then they have a wee look at the interview tape and see timmywex sitting there looking gorgeous, shooting the breeze with the local master criminal, with his lovely new pen sticking out the top of his pocket!

Garda: getting a call at the end of your shift?

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