2 Dead several others shot outside Army base Antrim

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 04:53PM

prinz wrote: »

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Did the British army arrest 2000 people without trial during internment in the troubles, and only 100 of these were Protestants? Yes.
quote]

And ever think about how many lives that saved? A huge majority of those interned were involved in subversive activities. As far as I'm concerned being interned by the British Army is preferable to being murdered by one faction or another, or letting them loose on the streets to butcher other innocent people.

Oh yes that's why they locked up so many catholics!!!! No protestants were involved in subversive activites were they! No biased reasons at all!

I know many protestants up here who wouldn't be half as biased as you. Do you really believe all that?

prinz · 09-03-2009 04:53PM

On another note, given that the stated aim of these subhuman scum is the destruction of THIS state, as well as the United Kingdom as a union, would you be as happy to see them gun down two young Irish lads collecting their pizzas, outside the Curragh Camp? Or should we not be here either? After all they don't recognise the Republic of Ireland, and have made a habit of murdering our soldiers and gardaí in the past when it suited.

prinz · 09-03-2009 04:55PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

prinz wrote: »

Oh yes that's why they locked up so many catholics!!!! No biased reasons at all!

No, they locked them up because they were involved in criminality. In doing so they saved countless lives, including those they interned. That's called logic.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 04:57PM

prinz wrote: »

Care to expand on that? As an honours law and politics graduate I take exception, (including a thesis based on extradition and in particular extra-ordinary rendition re Northern Ireland) so go figure yourself

For an educated man, you should be able to evaluate a situation non-judgementally. You're letting your own views get in the way.

Duffers · 09-03-2009 04:58PM

Quite a few of you types coming out of the woodwork, massively going off topic and ignoring the facts here. This was a crime with no basis in politics or the future of northern Ireland. To even suggest it can be justified by trawling through history is to align yourself with murderers. Happy with that?

Nodin · 09-03-2009 04:58PM

prinz wrote: »

Care to expand on that? As an honours law and politics graduate I take exception, (including a thesis based on extradition and in particular extra-ordinary rendition re Northern Ireland) so go figure yourself

The appeal to authority. Its the auld dog for the hard road.....

prinz wrote: »

And ever think about how many lives that saved? A huge majority of those interned were involved in subversive activities.

As it was internment without trial, you've no proof of that. We do know that a great many from the civil rights movement were interned, and that beatings and ill treatment were commonplace. It's fair to say that it produced far more support for "subversive activities" that it ever prevented.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 04:59PM

prinz wrote: »

On another note, given that the stated aim of these subhuman scum is the destruction of THIS state, as well as the United Kingdom as a union, would you be as happy to see them gun down two young Irish lads collecting their pizzas, outside the Curragh Camp? Or should we not be here either? After all they don't recognise the Republic of Ireland, and have made a habit of murdering our soldiers and gardaí in the past when it suited.

Prinz.

Listen to me.

I said I don't like the British Army.

I said I do not like the IRA.

I said I did not approve of the killings.

Where in any of that did you get that 'I am happy' that the british soldiers were shot.

So asking 'would you be as happy if it were two irish lads' is a bizarre question.

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:00PM

(A) It's not bias, it's called being rational. The Republic of Ireland is a state, we have an army, that army has a right to be stationed where it wants. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is also a state, if units of the army is stationed in Northern Ireland so be it. They didn't deserve what happened to them.

(b) I never said the British Army were innocent of anything. Of course elements within it are as guilty for innocent lives lost and broken as any of the terrorist groups. Fact.

(c) If they saved one innocent life, by interning people including the gunmen, bombers, kidnappers etc [ and innocent people who were also interned ] then I see that as a success. No matter what side they were on. Lock them up and they are no danger to anyone including themselves - again being rational.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 05:02PM

Duffers wrote: »

Quite a few of you types coming out of the woodwork, massively going off topic and ignoring the facts here. This was a crime with no basis in politics or the future of northern Ireland. To even suggest it can be justified by trawling through history is to align yourself with murderers. Happy with that?

Hi Duffers,

I know it is going off topic a bit, but I think it is a good discussion to get going. It is an important subject.

I too condem the killings, and severely hope there are no retaliations, as that would be the death knell.

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:03PM

Nodin wrote: »

As it was internment without trial, you've no proof of that.

Proof? Another quality comment. You take hundreds of terrorists off the streets, and you can't concede that lives were saved because of that?

Dyr · 09-03-2009 05:04PM

Can we intern you to save innocent people from reading your posts? That'd be great.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 05:06PM

prinz wrote: »

(A) It's not bias, it's called being rational. The Republic of Ireland is a state, we have an army, that army has a right to be stationed where it wants. the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is also a state, if units of the army is stationed in Northern Ireland so be it. They didn't deserve what happened to them.

(b) I never said the British Army were innocent of anything. Of course elements within it are as guilty for innocent lives lost and broken as any of the terrorist groups. Fact.

(c) If they saved one innocent life, by interning people including the gunmen, bombers, kidnappers etc [ and innocent people who were also interned ] then I see that as a success. No matter what side they were on. Lock them up and they are no danger to anyone including themselves - again being rational.

Just your point A there, you will find that England really hardly cares about Northern Ireland at all. And Northern Ireland is seperate form England, Scotland and Wales in most things: politics, healthcare, all the important things, so I don't see why they have a right to be here really.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 05:07PM

Bambi wrote: »

Can we intern you to save innocent people from reading your posts? That'd be great.

Here's a simpler idea, If you don't like the posts don't go into the thread.

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:07PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Where in any of that did you get that 'I am happy' that the british soldiers were shot.

So asking 'would you be as happy if it were two irish lads' is a bizarre question.

By many many references to the British Army not needing to be in Northern Ireland, and using the past to attempt not to justify but condone their acts as understandable in the context of the North.

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:11PM

Bambi wrote: »

Can we intern you to save innocent people from reading your posts? That'd be great.

I hope that gets post of the day. Made me

anyway. Domino's is sh!te, but you dont deserve to get killed for ordering it.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 05:13PM

prinz wrote: »

By many many references to the British Army not needing to be in Northern Ireland, and using the past to attempt not to justify but condone their acts as understandable in the context of the North.

*Sighs*

I'm amazed how you've rationalised that?

I said in my first posts I don't agree with the killings.

I then said I also think the British army should leave.

Some-one then said this would make the situation worse

And I said No, the situtaion was at its worst, back when the army were patrolling the streets.

Im not in any way using the past to justify the shootings!!! Cop on to yourself! I'm very sad that these young men were shot, but I still don't like the British army, and I think that they should leave.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 05:13PM

prinz wrote: »

I hope that gets post of the day. Made me anyway. Domino's is sh!te, but you dont deserve to get killed for ordering it.

I think she was directing it at you and me :eek::D

Bottle_of_Smoke · 09-03-2009 05:18PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Just your point A there, you will find that England really hardly cares about Northern Ireland at all. And Northern Ireland is seperate form England, Scotland and Wales in most things: politics, healthcare, all the important things, so I don't see why they have a right to be here really.

Whether England cares or not is neither here nor there. Northern Ireland is part of a Union of four countries. The majority of native(anyone who's got ancestry there the last 300 years

) citizens in Northern Ireland feel that way and I'd imagine most foreigners want to be part of the Union too.

I'm living in Northern Ireland, a very Unionist area, perhaps 90% Unionist, the overall council area about 75% Unionist. This place is British, the people are British. Whilst I might have had republican fantasies when I was a child I'd stand by the locals if anyone tried to make the place Irish

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:22PM

Meh, I dont see any reason for them to leave. Especially now. Hell they were all packing up to move on anyway. Compared to what it was the British Army presence now is almost nothing. So let them get on with the job of dismantling and moving on. If they want to stay, they stay. They are the army of the country. Why not.

The B.A. were on the streets because of the situation, not the other way around.

Lets agree to disagree on that...

or else settle things to RIRA way.

midlandsmissus · 09-03-2009 05:25PM

prinz wrote: »

Meh, I dont see any reason for them to leave. Especially now. Hell they were all packing up to move on anyway. Compared to what it was the British Army presence now is almost nothing. So let them get on with the job of dismantling and moving on. If they want to stay, they stay. They are the army of the country. Why not.

The B.A. were on the streets because of the situation, not the other way around.

Lets agree to disagree on that...

or else settle things to RIRA way.

I'll shake hands with you on that! An interesting discussion prinz thanks

the_syco · 09-03-2009 05:28PM

The funny hting is: by shooting the Brits, the RIRA has guaranteed that the Brits will stay around for a while longer. As it'll give the RIRA volunteers, you'd wonder does RIRA actually need the Brits to stay, otherwise they'd loose any meaning for their existance?

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:29PM

Ah I dont see Northern Ireland as being substantially different a constituent part of the Union as Scotland or Wales, so one could use the same argument to say the British Army has no right to be in Scotland, or Wales, or England,......... where did they ever come from anyway, with no right to be anywhere in the UK.

All I know is that I'd rather have the British Army patrolling my street than the R.I.R.A. (and friends) anyday.

Irlbo · 09-03-2009 05:30PM

Glad they are dead,will send a message that Brit soldiers areant welcome on Irish streets,Tiocfaidh ar la,saoirse go deo

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:34PM

the_syco wrote: »

The funny hting is: by shooting the Brits, the RIRA has guaranteed that the Brits will stay around for a while longer. As it'll give the RIRA volunteers, you'd wonder does RIRA actually need the Brits to stay, otherwise they'd loose any meaning for their existance?

That's exactly what they were doing.It was a savage attempt to attract recruits, especially because of current dissatisfaction in the old Provo's for what the deputy-co-vice-understudy-overseer-first minister-in law mcguinness and mr adams have been doing. They have been guiding their old comrades in arms away from the Troubles, the RIRA pulls this stunt to lure them back. You can be sure there will be an investigation from that side too. Like I said at the beginning, whoever carried this out better hope the police get to them first. I have a feeling there will be some 'disappeareds' in the near future, and this will not be spoken about again.

Fratton Fred · 09-03-2009 05:39PM

Nodin wrote: »

There was collusion with loyalists, the Dublin-Monaghan bombings....

Funny thing about the trooubles, there is a lot of things that have been said so many times they have drifted into folklore.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

You're completely wrong there. There was an inital cover up, during which the british army announced that they shot the individuals "after they found a massive explosive in the car"

The English government later admitted that there was NO EXPLOSIVES found at all. Look it up.

The European court of human rights ruled that it was an unlawful killing.

Get your facts right before you post.
.

You might want to get a few facts right. Firstly, as you appear to be a bit confused, there is no such thing as the English government.

Secondly, the european court found that the SAS used excessive force, not that they were unlawfully killed. It dismissed the claim for compensation by the families because the three were engaged in terrorist activities

Lastly, the IRA admitted that the three were there "On Active Service".

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Just your point A there, you will find that England really hardly cares about Northern Ireland at all. And Northern Ireland is seperate form England, Scotland and Wales in most things: politics, healthcare, all the important things, so I don't see why they have a right to be here really.

Please, find out a bit about the UK before posting any more.

prinz · 09-03-2009 05:39PM

Irlbo wrote: »

Glad they are dead,will send a message that Brit soldiers areant welcome on Irish streets,Tiocfaidh ar la,saoirse go deo

It was an entirely counter-productive move, dreamed up by the same braindead berks as the above.

javaboy · 09-03-2009 05:42PM

prinz wrote: »

It was an entirely counter-productive move, dreamed up by the same braindead berks as the above.

Prinz banned for personal abuse.

Irlbo banned.

Note: No discussion of moderator decisions on thread.

Irlbo · 09-03-2009 05:56PM

prinz wrote: »

That's exactly what they were doing.It was a savage attempt to attract recruits, especially because of current dissatisfaction in the old Provo's for what the deputy-co-vice-understudy-overseer-first minister-in law mcguinness and mr adams have been doing. They have been guiding their old comrades in arms away from the Troubles, the RIRA pulls this stunt to lure them back. You can be sure there will be an investigation from that side too. Like I said at the beginning, whoever carried this out better hope the police get to them first. I have a feeling there will be some 'disappeareds' in the near future, and this will not be spoken about again.

The RIRA terrified the provos when it emerged,it contained half of the IRA's most senoir,dedicated and well trained members,they had the support of alot of the brigades accross the Country particulary in Dublin,Cork,Louth,South Armagh and East Tyrone,if Omagh hadnt of happened they could have taken the Provos place

Fozzie Bear · 09-03-2009 05:57PM

Irlbo wrote: »

Glad they are dead, will send a message that Brit soldiers areant welcome on Irish streets, Tiocfaidh ar la, saoirse go deo

That's just disgusting. Regardless of it being said seriously or in jest. Disgusting.

prinz wrote: »

It was an entirely counter-productive move, dreamed up by the same braindead berks as the above.

Calling someone who is publically taking delight in the deaths of two people a "Berk" is pretty bloody mild. I can think of several more deserving labels for him but that of course would result in me being banned.

I know which of the above posters I'd be banning.....

Biggins · 09-03-2009 06:04PM

Irlbo wrote: »

Glad they are dead,will send a message that Brit soldiers areant welcome on Irish streets,Tiocfaidh ar la,saoirse go deo

Possibly a troll and/or advocating violence on the forum and on the country.

Either case - not wanted here on this island soil!

Says a lot when they only now number a 100+ on an island of millions!

The murderers speak only for themselves - no one else.

2 Dead several others shot outside Army base Antrim

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