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ML or GP
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Think we were more pointing out if you go down that route then you'll see that England p1ss all over the ML league host nations in terms of international competitiveness. They'v won a WC, been in another final while Scotland was the only team that has clubs playing in the ML that go through to the knock outs.
In 07 the mediocre English after 4 years of humiliation, often at our hands, made it to the final. And then there's us and Wales... :P
So yeah, you're not entirely wrong.
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Good debate , enjoyed it! Think I've proven my point. There's alot of conjecture and canard posts that hold little weight.
The only thing you've proven is your clueless.One of the funnier comments was that international competition is a bad way to judge how good the teams are in comparison to each other. I mean on what other basis can a teams status be judged , perhaps a dance off or a lively discussion between the players would suit better. Why have competitive rugby matches at all.:)
How excactly does international competition prove which league is better? You do realise foregins play in both leagues and play vital roles in all the major ML & GP teams that do well in the HEC?
Look at leinster, they'd have no OH if it wasnt for foreigners, a pretty crucial position in rugby, just like how a tight head is. Munster always struggled because they had no backs, bring in 3 imports and they have been doing excellent. Not to mention the foreign members of Wasps and Lecister.The performance of the ML teams in the HC is indisputable, that is 40 % of the ML teams being in the top eight in europe..... which is a record and one which the GP hasn't ever achieved.
Even from the PC you can see that two of the welsh teams are in the top four of english and Welsh teams.
So HC is the be all and end all of judging teams? English teams have won it more then ML, they've had more teams appear in semi-finals, they've beaten more ML teams this season already is the competition. whats the points in having 4 teams make it through the group stage if only 1 makes it any further? We'll find out how all the teams do soon enough.The ML is in existence about 8 years and had nine welsh teams in it's inception. It's moved on immeasurably from that day and has gone from strenght to strenght year on year to be at the position it's in this year.
Based on? The ML have had 3 teams make it through the last 3 years to the 2nd round the same as the English but the English have had two make it to the semi's while ML has only had 1 team. They managed to make 4 go through this team thanks to frances poor performances.Inversley the GP is on a downward spiral. I would rate it as the third best european league now. It can't afford to hold onto it's best players and with the continued devaluation of sterling I would expect this trend to continue .
How is GP on a downward spiral? According to your logic of juding teams on HEC cup qualifiers France are clearing the nation on a downward spiral with only having 1 team qualify, so which is? You really shouldnt use the HEC as a way to "prove" that the ML is the better league then completely ignore it to say the GP is worse then the Top 14 because it suits your points.They'll probaly have to get rid of the salary cap and apportion more of the money from the RFU to teams with english national team rugby players . Either way it'll take a good bit of restructuring before it can improve.
Why does it need to improve? Yet again they had 3 teams qualify for the second round, something they have always done so I dont see how that is the sign of a disimprovement. You could argue how the salary cap will increase players leaving but I think nearly everyone will agree that when it comes to the international side the French will be the ones to suffer from an influx of foreign imports.0 -
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Chucky the tree wrote: »The only thing you've proven is your clueless.
How excactly does international competition prove which league is better? You do realise foregins play in both leagues and play vital roles in all the major ML & GP teams that do well in the HEC?
Look at leinster, they'd have no OH if it wasnt for foreigners, a pretty crucial position in rugby, just like how a tight head is. Munster always struggled because they had no backs, bring in 3 imports and they have been doing excellent. Not to mention the foreign members of Wasps and Lecister.
So HC is the be all and end all of judging teams? English teams have won it more then ML, they've had more teams appear in semi-finals, they've beaten more ML teams this season already is the competition. whats the points in having 4 teams make it through the group stage if only 1 makes it any further? We'll find out how all the teams do soon enough.
Based on? The ML have had 3 teams make it through the last 3 years to the 2nd round the same as the English but the English have had two make it to the semi's while ML has only had 1 team. They managed to make 4 go through this team thanks to frances poor performances.
How is GP on a downward spiral? According to your logic of juding teams on HEC cup qualifiers France are clearing the nation on a downward spiral with only having 1 team qualify, so which is? You really shouldnt use the HEC as a way to "prove" that the ML is the better league then completely ignore it to say the GP is worse then the Top 14 because it suits your points.
Why does it need to improve? Yet again they had 3 teams qualify for the second round, something they have always done so I dont see how that is the sign of a disimprovement. You could argue how the salary cap will increase players leaving but I think nearly everyone will agree that when it comes to the international side the French will be the ones to suffer from an influx of foreign imports.
OOh chucky, ....your first comment was a bit harsh... I do have feelings you know..
THe HC is an international club competition by the way. The debate is about how good the leagues are relative to each other presently.
I look forward to the quarter finals of the HC..... and competitive rugby between the relavant leagues is how I would compare them ...and yes...a dance off or lively debat just wouldn't cut it for me
I would think that the CL will have al least 2 if not three teams in the semis....
and having 40% of the CL in the top eight teams in europe is pretty exceptional...
I'll cut and paste my comments regarding the demise of the GP, but you're really going to have to try to keep up ....
I was commenting on the GP losing players which is a recent phenomenon and would't have affected the no. of teams the GP got into the knockout stages this year
The GP is falling apart and as players contracts end they will leave the GP for greener pastures. This won't change unless the value of sterling does. The GP simply can't afford the better players. Martin Johnson is very worried about this prospect
''Martin Johnson sent out a veiled threat to England players eyeing a lucrative move to France that their international prospects would be less rosy if they were to follow the three Wasps players, James Haskell, Riki Flutey and Tom Palmer, across the Channel.''
Players such as Geraghty, and even Wasps' Danny Cipriani, have yet to confirm their plans.
It's as simple as that the fact that the GP can no longer afford the best players and more worringly for the GP they can't even hang onto their english national players even under threat of losing their english team paycheck..... so what does that say about players not getting payed a top up by the english rugby union??0 -
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Cipriani has signed for Wasps...do keep up old boy...
Touche
...you're plagairising my comments again....
That was a cut and paste of a comment made previously for chuckys benefit.
At least the GP can hold onto some of the english national side .......or is cipriani getting a first team place these days....:eek:0 -
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OOh chucky, ....your first comment was a bit harsh... I do have feelings you know..
THe HC is an international club competition by the way. The debate is about how good the leagues are relative to each other presently.
I look forward to the quarter finals of the HC..... and competitive rugby between the relavant leagues is how I would compare them ...and yes...a dance off or lively debat just wouldn't cut it for me
I would think that the CL will have al least 2 if not three teams in the semis....
and having 40% of the CL in the top eight teams in europe is pretty exceptional...
I'll cut and paste my comments regarding the demise of the GP, but you're really going to have to try to keep up ....
I was commenting on the GP losing players which is a recent phenomenon and would't have affected the no. of teams the GP got into the knockout stages this year
The GP is falling apart and as players contracts end they will leave the GP for greener pastures. This won't change unless the value of sterling does. The GP simply can't afford the better players. Martin Johnson is very worried about this prospect
''Martin Johnson sent out a veiled threat to England players eyeing a lucrative move to France that their international prospects would be less rosy if they were to follow the three Wasps players, James Haskell, Riki Flutey and Tom Palmer, across the Channel.''
Players such as Geraghty, and even Wasps' Danny Cipriani, have yet to confirm their plans.
It's as simple as that the fact that the GP can no longer afford the best players and more worringly for the GP they can't even hang onto their english national players even under threat of losing their english team paycheck..... so what does that say about players not getting payed a top up by the english rugby union??
So is the GP better then the Top 14 because of the HEc results?0 -
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