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Learn Gaelic

135

Comments

  • #62
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Harlee Tangy Mustache wrote: »
    Thread is full of "I hate ireland because... well no real reason, I just do" therefore everything to do with Ireland. It's laughable...
    I don't see much examples of people saying they hate Ireland, just people arguing legitimately with people who say "anyone who says Irish is useless is a bad person". If people are of the opinion that Irish is useless, if they have no interest in learning it... well that's up to them. They shouldn't have Irish forced on them - even if it's part of their heritage. Some people aren't interested in their heritage/nationality.
    javaboy wrote: »
    Bit harsh there. Some people don't have a flair for languages so they'll probably only really be fluent with the one they learn from childhood. When they grow up and become old enough to form opinions on things like the colonial oppression of Ireland et cetera, why shouldn't they be allowed rue the fact that English is one of our official languages? Why do they need to be fluent in Irish?
    javaboy, why moan about English being one of this country's official languages, other than as a "fuk da Brits" statement? And yes, people who moan about English being this country's official language while at the same time happily taking all the advantages it has to offer, should become fluent in Irish. They want Irish to be the only official language after all.


  • #63
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    A lot of people here are dissing Irish because they think that a) the "supporters" of the language are a bit too militant/whatever or b) the teaching infrastructure at school was a complete pain in the arse.

    Fair enough, but these aren't really good enough reasons to diss the language itself. For most people in Ireland the topic is a hot potato but for the thousands of people who speak it as a first language then its just a part of everyday life, they will happily speak it at home, at work and at school without the shame/stigma/weirdness that other people have about it.

    As for getting rid of Irish because everyone* speaks English anyway, well why don't they abolish the Swedish language? 72% of Swedes speak English after all... my point is that the Irish language is one of the main (and only) things that makes Ireland culturally distinguishable from the rest of the Western world. (*as an aside, not everyone born here speaks english - I recently came across a gaelgóir in Connemara who did not speak a word of English)

    I went for a pint in Arus na nGaél in Galway last night and heard the barman converse with his customers in English, Irish and French. Which I think was awfully cool.


  • #64
    Adiboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭Adiboo


    Dudess wrote: »
    LOL. Anyone who moans - in English - about English being an official language of this country should be made, under threat of torture, study Irish until they're fluent (such people generally have a bare pass in ordinary level Leaving Cert Irish) and should only use English when absolutely necessary (i.e. not on a web forum to complain about English).

    I'm Canadian. Didn't have to learn Irish in school when I came here. Last year I started learning Irish, because I wanted to. I replied to this thread in English, well because this forum is in.....English.:)


  • #65
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    acontadino wrote: »
    but france has a large economy

    It also has a high cost of living. I've no wish to live there. No requirement to learn their language. For me, learning French is useless - just like for 99% of the rest of Ireland who aren't ever going to need to use it..
    acontadino wrote: »
    as does germany, learning these languages allows you to be more flexible and broaden your horizon.

    There is nothing in Germany for me. No wish to live there, no need to learn the language.
    acontadino wrote: »
    since we have free movement in the eu, it makes much sense in my opinion to learn these languages

    If you are planning to move to one of the countries, sure.. But I don't, so it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me to learn German, French, Spanish or any other foreign language. I'm quite content living in Ireland.

    If someone plans on looking for work in France or Germany, then by all means - go learn the language. I'm not saying they are useless where required. But don't try and tell me that those languages are more useful than Irish, especially when 95% of the population will remain living in Ireland, contently for the rest of their lives. I don't buy into it, and the same people who peddle that nonsense will probably remain living in Ireland themselves.


    Dudess wrote: »
    LOL. Anyone who moans - in English - about English being an official language of this country should be made, under threat of torture, study Irish until they're fluent (such people generally have a bare pass in ordinary level Leaving Cert Irish) and should only use English when absolutely necessary (i.e. not on a web forum to complain about English).

    The official language of Ireland is Irish. I think what you meant to say was "working language", and by most part - English is the working language.

    I don't think anybody, or at least - not many people are moaning about English being used in society. I think what people take issue with, myself included is when somebody ponders the thought of learning Irish, but instead of getting encouraged, get the typical "Oh don't bother with that gaylick shíte, French is much more useful!" How about a "Ah fair play to ya, best of luck with it". But no, as per usual - the typical anti-gaeilge bandwagon pounce and try to belittle people who actually want to put effort into it.

    And last, I agree with your point on those who babble on about Gaeilge, and who have spare time at hand to learn it, but choose not to. Thankfully, I got up off my hole and did something about it and studied the language. But I have no doubt that some just don't have the time to learn it. That's understandable.
    Dudess wrote: »
    I'd disagree. If a fluent Irish speaker runs into medical difficulty, they'll have English to ask for help. If a French or Italian person without English finds themselves in a similar situation, someone with French or Italian willing to act as interpreter could prove a life-saver.

    They would speak in English, because they have the option of doing so, being bilingual speakers. No other reason. It doesn't change Irish being their day to day language.


  • #66
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Adiboo wrote: »
    I'm Canadian. Didn't have to learn Irish in school when I came here. Last year I started learning Irish, because I wanted to. I replied to this thread in English, well because this forum is in.....English.:)
    Oops, sorry! But why is it unfortunate?


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  • #67
    Wanda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Wanda


    I am not a teacher and I communicate daily in work through Irish.


    Statistically there are more Irish speaker outside the Gaeltacht then there are in the Gaeltacht.


  • #68
    Adiboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭Adiboo


    Dudess wrote: »
    Oops, sorry! But why is it unfortunate?

    Because it's the native language of this country. It's always unfortunate when a language effectively dies out, which is happening here.

    It's also unfortunate that so many Irish people have turned their backs on the language our ancestors spoke.


  • #69
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    No, why is it unfortunate that English is an official language?


  • #70
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Adiboo wrote: »
    Because it's the native language of this country. It's always unfortunate when a language effectively dies out, which is happening here.

    It's also unfortunate that so many Irish people have turned their backs on the language our ancestors spoke.

    I'm always shocked at how virtually all foreign people appreciate this while the majority of Irish people couldn't seem to give a toss at the homogenisation of our culture and the sterilisation of the things that make us unique.


  • #71
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    acontadino wrote: »
    madness. when you see the begrudgery that people have for the language its not really their fault we may be defensive.
    IMHO if people start to get defensive over a language that is supposed to be the official language of a country, it tells me that official it may be, used to any degree it is not. I can honestly say I have heard Irish being spoken anywhere maybe a handful of times in my life. If I had a quid for every time I heard it I would be a very poor man. Sod defensive paddywhackery and the usual whiny impotent ranting that all too often bedevils this country and be more active. Use it every day, make people feel included not excluded, make the language, oh I dunno, here's a thought an active method of communication, not a stick to hammer ones supposed "irishness" home.


    The day I hear Irish being spoken regularly on the streets of this country, spoken and including all facets of Irish culture, is the day I'll see it as a living breathing language and not an excuse for more mealyminded attitudes that too often comes along for the ride on the back of its' "cultural heritage".

    It's not as if it's not been done before and without it being rammed down peoples throats either. Basque was mercilessly subdued and it remains a living language and testament to a culture that refused to give it up and it's a lot older than Irish and has faced equal censure. Indeed up to the 80's it did in Spain. Latvian and other languages of the former eastern bloc were also heavily censured in favour of Russian and in less than 20 years have become fully living and functional languages spoken by millions. Welsh is another example closer to home. Hey maybe we need to be invaded again?

    Now I hate to break it to the chuckies and those who love their conspiracies, the "hated Engerlish" are gone. Gone for a fair oul time too. That may have once been an explanation, it is no longer an excuse.

    Now what is it about our national character(if there is such a thing) or the promoters of this language that is supposed to be part and parcel of our heritage, that the guts of 100 years of promotion has left it in such a state?

    And it is. You can link all the census stats you like, but the fact is if you could only speak Irish, you would be utterly boned in this country outside of some very small areas. Remember that TG4 programme? Where the chap whose name escapes, drove around the country trying to obtain simple services as Gaelige? He was screwed. Pretty much the only place he found speakers of the language was in some areas of Ulster and they were limited in number.

    So I ask the questions not of the language. After all it's just another form of communication. I ask the questions of those who have promoted it, have wasted countless millions on it, have wasted countless days and years vainly trying to teach it to our children and continue to do so with little practical success.

    Yes the odd surge occurs like the current popularity of the Irish schools, but members of my own family in the 50's also learned entirely through Irish at the time. Only one of whom has a barest grasp of the language. It's not that new an idea. TG4 will help certainly, but I cant honestly see by how much.

    If it turns out that the people, yes the Irish people have no pressing need of it and it remains a culturally interesting footnote to our society, well that's that.

    People speak a language because they feel included in it and the culture behind it. Irish simply doesn't have that power or attraction for the majority of the people on this island. They may pay lip service, but little Irish will pass those self same lips.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #72
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Wibbs, it looks from your post that you are simply choosing to ignore the fact that Irish is a living language. I don't know where you live, but within 15 mins drive of where I am there are any number of shops, pubs etc where irish is spoken. Its not done for the tourists, its not done for any other made-up reason, its just how life is. And you seem to be ignoring that this is the way things are for a lot of people.

    Irish society has no "pressing need" for Irish in the same way that the human body has no "pressing need" for entertainment (as food, water and oxygen will surely suffice). If Irish was gone tomorrow the country would be a less colourful place, and for those who use it as their first language every day (the real people that really exist, I assure you), well I'm sure they wouldn't be too happy about their primary means of communication disappearing.


  • #73
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    cornbb wrote: »
    Wibbs, it looks from your post that you are simply choosing to ignore the fact that Irish is a living language.
    I'm really not. That has just been my experience.
    I don't know where you live,
    Dublin so, obviously less of that around these parts.
    but within 15 mins drive of where I am there are any number of shops, pubs etc where irish is spoken. Its not done for the tourists, its not done for any other made-up reason, its just how life is. And you seem to be ignoring that this is the way things are for a lot of people.
    Gaelthact area? Fair enough. Of course in areas like that there will be people speaking it. Even in those areas I've heard English more. Do a fair bit of fishing and there are good spots in those areas so...

    I am not denying that Irish is spoken. I am not denying it is a living language for some. I am saying that for the vast majority of the Irish population it simply isn't. One could go through ones entire life as an Irish man or woman, a valuable member of society and a person who adds to the culture of this island without having to speak a single solitary word of it. It is spoken daily and fluently by a very small proportion of the population of this country, yet it lays claim to being our heritage and the official language of this country? It lays claim to resources thrown at it for many decades. It lays claim to be an official language of the EU, which considering the complication and expenditure was damn near farcical. You could also claim that the aforementioned Basque was the official language of Spain*, I would reckon the proportions would roughly match up. You could claim it, but you would be at best misguided and at worst daft.
    Irish society has no "pressing need" for Irish in the same way that the human body has no "pressing need" for entertainment (as food, water and oxygen will surely suffice). If Irish was gone tomorrow the country would be a less colourful place, and for those who use it as their first language every day (the real people that really exist, I assure you), well I'm sure they wouldn't be too happy about their primary means of cummunication disappearing.
    Actually communication is one of humanities most pressing needs. It pretty much singles us out as a species. We also psychologically need entertainment too. Man does not live by bread alone etc. Would we lose something if it died tomorrow? Of course we would. Like any skill or cultural signifier. Would we cease to be Irish? Would the vast majority of Irish people suddenly lose their identity? No to both.

    I wouldn't like to see it go personally. Not at all. I would like to see people being realistic about it though. On both sides. But if it's to do anything more than survive in small pockets of this country, well then something needs to change with the people who make up the majority who don't speak it.



    *before the pedants jump in as is common with this subject, I know it's an official language of Spain. One of four.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #74
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Gaelthact area? Fair enough. Of course in areas like that there will be people speaking it. Even in those areas I've heard English more. Do a fair bit of fishing and there are good spots in those areas so...

    Not only in the Gaelteacht, but in Galway city too. The Irish language is held in a different regard here to what it is in the rest of the country. I would go so far as to say that there is a stigma surrounding the Irish language among many Irish people, and that appears to shine through in this thread.
    I am not denying that Irish is spoken. I am not denying it is a living language for some. I am saying that for the vast majority of the Irish population it simply isn't. One could go through ones entire life as an Irish man or woman, a valuable member of society and a person who adds to the culture of this island without having to speak a single solitary word of it. It is spoken daily and fluently by a very small proportion of the population of this country, yet it lays claim to being our heritage and the official language of this country? It lays claim to resources thrown at it for many decades. It lays claim to be an official language of the EU, which considering the complication and expenditure was damn near farcical. You could also claim that the aforementioned Basque was the official language of Spain*, I would reckon the proportions would roughly match up. You could claim it, but you would be at best misguided and at worst daft.
    Actually communication is one of humanities most pressing needs. It pretty much singles us out as a species. We also psychologically need entertainment too. Man does not live by bread alone etc.

    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. If Irish is a living language for some people, doesn't that make it a living language full stop? I understand that you have issues with the funding that goes into Irish, the way it is taught etc, and I don't necessarily disagree with some aspects of that, but I'm curious as to why so many people are simply ashamed of the language? If people want to promote the use of the Irish language (e.g. via initiatives like Seachtain na Gaeilge) then why not let them at it, their attempts should not be labelled as "farcical", no-one is forcing you to speak Irish.
    Would we lose something if it died tomorrow? Of course we would. Like any skill or cultural signifier. Would we cease to be Irish? Would the vast majority of Irish people suddenly lose their identity? No to both.

    A large minority of people would suddenly lose their identity, and for the rest of us a large part of our cultural identity would be eroded away. There are very few other things that are unique to our culture (such as GAA, Irish music and dance, and massive alcohol consumption).
    But if it's to do anything more than survive in small pockets of this country, well then something needs to change with the people who make up the majority who don't speak it.

    In the last census over a million and a half people claimed to speak Irish. Its not a majority, and I understand that most of them probably don't speak it every day, but the mere fact that so many people claimed to speak it indicates that there is far more life to the language than you imply.


  • #75
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I don't know.
    A woman comes here from Nigeria and speaks English quite well.
    She interacts with other Irish people, rather than ending up as part of some little ghetto like some of her countrymen have done. Immerses herself in the culture so much so that she decides that she wants to learn Gaeilge and people still complain.

    I can only think of two reasons for this begrudgery.
    1. You resent the fact that a foreigner is more than willing to learn a language that you yourself struggled with.
    2. You would prefer to see the continued Americanisation of this country.


    There's a Gaelteacht region about 30 miles from where I live.
    I never knew of its existence until I drove through it on my way to a job one day. I actually thought for a second that I had taken a wrong turn and ended up in Galway. Then I remembered that I had only been driving for about 40 minutes.
    The Irish language is alive and well. It just doesn't live in Dublin.

    Apathy and begrudgery, while somewhat different to each other, will be the death of this country.


    Edit: Kudos also to the Canadian above.
    /too lazy to scroll up to get the name. Abido or something.


  • #76
    mairtinomarta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭mairtinomarta


    .


  • #77
    MIN2511
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭MIN2511


    Guys, i just want to learn the language not fight about French/Spanish. I have lived in Ireland for nearly 8yrs i might as well learn!


  • #78
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    cornbb wrote: »
    Not only in the Gaelteacht, but in Galway city too. The Irish language is held in a different regard here to what it is in the rest of the country. I would go so far as to say that there is a stigma surrounding the Irish language among many Irish people, and that appears to shine through in this thread.
    I would agree. It's considered backward and silly by many. Which says more for the promotion of it and the perception of many who speak it, than anything to do with the language itself. If I was trying to promote it, I would be asking those questions. If it is indeed such a part and parcel of our heritage, why is it rejected by so many? And it is.


    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. If Irish is a living language for some people, doesn't that make it a living language full stop?
    Yes and no. I think there is a cut off point in practical terms. If only 20 people speak a language fluently, it is technically a living language, but practically it is not. Clearly the scale of Irish language speakers is higher than that, but even there, how many are truly fluent. One issue I would have is the fluency of the language itself.

    OK lets say tomorrow I buckle down and learn Irish. Lets say I even live in an Irish speaking area and immerse myself in the language. I will never be fully fluent. It would be exactly the same as if I moved to say France and spent 20 years there living through French. Yes after 20 years I would be (I would hope:o) fluent in French, but a French man could tell that I wasn't French. So how is Irish any different? I would essentially be a foreigner in my own country. Which raises another point... How many of the kids today are being taught by non native speakers. The majority I would imagine. The first language of most Irish teachers would be English. So the kids are learning an homogenised version of Irish flitered through the tongues of non native speakers. If we take the French example, it would be like an area of France lost all it's French speakers and got in a load of Irish people who could speak "French" to teach them. It wouldn't really be French anymore. "real" French speakers would hear them as accented foreign types. You know what I mean? I'm genuinely curious about this too BTW.
    I understand that you have issues with the funding that goes into Irish, the way it is taught etc,
    I do. Major issues. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and the fact that a so called native language that is supposed to be part and parcel of our culture and wanted by us all, is in a way worse state in spite of that largely wasted investment over 90+ years. It speaks volumes for the countless muppets that have been in charge of its promotion.
    and I don't necessarily disagree with some aspects of that, but I'm curious as to why so many people are simply ashamed of the language? If people want to promote the use of the Irish language (e.g. via initiatives like Seachtain na Gaeilge) then why not let them at it, their attempts should not be labelled as "farcical", no-one is forcing you to speak Irish.
    I agree, but they are forcing me to pay for it through my taxes. They are forcing me and they forced my immediate ancestors to pay for something that should be universal in this country, but isn't. Why? because clearly successive Irish promoters couldn't organise a píss up in a brewery. Inept aint in it. A right wing English "comedian" who was fond of an "Irish" joke couldn't make this stuff up. The audience wouldn't believe it. Yet we as tax payers are supposed to buy this guff everytime a fool like O'Cuiv pollutes the airways and grabs at our wallets to promote yet another farcical notion. If anyone thinks the "An Dangain"(sp) fiasco wasn't farcical I suggest they get their bumps felt by a shrink and avoid heavy machinery.

    Its like the warnings on ciggies now in Irish. OK very nice, but it's like there exists two sections of society. One who can understand the warnings, another who some notion what one of the words means, and the rest who have no clue. The majority in fact. You really couldn't make this up. You would swear we were all throwin the cupla focal around but we're not. It's almost, like "shh we know you cant speak it and for the most part only care in the abstract. Sure if you actually cared we wouldn't have to push it, but you know sure isn't it our heritage and sure you don't mind payin for it do ye. Sure didn't the evil brits take it from us".


    A large minority of people would suddenly lose their identity, and for the rest of us a large part of our cultural identity would be eroded away. There are very few other things that are unique to our culture (such as GAA, Irish music and dance, and massive alcohol consumption).
    No danger of loss with the last one cornbb:D GAA didn't exist to any standard of rule 300 years ago or less. Irish music? Well the guitar and the fiddle are hardly native. The oilean pipes yes, the bodhran yes, but is anyone kicking off a reel on guitars and fiddles and banjos and tin whistles is any less Irish? Culture evolves. we no longer speak latin, norse, old english, old irish(and a few others), does this mean we're less Irish? Guitars and fiddles were melded into our culture and in their way became part of it because they were wanted and nurtured by the people and for the people. If Irish died tomorrow, yes it would be a loss, but it wouldn't make us less Irish, because if it dies, it meant we didn't need it to define ourselves.

    In the last census over a million and a half people claimed to speak Irish. Its not a majority, and I understand that most of them probably don't speak it every day, but the mere fact that so many people claimed to speak it indicates that there is far more life to the language than you imply.
    I would put good money that if you went around to each one of those million and a half, I would guarantee that the vast majority couldn't speak it fluently. I know of at least 5 people who put down they could, simply because they thought they should speak it as "Irish people", yet I'd have more Irish than 3 of them and I make no claim to speak it. It is an aspirational ideal, not a reality. What's worse it's an aspirational ideal that people make no effort to make a reality. Hence Irish is not the every day Lingua franca of this land.

    I would be asking why.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #79
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    MIN2511 wrote: »
    Guys, i just want to learn the language not fight about French/Spanish. I have lived in Ireland for nearly 8yrs i might as well learn!
    Dead right!:) Your accent speaking Irish would be well cool.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #80
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    MIN2511 wrote: »
    Am i mad or what....

    I want to learn Gaelic(Irish)...


    Serious about this.... I often wonder why most people don't use it





    Forgot to mention, classes must be free as too broke to pay for anything


    I seen Des Bishop interview a guy in New York just on the side of the street on the tv once. He was Korean, never been to ireland, spoke fluent Irish, said he just wanted to learn it. I thought t was pretty cool.


  • #81
    Carlotta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭Carlotta


    Thirdfox wrote: »
    English is an official language of this country.

    Actually, i think you'll find....."Irish is given recognition by the Constitution of Ireland as the national and first official language of the Republic of Ireland (with English being a second official language)."

    From Wikipedia, so it must be true.

    I want Ireland to be truly bilingual. I don't understand those who have such negative things to say about Irish. Must be protestants... *sniff*


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  • #82
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Wibbs - that thanks is for the length (Only some of the content ;) ). The way I look at it is that they use your taxes to write the pointless reports, and mine to translate them :pac:

    Fair play, go néirí an t-áth leat Min, check out the Gaeilge Forum, and once you get some Irish try Teach na Gealt. If you have ANY questions about Irish send them there!

    A lot of people in Ireland know, and like to speak Irish - I'm working this summer teaching Sailing through Irish! I have a lot of respect for anyone who moves to another country and actually enters into the culture of the country. Maith thú!


  • #83
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    My stance on it is: I'd hate to see it die, but I think there are enough people keeping it alive. I don't see a problem with a person not being interested in learning it, as long as they don't force that on others. And at the same time, their decision not to embrace it shouldn't be condemned by those who champion the language. I'm on the fence - if people say they think it's largely useless, then I agree. They're not wrong, to be fair. If the same people say though that it should be left to die, then I'd disagree strongly.


  • #84
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Dudess wrote: »
    I don't see much examples of people saying they hate Ireland, just people arguing legitimately with people who say "anyone who says Irish is useless is a bad person". If people are of the opinion that Irish is useless, if they have no interest in learning it... well that's up to them. They shouldn't have Irish forced on them - even if it's part of their heritage. Some people aren't interested in their heritage/nationality.

    In the leaving Cert NOBODY asked me if I wanted to do English. I hated the subject, scraped a C3 in it, didn't even count it.

    Fair's fair - either 'both', 'one of', or 'neither' should be the rule - I'm behind that. But I'm not behind forcefeeding English.


  • #85
    Thirdfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,105 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    Carlotta wrote: »
    Actually, i think you'll find....."Irish is given recognition by the Constitution of Ireland as the national and first official language of the Republic of Ireland (with English being a second official language)."

    From Wikipedia, so it must be true.

    I want Ireland to be truly bilingual. I don't understand those who have such negative things to say about Irish. Must be protestants... *sniff*

    Lol - I have a copy of the Constitution right beside me actually. And I think you'll find that nothing in my statement is wrong: English is an official language of this country. I never said it was the sole, or the first official language.

    Also, you'll find that our Constitution is written in both English and Irish, and if a dispute arises between the two versions the Irish version takes precedence. What isn't said is that the Constitution was drafted primarily in English and then translated into Irish so by all accounts the English version is the closest match to what the framers of the Constitution intended. Kinda ironic no?

    My point was directed at the poster who stated that s/he wanted to speak Irish because s/he wanted to speak the official language of the country. English is an official language of the country.


  • #86
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Cliste wrote: »
    In the leaving Cert NOBODY asked me if I wanted to do English. I hated the subject, scraped a C3 in it, didn't even count it.

    Fair's fair - either 'both', 'one of', or 'neither' should be the rule - I'm behind that. But I'm not behind forcefeeding English.
    Well as I was saying the other day, and this is slightly dragging things off topic, I think people should choose whatever they want to do in the Leaving (with the exception of a foreign language in case of the need for emigration). It's ridiculous people have to do English, Irish and maths.


  • #87
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Honestly, the culture of Ireland is not it's native language. At one time, it might have been, but tbh, we aren't known world wide for it. People the other side of the world don't even know its a seperate language from English. They do however know about the drinking culture of Ireland. Who doesn't? We're the drunks of the world.

    If gaeilge was actually alive, such that it was spoken in every part of Ireland on a day to day basis, the same way the English language is now... Then I'd consider it part of our culture.


  • #88
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Dudess wrote: »
    Well as I was saying the other day, and this is slightly dragging things off topic, I think people should choose whatever they want to do in the Leaving (with the exception of a foreign language in case of the need for emigration). It's ridiculous people have to do English, Irish and maths.

    But someone's wrong on the internet....

    I think we had a run-in over this topic before actually. Anyway - save it for another time (unless challengedmaster gets carried away)


  • #89
    Thirdfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,105 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    ^ The amount of foreigners who have said to me "Isn't Irish just English with the Irish accent?" is quite high actually (I then take the time to explain that no, we have our own native language too but that it's very rare to hear anyone speak it apart from some special regions of the country - throw in a "Dia duit" vs. "Hello" comparison to let it sink in that the two languages are completely different).

    I don't hate Irish, I think it's a nice thing to have - but for practical purposes it's not very relevant for our survival as a country (though an important cultural item).


  • #90
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Cliste wrote: »
    The way I look at it is that they use your taxes to write the pointless reports, and mine to translate them :pac:
    Now that's our culture that I'm proud of. Only an Irish person could look at it quite that way.:D

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #91
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    I think we should teach our children in schools (primary and secondary) in only Irish. This would keep the language alive. I wouldnt ban English but teach it as a secondary language like French or Irish is now. Also give free lessons to all Irish adults.
    Just my 2c:pac:


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