Cork Hurling Manager?

spillcoe · 16-02-2009 03:37PM

deise59 wrote: »

Since when does holding strong on your own beliefs make you such an unlikeable character? Like you say yourself, everyone is entitled to state their views. Just because you don't agree with what he's doing doesn't make him any less of a gentleman then you are.

Agreed, I think Gerald is wrong in staying in the position and is being used as a pawn in the county boards political games but there is no doubt that the man is a gentleman who doesn't deserve to have his character questioned.

Waylander · 16-02-2009 03:59PM

spillcoe wrote: »

Agreed, I think Gerald is wrong in staying in the position and is being used as a pawn in the county boards political games but there is no doubt that the man is a gentleman who doesn't deserve to have his character questioned.

I think both sides are using him as a pawn to be fair. the teams real issue if with FM, and I think their stance on Gerald is as much to have a stab at him as it is at Gerald.

spillcoe · 16-02-2009 05:36PM

Waylander wrote: »

I think both sides are using him as a pawn to be fair. the teams real issue if with FM, and I think their stance on Gerald is as much to have a stab at him as it is at Gerald.

Fair point.

evil-monkey · 17-02-2009 03:47PM

teednab-el wrote: »

And Do you know that the 09 panel were beaten by 12 points last night and by 9 points the week before? future stars?...not one of them would make Corks 2nd team. ffs

What are you talking about?? Many of the current team would have more than likely made it onto the senior panel in the future; Glen O'Connor etc... Or was Sean Og and co going to play on forever they were?? You do realise that the "heroes" on the 08 panel aren't immune to the normal human aging process??

teednab-el wrote: »

If he was a gentleman he would just step down like the Offaly manager..and that says enough about Ger to be honest.

Says the same about the players. I was just making the point that calling him a tramp, petty and a hypocrite was totally uncalled for.

teednab-el wrote: »

Everyone here is entitled to state their views.. and that should not be any concern of yours.

Not when those views are just insulting a person's character needlessly.

spillcoe wrote: »

but there is no doubt that the man is a gentleman who doesn't deserve to have his character questioned.

Exactly.

deise59 wrote: »

Even if the 08 panel come back, they can't go on forever. Some of them will be too old to play on in 2-3 years anyway. What would've happened then? More new young players will start breaking through the ranks. Thats how it works. And while I don't know the players themselves, I have no doubt in my mind that some of them do have the ability to play at a high level once they get the right experience.

Exactly. Teams move in cycles. Had this whole debacle not come about, a lot of these young guys would have eventually challenged for positions anyway. Unfortunately, they have been called upon to do so a lot earlier than should have been the case...

cruiserweight · 17-02-2009 03:54PM

buck65 wrote: »

3. Gerald Mc Carthy is a tramp. He is petty , insulting, hypocritical, manipulative. These players he ha insulted repeatedly have achieved more for Cork hurling than he ever did. He should have walked a year ago.
.

I have not had time to read through the entire thread but I hope that there are no more posts insulting people it adds nothing to the discussion. Please keep it civil and stay on topic people

evil-monkey · 18-02-2009 02:17PM

cruiserweight wrote: »

I have not had time to read through the entire thread but I hope that there are no more posts insulting people it adds nothing to the discussion. Please keep it civil and stay on topic people

Well said Cruiserweight. Thanks for that.

soundsham · 18-02-2009 11:32PM

evil-monkey wrote: »

What are you talking about?? Many of the current team would have more than likely made it onto the senior panel in the future; Glen O'Connor etc... Or was Sean Og and co going to play on forever they were?? You do realise that the "heroes" on the 08 panel aren't immune to the normal human aging process??

Says the same about the players. I was just making the point that calling him a tramp, petty and a hypocrite was totally uncalled for.

Not when those views are just insulting a person's character needlessly.

Exactly.

Exactly. Teams move in cycles. Had this whole debacle not come about, a lot of these young guys would have eventually challenged for positions anyway. Unfortunately, they have been called upon to do so a lot earlier than should have been the case...

do you not know what the 08 panel are looking for???

the want an open and transparent method of selection fot manager

i.e. not frank saying "ger its there for you if you want it"

thats all they want a system for the future not a dictator from the past present and for the future!!!

stick to the issue,which is a better system for all players of the future including the guy in red last sat.

FRANK OUT!!!!!

Orizio · 18-02-2009 11:33PM

Obviously this will go nowhere because the term 'democracy' is not part of the Cork County Board's dictionary but its nice to see some clubs trying to have their say.

Duhallow clubs to propose secret ballot

Club delegates in Cork’s Duhallow are set to propose a new secret ballot on the issue of Gerald McCarthy’s position as senior hurling manager in the county.

As the division in the county continues to rumble on, delegates of the division of Duhallow - which represents 17 junior clubs - are unhappy at the actions of their own county board delegates in relation to the issue and a secret ballot of all junior, intermediate and senior clubs could now be proposed.

According to Wednesday’s edition of The Evening Echo, Dulhallow’s county board representatives Brian O’Loughlin and Richard Murphy voted in favour of confidence in the manager but it emerged at a Duhallow board meeting on Monday that a number of club representatives were unhappy with that.

Furthermore, the former’s seconding of Bob Honohan’s proposal to vote, without the instruction from the clubs to do so, has also caused unrest.

With many clubs feeling that their voices are not being heard, Freemount’s John O’Flynn tabled a motion with regard to the secret ballot and this will be voted on at a meeting next Monday, a day before the next board meeting. It could see Duhallow’s county board delegates mandated to propose the secret ballot of every single club in Cork to be taken on the position of hurling manager.

One delegates was quoted by The Evening Echo as saying: “A secret ballot takes place for the election of county board officials. The issue has got to a stage where it’s so big now that every club deserves to have its say.”

But should the unhappy Duhallow delegates get their way, problematic waters still lie ahead. The proposal for the secret vote could yet be vetoed and Cork chairman Jerry O’Sullivan has said that he will not be taking any more motions on the issue.

Link.

Daysha · 20-02-2009 12:23AM

youtheman wrote: »

Haveyou see this clip on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfMFSU2zAW0

or just look up Rebelwars

BRILLIANT

A little part of me inside wants to re-edit that clip with the roles reversed :cool:

youtheman · 20-02-2009 12:30AM

Sorry bout that, having Major P.C. problems at the moment (or could be finger problems).

Daysha · 20-02-2009 11:48AM

The GAA's last-gasp efforts to broker talks between the 2008 Cork hurling squad and manager Gerald McCarthy have failed.

The GAA's Director General Pauric Duffy and the president elect Christy Cooney met with the players, Gerald McCarthy and the county board in talks that lasted almost 12 hours.

The striking players and McCarthy and the county board never actually came face-to-face during the talks, and no solution to the impasse was found.

The striking players are seeking the support of the counties clubs this weekend.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2009/0220/cork.html

evil-monkey · 20-02-2009 06:04PM

Where exactly is the lack of democracy in all of this?? People say that delegates are afraid, and not representing the views of their clubs. I know that this is not the case in my club, and a lot of Seandun clubs, but I certainly can't speak for all of them.

The players want democracy. But every time there is a vote, nobody seems to accept it as democratic. You can be sure if the result favored them, that all of a sudden they'd accept the outcome.

Is there anyone here whose club delegate is not doing their job correctly?? If there is, name and shame, or at least name the club, and tell me how it is that your delegate has ignored your views.

Orizio · 20-02-2009 07:02PM

evil-monkey wrote: »

Where exactly is the lack of democracy in all of this?? People say that delegates are afraid, and not representing the views of their clubs. I know that this is not the case in my club, and a lot of Seandun clubs, but I certainly can't speak for all of them.

The players want democracy. But every time there is a vote, nobody seems to accept it as democratic. You can be sure if the result favored them, that all of a sudden they'd accept the outcome.

Is there anyone here whose club delegate is not doing their job correctly?? If there is, name and shame, or at least name the club, and tell me how it is that your delegate has ignored your views.

If you were paying attention over the last few days, you would have noticed that numerous divisional sides and clubs have problems with the way their delegates acted, either ignoring their members expressed wishes or nto even consutling them in the first place. What exactly do you think the furore with Duhallow, Seandun etc is about?

People should follow this debate over at RebelGAA. One thing I have learned is that half of the clubs (the Junior ones) in Cork have only a tiny voting percentage (16%) and their votes are through their divisions. How exactly is fair that half the clubs in Cork have such a small amount of the vote? And if the CCB cares so much about democracy and the grassroots having their say why reject the Cloyne motion?

The answer is that Cork GAA is run by an incompetent, petty and undemocratic adminstration and led by unworthy figures (Frank Murphy, Bob Ryan, Ger McCarthy etc). It needs to be reformed and revamped, making it more democratic and creating an actually intelligent purposeful youth system, before we fall further and further behind the likes of Tipp and Kilkenny.

Orizio · 20-02-2009 07:07PM

Here is two...

Dulhallow’s county board representatives Brian O’Loughlin and Richard Murphy voted in favour of confidence in the manager but it emerged at a Duhallow board meeting on Monday that a number of club representatives were unhappy with that.

Alfie Boon · 20-02-2009 09:55PM

A nest of shagging rats the whole lot of them.
Who needs their crap anyway?
Those lads are always complaining about something or the other.
McCarthy is unwanted-He should go.
The senior 08 lads are finished everyway-retire please
Frank murphy is hated-bye frank

Theres a simple solution everyone.
No one gets the better of anyone and you have harmony.

GET A GRIP LANGERS AND SHAG OFF.NO ONE OUTSIDE OF CORK CARES ABOUT YOUR GRUDGES.IDIOTS.

I say peg them out on their ears and lets be finished with this b.s
There's more important things to be discussing.
UP THE CATS

smashey · 21-02-2009 12:10AM

Alfie Boon,

I was going to delete your post but I've decided to leave it as an example of what isn't allowed here.

That just earned you a month's ban.

For everybody else, please do not rise to the bait.

Orizio · 21-02-2009 03:15PM

I'm confused as to how Ger McCarthy could agree to that Croke Park solution without saying a huge **** you to the current '09 panel.

Daysha · 21-02-2009 03:23PM

Orizio wrote: »

I'm confused as to how Ger McCarthy could agree to that Croke Park solution without saying a huge **** you to the current '09 panel.

Because the 09 panel aren't idiots. They know they're only there because the 08 panel are not, and they also know that if an agreement is reached and the 08 panel return, they'll be on the way out.

Orizio · 21-02-2009 03:47PM

Considering the things said by Ger in favour of the current panel and what he has put them through, to jettison them all so easily seems pathetic. But don't worry, I know you won't agree.

Anyway, I have no doubt that this whole thing is coming to an end. The clubs will fail on Sunday, the 08 panel will disband, we will have a **** team for at least another 2 years, and a worthless adminstration 'running' Cork GAA. We're ****ed for the foreseeable future, basically.

Orizio · 21-02-2009 04:10PM

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Cork GAA is democratic when half of the clubs have practically no say in the running of the organisation? Evil monkey? Deise? Blackbelt?

BTW if anyone disputes the undemocratic and corrupt nature of Cork GAA and the CCB, then please buy the Irish Examiner and go to the Letter's section.

Orizio · 21-02-2009 07:06PM

Gardiner and Donal Og saying on the radio that they would never play under Ger, and that any talk of a comprimise to play under him is bull****. CCB doing a pretty impressive divide and conquer routine.

KerranJast · 21-02-2009 07:15PM

Yep classic CCB shenanigans to try and sow confusion. Anything to try and screw up the meeting between the 08 players and the club chairmen tomorrow.

Daysha · 21-02-2009 07:46PM

Orizio wrote: »

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Cork GAA is democratic when half of the clubs have practically no say in the running of the organisation? Evil monkey? Deise? Blackbelt?

I don't think I've ever said I agree with the runnings of the CCB, nor have I come out against them, simply because I'm not in a position to comment on the matter. I'm not a Cork man. They're not my county board. I can only go by what I read in the papers and on the forums.

I'm just judging the matter on how I've seen it from a neutral perspective the past few months. And the fact is I don't agree with the wishes of the 08 panel.

Is Ger McCarthy the greatest manager in the world? No.
Is the Cork County Board the best run in the country? From what I've read, no.
Are inter-county hurlers in a position to say who should and shouldn't manage the team? No.
Should inter-county hurlers strike because they don't agree with the choice of manager? NO!

There are ways of going about fixing difficulties. And mindless press conferences and statements fed through the media while the parties themselves can't even bring themselves to sit in the same room together is not one of those ways.

Both parties are at fault due to a certain level of stubberness, but if the players really feel their actions are justified because of the lack of "democracy" in the CCB, the way they've gone about fixing that democracy has done them no favours.

Orizio · 21-02-2009 10:47PM

As far as I'm concerned this goes beyond the 08 hurlers (and whether or not you like it, the players, in ALL sports have a say in their manager, in the sense that their feelings on the matter need to be respected, the CCB didn't do this and thus acted in bad faith), it goes to the very heart of how Cork GAA should be run, by dinosaurs from an alien generation like Frank Murphy and Bob Honohan (two men who did their very best to embarass the GAA on the Croke Park issue, for example) or by a new generation preceeding over a truly democratic organisation.

Of course the democracy of the CCB matters completely to your argument, since your belief in Ger's position lies in him being 'democratically' elected, which hinges on whether or not the CCB is a democratic entity, or an incompetent (not disputable, considering HQ are trying to babysit them) one abusive of its power. So this point...

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Cork GAA is democratic when half of the clubs have practically no say in the running of the organisation?

...is still very relevent.

Hitman Actual · 22-02-2009 01:05PM

deise59 wrote: »

Is Ger McCarthy the greatest manager in the world? No.
Is the Cork County Board the best run in the country? From what I've read, no.
Are inter-county hurlers in a position to say who should and shouldn't manage the team? No.
Should inter-county hurlers strike because they don't agree with the choice of manager? NO!

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here, deise59, yet I don't think it covers the ultimate grievance of the players- which is that after some pitiful appointment discussions the CCB ploughed ahead with the appointment of a manager that they knew the players had no confidence in, and in the full knowledge that it would cause problems. After following this for nearly 5 months now, that to me is the biggest issue in the whole sorry mess.

deise59 wrote: »

Both parties are at fault due to a certain level of stubberness, but if the players really feel their actions are justified because of the lack of "democracy" in the CCB, the way they've gone about fixing that democracy has done them no favours.

I agree with a lot of this as well, and ultimately it should come down to the clubs/delegates to highlight weaknesses in the system(s) and push for change. So I think it's good that the players are meeting with the clubs tonight, as at least it might put the onus back on clubs to take control of the issue, and wider issues in general.

But I still wouldn't be surprised if the players end up disbanding soon after tonight. Probably not straight away, but even if they do get some level of support, the CCB have said there will be no more motions on the issue. And I doubt they'll play under Ger Mc no matter what now- there's been far too much said on all sides. And it was also interseting to see Graham Canty with the three 'ring-leaders' (Donal Og, Gardiner, Sean Og) on the Six-One news last night. You can tell by their tone that things are really coming to a head now, and I think tonight is a serious milestone.

evil-monkey · 22-02-2009 02:49PM

Orizio wrote: »

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how Cork GAA is democratic when half of the clubs have practically no say in the running of the organisation? Evil monkey? Deise? Blackbelt?

BTW if anyone disputes the undemocratic and corrupt nature of Cork GAA and the CCB, then please buy the Irish Examiner and go to the Letter's section.

Sorry Orizio, hadn't been on in a day or two. At the risk of being flamed, I don't think that every club should have an equal say. There are a LOT of clubs out there that are very very small, and should not hold equal representation. For example, should Lough Rovers have as much as say as Blackrock?? I don't think so. I'm not saying the biggest clubs should have the biggest representation, but clubs should certainly not have a completely equal shout.

In my own club, the delegate listens to club members - club members that have something to say to them. Despite all these calls for democracy, you can be sure that AGMs are still sparsely attended. I reckon that half the people giving out about their club's delegate have never actually gone to the election of one. If there's 20 people at an AGM, and a delegate is elected, well the other 200 members in the club who weren't in attendance have nothing to complain about. They could have had their say had they wanted it.

Now I do accept this is not the case in all clubs; and in a lot of cases the delegate is put forward with a wink and a nod.

Anyway, moving on. I think the statement by the players as read by Jerry O'Sullivan yesterday has taken all credability away from their argument. They now claim that they don't have a problem playing under Ger as long as they can select a new coach and selectors that they are happy with. First the problem was with Ger, then Frank, now there's no problem Ger and it's down to the selectors...

Got the Echo today. Opinion it would seem has really gone against them after this one, particularly the media. While I know their proposal about the selectors was probably intended as a comprimise, the way they've phrased it has really made it look like they're just siting different reason after different reason for the strike.

Up to now I've been firmly behind Ger, but I did think that he couldn't come out of this for the good. Now I think the opposite, and it's the players who will definately suffer after releasing a statement that essentially contradicts themselves. Jerry O'Sullivan and Christy Cooney have reiterated this and expressed their confusion. Also, the players having openly admitted to wanting to pick the selectors?? I recall in 02 a pick sticking point was the players insisting that the manager picked his own selectors. They went on strike for that on got it. Now they are on strike again to change something that they brought into force. While I welcome their comments and see it as perhaps the breakthrough that might be needed to put all this to bed, it has done the players absolutely no favours whatsoever.

As for the players claiming they said no such thing in regards to all of the above, where did that statement that Jerry O'Sullivan read out come from - surely he's not just making stuff up?? I'm not calling the players liars, it could well be the board to blame here. But either way, someone is painting a very contradictory picture for us all, and I'd like to know who.

On a lighter note. I might have told ye this one already, and I'm sure ye've all heard it at this stage, but a guy recently said to me, "Had Frank Murphy been Russian, we'd have never heard of Stalin."

I liked that one so I did.

Orizio · 22-02-2009 05:27PM

Where did I say anything all clubs having an equal say? Oh wait, I didn't. You have an annoying habit of debating strawmans EM. I'm suggesting that half the clubs in Cork have some say, which they barely have right now.

If people pay their membeship fees, then they have a right to a say in how your club is being run. Saying you have to regurly attend AGM's to have a right to a say is a nonsense, and completely unfeasible for those of us who have jobs or uni.

While I agree that the 08 panels campaign has been poorly run and out-maneouvred, I fail to see how it changes the fact that Cork GAA is incompetently run and corrupt. Do you not agree that the whole adminstration needs revamping and democratising, and that the likes of Frank Murphy and Bob Honohan really need to **** off? Their embarassing to Cork GAA, and GAA as a whole.

Daysha · 22-02-2009 06:55PM

Orizio wrote: »

Where did I say anything all clubs having an equal say? Oh wait, I didn't. You have an annoying habit of debating strawmans EM. I'm suggesting that half the clubs in Cork have some say, which they barely have right now.

If people pay their membeship fees, then they have a right to a say in how your club is being run. Saying you have to regurly attend AGM's to have a right to a say is a nonsense, and completely unfeasible for those of us who have jobs or uni.

While I agree that the 08 panels campaign has been poorly run and out-maneouvred, I fail to see how it changes the fact that Cork GAA is incompetently run and corrupt. Do you not agree that the whole adminstration needs revamping and democratising, and that the likes of Frank Murphy and Bob Honohan really need to **** off? Their embarassing to Cork GAA, and GAA as a whole.

Regardless of our styles of debate Ori, at least we can say we've stuck by our opinion right from the start of this whole debacle. It's quite hard to justify our opinions to someone whose strayed from one side to the other the past few months, without fully giving a reason why. ie....

Orizio wrote: »

Meh, looks like I was wrong and everyone else was right.

Obviously I had a bit too much respect, or belief, in the Cork panel's, well, level of common sense. I was actually reading the Ben O'Connor interview a couple of days ago and taught what a steaming pile of irrational gibberish. Completely bereft of humility or respect for the people of Cork. I just hope the footballers see sense and tell the hurlers to feck off.

Let the squad retire, and start from scratch.

Orizio · 22-02-2009 07:12PM

I'm free to change my mind Deise. :rolleyes: I'm free to change my opinion depending on how I view the situation. I wasn't aware of quite how ****ty the CCB is and how badly Cork GAA is run, but i am now - hence the different point of view.

Now any chance of debating the points I made? No? Concede the point or debate it. Show me how you can justify the **** that is the CCB.

Daysha · 22-02-2009 07:42PM

Sorry, you must have missed my answer to that point, so i'll quote it again for you:

I don't think I've ever said I agree with the runnings of the CCB, nor have I come out against them, simply because I'm not in a position to comment on the matter. I'm not a Cork man. They're not my county board. I can only go by what I read in the papers and on the forums.

I don't need to justify anything the CCB does, nor do I need the criticise them. I'd be cheating myself if I just "fitted in with the crowd" by giving out about Frank Murphy like everyone else. I'm not going to side with the players just because others tell me the CCB is a poorly run committee.

Cork Hurling Manager?

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