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[article] Bugger Rugger: Why I totally hate schools' rugby, totally

  • 18-02-2009 08:02PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    Des Cahill was just talking about this piece...

    Bugger Rugger: Why I totally hate schools' rugby, totally
    Pain, heartbreak and sorrow - that's what rugby has brought Tom Humphries. Now he says the sport should be banned and driven underground
    From the Irish Times, 30 January 2001 and reprinted today


    Rugby people. Can't live with them. Can't shoot them. Mainly can't live with them. Can't afford to live with them. Haven't the bloodlines to live with them. Haven't the patience to live with them. Haven't the language skills to live with them. Haven't the desire even. Rugby people have always been college scarves and jutting jaws and silly songs I don't know the words of. C-A-N-N-O-T live with them.
    Now, a quick word before we start. Every time I write one of my patented, bitter and twisted chip on-the-shoulder social-cripple pieces about the rugby world, the same smug epistles hit the desk all the way from D4. They tell me (surprise!) that I have a chip on my shoulder about rugby. "You're like a little boy with his nose pressed up against the window - come on in and have a pinty for croying out loud." I know. I have a chip.
    Actually I like having a chip on my shoulder about rugby. It is my inalienable right. I will not have a pinty. Thonks. I am happy as I am. I don't like rugby and I work for The Irish Times. It's like being a day trader and working for Pravda. Listen to this. I have tried. I have reached out to rugby. I have gone forth in a spirit of understanding and fellowship and attempted to break down the cultural barriers between rugby and myself. For my troubles, I've had nothing but heartache and sorrow. Let me tell you something I've never told anyone before.
    Once, and I am disappearing into a witness protection programme after the next full stop, I played half a season of under-19 rugby with Suttonians. Next time, I'd choose to do my time in jail, as my co-accused did. Despite being a Gaelic player, and therefore able to do some things most rugby people cannot do - i.e. catch a ball, kick a ball, run etc - I was press-ganged into being a second-row forward. This is like choosing to do a heavy lifting job in your spare time. For a few months, I spent my time with my shoulder pushing the buttocks of other men and my arm reached up between their legs. Even after a lifetime in the Christian Brothers, I wasn't prepared for that. My ears were always red and sore and my shoulders ached, but sometimes, to take my mind off all that, the opposing hooker would kindly give me a kick in the face. That's how rugby people run the game and it's how they run the world.
    I thrived only in lineouts, those strange Masonic rituals wherein everybody uniformly mistimes their jump for some reason I couldn't initially understand. Clarification wasn't long in coming. After two clean catches, the person opposing you in the lineout would just reach across and pull your hair. Beats gravity every time. Hair-pulling wasn't a very manly thing to do, but neither was weeping: "Ref! Ref! He's pulling my hair." I learned to mistime my jump like everyone else.
    For a while, I tried to bring several different coloured pairs of shorts to games in the hope that having the same coloured shorts as the opposition might save my testicles from being squeezed and twisted as we lay in panting heaps somewhere on top of the ball. The biting and hair-pulling I could take. Ball-handling was a no no - even from teams we played regularly. (Note: In the GAA testicles don't actually exist - except as a metaphor for guts. If a sliotar should whicker à tout vitesse into your testicular area, causing the 29 other players on the field to wince and you to double over squealing like a stuck pig, somebody will run onto the field, pour some water down your neck, slap your buttock and say: "C'mon son you'll be grand in a minute." This at a time when you need a general anaesthetic.)
    Anyway it all finished between Suttonians and me one weekend when we played in a triangular tournament alongside the giants of the southside, Lansdowne and Blackrock. Now most of the team I played with were actually quite good at rugby and had won the Harry Gale Cup (no less) the previous year. This didn't save us from being treated like bumpkins on our venture across the river. It started with our kits, which were the same colours as Easons bags, and it went on all afternoon, no matter who we played. As luck would have it, on this Saturday morning we endured the sniggering of the Lansdowne chaps and beat them on the back pitch - in Lansdowne. This rightly fouled up the tournament. The plan had been that we would lose to Lansdowne in the morning and then obligingly lose to Blackrock in the afternoon, ensuring a Lansdowne v Blackrock play-off in Stradbrook the next day. Now, we yoiks would be going to Stradbrook. The story has a sad end. We met at noon the next day under Clerys clock. Maybe two of us weren't hungover. The others were pukey or giggly or both. The thought of perhaps beating Blackrock hadn't even kept them in for Saturday night. Why would it? They didn't hate Blackrock the way normal people do. They admired them. So we got pushed around Stradbrook for the afternoon and were beaten by a margin in the region of 60 points. In the second row it felt as if we were going to have our scrawny necks snapped like royal pheasants. For this, I had given up on a junior B football match with St Vincents?
    I was deeply ashamed. I never went back. Never told anybody except my spiritual advisor. He quit instantly.
    I gave rugby one more chance. Arriving in UCD and not knowing a soul, I put my name down when some jut-jawed, scarf-wearing, acne-free, pinty-type, lady-killing bastard announced that there was to be a class rugby league "to break the old ice, loike". I too would be an icebreaker! I filled out one of the little forms he gave out. I waited. The teams sheets went up on the lecture theatre wall. I skipped across like a happy little puppy. No T J Humphries listed. My eyes welled up. My heart welled down. I sought out the jut-jawed, scarfwearing, acne-free, gout-ridden, Dublin 4, bestiality-is-best-boys, pinty-type, lady-killing bastard and explained my position. Shome mishtake shurley, I said. His brow furrowed. "What's your name?" he asked. "Tom Humphries," I replied frankly. "Where'd you go to school?" he asked. "Fairview," I said. "Where's that?" he asked. (I should point out that his geographical ignorance was no worse than mine. (I got off the bus at RTÉ on my first day in UCD.) "Where the park is," I said helpfully. The park was in the news regularly then for gay-bashing incidents. "Well that's it," he said breezily. "The teams have all the 'Rock guys together, the 'Nure guys with the Belvo' boys, 'Zaga in with Clongowes, Mero with 'Knock and and so on. Roight? So sorry, but you lose out Humpho." "Oh," I said. I'd scarcely understood a word, but realised I had come within an ace of being saddled with a dumb rugger nickname all my life. I went forth and never sinned against my class or my people again.
    There were other sad days in rugby's spiteful jihad against me. I lied about rugby to get into sports journalism, pretended I loved it, but soon got found out. I misidentified Brendan Foley as Moss Keane at an old-farts charity game and didn't work again for three months. I described King's Hospital, who haven't once won a small in-bred provincial competition like the Leinster Senior Cup, as the "whipping boys" of the event and the switchboards were jammed for a week by people who wanted to twist my testicles and pull my hair. I was invited to a pre-match dinner for a fixture I was covering involving Lansdowne, but when I turned up and they realised I wasn't quite what they'd been expecting, I was banished to a broom cupboard and given a hot beef roll.
    I know these stories may be very upsetting for some sensitive readers, and perhaps there should have been an appropriate warning at the top of the piece, but I can only hope that any distress caused will serve as a warning to others. There has been enough hurt already. Stay away from rugby. It is a plague, sent to us, like the potato famine, to undermine the fabric of our society. The depression-era justification for allowing rugby to prosper (i.e. it's the only way most of these oafs will ever get jobs) is no longer sustainable. The sport should be banned and driven underground.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    Tom Humphrey's, a extremely talented writer, his hatred of rugby is well documented. Not everyone has to like a sport, who cares?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭Wreck


    Quite a funny article, however I played rugby for 15 or so years and never once did I have my testicles squeezed or twisted, I feel like I missed out :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    Complete and utter trimp, most of it sounds made up and just awful journalism. Think there might be a competition in the media to see who can produce the worse article/commentary to do with rugby at the moment.

    And btw that whole ball twisting thing is complete rubbish i have never in my whole life had that done to me or heard of it from any other of my team mates. Hairpulling happens now and again but what the hell if your complaining about that your a wimp and shouldn't be playing in the first place. Maybe you should go to the Emerald Warriors id say they might be a bit gentle with him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Complete and utter trimp, most of it sounds made up and just awful journalism. Think there might be a competition in the media to see who can produce the worse article/commentary to do with rugby at the moment.

    And btw that whole ball twisting thing is complete rubbish i have never in my whole life had that done to me or heard of it from any other of my team mates. Hairpulling happens now and again but what the hell if your complaining about that your a wimp and shouldn't be playing in the first place. Maybe you should go to the Emerald Warriors id say they might be a bit gentle with him.

    I would hasard a guess that he is completely exaggerating on purpose. Its a style he has used in his Locker Room pieces before and many journalists do, the ridiculous hyperbole. Despite the fact that i completely disagree with him i still got sucked into his piece. The article isn't supposed to be informative but is taking a assways look at a sport and telling a story to keep the readers hooked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭AlphaMale 3OO


    (Note: In the GAA testicles don't actually exist

    Tell Paul Galvin that.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭Sparky14


    Reasonably entertaining, if most of it comes straight from Humphos imagination. Did enjoy the line about the "The teams have all the 'Rock guys together, the 'Nure guys with the Belvo' boys,..." and describing a schools team as the whipping boys of the competition. They should get Gerry Thornley to do a similar piece about GAA.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭Ceartgoleor


    The annoying thing about Humphreys is that he always brings his class warfare style into his talk about disliking rugby, and when he says he dislikes rugby its never for any proper reasons regarding the game itself, but usually this sort of rubbish criticising the people involved.

    That said I did go to, and play rugby for, one of these schools. :D


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm almost certain I read that exact same article a number of years ago. He's entitled to his opinion, but by christ does it get dull after a while.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Have to admit I laughed. "Humpho" is a legend.

    And Stevo, to call it awful journalism is pretty silly, it's clearly a light-hearted jab at D4 rugby fans, and some of them definitely deserve it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I'm almost certain I read that exact same article a number of years ago. He's entitled to his opinion, but by christ does it get dull after a while.
    erm...it is a reprint from 2001...!


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    RuggieBear wrote: »
    erm...it is a reprint from 2001...!

    Shush you.


    (I'll try and pay more attention to these things in future :o )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,162 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    I like most competetive sport, and schools rugby is that, yes its mainly played by private schools , in leinster anyway, but its still a formiddable battle, which is the attraction for me - I also used to love priemiership football, but when wages went over 100k a week, i just couldn't relate to it, particularly as a game for the people - I loved playing Gaelic football , never enjoyed watching it though - throw away the chip tom, his kids may very well attend private Dublin schools, and if they are lucky eneogh to play rugby and get picked, humble pie might be on the menu ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Downtime


    thebaz wrote: »
    ...yes its mainly played by private schools , in leinster anyway...

    No it's not. It's mainly played well by private schools (or they have the higher success rate in competitions) but less than 20% of the rugby playing schools in Leinster are private.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    RuggieBear wrote: »
    erm...it is a reprint from 2001...!

    I couldn't give two stuffs about schools rugby union either. It gets way too much exposure in the media and is a block to age grade players playing in the club system that they should be in by the age of 16.
    People sometimes boast of the crowds at the games. This also is shash. Its not like the kids who go generally have a choice in the first place anyway, is it?

    Having said all that, a Humphries article slating the game in general is nothing new. He whallops on about GAA and soccer like Colm Tóibín talks about the wheat and the chaff of Wexford. The irony is that he comments on discipline in rugby. Given that police have had to escort refs off for women's club hurling before, I tend to laugh at the chump who writes this bilge.

    Like Stephen Jones, Ciaran Cronin or George Hook, I don't pay any attention to silly jibe articles like the one that was reprinted in yesterday's Irish Times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭luckat


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Complete and utter trimp, most of it sounds made up and just awful journalism. Think there might be a competition in the media to see who can produce the worse article/commentary to do with rugby at the moment.

    Oo, saucer of milk for Table 13.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭Ceartgoleor


    I couldn't give two stuffs about schools rugby union either. It gets way too much exposure in the media and is a block to age grade players playing in the club system that they should be in by the age of 16.

    Who decides the club system is better preparation for players? The very best Irish players have always come through the schools system, some of them, like Kearney, Fitzgerald & d'Arcy directly from school into international rugby almost.

    Our schools system is of an exceptionally high standard internationally, (look at the success of the U-20's teams in the last couple of seasons) and the fact that in recent years 'Rock, Belvo and St. Michael's have all accounted for their counterparts in the UK who have won the Daily Mail Schools Cup in the same year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Who decides the club system is better preparation for players?
    Well, for starters, the U20s coach, Allan Clarke who has also helped established the Academies throughout the provinces
    The very best Irish players have always come through the schools system, some of them, like Kearney, Fitzgerald & d'Arcy directly from school into international rugby almost
    Kearney and Fitzgerald were brought through the Academy system in conjunction with the High Performance Dept of the IRFU. You can add Heaslip, Healy and Earls to that also.
    d'Arcy didn't have the most auspicious of starts and virtually had to restart his career after partying up for two years in Australia. I'd give the provincial system and in particular Matt Williams the credit for re-discovering him myself.
    Our schools system is of an exceptionally high standard internationally, (look at the success of the U-20's teams in the last couple of seasons) and the fact that in recent years 'Rock, Belvo and St. Michael's have all accounted for their counterparts in the UK who have won the Daily Mail Schools Cup in the same year.
    For U20s see quote above. As for the schools winning the comp you mention erm....they played other schools. How did they do against the Welsh club age teams? What about English clubs? They didn't play them, did they...
    Reliance on the schools system is what is damaging the likes of Scottish and Australian rugby union. It thins out the playerbase. When the playerbase is smaller than other countries such as England, France or even Wales, the talent it delivers should be introduced to the competitive game earlier. Effing around in schools competition and being kept out of the harder competitive element is what had limited, before the present system was established, depth of choices for positions like prop or no.10.

    All in my opinion, of course.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭Ceartgoleor


    Well, for starters, the U20s coach, Allan Clarke who has also helped established the Academies throughout the provinces
    It's ridiculous to attempt to give the academies the credit for producing these players, they've only been there for about a year, and all learn the bulk of their formative rugby at school. Especially in the case of Luke Fitzgerald, who played for Ireland before he'd even played for Leinster.

    Allen Clarke picks players from the Academies because they're at an age where they've finished school for the most part, it still doesn't change the fact that that is where they've learned their rugby.

    A quick glance at the most recent Ireland U-20's team throws up Dave Kearney, Ian McKinley, Michael Keating, Ian Madigan, Thomas Sexton, Jack McGrath & Dominic Ryan all from the Leinster schools system, and those are just the lads I know, not including the Ulster or Munster boys.

    There is a club set up, and club representative international sides, it's just not as strong as the schools.

    Your questions about beating schools like Wellington College or Colston's when we were in 'Rock and comparing it to club sides? We did routinely play Welsh touring club sides, including Carmarthen Athletic who included current Scarlets Rhys Priestland and Kenny Owens, and other strong English club sides on tour also, and found we got a tougher game from their school counterparts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,162 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Downtime wrote: »
    No it's not. It's mainly played well by private schools (or they have the higher success rate in competitions) but less than 20% of the rugby playing schools in Leinster are private.


    ok so, the article was geared at that 80 % then , with a massive picture of one of the 20 % - if that was the case why would he have written the article - if you are that particular about facts


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    It's ridiculous to attempt to give the academies the credit for producing these players, they've only been there for about a year, and all learn the bulk of their formative rugby at school. Especially in the case of Luke Fitzgerald, who played for Ireland before he'd even played for Leinster.

    Allen Clarke picks players from the Academies because they're at an age where they've finished school for the most part, it still doesn't change the fact that that is where they've learned their rugby
    :rolleyes:
    It and the high performance unit has been in place for the last three years. Read his interview in one of the main daily newspapers. It sums up perfectly the state of grade rugby.
    There is a club set up, and club representative international sides, it's just not as strong as the schools
    And people like yourself will make sure of that.
    Your questions about beating schools like Wellington College or Colston's when we were in 'Rock and comparing it to club sides? We did routinely play Welsh touring club sides, including Carmarthen Athletic who included current Scarlets Rhys Priestland and Kenny Owens, and other strong English club sides on tour also, and found we got a tougher game from their school counterparts.
    Have a look at the Wales U18 side this year then (one of last year's being poached by Ireland in fact).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Funnily enough, I have had my balls squeezed at least three times over the years playing GAA, so I am inclined to think Tom is a little bit off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Spore


    I played my rugby DNS, something Humphries fails to pick up on - Rugby aint always a posho sport. I'd say at least 50-60% of rugby is played outside the posh confines of private schools and prawn and cocktails clubs. The likes of Keith Earls is a mascot for the way forward - came from the Hood, literally, that was no hamper on him, just a great athlete playing a great sport.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Spore wrote: »
    I played my rugby DNS, something Humphries fails to pick up on - Rugby aint always a posho sport. I'd say at least 50-60% of rugby is played outside the posh confines of private schools and prawn and cocktails clubs.

    Too right. I always love coming into the city on a good sunny afternoon with a light wind on my back and smashing around a few posh kids.

    In Leinster, you can look at G.Darcy R.Kearney J.Heaslip G.Murphy B.Jackman and even Tony Buckley, who all started playing rugby in Kildare. Not Dublin. Horgan's a Meath man and I think Dempsey's a Wicklownian at heart. Leo Cullen is a wicklow man as well. Sean O'Brien is from feckin Tullow of all places. Im not saying these guys arent posh (Kearney really turned his back on Louth when he went to Clongowes...!) but they're not exactly D4s.

    Schools rugby is the best underage rugby competition in Ireland. It has to be said. But it is also true that it places a huge block in front of U16/U18s who want to get involved in rugby and can't afford a private school. Good underage schools players are pushed into the limelight by national papers. Good underage club rugby players get absolutely no exposure and its ridiculous. A perfect example at the moment is Sean Kelly, the young outhalf at Newbridge RFC, he's been playing Under 20s rugby (Newbridge U-20s, unlike their seniors, are an extremely competitive team. fed by Newbridge College for the most part) since he was 16 and he's started for the Senior team at the tender age of 18. He goes to a public school so all his education has come through the club, yet he still can control a game against strong South Dublin U-20s teams full of schools rugby products, If a 16 year old was starting at OH for one of the big private schools in the SC he'd be hailed as a messiah by Thornley and the like. There's players just like that across the country, who are shunned by the provincial academies for schools players becuse of their supposed superiority.

    There is definitely a problem there and hopefully someone see that and proposes a solution.

    Off the top of my head, with the changes supposedly coming in which will change U18 rugby to U19, that puts the clubs in the same age-group as the schools, so I don't see why clubs should be prevented from competing in the Senior Cup. The IRFU already prevent players playing both schools rugby and club rugby, so dual-registration wouldn't be an issure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Schools get far more visibility than clubs, hence their superiority - schools rugby has glory (think back to when you were 12 :P ) club doesn't, so people commit to their school, and that exacerabates the divide.

    Letting the clubs in really wouldn't hurt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Spore wrote: »
    I played my rugby DNS, something Humphries fails to pick up on - Rugby aint always a posho sport. I'd say at least 50-60% of rugby is played outside the posh confines of private schools and prawn and cocktails clubs. The likes of Keith Earls is a mascot for the way forward - came from the Hood, literally, that was no hamper on him, just a great athlete playing a great sport.

    Sean O'Brien is hardly a posho either.

    I think the system just needs a little tweaking. One way would be to make U17 / colts a big thing for the clubs. It would mean that the clubs and schools don't clash. That's what they do in England.

    Rock, Nure etc are all fielding youth teams now which contain players many players who are not on the schools 1st team.

    That's a big step forward from my day when once you went to a Rugby school you were not allowed play for your club even if you couldn't make your school first team.


  • Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭ Damari Fit Sheriff


    (Kearney really turned his back on Louth when he went to Clongowes...!) but they're not exactly D4s.


    What do you mean turned his back?

    Why,because he got a good education and developed his rugby skills in a private boarding school.

    FYI the only rugby school in D4 is ST Michaels and Clongowes would be considered equally as upper class as rock,nure,michaels etc.

    So this D4 steriotype unless aimed at Michaels,doesnt make any sense,unless you class any school near the southside dartline D4.

    And basically all the players you mentioned went to private schools in leinster,so its the same "posho" schools that keep producing some of the best players in the country.

    So this steriotype does not count if your not from dublin,cause Leo Cullen went to Rock but he is a wicklow man and not a D4 head,yet Fitzgerald lived in Dublin went to Rock and is??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    What do you mean turned his back?

    Why,because he got a good education and developed his rugby skills in a private boarding school.

    FYI the only rugby school in D4 is ST Michaels and Clongowes would be considered equally as upper class as rock,nure,michaels etc.

    So this D4 steriotype unless aimed at Michaels,doesnt make any sense,unless you class any school near the southside dartline D4.

    And basically all the players you mentioned went to private schools in leinster,so its the same "posho" schools that keep producing some of the best players in the country.

    Ah there's a few more schools in D4 than Michaels. None are really rugby schools though.

    And yeah, come on, we all know D4's a state of mind, etc. lads from Michaels, Rock, Belvedere, CLongowes, etc aren't very different.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,958 ✭✭✭✭RuggieBear


    Marian College, St Conleiths College, John Scottus (?) are three schools in D4 that also play Leinster Schools rugby( Section A..when i was playing) but not in the top divsion


  • Posts: 4,333 ✭✭✭ Damari Fit Sheriff


    Yeah thats what I meant,they are the only prominent rugby school in D4,although im open to correction.

    It just annoys me that people talk such ****e about schools rugby.
    Like if you are from wicklow or meath and attend a private school you are exempt from the D4 steriotype yet if you live in Dublin and go to the same school your classed as D4.

    Also people dont seem to understand that Clongowes is probably the top 2 most prestigious schools in ireland,so anyone who went there could certainly be labeled D4 if a person seems to generalise,as many here are doing,mostly from Munster I would assume.
    Spore wrote: »
    I played my rugby DNS, something Humphries fails to pick up on - Rugby aint always a posho sport. I'd say at least 50-60% of rugby is played outside the posh confines of private schools and prawn and cocktails clubs. The likes of Keith Earls is a mascot for the way forward - came from the Hood, literally, that was no hamper on him, just a great athlete playing a great sport.
    Why is it a mascot for the way foward???

    Is it a bad thing to go to a private school and play rugby?
    I could have sworn my parents were just trying to get me the best education they could,like everyone else who goes to a private school.

    You say Earls is a great athlete playing a great sport.
    What are luke Fitzgerald and Bod?
    jumped up poshos holding others back from playing rugby?

    Also a mascot for the way foward??
    I could have sworn the best players in the country are majority from fee paying schools as will always be the case.

    I have also never seen anyone eating a prawn sandwhich in my life.
    The ignorance from some people is sickening,it was confined to munsterfans.com but now here.
    Kearney and Fitzgerald were brought through the Academy system in conjunction with the High Performance Dept of the IRFU. You can add Heaslip, Healy and Earls to that also.

    Fitzgerald played his first international 6 months after he left rock but you credit the academy with that?

    I dont know if are involved or watch Leinster senior cup rugby but I can assure you,they are as good as they are because of the coaching they get in school,not the academys.
    Too right. I always love coming into the city on a good sunny afternoon with a light wind on my back and smashing around a few posh kids.

    In Leinster, you can look at G.Darcy R.Kearney J.Heaslip G.Murphy B.Jackman and even Tony Buckley, who all started playing rugby in Kildare. Not Dublin. Horgan's a Meath man and I think Dempsey's a Wicklownian at heart. Leo Cullen is a wicklow man as well. Sean O'Brien is from feckin Tullow of all places. Im not saying these guys arent posh (Kearney really turned his back on Louth when he went to Clongowes...!) but they're not exactly D4s.

    You love beating up people because of their background.What a nice person.

    Also all the players you mentioned learned their rugby in a private school,not a club.
    Except for O'Brien and possibly Horgan.

    Wheres D4 lad?
    And point to the schools you class as D4.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    <snip>I will not say anything mean and degrading and defamatory about any players</snip>
    The ignorance from some people is sickening,not only is it confined to munsterfans.com but now here.
    I'm not from munster. I went to a private school in Leinster, and played rugby, and suffered the insults any "D4" student does. And I hated it and I called it a useless stereotype and I called everyone ignorant...

    But then one day I realised it was spot on. You're right though, D4 is completely incorrect, it's more a class thing than a geographical thing.

    I went to Newbridge College by the way, and we were always called scumbridge by all the "good" schools like 'Nure and 'Rock. They even use to wave their wallets at our team bus as we drove in... just to make sure we understood that we were playing a sport that was too good for us.

    It's just unfortunate that, when it comes to rugby, strength in character has an inverse ratio to one's proximity to Donnybrook


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