PLEASE HELP, HEALER NEEDED

sorella · 17-02-2009 08:59AM

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

You have your awareness; we have ours. Based on long decades of experience. Of healings real and strong and permanent.

And in this we trust always.

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

Over and out

Bless you!

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Faith healing is indeed well-documented and demonstrated not to work, beyond a placebo effect. The Cochrane library did a systematic review of randomised controlled trials on intercessory prayer and found that while some small studies found vague positive effects, when analysed all together (covering some 7000 or more cases) there was basically nothing happening at all.

You can read the for free study here:

http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD000368/pdf_fs.html

OP, go to a doctor.

mdebets · 17-02-2009 09:41AM

sorella wrote: »

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

If this studies would exist and they were scientific I would belief them. So show them to me and enlighten me.

sorella wrote: »

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

I find that comment of yours quite funny. You accuse AtomicHorror of trying to control and test God, yet he is not doing such thing.
You on the other hand are doing exatly this.
You say to the OP go to a healer to be healed. So you basicly telling him if he is sick God (through a healer) will heal them. You basiclly tell him that he can command God to heal the sick. So who is ordering God arround?

norrie rugger · 17-02-2009 10:35AM

sorella wrote: »

You have google.

Abundant evidence.

Blessings and bye!!!

Over and out......

Please point me to evidence not google.

norrie rugger · 17-02-2009 11:10AM

sorella wrote: »

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

You have your awareness; we have ours. Based on long decades of experience. Of healings real and strong and permanent.

And in this we trust always.

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

Over and out

Bless you!

Please show us these studies.
Independantly reviewed studies perchance?

Of course not because none of it is repeatable

Edit:
Also, please do not assume that everyone wants blessings. Not everyone would share your view on religion.

DeVore · 17-02-2009 11:23AM

Your anecdotes have done more to convince me then real science ever could.... :rolleyes:

What a crock.

OP, if you have lower back pain or muscular pain go to a sports physio.

I recommend Samuel in www.the-elbowroom.com . I'm seeing him at the moment for problems since my snowboarding accident. He's brilliant. I've seen a few sports physios in my time and this guy is amazing, really amazing. He uses a combination of accupunture and deep muscle massage, but everything he does is based in real world science, he explains how the muscles work and why doing these physical things has a physical, almost engineeering-like, effect on the skeletal structure.

He charges 50 euro for an hour and I have been going since Sept. I could have stopped in Dec but it really improves my body and I feel great after it so I kept going!

But this stuff isnt voodoo, he has a stack of qualifications from sports therapy universities. He explains the science and his knowledge is extremely deep about muscles and the skeleton. He doesnt wave hands, or place crystals, he simply gets into your muscles and fixes things.

He leave for the US to work in a teaching hospital in May so go. Today.

DeV.

the_syco · 17-02-2009 11:46AM

sorella wrote: »

Well, you know, we hear all this so often.

That is your take on it; ours is very different.

And to us it is not "mumbo jumbo"

So let us agree to disagree on this.

We do not assess Jesus by statistics, but by love, simply and power.

And by deep humility before Him and beforfe Him only. And deep thankfulness for His healing.

The OP asked re healers; we responded as others have with our faith and our skill and experience.

That is the end of it for us.

If you have problems with that; tough...

We respect your right to hold your views, but we do not agree with them - period.

We KNOW healing is real; by faith, by prayer... as Jesus wills it.
Statistics are meaningless in this area.

And we are most certainly not being drawn into arguments on this; far too busy working to feed our babies!!

Over and out.

Blessings this day

So you speak on behalf of all healers? You say "Statistics are meaningless in this area", but I say nay, statistics are not meaningless, as they can show how many times the procedure worked.

I broke my arm recently. Would love to see how you healers would mend that without putting the bone back in place...

=-=

You say hundreds of studies, give me one, done by a scientist. A real scientist, and not one of the plonkers without any certs.

norrie rugger · 17-02-2009 12:37PM

DeVore wrote: »

You're anecdotes have done more to convince me then real science ever could.... :rolleyes:

What a crock.

OP, if you have lower back pain or muscular pain go to a sports physio.

I recommend Samuel in www.the-elbowroom.com . I'm seeing him at the moment for problems since my snowboarding accident. He's brilliant. I've seen a few sports physios in my time and this guy is amazing, really amazing. He uses a combination of accupunture and deep muscle massage, but everything he does is based in real world science, he explains how the muscles work and why doing these physical things has a physical, almost engineeering-like, effect on the skeletal structure.

He charges 50 euro for an hour and I have been going since Sept. I could have stopped in Dec but it really improves my body and I feel great after it so I kept going!

But this stuff isnt voodoo, he has a stack of qualifications from sports therapy universities. He explains the science and his knowledge is extremely deep about muscles and the skeleton. He doesnt wave hands, or place crystals, he simply gets into your muscles and fixes things.

He leave for the US to work in a teaching hospital in May so go. Today.

DeV.

If I were the OP I would get a doctor to examine a scan first, then physio.

I would imagine that the physio would prob tell him to get it done anyway. All the physio's that I have been to wanted a doctor's appraisal, before they would touch me.

You are completely right though, why should we listen to the combined learned/repeatable/recorded/practiced/reviewed knowledge, of the sciences, when we have anecdotal evidence and assurances that statistics are meaningless

AtomicHorror · 17-02-2009 02:20PM

sorella wrote: »

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But would they all be randomised and placebo controlled? There are important reasons why we do these things.

sorella wrote: »

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

If this were true we would never have come to understand how the placebo effect works. We'd still just assume it to be impossible. You think us closed minded Sorella. That is quite unfair.

sorella wrote: »

You have your awareness; we have ours. Based on long decades of experience. Of healings real and strong and permanent.

And how can you tell the difference between such healing and mere coincidence? I realise that you consider faith a virtue and testing to be in some manner bad. But you wouldn't apply that same logic to a cancer drug, nor to the safety testing of your car. So why apply it here? A thing either works or it does not. If it works, it should work when we are looking at it as well as when we do not.

sorella wrote: »

And in this we trust always.

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

I understand how faith works, but we're talking about people's lives and health. If you would give them hope, then it would be best to be sure that it's justified.

sorella wrote: »

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

Over and out

Bless you!

Sorella, I'm not going to get into a debate about whether faith is a virtue or why this is so. Nor whether testing the world with our God-given senses and our God-given reason could be considered mockery. Instead I would advise that you read Ben Goldacre's Bad Science or similar as a nice introduction to why trials and statistics are so important to what we know and how we know it. It also contains a chapter on human psychology with respect to evidence, explaining why we developed science in the first place. If you are truly open-minded I would ask that you take a look at the book.

norrie rugger · 17-02-2009 05:09PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Instead I would advise that you read Ben Goldacre's Bad Science or similar as a nice introduction to why trials and statistics are so important to what we know and how we know it. It also contains a chapter on human psychology with respect to evidence, explaining why we developed science in the first place.

I have heard conflicting review of this book, is it worth a read?

AtomicHorror · 17-02-2009 05:26PM

norrie rugger wrote: »

I have heard conflicting review of this book, is it worth a read?

I liked it. Bit repetitive in places and a bit tricky in others, but very good overall. Alternatively there's a really good chapter on confirmation bias etc in Derren Brown's book Tricks of the Mind. He touches on pseudoscience and alternative medicine as a part of that but does so from a specifically atheistic point of view. Goldacre's not interested in religion, just in medicine.

ruxpin82 · 19-02-2009 01:25AM

hey folks, OP back again,
thanks for all the replies, i think i opened up a can of worms, went a bit off topic there.
i've got a few usefull links thanks and i still remain open minded about the whole healer/bonesetter thing. Im not really interested in statistics, id try anything to get this sorted, i think by default, the normal medical option would be the longest, most drawn out process, with lots of passing the buck so to speak, not that id rule it out either.
Anyway thanks for your help, must go for a lie down, backs killin' me.:(

DeVore · 19-02-2009 10:59AM

Rux, please please go see Samuel. He'll feel you from ankle to neck (ooh err missus) and give you a diagnosis. If you need to see a doc he'll be the first to tell you, he's very good that way. You could well be suffering for nothing. Its 50 quid and you'll get a nice rub down into the bargain.

Look, if you go and he is of no help at all, I'll give you the 50 back. How about that? I'm that sure he will at least be able to point you in the direction of the final solution, but I'd bet he's able to do more then that.

Btw, I'm not on commission hahaha

DeV.

norrie rugger · 19-02-2009 12:31PM

DeVore wrote: »

Rux, please please go see Samuel. He'll feel you from ankle to neck (ooh err missus) and give you a diagnosis. If you need to see a doc he'll be the first to tell you, he's very good that way. You could well be suffering for nothing. Its 50 quid and you'll get a nice rub down into the bargain.

Look, if you go and he is of no help at all, I'll give you the 50 back. How about that? I'm that sure he will at least be able to point you in the direction of the final solution, but I'd bet he's able to do more then that.

Btw, I'm not on commission hahaha

DeV.

I have a pain in my lower back sometimes also, do we all get this offer if we go to him??

DeVore · 19-02-2009 01:09PM

hehehe yeah, right. I'm stupid but I aint an idiot!

He's the Dream* Physio Everyone!!

*Your Dreams And The Dreams Of The Krusty Corporation May Differ!

DeV

DrIndy · 20-02-2009 02:34AM

DeVore wrote: »

hehehe yeah, right. I'm stupid but I aint an idiot!
He's the Dream* Physio Everyone!!

*Your Dreams And The Dreams Of The Krusty Corporation May Differ!

DeV

LOL

If you go to a chartered physio - you will get referred medically appropriately if you need to be - unlike attending alternative medicine practitioners.

I've a pain in me arse - what can be done?

norrie rugger · 20-02-2009 10:32AM

DrIndy wrote: »

LOL

If you go to a chartered physio - you will get referred medically appropriately if you need to be - unlike attending alternative medicine practitioners.

I've a pain in me arse - what can be done?

How are we ment to know?
You're the doctor:D

you could always try getting up off of it

DrIndy · 20-02-2009 07:51PM

tomthumbelina · 26-02-2009 09:45PM

ruxpin82 wrote: »

Hey there,
im a guy in my mid twenties and i suffer a bit with my lower back. i think its to do with my siatic nerve, sharp pain when bending awkardly, tends to be just the one side but lately its either side, sudden movement/reflexes cause pain aswell, its not a constant pain but i'm always conscious of it because its easily agrovated. My back just isn't right and i'm worried it's getting worse. I'm not over weight or anything, took a fall from a horse when i was 12 and it kind of started from there, not helped either by years of pullin' and draggin' on the farm i guess.

I'm sure many of you heard about john liston morgan, the healer who was on the Ray D'arcy show last week. I eventually got through on the phone to be told that because of his appearence on the show, next available appointment is in October.
Anyway, i am absolutely loathed at the idea of spinal operations, and i believe going to a GP about it is a waste of 50euro, so i'd like to try the healer option. It may be bollox, it may not, but its definately worth a go, so if anyone knows of other 'healers' around the country i d love to know.
Thanks for reading.

I know liston morgan , and hes nothing more than a con man who enjoys playing on desperation - a charlaton like 99% of (healers ) .
For as long as he doesnt charge you may as well go and find out for yourself - all you be wasting is your time .
See a reputable bone-setter.

tomthumbelina · 26-02-2009 10:17PM

sorella wrote: »

Well, you know, we hear all this so often.

That is your take on it; ours is very different.

And to us it is not "mumbo jumbo"

So let us agree to disagree on this.

We do not assess Jesus by statistics, but by love, simply and power.

And by deep humility before Him and beforfe Him only. And deep thankfulness for His healing.

The OP asked re healers; we responded as others have with our faith and our skill and experience.

That is the end of it for us.

If you have problems with that; tough...

We respect your right to hold your views, but we do not agree with them - period.

We KNOW healing is real; by faith, by prayer... as Jesus wills it.
Statistics are meaningless in this area.

And we are most certainly not being drawn into arguments on this; far too busy working to feed our babies!!

Over and out.

Blessings this day

Read 'The God delusion' by Dawkins it will open your eyes!

anne h. · 02-03-2009 10:07PM

Hi

Acupuncture is great for sciatica and back pain. It's safe, pain free and effective and reccomended for over 100 health problms by the world health organisations, including backache and sciatica.

I'm an acupuncturist and I know that acupuncture is great for sciatica and backache first hand*

Check holisto.com for someone local to you with good accreditation, such as T.C.M.C.I.

I say go local as most people who drive hours away to someone only end up going once or twice as it's such a trial to get there.

I've heard terrible stories about healers ripping people off and when you think about it its so easy for anyone to set themselfes up as a healer.

When someone's gone through a few years at college, paid a lot of money to study a subject in depth, sat a lot of exams etc.. there have more credibility I think and it lessens the odd's they're some kind of charlatan.

Well in this field anyways where people are so vunlnerable.

Anyway's good luck!

Anne

*(P.S i'm absolutely catagorically not touting for business, the only way I can prove this is if anyone did happen to contact me for an appointment i won't reply).

norrie rugger · 04-03-2009 12:58PM

tomthumbelina wrote: »

Read 'The God delusion' by Dawkins it will open your eyes!

People like Dawkins should not be listened to, when they spout on about their personal opinions.

The man is a fanatic, as bad as any religious nut, who fosters agression and mistrust.
He feeds off of the publicity that his stance gives him.

People are, and should be, free to believe whatever the hell they want. As long as that belief structure does not affect my own rights then let them at it.

Having fanatics, like him on one side and the religious fundies on the other, only serves to drive wedges between people, who just want to be left alone.

AtomicHorror · 05-03-2009 06:54PM

norrie rugger wrote: »

People like Dawkins should not be listened to, when they spout on about their personal opinions.

The man is a fanatic, as bad as any religious nut, who fosters agression and mistrust.
He feeds off of the publicity that his stance gives him.

People are, and should be, free to believe whatever the hell they want. As long as that belief structure does not affect my own rights then let them at it.

But that's what Dawkins' position is. Have you read his views on religion? His issue is not personal belief, but the social impact of that.

AtomicHorror · 05-03-2009 06:56PM

anne h. wrote: »

Hi

Acupuncture is great for sciatica and back pain. It's safe, pain free and effective and reccomended for over 100 health problms by the world health organisations, including backache and sciatica.

I'm an acupuncturist and I know that acupuncture is great for sciatica and backache first hand*

Check holisto.com for someone local to you with good accreditation, such as T.C.M.C.I.

I say go local as most people who drive hours away to someone only end up going once or twice as it's such a trial to get there.

I've heard terrible stories about healers ripping people off and when you think about it its so easy for anyone to set themselfes up as a healer.

When someone's gone through a few years at college, paid a lot of money to study a subject in depth, sat a lot of exams etc.. there have more credibility I think and it lessens the odd's they're some kind of charlatan.

Well in this field anyways where people are so vunlnerable.

Anyway's good luck!

Anne

*(P.S i'm absolutely catagorically not touting for business, the only way I can prove this is if anyone did happen to contact me for an appointment i won't reply).

Acupuncture has not been demonstrated to be better than fake acupuncture. It appears to work entirely by placebo effect.

wuzzik · 05-03-2009 07:22PM

Hi there. I had the same problem a few years ago. Went to the Dr. on numerous occasions was then referred to the hospital that took a month (with Bupa) was then referred for a MRI which took another 6 weeks then a month for the results. Was told that I would need surgery as I had three damaged discs. Did not fancy that so I went to an osteopath took two days to get an appointment he told me that I had three damaged discs without an MRI to refer to. He twisted me in knots did electronic acupuncture and gave me some pills to take for a month. Needed to take two weeks off work not go in a car at all for that time lie down flat for an hour twice a day and walk for 30 minutes three times a day. Cost me 80Euro to see him and 65 for medicine. Result NO MORE BACK TROUBLE:D:D:D

AmcD · 05-03-2009 11:01PM

Don't mean to put a downer on the whole osteopath/chiropracter option, but: my husband is an orthopod- he recently treated a patient who developed cauda equina after attending a chiropracter. This young guy is now incontinent of urine and faeces for life. Luckily orthopaedic surgeons have access to MRI and don't have to rely on xray vision.

But whatever works for you!

wuzzik · 06-03-2009 11:45AM

A friend of mine went for a back op in November last year and was back to the specialist a few weeks ago still in agony was sent for another MRI because he was not sure if he had fixed the correct disc. He is now talking about long term pain management. She is only 40 so long term could mean a VERY long time. Wonder what damage the pain medication will cause.:eek:

tallaght01 · 06-03-2009 04:30PM

But at least the osteopaths publish success rates for their procedures, and have an evidence base for what they do.

Well, apparently even orthopods do :P

Same can't be said for osteopaths. I think that's where most of the medical community has a problem. It just seems to be a case of "trust us because we're not the man, and we wouldn't lie to you".

AtomicHorror · 06-03-2009 05:43PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

But at least the osteopaths publish success rates for their procedures, and have an evidence base for what they do.

Well, apparently even orthopods do :P

Same can't be said for chiropractors. I think that's where most of the medical community has a problem. It just seems to be a case of "trust us because we're not the man, and we wouldn't lie to you".

Fixed

theVillager · 06-03-2009 07:16PM

hiya ruxpin!
I was googling john liston morgan there and this thread came up so i thought i'd drop u a line to see how u got on with the healer situation?
I've also suffered from lower back pain 4 years, even tho i'm only 27. Its now developed into sciatica in me left hip and leg and as i'm sure u can understand it gets pretty depressing.
Did u get hold of a healer and if so how did it go!? Would u recommend them?
Anyways hope 2 hear from u & take care

maria m · 02-04-2009 01:27AM

ruxpin82 wrote: »

Hey there,
im a guy in my mid twenties and i suffer a bit with my lower back. i think its to do with my siatic nerve, sharp pain when bending awkardly, tends to be just the one side but lately its either side, sudden movement/reflexes cause pain aswell, its not a constant pain but i'm always conscious of it because its easily agrovated. My back just isn't right and i'm worried it's getting worse. I'm not over weight or anything, took a fall from a horse when i was 12 and it kind of started from there, not helped either by years of pullin' and draggin' on the farm i guess.

I'm sure many of you heard about john liston morgan, the healer who was on the Ray D'arcy show last week. I eventually got through on the phone to be told that because of his appearence on the show, next available appointment is in October.
Anyway, i am absolutely loathed at the idea of spinal operations, and i believe going to a GP about it is a waste of 50euro, so i'd like to try the healer option. It may be bollox, it may not, but its definately worth a go, so if anyone knows of other 'healers' around the country i d love to know.
Thanks for reading.

Hey There!
Hopefully you have found someone to help you already but if you havent hopefully this will help. My sister who was 28 at the time had to go sick from work and was out for 7 months with pain in her back, she couldnt get comfortable sitting, standing, she couldnt even lift her one and a half year old. Long story short she was at her own doctor ,consultant in Cuh whom which advised her to opt for surgery as they had not seen a woman of her age with this bad a back and ongoing medicals with the company she works for in the end she tried osteopathy with some one in Douglas in Cork she went for 7 or 8 sessions and is now back to work fulltime and hasnt looked back.
Hope you find this useful!

PLEASE HELP, HEALER NEEDED

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