PLEASE HELP, HEALER NEEDED

ruxpin82

Hey there,
im a guy in my mid twenties and i suffer a bit with my lower back. i think its to do with my siatic nerve, sharp pain when bending awkardly, tends to be just the one side but lately its either side, sudden movement/reflexes cause pain aswell, its not a constant pain but i'm always conscious of it because its easily agrovated. My back just isn't right and i'm worried it's getting worse. I'm not over weight or anything, took a fall from a horse when i was 12 and it kind of started from there, not helped either by years of pullin' and draggin' on the farm i guess.

I'm sure many of you heard about john liston morgan, the healer who was on the Ray D'arcy show last week. I eventually got through on the phone to be told that because of his appearence on the show, next available appointment is in October.
Anyway, i am absolutely loathed at the idea of spinal operations, and i believe going to a GP about it is a waste of 50euro, so i'd like to try the healer option. It may be bollox, it may not, but its definately worth a go, so if anyone knows of other 'healers' around the country i d love to know.
Thanks for reading.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Don't be silly. Stay away from the healer. You'd be better off burning the money.

Go to your doctor.

jim o doom

Try a physiotherapist, a chiropractor or even an acupuncturist (good ones do help) - but seriously, stay away from healers..

sorella

Christian or otherwise?

ruxpin82 wrote: »

Hey there,
im a guy in my mid twenties and i suffer a bit with my lower back. i think its to do with my siatic nerve, sharp pain when bending awkardly, tends to be just the one side but lately its either side, sudden movement/reflexes cause pain aswell, its not a constant pain but i'm always conscious of it because its easily agrovated. My back just isn't right and i'm worried it's getting worse. I'm not over weight or anything, took a fall from a horse when i was 12 and it kind of started from there, not helped either by years of pullin' and draggin' on the farm i guess.

I'm sure many of you heard about john liston morgan, the healer who was on the Ray D'arcy show last week. I eventually got through on the phone to be told that because of his appearence on the show, next available appointment is in October.
Anyway, i am absolutely loathed at the idea of spinal operations, and i believe going to a GP about it is a waste of 50euro, so i'd like to try the healer option. It may be bollox, it may not, but its definately worth a go, so if anyone knows of other 'healers' around the country i d love to know.
Thanks for reading.

ZorbaTehZ

ruxpin82 wrote: »

It may be bollox, it may not, but its definately worth a go, so if anyone knows of other 'healers' around the country i d love to know.

You're worried about spending money on a GP, but not at all bothered about paying to see a healer?!

ruxpin82

christian raised, not that that has anything to do with it, (if there was a god there would probably be no religion).
Im not a religious person, im just looking to be fixed.

i think that GP's wouldn't be able to help and would only refer me to other people and a long drawn out process involving x-rays, specialist,more referals, months of waiting and money would result. the way the health service is run does'nt inspire me with confidence.
I know im looking for an easy fix, but if half a day given over to see one of these guys got a result, wouldn't it be worth it??

i accept that chiropracter/physio is one route which i should explore and probably will, but they're not cheap either, i just want to give myself some options.

thanks for your replys.

sorella

I meant the healer, not you....



And you need faith whatever you choose, be it drs or healers.

Faith in whoever you turn to.

Blessings this night..

ruxpin82 wrote: »

christian raised, not that that has anything to do with it, (if there was a god there would probably be no religion).
Im not a religious person, im just looking to be fixed.

i think that GP's wouldn't be able to help and would only refer me to other people and a long drawn out process involving x-rays, specialist,more referals, months of waiting and money would result. the way the health service is run does'nt inspire me with confidence.
I know im looking for an easy fix, but if half a day given over to see one of these guys got a result, wouldn't it be worth it??

i accept that chiropracter/physio is one route which i should explore and probably will, but they're not cheap either, i just want to give myself some options.

thanks for your replys.

taram

ruxpin82 wrote: »

christian raised, not that that has anything to do with it, (if there was a god there would probably be no religion).
Im not a religious person, im just looking to be fixed.

i think that GP's wouldn't be able to help and would only refer me to other people and a long drawn out process involving x-rays, specialist,more referals, months of waiting and money would result. the way the health service is run does'nt inspire me with confidence.
I know im looking for an easy fix, but if half a day given over to see one of these guys got a result, wouldn't it be worth it??

i accept that chiropracter/physio is one route which i should explore and probably will, but they're not cheap either, i just want to give myself some options.

thanks for your replys.

The HSE can be useless, but the people in it are excellent. Your GP is there to assess your pain, then offer a solution, it's unlikely you'd be waiting for a physio/chiro appointment more than a week. It might be something ridicously easy to sort out, more than likely some physio appointments and medical gel rather than spinal operations If you have health insurance you could probably go to a private physio (my dad got next day appointment) and have it mostly paid for by it.

I admit I am hugely skeptical of healers, so that colours my comments, but I wouldn't risk my health in the hands of someone with no medical experience, you say a GP visit is a waste, but they have the knowledge of what could be wrong, the links to the medical community to cure you (if not something straight forward), and the ability if you have something seriously wrong that they can get you treated, saving you pain in the future. Seriously, what can a healer offer you?

sorella

Healing, simply.

What a healer can offer you, I mean.

But attitude is everything.

And most healers will advise a dr; they are not irresponsible. As you say of course.

But healing is well documented.

taram wrote: »

The HSE can be useless, but the people in it are excellent. Your GP is there to assess your pain, then offer a solution, it's unlikely you'd be waiting for a physio/chiro appointment more than a week. It might be something ridicously easy to sort out, more than likely some physio appointments and medical gel rather than spinal operations If you have health insurance you could probably go to a private physio (my dad got next day appointment) and have it mostly paid for by it.

I admit I am hugely skeptical of healers, so that colours my comments, but I wouldn't risk my health in the hands of someone with no medical experience, you say a GP visit is a waste, but they have the knowledge of what could be wrong, the links to the medical community to cure you (if not something straight forward), and the ability if you have something seriously wrong that they can get you treated, saving you pain in the future. Seriously, what can a healer offer you?

North_West_Art

ruxpin82 wrote: »

Hey there,
im a guy in my mid twenties and i suffer a bit with my lower back. i think its to do with my siatic nerve, sharp pain when bending awkardly, tends to be just the one side but lately its either side, sudden movement/reflexes cause pain aswell, its not a constant pain but i'm always conscious of it because its easily agrovated. My back just isn't right and i'm worried it's getting worse. I'm not over weight or anything, took a fall from a horse when i was 12 and it kind of started from there, not helped either by years of pullin' and draggin' on the farm i guess.

I'm sure many of you heard about john liston morgan, the healer who was on the Ray D'arcy show last week. I eventually got through on the phone to be told that because of his appearence on the show, next available appointment is in October.
Anyway, i am absolutely loathed at the idea of spinal operations, and i believe going to a GP about it is a waste of 50euro, so i'd like to try the healer option. It may be bollox, it may not, but its definately worth a go, so if anyone knows of other 'healers' around the country i d love to know.
Thanks for reading.

You need an X-Ray... get one immediatley, then take it from there. I can give you a few numbers of top back people, but get an X-Ray first asap

murrayp4

G.P....Then physio probably...forget 'healers'. At you're age its very unlikely you'd need an op. Physio is usually €50 per. session

ZorbaTehZ

sorella wrote: »

And you need faith whatever you choose, be it drs or healers.

'fraid you're wrong there, doctors have this thing known as 'science' to back them up, no faith required!

MatthewVII

sorella wrote: »

But healing is well documented.

Links/evidence? Or is the evidence anecdotal only?

sorella

You have google.

Abundant evidence.

Blessings and bye!!!

Over and out......

MatthewVII wrote: »

Links/evidence? Or is the evidence anecdotal only?

lisaloo

My family are a bit sceptical about healers but when my mother was sick over 2 years ago we were told there was no chance. We heard about a healer in Monasterevin, Co Kildare. His name is Chris Talbot and i cant say enough good things about him. My mother is well today and i am positive he helped. if you are interested in meeting him send me a pm and i will give you his number. He doesnt take money!!!

At the end of our time with him, he had probably spent 6 hrs with my mother.

jtbub15

i think healers can be fantastic! I've been a couple of times myself to one guy in particular and found it absolutely amazing! Probably the "placebo effect" but what ever works to ease the pain! I also went with problems with my back (after a car crash) and he really helped ease it. Not gone completely but I dont think it ever will but it definately helped, and without the need to be off my head on very strong painkillers!

Anywoo... what location are you in? I know of a few.:D

DrIndy

You should always go to a doctor first.

dorothygale

I used to have horrible back pain, I couldn't walk some days. I went to a healer and he solved it. This was after years of goign to doctors and chiropractors who would heal me but hten It would come back every few months. I have never had that problem again, he didn't even charge me. I wish I could remember his name or where he lived exactly. I was driving with my boss on the road to Dublin from Mayo (don't work for him anymore), but I believe it was in another county... I remember he was on an oxygen tank... My boss told me he was the real deal and that he cured a lady with cancer a few years ago.

I am an athiest, but he prayed over my back and did the sign of the cross. When I left, it stil hurt but 30 minutes later no pain and it hasn't come back.

I dunno about healers, all i know is my back hasn't hurt since.

dorothygale

Come to think of it, it was Co. Westmeath, maybe?

MatthewVII

DrIndy wrote: »

You should always go to a doctor first.

Agreed, you should always make sure there's no medical reason behind things (e.g. someone I knew had back pain for ages, tried homeopathy, acupuncture etc, he then went to his doctor and it turned out he had an abdominal aortic aneurysm)

Make sure you're looked after from a medical perspective. After that, if you think the medical profession can't help I guess you can go off in whatever direction you want. Without proper evidence for the efficacy of alternative therapy I can't really see anything in it though, medicine is the only route proven to work.

sorella

This beautiful; thank you.

Have had this happen to someone who was simply in the same room.
She was going to see a chiropractor after the meeting, but instead went and dug turf on the bog for several hours.

And many healers are "wounded healers": it does not work for us. Only through us.

There was a lady called Jennifer Rees Larcombe; her book is called "Unexpected Healing": she had incurable dystonia and was in a wheelchair and on massive meds. Healed instantly at a prayer meeting. There was a physio there who just could hardly believe that full muscle weight and tone had returned instantly. But she saw and felt it. Jennifer picked her wheelchair up even.

Healings at e.g Medjugorge are frequent and thoroughly authenticated; as at Lourdes. The Church is the most sceptical organisation there is.

Many times it is, like this, in cases where the drs cannot help.

The OP of course need to seek medical help; but the two can and often do work side by side.

dorothygale wrote: »

I used to have horrible back pain, I couldn't walk some days. I went to a healer and he solved it. This was after years of goign to doctors and chiropractors who would heal me but hten It would come back every few months. I have never had that problem again, he didn't even charge me. I wish I could remember his name or where he lived exactly. I was driving with my boss on the road to Dublin from Mayo (don't work for him anymore), but I believe it was in another county... I remember he was on an oxygen tank... My boss told me he was the real deal and that he cured a lady with cancer a few years ago.

I am an athiest, but he prayed over my back and did the sign of the cross. When I left, it stil hurt but 30 minutes later no pain and it hasn't come back.

I dunno about healers, all i know is my back hasn't hurt since.

mdebets

sorella wrote: »

Healings at e.g Medjugorge are frequent and thoroughly authenticated; as at Lourdes. The Church is the most sceptical organisation there is.

Sorry to disappoint you, but that's not true.
An estimate 200 Mio. people have visited Lourdes. Of them 67 have been healed (accepted healings by the Catholic Church). That's 0.0000335%.
I think even with a placebo effect the rate should have been higher.

Krusti

<sorry, we can't allow medical advice on this forum >

Mr.X

****ter_ wrote: »

Don't be silly. Stay away from the healer. You'd be better off burning the money.

Go to your doctor.

I agree

sorella

Yes it is true, given that the idea was that there are no authenticated healings, only anecdotal.

And knowing how healing is true, nothing statistical could 'disappoint" here.

Do you think I wrote not knowing these things? That is part of my work as a historian
.
"Estimated" is simply that; many who go are not ill. To escort/help the sick etc, or out of curiosity etc.

Those who were cured were the incurables. having exhausted all medical help.

And if you were cured, that is all that mattered; statistics are meaningless to this value.

There were many, many more healings eg a blind baby regained sight, witnessed , but the cure could not be assessed under the rigid RC system now abolished as the baby could not testify.

And of course Medjugorje is not at this time recognised by the Church so there are no statistics.

mdebets wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you, but that's not true.
An estimate 200 Mio. people have visited Lourdes. Of them 67 have been healed (accepted healings by the Catholic Church). That's 0.0000335%.
I think even with a placebo effect the rate should have been higher.

ttilting

hI op

i SUFFERED WITH chronic sciatica down m left leg/ bum/back. . . barlely able o get in and out of the car.

spent fortunes on all sorts and was due to have serious surgery on my bulging disk. (it was pressing on a nerve!)

Went to a guy called Mark Cleary in Ballyfermot (dublin 12). . . He was excellent. Took a good few sessions, , , cost a good few quid . . . but havn't had a problem in over 14 months and i can now play sport etc . . .

The consultant who recommended surery was amazed at my progress . . .

Anyway, , , If you want is number PM me ... but I remember he is difficult to get an appointment with, , , , and im only assuming he's still there.

good luck with your back pain, , , Its the most debilitating thing I've ever had wrong with me!

mdebets

Sorella, could you please make up your mind.
First you said

sorella wrote:

Healings at e.g Medjugorge are frequent and thoroughly authenticated; as at Lourdes. The Church is the most sceptical organisation there is.

then you said

sorella wrote: »

Yes it is true, given that the idea was that there are no authenticated healings, only anecdotal.

What is it, are these healings frequently authenticated or not?

sorella wrote: »

And knowing how healing is true, nothing statistical could 'disappoint" here.

Do you think I wrote not knowing these things? That is part of my work as a historian
.
"Estimated" is simply that; many who go are not ill. To escort/help the sick etc, or out of curiosity etc.

Let's have a look at the figures again and do another conservative estimate.
Let's assume that the number was totally overestimate and only 1% of these people were really there. That would make 2Mio visitors. Now assume that for every genuine sick person 9 non-sick person were there. Now we have 200.000 sick people having visited Lourdes. Now do your maths, still only 0.03 %.
Let's ask a doctor here, how this numbers relate to healing in hospitals? I would say they are much higher.
Now you're going to say, that not all healings are recorded or acknowledged by the Church. You have to think however that the Church has a vested interest in Lourdes. Do you honestly think, that they would undercount healings? No, they are going to count as much healings as possible. Therefore it is more likely that there were actually less then 67 healings.

sorella wrote: »

Those who were cured were the incurables. having exhausted all medical help.

And if you were cured, that is all that mattered; statistics are meaningless to this value.

There were many, many more healings eg a blind baby regained sight, witnessed , but the cure could not be assessed under the rigid RC system now abolished as the baby could not testify.

And of course Medjugorje is not at this time recognised by the Church so there are no statistics.

Statistics are not meaningless. A absence of a statistic says quite a lot.
If there were so many healing, as you claim, there would have been a statistic long ago, showing exactly this, the many many people that were healed. That this statistic doesn't exist tells you that the healings don't exist.

Another thing you should ask yourself is, why does Lourdes needs a hospital, if the people could just be healed?

Healers and Healing places have existed since antiquity. But they never removed the need for conventional doctors. Surely at least one of them should have been so good that there was no need for doctors anymore.

Another question is as to why none of the many healers ever did a publicity act, like going to the local hospital and healing all the people in there, his success afterwards would be immense.

At the very least, why does non of these healers did a large study, to show that their patients were really healed. After all, that would be very easy to have a before and after examination by an independent doctor.

On a personal note, I must really say I'm disappointed when a Christian (especcially a nun) falls for this sort of mambo-jambo, as I really think it cheapens the Christian faith (and I'm saying this as a Christian).
Do I believe God heals: yes; does he need a human medium or a place for it: no, why would he; would I ever advice someone to go and see a faith healer: never, but I would pray that he would be healed, by a doctor or God, but not by a healer

AtomicHorror

sorella wrote: »

Healing, simply.

What a healer can offer you, I mean.

But attitude is everything.

And most healers will advise a dr; they are not irresponsible. As you say of course.

But healing is well documented.

Faith healing is indeed well-documented and demonstrated not to work, beyond a placebo effect. The Cochrane library did a systematic review of randomised controlled trials on intercessory prayer and found that while some small studies found vague positive effects, when analysed all together (covering some 7000 or more cases) there was basically nothing happening at all.

You can read the for free study here:

http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD000368/pdf_fs.html

OP, go to a doctor.

ttilting

OP go to a doctor for a 4 minute waste of time & 50euro . .. . .

While ''faith'' healing is mot for everyone . . .

At very least consider alternative medicine. . .

Western medicine =will lead to a surgical operation.

AtomicHorror

ttilting wrote: »

OP go to a doctor for a 4 minute waste of time & 50euro . .. . .

Oh spare us please. Yes GPs are not perfect, but if you're really ill a real doctor is never a waste of time or money.

ttilting wrote: »

While ''faith'' healing is mot for everyone . . .

At very least consider alternative medicine. . .

There's medicine that is known to work based on evidence from carefully controlled trials and there is medicine that is not. "Alternative" is a blanket term typically applied to the latter to create the illusion that the distinction lies elsewhere, that they're providing an effective alternative to those mean old pharmaceuticals companies and the medical establishment. There are plenty of cases where both sides are actually being run by the same company or are as big and bad as each other. But aside from that, they are not at all equals. Look at the trials, the evidence. The rest is irrelevant.

That evidence says faith healing does not work.

ttilting wrote: »

Western medicine =will lead to a surgical operation.

Funny. I've used western medicine every day for over 25 years without surgery. I've gone to my GP perhaps 70-80 times during my life. No surgery.

The evidence says ttilting's Law doesn't work.

sorella

Well, you know, we hear all this so often.

That is your take on it; ours is very different.

And to us it is not "mumbo jumbo"

So let us agree to disagree on this.

We do not assess Jesus by statistics, but by love, simply and power.

And by deep humility before Him and beforfe Him only. And deep thankfulness for His healing.

The OP asked re healers; we responded as others have with our faith and our skill and experience.

That is the end of it for us.

If you have problems with that; tough...

We respect your right to hold your views, but we do not agree with them - period.

We KNOW healing is real; by faith, by prayer... as Jesus wills it.
Statistics are meaningless in this area.

And we are most certainly not being drawn into arguments on this; far too busy working to feed our babies!!

Over and out.

Blessings this day

mdebets wrote: »

Sorella, could you please make up your mind.
First you said



then you said



What is it, are these healings frequently authenticated or not?



Let's have a look at the figures again and do another conservative estimate.
Let's assume that the number was totally overestimate and only 1% of these people were really there. That would make 2Mio visitors. Now assume that for every genuine sick person 9 non-sick person were there. Now we have 200.000 sick people having visited Lourdes. Now do your maths, still only 0.03 %.
Let's ask a doctor here, how this numbers relate to healing in hospitals? I would say they are much higher.
Now you're going to say, that not all healings are recorded or acknowledged by the Church. You have to think however that the Church has a vested interest in Lourdes. Do you honestly think, that they would undercount healings? No, they are going to count as much healings as possible. Therefore it is more likely that there were actually less then 67 healings.



Statistics are not meaningless. A absence of a statistic says quite a lot.
If there were so many healing, as you claim, there would have been a statistic long ago, showing exactly this, the many many people that were healed. That this statistic doesn't exist tells you that the healings don't exist.

Another thing you should ask yourself is, why does Lourdes needs a hospital, if the people could just be healed?

Healers and Healing places have existed since antiquity. But they never removed the need for conventional doctors. Surely at least one of them should have been so good that there was no need for doctors anymore.

Another question is as to why none of the many healers ever did a publicity act, like going to the local hospital and healing all the people in there, his success afterwards would be immense.

At the very least, why does non of these healers did a large study, to show that their patients were really healed. After all, that would be very easy to have a before and after examination by an independent doctor.

On a personal note, I must really say I'm disappointed when a Christian (especcially a nun) falls for this sort of mambo-jambo, as I really think it cheapens the Christian faith (and I'm saying this as a Christian).
Do I believe God heals: yes; does he need a human medium or a place for it: no, why would he; would I ever advice someone to go and see a faith healer: never, but I would pray that he would be healed, by a doctor or God, but not by a healer

sorella

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

You have your awareness; we have ours. Based on long decades of experience. Of healings real and strong and permanent.

And in this we trust always.

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

Over and out

Bless you!

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Faith healing is indeed well-documented and demonstrated not to work, beyond a placebo effect. The Cochrane library did a systematic review of randomised controlled trials on intercessory prayer and found that while some small studies found vague positive effects, when analysed all together (covering some 7000 or more cases) there was basically nothing happening at all.

You can read the for free study here:

http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD000368/pdf_fs.html

OP, go to a doctor.

mdebets

sorella wrote: »

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

If this studies would exist and they were scientific I would belief them. So show them to me and enlighten me.

sorella wrote: »

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

I find that comment of yours quite funny. You accuse AtomicHorror of trying to control and test God, yet he is not doing such thing.
You on the other hand are doing exatly this.
You say to the OP go to a healer to be healed. So you basicly telling him if he is sick God (through a healer) will heal them. You basiclly tell him that he can command God to heal the sick. So who is ordering God arround?

norrie rugger

sorella wrote: »

You have google.

Abundant evidence.

Blessings and bye!!!

Over and out......

Please point me to evidence not google.

norrie rugger

sorella wrote: »

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

You have your awareness; we have ours. Based on long decades of experience. Of healings real and strong and permanent.

And in this we trust always.

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

Over and out

Bless you!

Please show us these studies.
Independantly reviewed studies perchance?

Of course not because none of it is repeatable


Edit:
Also, please do not assume that everyone wants blessings. Not everyone would share your view on religion.

DeVore

Your anecdotes have done more to convince me then real science ever could.... :rolleyes:

What a crock.

OP, if you have lower back pain or muscular pain go to a sports physio.

I recommend Samuel in www.the-elbowroom.com . I'm seeing him at the moment for problems since my snowboarding accident. He's brilliant. I've seen a few sports physios in my time and this guy is amazing, really amazing. He uses a combination of accupunture and deep muscle massage, but everything he does is based in real world science, he explains how the muscles work and why doing these physical things has a physical, almost engineeering-like, effect on the skeletal structure.

He charges 50 euro for an hour and I have been going since Sept. I could have stopped in Dec but it really improves my body and I feel great after it so I kept going!

But this stuff isnt voodoo, he has a stack of qualifications from sports therapy universities. He explains the science and his knowledge is extremely deep about muscles and the skeleton. He doesnt wave hands, or place crystals, he simply gets into your muscles and fixes things.

He leave for the US to work in a teaching hospital in May so go. Today.

DeV.

the_syco

sorella wrote: »

Well, you know, we hear all this so often.

That is your take on it; ours is very different.

And to us it is not "mumbo jumbo"

So let us agree to disagree on this.

We do not assess Jesus by statistics, but by love, simply and power.

And by deep humility before Him and beforfe Him only. And deep thankfulness for His healing.

The OP asked re healers; we responded as others have with our faith and our skill and experience.

That is the end of it for us.

If you have problems with that; tough...

We respect your right to hold your views, but we do not agree with them - period.

We KNOW healing is real; by faith, by prayer... as Jesus wills it.
Statistics are meaningless in this area.

And we are most certainly not being drawn into arguments on this; far too busy working to feed our babies!!

Over and out.

Blessings this day

So you speak on behalf of all healers? You say "Statistics are meaningless in this area", but I say nay, statistics are not meaningless, as they can show how many times the procedure worked.

I broke my arm recently. Would love to see how you healers would mend that without putting the bone back in place...

=-=

You say hundreds of studies, give me one, done by a scientist. A real scientist, and not one of the plonkers without any certs.

norrie rugger

DeVore wrote: »

You're anecdotes have done more to convince me then real science ever could.... :rolleyes:

What a crock.

OP, if you have lower back pain or muscular pain go to a sports physio.

I recommend Samuel in www.the-elbowroom.com . I'm seeing him at the moment for problems since my snowboarding accident. He's brilliant. I've seen a few sports physios in my time and this guy is amazing, really amazing. He uses a combination of accupunture and deep muscle massage, but everything he does is based in real world science, he explains how the muscles work and why doing these physical things has a physical, almost engineeering-like, effect on the skeletal structure.

He charges 50 euro for an hour and I have been going since Sept. I could have stopped in Dec but it really improves my body and I feel great after it so I kept going!

But this stuff isnt voodoo, he has a stack of qualifications from sports therapy universities. He explains the science and his knowledge is extremely deep about muscles and the skeleton. He doesnt wave hands, or place crystals, he simply gets into your muscles and fixes things.

He leave for the US to work in a teaching hospital in May so go. Today.

DeV.

If I were the OP I would get a doctor to examine a scan first, then physio.

I would imagine that the physio would prob tell him to get it done anyway. All the physio's that I have been to wanted a doctor's appraisal, before they would touch me.

You are completely right though, why should we listen to the combined learned/repeatable/recorded/practiced/reviewed knowledge, of the sciences, when we have anecdotal evidence and assurances that statistics are meaningless

AtomicHorror

sorella wrote: »

C**p in a word....

We could give you literally hundreds of studies that prove the direct opposite of this.

But would they all be randomised and placebo controlled? There are important reasons why we do these things.

sorella wrote: »

But you would still disbelieve, so not worth the bother.

If this were true we would never have come to understand how the placebo effect works. We'd still just assume it to be impossible. You think us closed minded Sorella. That is quite unfair.

sorella wrote: »

You have your awareness; we have ours. Based on long decades of experience. Of healings real and strong and permanent.

And how can you tell the difference between such healing and mere coincidence? I realise that you consider faith a virtue and testing to be in some manner bad. But you wouldn't apply that same logic to a cancer drug, nor to the safety testing of your car. So why apply it here? A thing either works or it does not. If it works, it should work when we are looking at it as well as when we do not.

sorella wrote: »

And in this we trust always.

So we work and pray on; and Jesus continues to heal.

We do not question God or put Him to the test as you do.

I understand how faith works, but we're talking about people's lives and health. If you would give them hope, then it would be best to be sure that it's justified.

sorella wrote: »

Do you really think you can control and order God in this way? He is not mocked.

Over and out

Bless you!

Sorella, I'm not going to get into a debate about whether faith is a virtue or why this is so. Nor whether testing the world with our God-given senses and our God-given reason could be considered mockery. Instead I would advise that you read Ben Goldacre's Bad Science or similar as a nice introduction to why trials and statistics are so important to what we know and how we know it. It also contains a chapter on human psychology with respect to evidence, explaining why we developed science in the first place. If you are truly open-minded I would ask that you take a look at the book.

norrie rugger

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Instead I would advise that you read Ben Goldacre's Bad Science or similar as a nice introduction to why trials and statistics are so important to what we know and how we know it. It also contains a chapter on human psychology with respect to evidence, explaining why we developed science in the first place.

I have heard conflicting review of this book, is it worth a read?

AtomicHorror

norrie rugger wrote: »

I have heard conflicting review of this book, is it worth a read?

I liked it. Bit repetitive in places and a bit tricky in others, but very good overall. Alternatively there's a really good chapter on confirmation bias etc in Derren Brown's book Tricks of the Mind. He touches on pseudoscience and alternative medicine as a part of that but does so from a specifically atheistic point of view. Goldacre's not interested in religion, just in medicine.

ruxpin82

hey folks, OP back again,
thanks for all the replies, i think i opened up a can of worms, went a bit off topic there.
i've got a few usefull links thanks and i still remain open minded about the whole healer/bonesetter thing. Im not really interested in statistics, id try anything to get this sorted, i think by default, the normal medical option would be the longest, most drawn out process, with lots of passing the buck so to speak, not that id rule it out either.
Anyway thanks for your help, must go for a lie down, backs killin' me.:(

DeVore

Rux, please please go see Samuel. He'll feel you from ankle to neck (ooh err missus) and give you a diagnosis. If you need to see a doc he'll be the first to tell you, he's very good that way. You could well be suffering for nothing. Its 50 quid and you'll get a nice rub down into the bargain.

Look, if you go and he is of no help at all, I'll give you the 50 back. How about that? I'm that sure he will at least be able to point you in the direction of the final solution, but I'd bet he's able to do more then that.

Btw, I'm not on commission hahaha

DeV.

norrie rugger

DeVore wrote: »

Rux, please please go see Samuel. He'll feel you from ankle to neck (ooh err missus) and give you a diagnosis. If you need to see a doc he'll be the first to tell you, he's very good that way. You could well be suffering for nothing. Its 50 quid and you'll get a nice rub down into the bargain.

Look, if you go and he is of no help at all, I'll give you the 50 back. How about that? I'm that sure he will at least be able to point you in the direction of the final solution, but I'd bet he's able to do more then that.

Btw, I'm not on commission hahaha

DeV.

I have a pain in my lower back sometimes also, do we all get this offer if we go to him??

DeVore

hehehe yeah, right. I'm stupid but I aint an idiot!
He's the Dream* Physio Everyone!!


*Your Dreams And The Dreams Of The Krusty Corporation May Differ!


DeV

DrIndy

DeVore wrote: »

hehehe yeah, right. I'm stupid but I aint an idiot!
He's the Dream* Physio Everyone!!


*Your Dreams And The Dreams Of The Krusty Corporation May Differ!


DeV

LOL

If you go to a chartered physio - you will get referred medically appropriately if you need to be - unlike attending alternative medicine practitioners.

I've a pain in me arse - what can be done?

norrie rugger

DrIndy wrote: »

LOL

If you go to a chartered physio - you will get referred medically appropriately if you need to be - unlike attending alternative medicine practitioners.

I've a pain in me arse - what can be done?

How are we ment to know?
You're the doctor:D

you could always try getting up off of it

DrIndy

tomthumbelina

ruxpin82 wrote: »

Hey there,
im a guy in my mid twenties and i suffer a bit with my lower back. i think its to do with my siatic nerve, sharp pain when bending awkardly, tends to be just the one side but lately its either side, sudden movement/reflexes cause pain aswell, its not a constant pain but i'm always conscious of it because its easily agrovated. My back just isn't right and i'm worried it's getting worse. I'm not over weight or anything, took a fall from a horse when i was 12 and it kind of started from there, not helped either by years of pullin' and draggin' on the farm i guess.

I'm sure many of you heard about john liston morgan, the healer who was on the Ray D'arcy show last week. I eventually got through on the phone to be told that because of his appearence on the show, next available appointment is in October.
Anyway, i am absolutely loathed at the idea of spinal operations, and i believe going to a GP about it is a waste of 50euro, so i'd like to try the healer option. It may be bollox, it may not, but its definately worth a go, so if anyone knows of other 'healers' around the country i d love to know.
Thanks for reading.

I know liston morgan , and hes nothing more than a con man who enjoys playing on desperation - a charlaton like 99% of (healers ) .
For as long as he doesnt charge you may as well go and find out for yourself - all you be wasting is your time .
See a reputable bone-setter.

tomthumbelina

sorella wrote: »

Well, you know, we hear all this so often.

That is your take on it; ours is very different.

And to us it is not "mumbo jumbo"

So let us agree to disagree on this.

We do not assess Jesus by statistics, but by love, simply and power.

And by deep humility before Him and beforfe Him only. And deep thankfulness for His healing.

The OP asked re healers; we responded as others have with our faith and our skill and experience.

That is the end of it for us.

If you have problems with that; tough...

We respect your right to hold your views, but we do not agree with them - period.

We KNOW healing is real; by faith, by prayer... as Jesus wills it.
Statistics are meaningless in this area.

And we are most certainly not being drawn into arguments on this; far too busy working to feed our babies!!

Over and out.

Blessings this day

Read 'The God delusion' by Dawkins it will open your eyes!

anne h.

Hi

Acupuncture is great for sciatica and back pain. It's safe, pain free and effective and reccomended for over 100 health problms by the world health organisations, including backache and sciatica.

I'm an acupuncturist and I know that acupuncture is great for sciatica and backache first hand*

Check holisto.com for someone local to you with good accreditation, such as T.C.M.C.I.

I say go local as most people who drive hours away to someone only end up going once or twice as it's such a trial to get there.

I've heard terrible stories about healers ripping people off and when you think about it its so easy for anyone to set themselfes up as a healer.

When someone's gone through a few years at college, paid a lot of money to study a subject in depth, sat a lot of exams etc.. there have more credibility I think and it lessens the odd's they're some kind of charlatan.

Well in this field anyways where people are so vunlnerable.

Anyway's good luck!

Anne

*(P.S i'm absolutely catagorically not touting for business, the only way I can prove this is if anyone did happen to contact me for an appointment i won't reply).