Flawed social welfare system

ShooterSF · 11-02-2009 07:54PM

brosps wrote: »

I was reading some of the threads on AH and i just thought how incredibly illogical the dole is, espicially in a time of recession wasting tax payers money on people who don't have a chance of contributing back to society in the near future just seems so infuriating.

Why don't dole recievers at least have mandatory community service, or contribute to a public sector. If i were on the dole [which i might look into soon lol l:> ] I would find it perceftly acceptable for tax payers to withhold my "earnings" unless I took a mandatory class in domestic economics, or worked a part-time shift down the local gardai station.

I don't pay tax as I'm a leeching student but I hate the fact that there is this huge hole in state spending that could potentially bring a return but won't.

Silly question I suppose but am I being a scroungry right-wing capatilist-head or does anyone else agree with me ?

brosps wrote: »

What i meant by saving tax euros is that it would certainly stop any kind of leakages and dole scammers. People with jobs that have cash in hand would find it pretty much physically impossible to take advantage of the system which is appereantly quite a problem.

It would also increase the set of skills our potential work force would have and attract foreign companys but w/e

Well you might need to be a bit clearer in your original post if it's scammers you have an issue with. You seem to have grouped everyone into one.
I dont think its the way to resolve such issues.

Quazzie · 11-02-2009 07:55PM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

What kind of job would you feel would work on a large scale?

Well nearly every road near me is littered with potholes. Why not have the long term dole recipients out doing that. There is no argument that they are taking jobs because at the moment the council don't have the resources to do it. If we are already paying them then they should earn it. Working full time isn't really an option but working a minimum time frame, like say 20 hours a week is.

Fair enough the dole is like an insurance, and its one we all appreciate it, and hope we never have to use it. But being on the dole for over 3 months means that re-employment is looking less likely. So why not have them out there working short term low skill contracts, or have them attending training courses. One example would be blocklayers that are currently on the dole should be made attend a course that educated them about insulation installation, and other green initiatives that might actually help them when they get back to regular employment.

There is nearly no one out there that couldn't learn more to make them more employable.

cornnb if it takes you all week to type some cv's then I'd be practicing my typing more.

brosps · 11-02-2009 07:55PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzFQl9s5KAE

watch this and you might become a slight less ignorant

Guy:Incognito · 11-02-2009 07:58PM

javaboy wrote: »

e.g If each dole recipient picked up 3 or 4 pieces of litter a day, that would be a million pieces of rubbish gone in a day.

Or if people were'nt knackers in the first place there wouldnt be rubbish to pick up.:)

brosps wrote: »

True but what about the majority of taxpayers who never go on the dole?

Would you rather have no job? When I lose mine (which is looking likely) I'll gladly swap with you if you like.

Boston wrote: »

How is someone meant to find a job when they're spending their days working for the government.

There would be no problem givign them time off to attend interviews, providing they prove they didnt just head down the pub instead.

pipsqueak · 11-02-2009 08:00PM

The Govt should bring in the credit card system style of dole payments like the have in regions of Italy. When you get your dole you get credits on your card and you can go to shops and use your card to buy essentials like food, fuel etc.
I believe that there are plenty of children in Ireland today going without food, medicine even though their parents are receiving dole/childers allowance and squandering it on non essentials.

brosps · 11-02-2009 08:02PM

Stekelly wrote: »

Would you rather have no job? When I lose mine (which is looking likely) I'll gladly swap with you if you like.

I don't have a job...can't find one in fact, but i dont need the dole so i don't ask for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzFQl9s5KAE

what pipsqueak said would also be a great alternative, the current system just isn't healthy for an economy at all, or an indvidual really.

Alessandra · 11-02-2009 08:03PM

I think you will find a very high proportion of those on the dole are not choosing it as a lifestyle.. There simply aren't the jobs out there.

However to a certain extent I agree that those who do not attempt to better their situation(ie serial scroungers) should be forced to contribute something back to society.

People who have just been made redundant on the other hand are finding it demoralising enough without being made to do community service to pay back what they have paid for through tax in the first place!

bikki · 11-02-2009 08:04PM

You mean butter vouchers.

Lets c, ive been working almost every day since i was 17 in the building game. Im 29 now so 12 years of paying tax, i think i was on 40% at one point also. And all u think im intitled to is Butter vouchers and picking up litter?

bikki · 11-02-2009 08:05PM

brosps wrote: »

I don't have a job...can't find one in fact, but i dont need the dole so i don't ask for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzFQl9s5KAE

what pipsqueak said would also be a great alternative, the current system just isn't healthy for an economy at all, or an indvidual really.

And more fool u for not asking for it, u still get tax credits.

Jet Black · 11-02-2009 08:07PM

This could work.. but still would never happen.

Quazzie · 11-02-2009 08:10PM

heymcflyx wrote: »

This could work.. but still would never happen.

Seriously how can we start a campaign to get that put into action here?

Lockstep · 11-02-2009 08:30PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Well nearly every road near me is littered with potholes. Why not have the long term dole recipients out doing that. There is no argument that they are taking jobs because at the moment the council don't have the resources to do it. If we are already paying them then they should earn it. Working full time isn't really an option but working a minimum time frame, like say 20 hours a week is.

And what happens to the road laying companies and their workers?

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Fair enough the dole is like an insurance, and its one we all appreciate it, and hope we never have to use it. But being on the dole for over 3 months means that re-employment is looking less likely. So why not have them out there working short term low skill contracts, or have them attending training courses. One example would be blocklayers that are currently on the dole should be made attend a course that educated them about insulation installation, and other green initiatives that might actually help them when they get back to regular employment.

Again, we run the risk of undercutting those who the job as a profession.

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

There is nearly no one out there that couldn't learn more to make them more employable.

True, but education and work are two seperate things.

banshee_bones · 11-02-2009 08:34PM

brosps wrote: »

Obviously the people on the dole are hating on me right now

eh. YES

deadhead13 · 11-02-2009 08:42PM

brosps wrote: »

I was reading some of the threads on AH and i just thought how incredibly illogical the dole is, espicially in a time of recession wasting tax payers money on people who don't have a chance of contributing back to society in the near future just seems so infuriating.

Why don't dole recievers at least have mandatory community service, or contribute to a public sector. If i were on the dole [which i might look into soon lol l:> ] I would find it perceftly acceptable for tax payers to withhold my "earnings" unless I took a mandatory class in domestic economics, or worked a part-time shift down the local gardai station.

I don't pay tax as I'm a leeching student but I hate the fact that there is this huge hole in state spending that could potentially bring a return but won't.

Silly question I suppose but am I being a scroungry right-wing capatilist-head or does anyone else agree with me ?

As you are a student, it might interest you to know, that it is expected that 70,000 graduates will be unemployed by the end of the year. But unlike the 80's emigration won't be an option. Come back to us after you have been out in the the worst labour market since the great depression and lets see if you are still spouting this garbage.

Quazzie · 11-02-2009 08:43PM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

And what happens to the road laying companies and their workers?

Well at the moment they are doing nothing about the roads so it won't affect them. They seem to have disappeared and when I rang the council reporting a road that is particularly bad I was told that there are no resources to fund the road improvements so they won't be doing anything about it.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Again, we run the risk of undercutting those who the job as a profession.

Same as above. So many council jobs are doing nothing at the moment and I'm syre they'd only be too happy to have 150hrs of labour available per week in every village. btw thats only ten people working 15 hours a week labour so the 150hrs is actually severely low.

kickoutthejams wrote: »

True, but education and work are two seperate things.

Why not try to incorporate them both. There are so many jobs at the moment that require just labour and would involve teaching a new skill that simply can't be done, due to lack of funds. There are funds there but they are just put into the wrong areas. Paying someone who has been on the dole for a year is wrong on so many levels. That money, or that person can be used much better somewhere else

brosps · 11-02-2009 08:45PM

so many of you are so stupid, you deserve to be on the dole

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

mabey if youd spend less time trying to rationalize your leeching habits and more time actually working you might get a job, or mabey just realise that you arnt entitled to freebies

ejmaztec · 11-02-2009 08:47PM

Perhaps the OP, when he finishes college, would consider taking his place on a large treadmill that I am working on. This will ensure free electricity for all. It's going to be called Doletricity.

There will also be free spelling lessons.

Jet Black · 11-02-2009 08:49PM

brosps wrote: »

so many of you are so stupid, you deserve to be on the dole

Im not on the dole, I run the country.. First point accepted:D

bikki · 11-02-2009 08:50PM

brosps wrote: »

so many of you are so stupid, you deserve to be on the dole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

mabey if youd spend less time trying to rationalize your leeching habits and more time actually working you might get a job, or mabey just realise that you arnt entitled to freebies

Well the fact that u have no job ur leeching off something? Also if ur not paying tax then why should u have a say in how its spent?

Jet Black · 11-02-2009 08:53PM

brosps wrote: »

so many of you are so stupid, you deserve to be on the dole

mabey if youd spend less time trying to rationalize your leeching habits and more time actually working you might get a job, or mabey just realise that you arnt entitled to freebies

Education is free? Well paid by the tax payers.

bikki · 11-02-2009 08:56PM

Its people like the op that are one of the things wrong with this country.

Quazzie · 11-02-2009 09:00PM

bikki wrote: »

Its people like the op that are one of the things wrong with this country.

For thinking outside the box and making a suggestion that actually sparks debate and makes sense.

Fair enough he went on a bit of a tangent towards the but most of his points are valid. Maybe you should try some lateral thinking yourself?

brosps · 11-02-2009 09:00PM

im a ledgehed you cant talk to me like this

Quazzie · 11-02-2009 09:02PM

brosps wrote: »

im a ledgehed you cant talk to me like this

Please stop you are making every good post you made earlier looks as stupid as that one with **** like that

Mena · 11-02-2009 09:04PM

brosps wrote: »

so many of you are so stupid, you deserve to be on the dole

mabey if youd spend less time trying to rationalize your leeching habits and more time actually working you might get a job, or mabey just realise that you arnt entitled to freebies

If you want to call people stupid, first ensure you can actually spell when typing out the insult. It makes you look slightly less pitiful.

Jobseekers Benefit is not free, you pay for it with your PRSI. I suggest you get a clue before returning back to this fora.

Thank you.

spudster101 · 11-02-2009 09:16PM

How much would this cost to implement, supervise, training, etc. Would people go out and do a half assed job.

I dont want to be driving down a road and find my shocks comin up through the bonnet cause some guy filled the pothole 10 inches above the road surface.:D

What about people in welfare offices and their jobs.

Kintarō Hattori · 11-02-2009 09:22PM

I find it hilarious and ironic that a student is complaining about the social welfare system. When you join the workforce a percentage of your earnings go towards the social welfare system which entitle you to receive it should you ever find yourself unemployed.

It is a very useful system that should be a hand up in times of need rather than a hand out. I do agree that people on the dole should give a set amount of time per week to help improve their community. It is simply silly that a huge potential 'workforce' is not being utilised in this way. Apart from improving their locality I can only image that a system like this would give a greater sense of 'community' to many individuals, something which seems to be lacking these days.

echosound · 11-02-2009 10:03PM

^^
they do actually run schemes - community employment schemes - for the long term unemployed.

Roles involve working with community organisations/helping maintain schools/common areas/graveyards/community halls etc, and support work for various organisations which are mainly not-for-profit (admin for the likes of various art/theatre groups, carers' associations, etc etc).

As for the OP - you are still in college, getting a FREE education at the taxpayer's cost, your parents have been getting children's allowance for you for your entire life (which is paid for by the taxpayer), presumably you are still being kept by your parents (you say you are leeching).

You also say you can't find work, well, if you can't, what makes you think every single every other person of working age in Ireland can? Most people don't choose to go on the dole, it's normally a result of losing their jobs.

People who are on the dole (apart from the career benefit-drawers obviously) generally are not getting freebies; they have paid for it via PRSI throughout their working life.

Possibly be prepared for a sharp awakening once you leave college and find yourself unable to get a job then either with your shiny new degree, just like thousands of other new graduates.

A degree or a masters won't prevent you from perhaps one day needing to rely on jobseeker's benefit, as many people currently on the dole queues - after putting themselves through college for degrees and masters, and then working all their life - will tell you.

cornbb · 11-02-2009 10:10PM

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

cornnb if it takes you all week to type some cv's then I'd be practicing my typing more.

Customising CVs, writing targeted cover letters, talking with recruitment agents, and preparing for and travelling to interviews takes more time than you would think. Not to mention dealing with record-breaking queues at the dole office. On top of that, I've been asked to write a piece of software to test my programming skills as part of the interview process for one particular job - that task alone is worth several weeks of fulltime work.

I find it hilarious that job-seekers are on one hand accused of being lazy and idle, and on the other hand it looks like you are accusing me of spending too much time looking for a job.

DadaKopf · 11-02-2009 10:12PM

True but what about the majority of taxpayers who never go on the dole?

What about all those people who pay for car insurance but never have a crash?

It's called social insurance for a reason - in case you lose a job, get sick, get robbed, etc. It's a public good, so pay for it.

Flawed social welfare system

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