Fek Democracy. How about an extra vote with each level of education.

stovelid · 11-02-2009 01:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well all the people I know from college would have a better informed vote than a knacker from southill.

Wish I went to a college like you.

A lot of students that I knew in college were just as bereft or ideas and opinions as anybody else, underneath the received cultural and social veneer.

asdasd · 11-02-2009 01:45PM

I honestly think that someone who has a PHD in Economics should have more voting power than someone who dropped out at Junior Cert.

If we give the more educated members of society more voting power, it'd stop gob****es who don't know anything wreckin our economy.

Worth putting these two sentences together even if the intent were not humourous.

Economy was not wrecked by PHD graduates in banking( and economics), but taxidrivers, shopkeepers, and cleaners. Tell Obama. He is going after the wrong people

Still though, a ban on people with silly non technical degrees (sociology, journalism,law etc.) voting would be a welcome devleopment.

kowloon · 11-02-2009 01:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well all the people I know from college would have a better informed vote than a knacker from southill.

Do I detect a hint of class hate here?

thebigcheese22 · 11-02-2009 01:45PM

kowloon wrote: »

But if we return to property qualifications I won't be able to coerce my uneducated tenants into placing votes for me or my peers.
Fetch my port, you swine!

lol!

But still, educated people voted legends like David Norris into the Seanad so I'm fully behind the idea! Screw the riff-raff!

Tom65 · 11-02-2009 01:50PM

RATM wrote: »

Ah wasn't this Plato's idea- the notion of the philosopher king. To be ruled by the most intelligent in society and all that.

Would never work, human nature is all about self interest. And the self interest of a Phd holding economist is very different to that of a regular working man.

People don't vote according to self-interest as much as you'd think. Think of the number of working class in the US who vote for Republicans who support tax cuts for the rich. Even here, FF have a big working class support despite not exactly being the party of the poor. Same goes for the Greens, who fare much better in high income areas.

Húrin · 11-02-2009 01:53PM

RATM wrote: »

Ah wasn't this Plato's idea- the notion of the philosopher king. To be ruled by the most intelligent in society and all that.

Would never work, human nature is all about self interest

self interest =/= greed

kowloon · 11-02-2009 01:57PM

How about something truely radical: evryone receives a poker chips to the value of one vote. We have a big poker tournament and the winner, presumably the most devious fcuker in the country, with bluffing skills second to none, gets to cash in the chips and lead the nation.

asdasd · 11-02-2009 01:58PM

Think of the number of working class in the US who vote for Republicans who support tax cuts for the rich. Even here, FF have a big working class support despite not exactly being the party of the poor. Same goes for the Greens, who fare much better in high income areas.

Generally this is rubbish. People vote for tax cuts, not just for the rich. That is in their self interest, even if it is greedy.

FF spend quite a lot of money on the poor - look at the Dole payments here compared to the UK with a socialist party ( also historically it has created the welfare State here), and greenism is just sanctimonious self righteous hypocrisy - best example being the support of Carbon taxes for air flight, not a rationing system. The result of that is less chavs on planes, which is good for the upper middle classes.

11-02-2009 02:02PM

kowloon wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of class hate here?

yea ya do. i'm not ashamed of the fact that i have no love nor forgiveness for certain classes of society :rolleyes:

chosen1 · 11-02-2009 02:03PM

Think its a completely stupid idea basing it on education. As other posters have said the political type in college tended to be either extremists, weirdos or hippies. (mainly hippies as seen in students unions countrywide). Not only that but many people that complete degrees are only book-smart i.e. get all their information from opinions of others and have absolutely no real world experience or ideas.

Have worked in several factories around the country and I have to say the intelligence of some people who barely got through national school is unbelievable. Their sharpness on current events and quick wit would destroy the majority of college graduates.

All that said, I would agree with denying some people having an equal vote as others. Lisbon treaty does spring to mind where I saw many people voted against it thinking their children would be sent to the front line of the European armys war against.... Likewise for people who voted yes only through blindly following a particular party and never bothering to even find out what its was about. Even "the Irish Sun" influenced people on their vote for gods sake

If I were to set a criteria it wouldn't be on educational qualifications but more like general knowledge on current events like a question on who won the last 3 big brothers. If anyone answers correctly they should be stuck of the voting registrar for life

11-02-2009 02:09PM

chosen1 wrote: »

If I were to set a criteria it wouldn't be on educational qualifications but more like general knowledge on current events like a question on who won the last 3 big brothers. If anyone answers correctly they should be stuck of the voting registrar for life

hmm.. education > knowledge of current events?

people don't put table quizes on their cvs

asdasd · 11-02-2009 02:15PM

Have worked in several factories around the country and I have to say the intelligence of some people who barely got through national school is unbelievable. Their sharpness on current events and quick wit would destroy the majority of college graduates.

My aunt is like this.

All that said, I would agree with denying some people having an equal vote as others. Lisbon treaty does spring to mind where I saw many people voted against it thinking their children would be sent to the front line of the European armys war against.... Likewise for people who voted yes only through blindly following a particular party and never bothering to even find out what its was about. Even "the Irish Sun" influenced people on their vote for gods sake

Clearly the Yes voters were more influenced as there was more ruling class support of the YES position. In fact FF voters who voted NO, proved they werent sheep.

The entertaining thing here is that I am old enough - early thirties - to remember when neutrality was a big issue in every European referendum, and largely it was the right-ons who write to the Irish Times who would bring it up. Back then, the vote against the EU was in the leafy suburbs. The change of opinion here is more to do with what is fashionable with a middle class than anything else, and if fact that fashionable opinion is largely confined to graduates - though not all - the working classes make up their own minds.

chosen1 · 11-02-2009 02:15PM

As I said before, being booksmart doesnt make you well informed

The Mad Hatter · 11-02-2009 02:20PM

kowloon wrote: »

How about something truely radical: evryone receives a poker chips to the value of one vote. We have a big poker tournament and the winner, presumably the most devious fcuker in the country, with bluffing skills second to none, gets to cash in the chips and lead the nation.

That's what we have already, only without the poker chips.

Kev_ps3 · 11-02-2009 02:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well all the people I know from college would have a better informed vote than a knacker from southill.

What exactly do you mean by "better informed vote"?

Kev_ps3 · 11-02-2009 02:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

yea ya do. i'm not ashamed of the fact that i have no love nor forgiveness for certain classes of society :rolleyes:

So in other words you hate poor Irish people? :rolleyes:

asdasd · 11-02-2009 02:37PM

So in other words you hate poor Irish people?

There was a time that was unfashionable too.

To be fair though, he would ban Bill Cullen from voting as well. So he is opposed to those born poor, or who didnt bother getting a third in sociology at uni, but were succesful elsewhere.

If Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates could vote here - they'd be out too. And Fergie. The list goes on.

11-02-2009 02:37PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by "better informed vote"?

are you serious? you can't work out exactly what i mean?

asdasd · 11-02-2009 02:40PM

you can't work out exactly what i mean?

We understood the words. Not sure why your third in sociology makes you"better informed" than Alex Ferguson, Bono, Bob Geldof, Bill Gates, Bill Cullen etc.

And for each of these, hundreds of thousands more without that third in sociology with plenty more smarts than y'all.

11-02-2009 02:42PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

So in other words you hate poor Irish people? :rolleyes:

you're the one who just made a bad generalisation.. :rolleyes:

11-02-2009 02:44PM

asdasd wrote: »

We understood the words. Not sure why your third in sociology makes you"better informed" than Alex Ferguson, Bono, Bob Geldof, Bill Gates, Bill Cullen etc.

And for each of these, hundreds of thousands more without that third in sociology with plenty more smarts than y'all.

i read the independant, bloomberg and google finance while on boards.ie

right about now, the people i'm on about are shooting heroin.

who's better informed?

Ostrom · 11-02-2009 02:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

/Opens can of worms

I honestly think that someone who has a PHD in Economics should have more voting power than someone who dropped out at Junior Cert.

If we give the more educated members of society more voting power, it'd stop gob****es who don't know anything wreckin our economy.

say you get,

5 votes with Junior Cert
7 votes with Leaving Cert
9 votes with Degree or more.

/Waits for reaction :cool:

I dont agree at all with the voting aspect, but I would like to see mandatory qualification and appropriate background experience requirements for ministers

asdasd · 11-02-2009 02:54PM

right about now, the people i'm on about are shooting heroin.

People without degrees are shooting heroin? People with degrees are not? what about coke use? How does that factor in?

asdasd · 11-02-2009 02:56PM

I dont agree at all with the voting aspect, but I would like to see mandatory qualification and appropriate background experience requirements for ministers

Cabinet posts should be available to outsiders, and vetted by parliament, That said, I am not so sure about experts these days, in economics particularly.

But thats a different argument.

11-02-2009 02:57PM

asdasd wrote: »

People without degrees are shooting heroin? People with degrees are not? what about coke use? How does that factor in?

No. You've missed a part of this thread.

The guy accused me of class hate for somethin else i said.
i said yes, there are certain sections of society have no love nor forgiveness for.
which has led me to the comment about heroin.

the initial post got to do with degrees and education is not what i'm referring to.

.

11-02-2009 03:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

i read the independant, bloomberg and google finance while on boards.ie

right about now, the people i'm on about are shooting heroin.

who's better informed?

You read a former broadsheet that is rapidly descending into a tabloid, a website owned and operated by someone with such a clearly stated editorial bias that it would make Fox News embarassed and a website where anyone can express an opinion as fact and post in a thread where things such as "who is better looking, you or your other half?" are frequent topics of discussion...

The only thing that your sources of information prove is that you can read and operate a computer. Congratulations.

EDIT: Also; it is precisely those people who have less education and less opportunities in life that need equal status in voting rights to ensure that the educated classes, who have pretty much all the advantages in society as it is, do not simply become a ruling class.

chopperbyrne · 11-02-2009 03:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

/Opens can of worms

I honestly think that someone who has a PHD in Economics should have more voting power than someone who dropped out at Junior Cert.

If we give the more educated members of society more voting power, it'd stop gob****es who don't know anything wreckin our economy.

say you get,

5 votes with Junior Cert
7 votes with Leaving Cert
9 votes with Degree or more.

/Waits for reaction :cool:

What makes you think a degree makes you smarter or a better decision maker than anyone else.

If it wasn't for all those "junior cert dropouts", you'd have no roof over your head, running water, electricty...

Grow up and stop being a stuck up arsehole.

javaboy · 11-02-2009 03:15PM

chopperbyrne wrote: »

What makes you think a degree makes you smarter or a better decision maker than anyone else.

If it wasn't for all those "junior cert dropouts", you'd have no roof over your head, running water, electricty...

Grow up and stop being a stuck up arsehole.

Banned.

chosen1 · 11-02-2009 03:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

i read the independant, bloomberg and google finance while on boards.ie

right about now, the people i'm on about are shooting heroin.

who's better informed?

Your making yourself sound like exactly the kind of person who shouldn't have a vote. Wouldn't like to be poor in a country led by your good self

11-02-2009 04:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You read a former broadsheet that is rapidly descending into a tabloid, a website owned and operated by someone with such a clearly stated editorial bias that it would make Fox News embarassed and a website where anyone can express an opinion

what should i read then? i didn't realise a broadsheet, the most used source for financial data in the world, and a site that links to finance news around the internet was bad

i honestly didn't know that i may aswell have been reading Nuts and Zoo.

Fek Democracy. How about an extra vote with each level of education.

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