Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

~Rebel~ · 09-02-2009 02:20AM

eagle eye wrote: »

I think Livepool under Rafa Benitez thrive in big games. They have beaten the all the best sides and not through luck but by outplaying them.

I keep saying the same thing, when Benitez decides to have a go every week against defensive sides, Liverpool will be in serious contention for a League title. This siting back and hoping to get the goal just does not work and its about time Rafa got that through his thick skull.

i think this is a bit unfair. Liverpool do actually keep pressing for the majorty of the other games, the problem comes in the final third, actually breaking teams down. So many teams are just happy to go for the 1 point first and hope for the 3 if they get lucky. This is also i think why pool are better against the better teams, as they come out and try to play. Pool can then take advantage of the inevitable space. There simply is no space in so many games against lower teams these days. United are brilliant at this, just managing that 1 or 2 moves needed to work a breakthrough. Chelsea, on the other hand have suffered this year the same as us, lacking the wide magic men who were the basis of Mourinho's success.

Its also no coincidence that we're playing better after our slump, with Yossi coming into form. He's someone who can come in and open something up with a little run or reverse pass.

eagle eye · 09-02-2009 07:04AM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

i think this is a bit unfair. Liverpool do actually keep pressing for the majorty of the other games, the problem comes in the final third, actually breaking teams down. So many teams are just happy to go for the 1 point first and hope for the 3 if they get lucky. This is also i think why pool are better against the better teams, as they come out and try to play. Pool can then take advantage of the inevitable space. There simply is no space in so many games against lower teams these days. United are brilliant at this, just managing that 1 or 2 moves needed to work a breakthrough. Chelsea, on the other hand have suffered this year the same as us, lacking the wide magic men who were the basis of Mourinho's success.

Its also no coincidence that we're playing better after our slump, with Yossi coming into form. He's someone who can come in and open something up with a little run or reverse pass.

I'll just ask you to look back at Liverpool's performances in drawn games, the scoreless games in particular, read the match reports and it will jog your memory.
When you've done that take a look back at the games where Liverpool were behind and see the difference in tactics, substitions etc. The difference is quite amazing and Benitez seems to have a totally different approach when they fall behind.

Now all I'm saying is where you are level after 60 minutes, if Benitez used the same thinking as to when they fall behind I could see them with far more points this season.
I mean even if it goes wrong on one out of every three occasions, you still have 6 points instead of 3 over the same period.

Maybe my thinking on this is flawed, but I just feel that Liverpool have so much more to offer when they play attacking football using width and one defensive/holding midfielder than when you have both Lucas and Masch in the side. I think Liverpool's defence is good enough to stand up and be counted without both those guys in front of them.

I really feel that points have been dropped by Benitez by not making the changes(tactics/substitions) early enough in games.

GuanYin · 09-02-2009 07:11AM

eeghh.... too much tactics. If you're a good soccer team, you play the same game, the same style and the same tactics no matter what the circumstances.

PiE · 09-02-2009 09:26AM

Um... I'd just like to dispel this heinous* Wikipedia accusation - if you bother to look over previous posts you'll see that Milan are my "2nd team", so yea - amazing at it may seem, I already knew those details. Just as most people who have any interest in general football matters might.

However, having checked Wikipedia just now, I see my details were wrong - Milan started on -8pts, not -10pts as I stated before.

eeghh.... too much tactics. If you're a good soccer team, you play the same game, the same style and the same tactics no matter what the circumstances

I wish this were the case - I'd love to see Liverpool go out, stick to a working formation, dominate and control games and... oh wait. We do that. If we had a Dalglish, Keegan, Beardsley, Barnes or Rush in this team, we'd probably run away with the league.

* I encourage it's usage

mark renton · 09-02-2009 09:46AM

mayordenis wrote: »

but nothing, not anything annoys me more than someone who sees some sarcastic or coincidental, or in this case see's something they think is stupid (benitez not buying a replacement striker) and calling that irony.

I never give people a hard time about spelling or grammar (cause I fail there big time) but Irony, nobody has any excuse, if you don't understand the word, don't use it. Everyone wins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9yUVgrmPY

Enjoy!

Chardee MacDennis · 09-02-2009 09:58AM

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163186090209-0808.htm wrote:

Ryan Babel is relishing the prospect of more first team football following Robbie Keane's departure from Anfield.
Babel has failed to establish himself as a regular member of Rafael Benitez's first eleven so far this season, but he was in from the start at Portsmouth on Saturday and now hopes to be given more opportunities to shine.

"I've had a really good talk with Rafa Benitez. I told him I am really happy at Liverpool," the 22-year-old said.

"This is the place where I want to become a top-class player. Robbie has gone to Tottenham and that increases my chances so much more.

"I'm ready for more playing time. Meeting the manager and having a talk about the future, was really important.

"The manager invests so much time and energy in talking to us. He takes time with me. We talk about the system we play, about how he wants me and other players to operate in the system.

"He has told me what my role can be in the future and what he expects of me now, if necessary as a winger.

"But I have not made a secret of my big desire to become a striker for Liverpool.

"That is where my ambition is and Benitez knows that. I have told him that I have a real hunger for that position."

so do we think Babel will make the step up if he is given enough time up front?

PiE · 09-02-2009 10:05AM

Heart says yes, head says no.

_blank_ · 09-02-2009 10:06AM

BastardPrince wrote: »

so do we think Babel will make the step up if he is given enough time up front?

I don't think Ryan Babel will be good enough for Liverpool, in the long run.

Perhaps for the remainder of this season (well, he has to be tbh), and maybe for next, but ultimately I think he will be moved on, either back to Holland, or to a lower placed team.

LuckyLloyd · 09-02-2009 10:33AM

Des wrote: »

I don't think Ryan Babel will be good enough for Liverpool, in the long run.

Perhaps for the remainder of this season (well, he has to be tbh), and maybe for next, but ultimately I think he will be moved on, either back to Holland, or to a lower placed team.

He's taken significant steps backwards this year. As such, agree 100% with Des. Beaten docket.

coco06 · 09-02-2009 10:34AM

Its ok, we're saved

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_4907162,00.html

Voronin open to Liverpool return

Hertha Berlin striker Andriy Voronin has hinted that he would be interested in making a return to Premier League title hopefuls Liverpool.

Voronin joined the Bundesliga side on a one-year loan last summer after struggling to make an impact at Anfield.

The Reds, though, have since sold Robbie Keane back to Tottenham, and questions marks remain over the depth of their strikeforce.

Voronin insists he is happy to remain at the Olympiastadion but intimated at an interest in returning to the Premier League.

He told Bild: "There have been no talks between me, my agent and (Hertha general manager) Dieter Hoeness, yet.

"We want to have talks with Berlin quickly. I know my agent has been talking to Liverpool recently.

"I still have a contract at Anfield. They've just sold Robbie Keane. Up until he joined last summer, I was getting games for Liverpool.

"They have a shortage of strikers now. I would enjoy staying at Hertha. And even if I am not to stay on, I will give my very best until the very end."

whatawaster · 09-02-2009 10:41AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's taken significant steps backwards this year. As such, agree 100% with Des. Beaten docket.

he's also gotten less chances this year. While he has been largely poor, i don't think it's fair to call him a beaten docket. He has an awful lot of ability, even if he only shows it in cameos. Even if he doesn't develop into the top player everybody hoped he would be, he is in my opinion a very useful squad player.

eagle eye · 09-02-2009 10:46AM

I think Babel can make it still, but only if he is going to play up front. In fairness he has become a late substitute replacement for Riera almost every game and is expected to play on the right. Much like Robbie Keane, he has not really been given a run in the team in his proper position.

Chardee MacDennis · 09-02-2009 10:51AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's taken significant steps backwards this year. As such, agree 100% with Des. Beaten docket.

ah sure you never rated Babel lloyd!

daithijjj · 09-02-2009 11:20AM

Ok, im going to make a case for babel here..............

1. Before his start against the toffees, he had 4 starts since the away game versus PSV, scoring twice in 3 wins, those 3 wins were also by 2 goal margins, something which is rare in our current season.

2. In his whole liverpool career he has never played 2 games on the bounce (5 mins at the end of matches is not inc).

3. His lack of full games has seen him put on weight aswell as a few injuries, google a pic of him at ajax and you would barely recognise him.

4. His match fitness is just not there, i dont care how many monitors they put on players chests at training, match fitness cannot be got in training.......his touch, timing and all round rapport with players during a game has suffered from the above.

5. In an effort to just get more games he offered to be loaned back to ajax for 5/6 months as even a blindman can see he needs games.

6. The miss against pompey was unforgivable but being a liverpool fan for so long its not in my DNA to dismiss young players like lucas and babel so early.

7. Ask any full back in the prem if they would rather take care of kuyt or babel and imo they would invariably say kuyt........i will never conform to the idea that kuyt is liverpool standard technically and babel poses more threat going forward. (just airing my opinion, not looking to get lambasted by the kuyt diehards, he posseses other virtues).

8. I believe the formation we play and the position he plays do not suit him, he is not a left winger, he has no left foot..............if we could hypothetically imagine riera on the right all the time then you can surely see what im getting at here.

I think he has an excellent future ahead of him if he is given the proper nurturing and he is not receiving this at the moment imo. He was arguably the best player at the u21 champ's two summers ago and if you put as an example someone like agbonlahor at villa we can see what a similar player can achieve if afforded game after game after game........you may argue that agbonlahor has proved himself and i would agree but in terms of time on the pitch over the last 18 months then it just doesnt compare........for the investment made, babel should be played regularly or sold.........its not good for the player or the club to have a waning talent wither away.

whatawaster · 09-02-2009 11:29AM

I think Agbonlahor is a good example. Gabby can be unplayable at times with his pace and strength. But plenty of times i've seen him his touch looks very poor and he just seems to run with the ball with no real direction. Also his composure in front of goal is extremely variable.

I have no doubt that Babel has more ability than Agbonlahor. He's as quick or nearly as quick. Although he gets (rightly) slated for it on occasions, his touch and technique are imo better (i'm getting frustrated at him just writing this. His touch can be sublime at times, as can his dribbling, just not nearly often enough) and he is a decent finisher.

I think had he had the run in the squad agbonlahor has had he would be a much better player.

_blank_ · 09-02-2009 11:36AM

But the thing is.

A team like Liverpool is never going to "blood" players by giving them game time any more. United don't do it, Chelsea don't do it, Arsenal do it, and look at them.

You either show what you can do in the limited game time you get, or you get out.

Look at Rafael at United for example. Has impressed with almost every game he has played in, forcing Ferguson to re-evaluate his defence.

Babel hasn't done that. He hasn't forced Rafa to play him every game.

That's the difference.

Now, I'm sure Babel has bags of potential, but if he isn't showing it regularly enough to make the manager sit up and think, then potential isn't worth anything.

Villa, on the other hand, have been able to afford to blood players like Young and Agbonlahor, because the pressure just isn't there from A. the press, B. the fans, for them to be competing for either the League or at the very least a CL spot.

Even if Villa fall off this season and finish 5th, no-one is going to bat an eyelid, however, if any of Liverpool, United, Chelsea or Arsenal do finish fifth, there would be a witchunt against the managers (to a lesser extent with Ferguson and Wenger).

eagle eye · 09-02-2009 11:48AM

Des wrote: »

But the thing is.

A team like Liverpool is never going to "blood" players by giving them game time any more. United don't do it, Chelsea don't do it, Arsenal do it, and look at them.

You either show what you can do in the limited game time you get, or you get out.

Look at Rafael at United for example. Has impressed with almost every game he has played in, forcing Ferguson to re-evaluate his defence.

Babel hasn't done that. He hasn't forced Rafa to play him every game.

That's the difference.

Now, I'm sure Babel has bags of potential, but if he isn't showing it regularly enough to make the manager sit up and think, then potential isn't worth anything.

Villa, on the other hand, have been able to afford to blood players like Young and Agbonlahor, because the pressure just isn't there from A. the press, B. the fans, for them to be competing for either the League or at the very least a CL spot.

Even if Villa fall off this season and finish 5th, no-one is going to bat an eyelid, however, if any of Liverpool, United, Chelsea or Arsenal do finish fifth, there would be a witchunt against the managers (to a lesser extent with Ferguson and Wenger).

Balderdash, United give their youngsters a chance, and if they are not getting a chance they are either loaned out to gain experience or sold off.

I can name about 19 United players who have got plenty of games this season.

I don't think I could name the same amount of Liverpool players.

The Arseanal set up is slightly different but again they are full of young players who have got their chance at some stage.

Chelsea are newish at the top and as a result most of their players were bought and as a result had plenty of senior experience before they arrived at Chelsea.

Villa is a developing club under Martin O'Neill and you cannot just wipe away the fact that he has blooded his young players due to lack of pressure until such time as he stops doing it.

daithijjj · 09-02-2009 11:56AM

Des wrote: »

But the thing is.

A team like Liverpool is never going to "blood" players by giving them game time any more. United don't do it, Chelsea don't do it, Arsenal do it, and look at them.

You either show what you can do in the limited game time you get, or you get out.

Look at Rafael at United for example. Has impressed with almost every game he has played in, forcing Ferguson to re-evaluate his defence.

Babel hasn't done that. He hasn't forced Rafa to play him every game.

That's the difference.

Now, I'm sure Babel has bags of potential, but if he isn't showing it regularly enough to make the manager sit up and think, then potential isn't worth anything.

Villa, on the other hand, have been able to afford to blood players like Young and Agbonlahor, because the pressure just isn't there from A. the press, B. the fans, for them to be competing for either the League or at the very least a CL spot.

Even if Villa fall off this season and finish 5th, no-one is going to bat an eyelid, however, if any of Liverpool, United, Chelsea or Arsenal do finish fifth, there would be a witchunt against the managers (to a lesser extent with Ferguson and Wenger).

Point noted......however this just goes back to my point about babel not fitting the formation that benitez likes to play and babel, as a right footer, always deployed on the left. Dirk kuyt had 2 miserable seasons as a striker, are we to assume if he was 21/22 that benitez would have used him as sparingly as babel? (can anyone imagine kuyt on the left wing with no left foot?)..........ive always been of the opinion that babel is more of a floating striker than a winger...........he was excellent on his own up front for the final 20 mins away at chelsea, just to use an example, holding up the ball, linking with gerrard and he has a cannon in his right peg.............even when he does get time on the pitch it is my opinion that he is filling a gap there rather than really wanting to play there. It doesnt help matters either with rafa being so rigid tactically even in attack........its virtually unheard of for one of our players to turn up unexpectantly in the box...........ferguson lets his attackers move around freely with no restraints regularly swapping wings etc. Babel could be better played in an attack that uses those tactics.......again, just my opinion.

Karmafaerie · 09-02-2009 12:43PM

Babel will get his chance to prove himself over the next few weeks.
With Gerrard gone, and Torres (rightly) wrapped in cotton wool, Kuyt, Babel and Benni will be deployed as either one of the front two, or on the right.

Babel will finally get more of a run, and we'll see how he takes it, and go from there.
If Keane leaving will have benifitted anyone, his name is Ryan and he "raps" under the name Rio!:p

As a side note, I gotta give my own congratulations to Benni.
Coming into great form, just when we need him, and always likely to change a game.
He seems to have gotten over his hissy fit from a few months ago, and Liverpool look a more dangerous side when he comes off the bench.

noodler · 09-02-2009 12:48PM

Babel has had a season and a half and has shown nothing this season.

Couldn;t agree more about Yossi, from scoring the goal against Wigan, to setting up Fernando's second against Chelsea and then setting up the winner on Sunday. He looks a new man.

Karmafaerie · 09-02-2009 12:54PM

noodler wrote: »

Babel has had a season and a half and has shown nothing this season.

Couldn;t agree more about Yossi, from scoring the goal against Wigan, to setting up Fernando's second against Chelsea and then setting up the winner on Sunday. He looks a new man.

By your logic however, Torres has been "useless" this season.

Bear with me.

Babel had a promising if not electric first season.
Torres had an unparalleled first season.

Babel has played a fraction of the game time this season.
Torres has played a hell of a lot less games this season, albeit due to injury.

Babel hasn't been in great from when he has played due (possibly) to rustiness.
Torres hasn't been as effective when he has played, due to rustiness.

I know neither can be compared, but to the untrained eye, they seem similar.
My point is that there's a hell of a lot of reasons that Babel hasn't been amazing, and the truth is a middle ground between them, and all have to be taken into account, rather than just writting him off wholesale.

eagle eye · 09-02-2009 01:00PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

By your logic however, Torres has been "useless" this season.

Bear with me.

Babel had a promising if not electric first season.
Torres had an unparalleled first season.

Babel has played a fraction of the game time this season.
Torres has played a hell of a lot less games this season, albeit due to injury.

Babel hasn't been in great from when he has played due (possibly) to rustiness.
Torres hasn't been as effective when he has played, due to rustiness.

I know neither can be compared, but to the untrained eye, they seem similar.
My point is that there's a hell of a lot of reasons that Babel hasn't been amazing, and the truth is a middle ground between them, and all have to be taken into account, rather than just writting him off wholesale.

And just to add to that, Babel has 17 appearances this season, only 4 starts.

Out of the 4 starts Liverpool have won 3 and drawn 1.

He has played a total of 539 minutes which is equivalent to 6 games.

Pyjamarama · 09-02-2009 01:03PM

Not too shabby for a team in crisis with no goal threats...

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/oform.html

If United weren't on such an amazing run we'd be laughing... damn them and that stupidly good defense!!!

noodler · 09-02-2009 01:11PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

By your logic however, Torres has been "useless" this season.

Bear with me.

Babel had a promising if not electric first season.
Torres had an unparalleled first season.

Babel has played a fraction of the game time this season.
Torres has played a hell of a lot less games this season, albeit due to injury.

Babel hasn't been in great from when he has played due (possibly) to rustiness.
Torres hasn't been as effective when he has played, due to rustiness.

I know neither can be compared, but to the untrained eye, they seem similar.
My point is that there's a hell of a lot of reasons that Babel hasn't been amazing, and the truth is a middle ground between them, and all have to be taken into account, rather than just writting him off wholesale.

eagle eye wrote: »

And just to add to that, Babel has 17 appearances this season, only 4 starts.

Out of the 4 starts Liverpool have won 3 and drawn 1.

He has played a total of 539 minutes which is equivalent to 6 games.

26 appearances in all competitions and 3 goals for Babel. Torres has 9 in 23.

We can dismiss that if we want because of Babel's appearances as a sub but I was under the impression left wing forward was a position he was familiar with. I don't think it does anyone any favors to compare him to Torres, least of all him.

He has also contributed very little in general play, giving the ball away at will. If we ignore all the stats for a while you can probably agree that he has been the least effective, anonymous really, player in Liverpool's games this season.

Compare him to Yossi, the difference between what each player creates when they are on the ball is staggering. Babel may well come good but I am not going to sugarcoat the fact he has been awful in the majority of his 26 appearances this season.

PiE · 09-02-2009 01:12PM

Pyjamarama wrote: »

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/oform.html

Utd's form is pretty sickening when you see it like that. And people are saying Liverpool have "thrown away" the league. Sigh.

PHB · 09-02-2009 01:17PM

Utd's form is pretty sickening when you see it like that. And people are saying Liverpool have "thrown away" the league. Sigh.

I think its just the fact that they'd be top of the league if they had won the 'easy' games that they drew at home. Hence the throwing away idea.
Think its abit silly myself

---

Babel is raw. He's still raw. If he develops to match his raw skill and physical attributes, he will be an amazing player. Whether Rafa can get that out of him, or whether he's going to be able to step up, is open to question. However I think at some point in his career he will be top class.

noodler · 09-02-2009 01:18PM

PiE wrote: »

Utd's form is pretty sickening when you see it like that. And people are saying Liverpool have "thrown away" the league. Sigh.

In fairness, we all know that if it weren't for silly points dropped at home we would be top. Top even despite UTD's outstanding recent form. There is no need to try and hide that fact.

Thrown away is a bit OTT but I dare say we would all be alot stronger in our beliefs if we had a lead over UTD at this stage of the season with a visit to OT to come rather than having to play catch up.

Pyjamarama · 09-02-2009 01:37PM

noodler wrote: »

In fairness, we all know that if it weren't for silly points dropped at home we would be top. Top even despite UTD's outstanding recent form. There is no need to try and hide that fact.

Thrown away is a bit OTT but I dare say we would all be alot stronger in our beliefs if we had a lead over UTD at this stage of the season with a visit to OT to come rather than having to play catch up.

But every team drops points. It happens, although seemingly not to United at the moment. Of course we should have won some of the games which we drew but they play the matches for a reason I guess.

I think it was inevitable after such a good start that fans would get a bit disheartened when things went a bit wonky but we're still performing better than we possibly ever have in the league and that's two good wins on the trot so hopefully we can push on after this nice break.

Chardee MacDennis · 09-02-2009 02:52PM

not sure if this has been posted before but its nando playing for atleti against milan in 1996. scores two nice goals including a nicely worked corner and typical nando goal for their 4th!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkxkoj16pzk

SlickRic · 09-02-2009 02:53PM

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163198090209-1230.htm

good to hear i must say.

we all know by now he's a mature, intelligent guy but it's still nice to be reminded by such a down to earth article. everything is in perspective while also defiant.

stevie and carra are legends obviously, but I wouldn't say no to Torres as captain at some point. whenever he talks it always makes me a little prouder to be a 'pool fan; always exemplary.

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