Ecstasy is just horse play

Plug · 07-02-2009 03:05PM

bigkev49 wrote: »

Shouldn't ever be about that in fairness. You shouldn't need to be sitting there chewing the jaw off yourself like some kind of hyperactive goldfish just to fit in with people who you consider your mates. Obviously the same goes for downing shots of some god-awful red colouring. (I hate Aftershock).

I don't mean as to fit in and be like' one of the bouys':rolleyes:
Its just you'd look like a right tit sitting there while everyones having a good buzz. Even if theres another friend just driking with ya it would be grand, that way you can have a good drunk chat and not be waffeled to death about someone who died 20 years ago etc.

DarkJager · 07-02-2009 03:07PM

Plug wrote: »

I don't mean as to fit in and be like' one of the bouys':rolleyes:
Its just you'd look like a right tit sitting there while everyones having a good buzz. Even if theres another friend just driking with ya it would be grand, that way you can have a good drunk chat and not be waffeled to death about someone who died 20 years ago etc.

Throw me a chewing gum there bud and I'll be your best friend for the next 6 hours

Rowley Birkin QC · 07-02-2009 03:14PM

DarkJager wrote: »

Its possible that they weren't that strong, but its good to hear you have some experience of them instead of just spouting anti-drug rhetoric. I don't take them any weekend man, haven't touched them in about 2 years now but did a year long phase of taking them, during which I will happily admit I had some of the best nights of my life.

Well that's cool that you can pick and choose when you take them.

When you say they might not have been that strong it highlights one of the problems with pills for me. You take one (a dud) nothing happens. Take 2 more duds, still nothing. Think to yourself "fcuk this" and neck 7 or 8 of them that happen to be good stuff and kablammo, you're off in a world of your own. There is no consistency in the product.

At least if I drink copious amounts of Jack Daniels I know that I am just going to end up horny and pennyless.:D:D

DarkJager · 07-02-2009 03:25PM

bigkev49 wrote: »

Well that's cool that you can pick and choose when you take them.

When you say they might not have been that strong it highlights one of the problems with pills for me. You take one (a dud) nothing happens. Take 2 more duds, still nothing. Think to yourself "fcuk this" and neck 7 or 8 of them that happen to be good stuff and kablammo, you're off in a world of your own. There is no consistency in the product.

At least if I drink copious amounts of Jack Daniels I know that I am just going to end up horny and pennyless.:D:D

You're right about the quality, it will always be hit and miss due to the new **** the manufacturers are cutting in to the pills now a days. Part of the reason I'd limit myself to only MDMA if I had to these days.

There's a guy in the UK who took 40000 pills(25 a day) over the space of 9 nine years. Thats stupidity and insanity rolled into one. He's so ****ed now, he even dances to music in the supermarket.

Plug · 07-02-2009 03:26PM

DarkJager wrote: »

Throw me a chewing gum there bud and I'll be your best friend for the next 6 hours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_VJxNvFjIY

:d

JC 2K3 · 07-02-2009 03:32PM

bigkev49 wrote: »

Tried them once. As you said, great buzz but tinged with the realisation that the whole thing was "fake". I've tried most "recreational" drugs and I honestly do not see the point of them.

The point is that they feel good or are interesting or are some of the most intense and profound experiences possible. Also, why have you tried them if you don't see the point? If you try anything with a negative mindset or hangups towards them, you won't enjoy them. I've seen anti-drugs friends try drugs just so they'll know what it's like, and they fight the high every step of the way, valuing their pride in being able to say that drugs are crap and stupid more than just relaxing, letting the high run its course and acknowledging the drug as a pleasant experience.

As for them being "fake", why do you think this? If you can feel something, then it's real. Saying that the high you get from drugs is fake is no different to saying the high you get from being in love, or a rollercoaster, or sex is fake. You see, it's not that it's fake, it's just that you have a negative attitude to drugs in the first place.

bigkev49 wrote: »

As to recreating the same effect outside of a chemically induced buzz; it can definitely be done. Can't say here though.

What buzz isn't chemically induced? And If you're talking about sex, that's a COMPLETELY different high to E.

shock_value · 07-02-2009 03:38PM

David Raynes, of the National Drug Prevention Alliance, said: "He is entitled to his personal opinion, but if his personal view conflicts so very strongly with his public duties, it would be honourable to consider his position. If he does not, the Home Secretary should do it for him.

I love this line. The uk government pay this guy to look at various drugs. After much study he comes to the conclusion that all drugs aren't nessesarily bad and that maybe the government aren't going about it the right way. So they suggest him retiring because his years of study didn't produce the results they were looking for.

liking the logic in that one, David Raynes.

I haven't tried mdma yet, but it's definately on my to do list

. However I don't see myself becoming a regular user. The fact that after a few years people apparently no longer get any euphoria from mdma would suggest that it does indeed change the brain.

To people who are shocked by this story i hope it gets them thinking rationally about drugs. Some safe drugs do exist ( i don't think mdma is one of them) and addiction could be drastically reduced if you got people to take their drugs orally. Maybe this is the route we should be going down instead of telling people to "say no to drugs, but it's ok to drink alcohol, one of the most toxic recreational drugs around".

DarkJager · 07-02-2009 03:43PM

shock_value wrote: »

I haven't tried mdma yet, but it's definately on my to do list . However I don't see myself becoming a regular user. The fact that after a few years people apparently no longer get any euphoria from mdma would suggest that it does indeed change the brain (note how i said change, and not damage).

It all works by flooding your brain with serotonen. Obviously, the more you do it the more of the drug it will take to produce the desired effect. Its not a few years either, by your 3rd or 4th time taking it the effect will already be on the decline.

shock_value · 07-02-2009 03:58PM

DarkJager wrote: »

It all works by flooding your brain with serotonen. Obviously, the more you do it the more of the drug it will take to produce the desired effect. Its not a few years either, by your 3rd or 4th time taking it the effect will already be on the decline.

I meant that after a few years certain aspects of the buzz will be completely gone, and that long periods of abstainance won't bring them properly back. This seems to me to be somewhat different from normal tolereance that usually appears with drugs.

If we had safe oxytoxin agonists we could probably create a cocktail of chemicals creating an mdma-like buzz that would never lose it's zing (although slightly higher doses will be needed as your body becomes more tolerant). I think that is the future.

DarkJager · 07-02-2009 04:01PM

shock_value wrote: »

I meant that after a few years certain aspects of the buzz will be completely gone, and that long periods of abstainance won't bring them properly back. This seems to me to be somewhat different from normal tolereance that usually appears with drugs.

If we had safe oxytoxin agonists we could probably create a cocktail of chemicals creating an mdma-like buzz that would never lose it's zing (although slightly higher doses will be needed as your body becomes more tolerant). I think that is the future.

Your brain can only use so much serotonen though. Thats what causes the blue mondays - the serotonen has dried up and you feel depressed for a few hours. Things like chocolate can shrug that off though, there's some compound in chocolate replensihes serotonen.

So to create an endless buzz, you would probably need someway of getting additonal serotonen to the brain and keeping it constantly there which would be quite difficult. Great idea though

drunkmonkey · 07-02-2009 04:02PM

nothing beats a good rave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuumWDncco&feature=channel_page

just my 2 cent...

Zebra3 · 07-02-2009 04:06PM

The council is expected next week to recommend that ecstasy is downgraded from class A to the less dangerous class B classification. Ministers have outlined their opposition to such a move.

People are missing the point. When will horse riding be upgraded to a Class B drug?

Rowley Birkin QC · 07-02-2009 04:10PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Also, why have you tried them if you don't see the point?

Tried them first, after that I couldn't see the point of them.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

As for them being "fake", why do you think this? If you can feel something, then it's real. Saying that the high you get from drugs is fake is no different to saying the high you get from being in love, or a rollercoaster, or sex is fake. You see, it's not that it's fake, it's just that you have a negative attitude to drugs in the first place.

You're right I do have a negative attitude to drugs. In my experience they turn people into asshats. As to my comment about the high being "fake" I meant that I knew that the only reason I felt as good as I did was that I took a tablet. I much prefer to seek out my highs by other means.

While I have a negative attitude, I don't preach to my mates if they are off on yokes for the night, I just avoid them.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What buzz isn't chemically induced? And If you're talking about sex, that's a COMPLETELY different high to E.

You know what I mean kid, there's a difference between naturally induced highs and shovelling a load of pills down your throat.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 07-02-2009 04:16PM

bigkev49 wrote: »

You know what I mean kid, there's a difference between naturally induced highs and shovelling a load of pills down your throat.

The difference is only a psychological one due to the pejorative attitude towards drugs which we are all brought up with.

To the body there isn't really any difference.

Why don't people speak out against spicy food? After all chillies cause serotonin and endorphins to be produced. Why is this different? The same with chocolate, masturbation and medititation.

Rowley Birkin QC · 07-02-2009 04:19PM

Sean_K wrote: »

The difference is only a psychological one due to the pejorative attitude towards drugs which we are all brought up with.

To the body there isn't really any difference.

Why don't people speak out against spicy food? After all chillies cause serotonin and endorphins to be produced. Why is this different? The same with chocolate, masturbation and medititation.

Yes the end result might be the same (or similar), the sense of euphoria and happy feelings, but the process to get there is what I'm talking about.

DarkJager · 07-02-2009 04:21PM

Sean_K wrote: »

The difference is only a psychological one due to the pejorative attitude towards drugs which we are all brought up with.

To the body there isn't really any difference.

Why don't people speak out against spicy food? After all chillies cause serotonin and endorphins to be produced. Why is this different? The same with chocolate, masturbation and medititation.

A chilli, chocolate, masturbation & meditation night?! Maybe an idea for the next boards event

Rowley Birkin QC · 07-02-2009 04:25PM

DarkJager wrote: »

A chilli, chocolate, masturbation & meditation night?! Maybe an idea for the next boards event

Is that not what goes on at them anyway?

shock_value · 07-02-2009 04:34PM

DarkJager wrote: »

Your brain can only use so much serotonen though. Thats what causes the blue mondays - the serotonen has dried up and you feel depressed for a few hours. Things like chocolate can shrug that off though, there's some compound in chocolate replensihes serotonen.

So to create an endless buzz, you would probably need someway of getting additonal serotonen to the brain and keeping it constantly there which would be quite difficult. Great idea though

I doubt it's to do with serotonin depletion. If you abstain for 6 months that's plenty of time for your serotonin to replenish itself. But yet people claim they still can't get much of a buzz off mdma.

If you want to replenish serotonin, you're wasting your time with chocolate. I suggest you look into l-tryptophan or 5-htp.

I never said endless, i meant that if you take it socially it will still have an effect. This is how most drugs work. Even if you're just working with serotonin you could use a serotonin agonist (a chemical that binds directly to your serotonin receptors without causing the release of serotonin).

I have no doubt that with more research safe mdma-like drugs (or more likely a mixture of a few drugs) will be available. In fact safe counterparts for all illicitly used drugs will be available (some already exist now) and their addiction will be greatly reduced as people won't have to snort/inhale/inject them to save money. It's all dependant on how the governments chose to act.

Stories like this give me hope that people are starting to think rationally about drugs.

Davidius · 07-02-2009 04:38PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

profound experiences possible.

This is me when I read that:

generalmiaow · 07-02-2009 06:35PM

I reckon MD[M|E]?A\b/ is pretty safe although I no longer go near the stuff because it results in pictures like this:

http://twentymajor.net/images/gurners.jpg

Having said that, I find it highly disturbing that you can be addicted to horses. Surely riding them isn't enough at some stage and you might start mainlining them. Then you are in serious trouble,

generalmiaow · 07-02-2009 06:48PM

shock_value wrote: »

I doubt it's to do with serotonin depletion. If you abstain for 6 months that's plenty of time for your serotonin to replenish itself. But yet people claim they still can't get much of a buzz off mdma.

If you want to replenish serotonin, you're wasting your time with chocolate. I suggest you look into l-tryptophan or 5-htp.

I never said endless, i meant that if you take it socially it will still have an effect. This is how most drugs work. Even if you're just working with serotonin you could use a serotonin agonist (a chemical that binds directly to your serotonin receptors without causing the release of serotonin).

I have no doubt that with more research safe mdma-like drugs (or more likely a mixture of a few drugs) will be available. In fact safe counterparts for all illicitly used drugs will be available (some already exist now) and their addiction will be greatly reduced as people won't have to snort/inhale/inject them to save money. It's all dependant on how the governments chose to act.

Stories like this give me hope that people are starting to think rationally about drugs.

A couple of points:

Plenty of people think rationally about drugs, they just don't seem to be very successful in politics.

You need to qualify the statement safe counterparts for illicit drugs exist now. This implies these counterparts are legal. I don't agree. MDMA has a counterpart in its beta-ketone analogue Methylone, which is not proven safer than MDMA. Cannabis has... what, JWH-018? I don't believe that's any safer than a plant that has been used safely forever. Amphetamine...BZP? 1,3 dimethylamylamine? Neither of those have the successful record in medicine that amphetamine has.

(EDIT: if you were referring to methadone, then I see what you mean, and I apologise for the above tirade .. although it's not quite safe )

I think there are legal counterparts for illegal drugs. But not safe counterparts. The legal ones are probably less safe.

Incidentally, 5-htp and l-tryptophan (both of which are technically restricted in Ireland) may help with comedowns, but if you want an at least partially scientifically proven way of preventing the cell death caused by MDMA which is the most likely reason why it may cause depression and/or cognitive impairment, you are better off with fluoxetine (Prozac).

vorbis · 07-02-2009 07:03PM

that taking the drug was no more harmful than an addiction to riding.

Can't believe no one quoted this line

JC 2K3 · 07-02-2009 08:22PM

shock_value wrote: »

The fact that after a few years people apparently no longer get any euphoria from mdma

What fact?

The "magic" is gone after the first few times, but that's like anything in life you try for the first time. Thing you experience are always better the first time.

Also, hi vinylmesh

lostexpectation · 07-02-2009 09:06PM

/tell that to cian o connor

shock_value · 07-02-2009 09:09PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What fact?

The "magic" is gone after the first few times, but that's like anything in life you try for the first time. Thing you experience are always better the first time.

The many reports like this;

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=4985

that i've seen, seem to suggest there's something other than standard drug tolerance at play here.

Dudess · 07-02-2009 10:13PM

TheZohan wrote: »

Why not go the whole hog and try heroin?

Because heroin is far more dangerous than ecstasy?

It's not simply a case of one illegal drug = all illegal drugs.

30 deaths a year (in the UK I presume)... I'm surprised it's that many.

Davidius · 07-02-2009 10:30PM

I just wish that people would spend less of their time reading up on this drug related nonsense and do something useful.

Like build a fort. Wouldn't that be fun?

book smarts · 08-02-2009 01:41AM

Most "e" nowadays isn't e at all. The chance of getting one with ANY mdma or mda or similar in it, is about 10%. It's mostly meth and aspirin and other crap. It's just too difficult to get the ingredients, which are watched worldwide like a hawk, by the DEA.

ChocolateSauce · 08-02-2009 02:19PM

Great! Now I know that in retrospect, all those times I did E it wasn't as bad as others would have be believe :rolleyes:

javaboy · 08-02-2009 03:13PM

Just a quick reminder on the rules on drug talk in the AH:

The Chawtah wrote:

Drug Talk
- Discussion of drugs is allowed. Telling people where to buy or requesting that information isn't allowed. Magic Mushrooms, Salvia, DMT etc. are covered by this. Why? Because the admins do not want to be held responsible for posts telling people where to get drugs of any kind. Simple. You can argue about the legality all you want as long as you understand the restrictions on such topics. There might be a forum on legal highs created soon so such things can be discussed in a controlled manner.

A couple of posts have been deleted but most are fine. Basically don't tell people to take drugs and don't ask or tell where to get them.

Ecstasy is just horse play

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