36,000 Jobs lost yet mass imigration contines

chosen1 · 04-02-2009 10:14PM

There is just no talking to the likes of these people. Ignorant mentality isn't going to change over night.
As for saying that the USA and Canada etc. all have huge populations and can handle small number of immigrants, do they realise that Australia only has about 5 times our population and thats where one of those clowns is going?

muffinob1 · 04-02-2009 10:22PM

have none of them studied history? Do paople not understand that without these people we'd have had no workers in the social industry?

Our economy grew cos of these workers and contracted because of government stupidity and bankers greed not migrant workers

DarkJager · 04-02-2009 10:24PM

chosen1 wrote: »

There is just no talking to the likes of these people. Ignorant mentality isn't going to change over night.

Ignorant mentality? The only ignorance on display here is from the PC types who are too blinded to realise what a critical state our country is in, and fail to see how immigration is only making things worse. You are only fooling yourselves by trying to demote this to some discussion where you can tar everyone as a racist because they would like to look after their fellow countrymen first before people from other countries.

As for saying that the USA and Canada etc. all have huge populations and can handle small number of immigrants, do they realise that Australia only has about 5 times our population and thats where one of those clowns is going?

Only 5 times the population? So about 20 mil yeah? Small country :rolleyes:

IHATELIBERTAS · 04-02-2009 10:27PM

DarkJager wrote: »

Ignorant mentality? The only ignorance on display here is from the PC types who are too blinded to realise what a critical state our country is in, and fail to see how immigration is only making things worse. You are only fooling yourselves by trying to demote this to some discussion where you can tar everyone as a racist because they would like to look after their fellow countrymen first before people from other countries.

do you mean outside EU yeah?

MIN2511 · 04-02-2009 10:28PM

KerranJast wrote: »

There are jobs. Irish people are just too stuck up to take menial work. They'd rather sponge off the Dole and watch Ricki Lake than clean toliets.

No, thats not true....

Last Wednesday, i went to Mc Donald's to drop my CV

Me: Hi there
Girl: Sorry we...
Me: (cutting her short) I would like to drop my CV, are ye looking for staff?
Girl: That's what i was trying to tell you-We are not recruiting!
Me: Ah sorry i thought you were going to ask what i wanted, thanks anyways.

So that day i decided that a masters would be nice, i would work on a personal project while am at it.

OPENROAD · 04-02-2009 10:32PM

DarkJager wrote: »

Ignorant mentality? The only ignorance on display here is from the PC types who are too blinded to realise what a critical state our country is in, and fail to see how immigration is only making things worse. You are only fooling yourselves by trying to demote this to some discussion where you can tar everyone as a racist because they would like to look after their fellow countrymen first before people from other countries.

Only 5 times the population? So about 20 mil yeah? Small country :rolleyes:

Still taking jobs that could be filled by local people, as you said look after their fellow countrymen first.

chosen1 · 04-02-2009 10:35PM

DarkJager wrote: »

Only 5 times the population? So about 20 mil yeah? Small country :rolleyes:

20 million is not a huge population in world terms and they are getting multiples of immigration we are getting.

Also never in my post did I mention anyone was racist so please dont misquote me! Its more likely your xenophobic if you know the difference. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

sneakerfreak · 05-02-2009 12:39AM

sunshine007 wrote: »

Just outta curiosity, if an individual has only been working for say a year and half and then finds themselves out of work, has no savings etc, are they still entitled to Nothing? No money to pay rent, or catch a flight home... cant claim dole.... what does that individual do?

ends up on the street

i have a Lithuanian mate staying on my sofa til he can gather enough to fly home,he was refused any welfare.he had worked here for 5 years paying PRSI contributions,went home to work for 6 months then returned here about a year ago and got maybe 8 months work but was let go and now cant get anything from the social due to the 6 months he was away.
He doesnt complain and is glad he was able to work here.Im a bit of a rascist myself sometimes and fairly right wing on some issues but this crap about "fly over and claim dole" and all the other bo0llix being spouted by people is a joke.it really doesnt happen like that.

Biggins · 05-02-2009 12:56AM

galwayrush wrote: »

There's no jobs and they sure ain't coming for the ****ing weather.:rolleyes:

Tue.

I can understand both sides of the coin to be fair.
Yes, we were in the same boat many years ago.
BUT - we entered other lands not to take advantage of a social welfare system. I know not all are coming here to do this but SERIOUSLY, right now, why are they still coming otherwise in such numbers?

When we invaded England, America, Australia, etc we went with the knowledge that when we got there, we wouldn't be relying upon the state to fill our pockets. Food and shelter was to be gained by the blood and sweat of our own effort.

If we are still going to allow that many to stay, now that things are VERY bad economic-wise, maybe we should adopt a system that they have to wait, say six months before they can apply for state benefits, etc.
That way at least, they have to come to our island with a basic contingent of money to survive for a while. Maybe in those six months they might find even a basic job!

It not about picking on immigrants - it's about Ireland's economic survival.

I'd like to throw out there another thought.
When we went to other countries, the majority of the time like America and Australia, etc the economic status of the places were on the up. The building of America, the building of Australia, etc...

For the coming time at least, there has to be changes in the way things have to be done.
When we are back on more solid ground, I'll gladly welcome more in.
We just can't keep feeding everyone till the larder is bare - and meanwhile still let the awaiting line still get bigger!

Guy:Incognito · 05-02-2009 12:59AM

The Saint wrote: »

I'll take that as a no from you too. Maybe instead of looking at immigrants as welfare spongers we should be looking at our homegrown ones.

Why? Every country has spongers. What the others dont do is import more.

I know (personnally) of plenty of "asylum seekers" (inverted commas are because they arent asylum seekers at all, they have been aorund europe for years and regularly go home for holidays) raping the system here. A few laugh openly about it and have no issue talkign about it.

If Irsih people go aboad thats someone elses problem. The people (irish or otherwise) within our borders are ours.

The whole world knows we are in the **** and unemployment is soaring. Theres no reason any one would decide to come here now seeking work.

The €200 dole is the most attractive thing about the country at the minute.

K-9 · 05-02-2009 01:01AM

Biggins wrote: »

BUT - we entered other lands not to take advantage of a social welfare system.

Ah Biggins, good post, BUT, The above, Come on!

We had a special relationship with Britain before EU Laws on claiming welfare in other countries.

Ireland is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, this law exists.

LightningBolt · 05-02-2009 01:03AM

sneakerfreak wrote: »

it really doesnt happen like that.

It still happens. Not on a great scale mind but it still happens. Exact same as people in Norn.Ire claiming both sides of the border.

OPENROAD · 05-02-2009 01:04AM

Biggins wrote: »

.

I'd like to throw out there another thought.
When we went to other countries, the majority of the time like America and Australia, etc the economic status of the places were on the up. The building of America, the building of Australia, etc...

For the coming time at least, there has to be changes in the way things have to be done.

Plenty of Irish heading across to places where the Economies are certainly not on the up now

Oh and plenty of Irish claimed welfare in the UK and were very happy to rather than work ,just like plenty worked very hard, we were not perfect.

You do make some very valid points and this country is in big trouble but I think you will find that plenty of people that came over during the so called Celtic tiger are now heading home as work dries up.

K-9 · 05-02-2009 01:08AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Plenty of Irish heading across to places where the Economies are certainly not on the up now

Oh and plenty of Irish claimed welfare in the UK and were very happy to rather than work ,just like plenty worked very hard, we were not perfect.

You do make some very valid points and this country is in big trouble but I think you will find that plenty of people that came over during the so called Celtic tiger are now heading home as work dries up.

Indeed, the stats back that up.

Last stats I seen was 20,000 immigrants was claiming dole. That was a few months ago. They are actually a lower percentage compared to amounts in the Labour Force, which is a good indication.

Biggins · 05-02-2009 01:09AM

K-9 wrote: »

Ah Biggins, good post, BUT, The above, Come on!

We had a special relationship with Britain before EU Laws on claiming welfare in other countries.

Ireland is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, this law exists.

I'm talking/refering to the times when America, etc were new countries.
The late 70's/80's were a different ball game and yes, for that one period some of us were just as bad/guilty.
The other times I think (and admitted, I could be wrong) we went expecting nothing except maybe a chance to work for money that was already there in the country to be made.
Clearly the money is no longer here as much as it was 10 years ago.
Temporary-wise, we no longer need to make adjustments - we HAVE to make adjustments.
Thats just the way things have to be - at least for a while.
I SERIOUSLY don't like it either but we have to start somewhere in all areas of economic leakage.

Guy:Incognito · 05-02-2009 01:09AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Plenty of Irish heading across to places where the Economies are certainly not on the up now .

They are going in the hope of getting work. I really cant see why anyone with a brain would leave the dole here (€200) to go to England and claim , what, £50? Will America give you a penny?

Xiney · 05-02-2009 01:14AM

sunshine007 wrote: »

Just outta curiosity, if an individual has only been working for say a year and half and then finds themselves out of work, has no savings etc, are they still entitled to Nothing? No money to pay rent, or catch a flight home... cant claim dole.... what does that individual do?

They could get Jobseeker's Allowance, which is means tested. It's easier to have the PRSI contributions waived on that one.

But they wouldn't be eligible for Jobseeker's benefit, no.

Biggins · 05-02-2009 01:18AM

Any people that came here from other lands and found work and there is thousands... welcome.
The Irish people do know what it is to struggle for even basic needs.
We appreciate you contributing towards the state in regards to tax, vat and everything else the F.F. gang can come up with.
You are to be no longer regarded as outsiders. If ye are contributing to this country, as far as I am concerned - your part of our national family. No if's - no buts.

Its ONLY that NOW when things are really, really tight and the money is just not there, that I have concern over.
We need to slow many things down as regards monetary "leakage" as I've phrased it.
It's only temp-wise but it needs to be done.
If I was in power and things grow into a more stronger economic base again, I'd be the first one to open the immigrant gates a bit wider again.
HONEST.
I'll stand at the gates, shake your hand and say "welcome".

K-9 · 05-02-2009 01:19AM

Biggins wrote: »

I'm talking/refering to the times when America, etc were new countries.
The late 70's/80's were a different ball game and yes, for that one period some of us were just as bad/guilty.
The other times I think (and admitted, I could be wrong) we went expecting nothing except maybe a chance to work for money that was already there in the country to be made.
Clearly the money is no longer here as much as it was 10 years ago.
Temporary-wise, we no longer need to make adjustments - we HAVE to make adjustments.
Thats just the way things have to be - at least for a while.
I SERIOUSLY don't like it either but we have to start somewhere in all areas of economic leakage.

The same rules apply as any Irish worker for Unemployment claims. That was the idea behind the law, no discrimination. Work your 2 years, get your UB for 12 months, same as us.

I see your point, but we've moved on. Thank God!

Anybody watch the ITV News?

Sad to see Portugese workers leaving Britain because of fear over safety since the protests last week. I hope we don't get to that level.

We prided ourselves in not being a colonial power. Why start now?

OPENROAD · 05-02-2009 01:19AM

Stekelly wrote: »

They are going in the hope of getting work. I really cant see why anyone with a brain would leave the dole here (€200) to go to England and claim , what, £50? Will America give you a penny?

I was replying to Biggins point, have a read back.

Indeed Irish going abroad may well be going looking for work but everywhere is seeing unemployment figures rise and fast, if people are getting upset about people coming here taking Irish jobs then you can understanf some locals might be upset about the Irish going to their country when unemplyment is risng and possibly taking local jobs. We can't have it both ways.

RE Welfare, I'm talking about the 70's etc... plenty went across with possibly the intention of getting work but ended up claiming welfare in the UK.

asdasd · 05-02-2009 01:21AM

20 million is not a huge population in world terms and they are getting multiples of immigration we are getting.

students. Listen up.

Having established that Australis has a population of 20 million people we can verify the truth of this statement. Australia acually controlls it's borders, unlike Ireland, which has to allow 400 million people enter, 100 million or so from Eastern Europe which is slightly richer than Mexico.

I googled the figures for Australia. The figure for 2007-2008 was 152,000. Thats equivalent to 30,000 people coming to Ireland, a figure which I doubt would be of much problem to anyone. The numbers coming to Ireland, according to the OP, is 8K a month, or 96K a year - equivalent to australia taking in 500,000 people a year in the midst of a recession.

Irish Labour needs to grow balls. Unfortunatley the private sector is not unionised ( were it we would nto be in this pos.)

It was always cant to say "jobs the Irish wouldnt do". We did the jobs before immigration. Irish people were displaced from those jobs, and clearly in a time of net job losses, all immigration is taking jobs that unemployed Irish would do. The 8,000 immigrants are taking jobs which would otherwise have gone to Irish people.

the people arguing against this are from the upper middle classes ( who protect their jobs - so fradulent "freedom of movement" in the EU that the professional classes have protected their turf - you cant come here and become a dentist for instace. Sickening), or have nice protected jobs in the Public Sector, or are smelly students. Or capitalists , normally petty bourgeois types adding the half pence to the pence, and pious antimonious PC prayer to shivering prayer. Same old.

For everybody else the import of labour is not in their interests. stop spouting ruling class claptrap.

OPENROAD · 05-02-2009 01:21AM

K-9 wrote: »

Sad to see Portugese workers leaving Britain because of fear over safety since the protests last week. I hope we don't get to that level.

I think we will sadly.

asdasd · 05-02-2009 01:23AM

We prided ourselves in not being a colonial power. Why start now?

so controlling borders nd protecting local jobs is like being a "colonial power".

asdasd · 05-02-2009 01:24AM

I think we will sadly.

I think we wont sady. We have a supine, controlled, un-unionised working class in the private sector.

IHATELIBERTAS · 05-02-2009 01:24AM

EU RIGHTS FOR EU WORKERS.

Ireland will never see the same immigration from the rest of the EU even when times are good. hopefully the share of wealth can spread across the eu in the coming years and decades. eu wide minimum wage?

BendiBus · 05-02-2009 01:28AM

Biggins wrote: »

BUT - we entered other lands not to take advantage of a social welfare system.

When we invaded England, America, Australia, etc we went with the knowledge that when we got there, we wouldn't be relying upon the state to fill our pockets. Food and shelter was to be gained by the blood and sweat of our own effort.

Very romantic.

I worked in a pub in London in the mid 80s. A good many of my customers were Irish and on the UK dole.

OPENROAD · 05-02-2009 01:28AM

asdasd wrote: »

I think we wont sady. We have a supine, controlled, un-unionised working class in the private sector.

Might not see the protests but think we will see the "Irish Jobs for Irish,.." as unemplyment rises.

asdasd · 05-02-2009 01:31AM

EU RIGHTS FOR EU WORKERS.

The rights to undercut local irish workers you mean. Typical Student claptrap.

If you want equal rights for all workers tell me why doctors, lawyers, pharmacists etc. do not have freedom of movement in the EU, and demand that out cosseted public service have to employ the Yurups whenever possible, i.e when immigrants undecut the wages. That might solve the present budegtaty crisis. The Public Service can be "jobs Irish people wont do". Or do we only displace powerless private sector workers on menial wages?

There is nothing worse than Upper middle class pretend socialism.

Biggins · 05-02-2009 01:32AM

BendiBus wrote: »

I worked in a pub in London in the mid 80s. A good many of my customers were Irish and on the UK dole.

Correct but see my further comments slightly back referring to that particular period.

...The late 70's/80's were a different ball game and yes, for that one period some of us were just as bad/guilty.

I don't disagree with you.

K-9 · 05-02-2009 01:35AM

asdasd wrote: »

so controlling borders nd protecting local jobs is like being a "colonial power".

When people are in fear leaving, yes?

They rather going back to unemployment that staying working, something is wrong.

36,000 Jobs lost yet mass imigration contines

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