36,000 Jobs lost yet mass imigration contines

trailerparkboy

DarkJager wrote: »

Let me explain it for you so:

Britain - Population=60.943,912(approx)
U.S - Population= 303,824,640(approx)
Ireland - Population=4,156,119(approx)

Please explain to me how a few Irish going to the UK or US for jobs,are going to have any sort of impact on job availabilty for native workers when their populations are so high? Do you see how people incoming to a nation as small as Ireland while unemployment is dancing around the 10% mark is completely unworkable?

I just thought I'd iron that bull**** point about Irish taking US/UK jobs, because I'm sick of the PC ****heads throwing out such stupid comments when it comes to debates about the effect of immigration.

Excatly, the usa canada and aus also have controls of how many immigrants they leave in not like Ireland, so any Irish going to these countries will not have much of a effect, now if 5% of these countries total population came in every year as immigrants that would be crazy , this is what has been happening in Ireland the last few years 200,000 immigrants a year on average equals 5% of the Irish population, now if this happened in the USA that would mean 15 million immigrants a year which they would not let happen espically when they are in recession the same as Ireland.

javaboy

DarkJager wrote: »

I just thought I'd iron that bull**** point about Irish taking US/UK jobs, because I'm sick of the PC ****heads throwing out such stupid comments when it comes to debates about the effect of immigration.

Watch it.

DarkJager

IHATELIBERTAS wrote: »

because if there was work there then the natives would be working those jobs not the irish.

So the Irish are just emmigrating to these places for a ****in laugh so is it?

IHATELIBERTAS

yeah they seem to be actually. i havent actually heard anyone mention the usa, but they all seem to be flooding to australia when thee jobs there are becoming very limited.

trailerparkboy

IHATELIBERTAS wrote: »

trailerpark boy u havent a clue. absolute hypocrit.

Im sure you will grow up and in 5 years time you will not be such a P.C left wing Idiot.

IHATELIBERTAS

I hope you are run out of canada mo chara.

The Saint

Oooh personal insults now. Nice. I think you lost all credibility on this thread when this was brought up:

Heading over myself too, dont know what the work situation is like but i hear the cities except for adelaide have few jobs. If your thinking of going to canada theres still lots of work, lived there myself for a few years, however dont go to eastern canada if your looking for work vert bad wages there, you can get double the wages in Alberta and if u want to go to the Yukon (where i was) the wages are very high plus lots of overtime plus great people and great quality of life.

OPENROAD

trailerparkboy wrote: »

Im sure you will grow up and in 5 years time you will not be such a P.C left wing Idiot.

And you are off to Canada? priceless, as a matter of interest, do you want a total ban on people coming to Ireland? What ab out the people already here? What about EU immigrants?

schween

trailerparkboy wrote: »

this is what has been happening in Ireland the last few years 200,000 immigrants a year on average .

Right, I see. So considering that in 2006 there were 419,000 foreign nationals in the country, that must mean there's over 800,000 in the country now and soon 1 million.

javaboy

IHATELIBERTAS wrote: »

trailerpark boy u havent a clue. absolute hypocrit.

Attack the post not the poster.

trailerparkboy wrote: »

Im sure you will grow up and in 5 years time you will not be such a P.C left wing Idiot.

Banned.

chosen1

There is just no talking to the likes of these people. Ignorant mentality isn't going to change over night.
As for saying that the USA and Canada etc. all have huge populations and can handle small number of immigrants, do they realise that Australia only has about 5 times our population and thats where one of those clowns is going?

muffinob1

have none of them studied history? Do paople not understand that without these people we'd have had no workers in the social industry?

Our economy grew cos of these workers and contracted because of government stupidity and bankers greed not migrant workers

DarkJager

chosen1 wrote: »

There is just no talking to the likes of these people. Ignorant mentality isn't going to change over night.

Ignorant mentality? The only ignorance on display here is from the PC types who are too blinded to realise what a critical state our country is in, and fail to see how immigration is only making things worse. You are only fooling yourselves by trying to demote this to some discussion where you can tar everyone as a racist because they would like to look after their fellow countrymen first before people from other countries.

As for saying that the USA and Canada etc. all have huge populations and can handle small number of immigrants, do they realise that Australia only has about 5 times our population and thats where one of those clowns is going?

Only 5 times the population? So about 20 mil yeah? Small country :rolleyes:

IHATELIBERTAS

DarkJager wrote: »

Ignorant mentality? The only ignorance on display here is from the PC types who are too blinded to realise what a critical state our country is in, and fail to see how immigration is only making things worse. You are only fooling yourselves by trying to demote this to some discussion where you can tar everyone as a racist because they would like to look after their fellow countrymen first before people from other countries.

do you mean outside EU yeah?

MIN2511

KerranJast wrote: »

There are jobs. Irish people are just too stuck up to take menial work. They'd rather sponge off the Dole and watch Ricki Lake than clean toliets.

No, thats not true....

Last Wednesday, i went to Mc Donald's to drop my CV

Me: Hi there
Girl: Sorry we...
Me: (cutting her short) I would like to drop my CV, are ye looking for staff?
Girl: That's what i was trying to tell you-We are not recruiting!
Me: Ah sorry i thought you were going to ask what i wanted, thanks anyways.

So that day i decided that a masters would be nice, i would work on a personal project while am at it.

OPENROAD

DarkJager wrote: »

Ignorant mentality? The only ignorance on display here is from the PC types who are too blinded to realise what a critical state our country is in, and fail to see how immigration is only making things worse. You are only fooling yourselves by trying to demote this to some discussion where you can tar everyone as a racist because they would like to look after their fellow countrymen first before people from other countries.




Only 5 times the population? So about 20 mil yeah? Small country :rolleyes:

Still taking jobs that could be filled by local people, as you said look after their fellow countrymen first.

chosen1

DarkJager wrote: »

Only 5 times the population? So about 20 mil yeah? Small country :rolleyes:

20 million is not a huge population in world terms and they are getting multiples of immigration we are getting.

Also never in my post did I mention anyone was racist so please dont misquote me! Its more likely your xenophobic if you know the difference. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

sneakerfreak

sunshine007 wrote: »

Just outta curiosity, if an individual has only been working for say a year and half and then finds themselves out of work, has no savings etc, are they still entitled to Nothing? No money to pay rent, or catch a flight home... cant claim dole.... what does that individual do?

ends up on the street

i have a Lithuanian mate staying on my sofa til he can gather enough to fly home,he was refused any welfare.he had worked here for 5 years paying PRSI contributions,went home to work for 6 months then returned here about a year ago and got maybe 8 months work but was let go and now cant get anything from the social due to the 6 months he was away.
He doesnt complain and is glad he was able to work here.Im a bit of a rascist myself sometimes and fairly right wing on some issues but this crap about "fly over and claim dole" and all the other bo0llix being spouted by people is a joke.it really doesnt happen like that.

Biggins

galwayrush wrote: »

There's no jobs and they sure ain't coming for the ****ing weather.:rolleyes:

Tue.

I can understand both sides of the coin to be fair.
Yes, we were in the same boat many years ago.
BUT - we entered other lands not to take advantage of a social welfare system. I know not all are coming here to do this but SERIOUSLY, right now, why are they still coming otherwise in such numbers?

When we invaded England, America, Australia, etc we went with the knowledge that when we got there, we wouldn't be relying upon the state to fill our pockets. Food and shelter was to be gained by the blood and sweat of our own effort.

If we are still going to allow that many to stay, now that things are VERY bad economic-wise, maybe we should adopt a system that they have to wait, say six months before they can apply for state benefits, etc.
That way at least, they have to come to our island with a basic contingent of money to survive for a while. Maybe in those six months they might find even a basic job!

It not about picking on immigrants - it's about Ireland's economic survival.

I'd like to throw out there another thought.
When we went to other countries, the majority of the time like America and Australia, etc the economic status of the places were on the up. The building of America, the building of Australia, etc...

For the coming time at least, there has to be changes in the way things have to be done.
When we are back on more solid ground, I'll gladly welcome more in.
We just can't keep feeding everyone till the larder is bare - and meanwhile still let the awaiting line still get bigger!

Guy:Incognito

The Saint wrote: »

I'll take that as a no from you too. Maybe instead of looking at immigrants as welfare spongers we should be looking at our homegrown ones.

Why? Every country has spongers. What the others dont do is import more.


I know (personnally) of plenty of "asylum seekers" (inverted commas are because they arent asylum seekers at all, they have been aorund europe for years and regularly go home for holidays) raping the system here. A few laugh openly about it and have no issue talkign about it.

If Irsih people go aboad thats someone elses problem. The people (irish or otherwise) within our borders are ours.


The whole world knows we are in the **** and unemployment is soaring. Theres no reason any one would decide to come here now seeking work.

The €200 dole is the most attractive thing about the country at the minute.

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

BUT - we entered other lands not to take advantage of a social welfare system.

Ah Biggins, good post, BUT, The above, Come on!

We had a special relationship with Britain before EU Laws on claiming welfare in other countries.

Ireland is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, this law exists.

LightningBolt

sneakerfreak wrote: »

it really doesnt happen like that.

It still happens. Not on a great scale mind but it still happens. Exact same as people in Norn.Ire claiming both sides of the border.

OPENROAD

Biggins wrote: »

.

I'd like to throw out there another thought.
When we went to other countries, the majority of the time like America and Australia, etc the economic status of the places were on the up. The building of America, the building of Australia, etc...

For the coming time at least, there has to be changes in the way things have to be done.

Plenty of Irish heading across to places where the Economies are certainly not on the up now

Oh and plenty of Irish claimed welfare in the UK and were very happy to rather than work ,just like plenty worked very hard, we were not perfect.

You do make some very valid points and this country is in big trouble but I think you will find that plenty of people that came over during the so called Celtic tiger are now heading home as work dries up.

K-9

OPENROAD wrote: »

Plenty of Irish heading across to places where the Economies are certainly not on the up now

Oh and plenty of Irish claimed welfare in the UK and were very happy to rather than work ,just like plenty worked very hard, we were not perfect.

You do make some very valid points and this country is in big trouble but I think you will find that plenty of people that came over during the so called Celtic tiger are now heading home as work dries up.

Indeed, the stats back that up.

Last stats I seen was 20,000 immigrants was claiming dole. That was a few months ago. They are actually a lower percentage compared to amounts in the Labour Force, which is a good indication.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

Ah Biggins, good post, BUT, The above, Come on!

We had a special relationship with Britain before EU Laws on claiming welfare in other countries.

Ireland is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, this law exists.

I'm talking/refering to the times when America, etc were new countries.
The late 70's/80's were a different ball game and yes, for that one period some of us were just as bad/guilty.
The other times I think (and admitted, I could be wrong) we went expecting nothing except maybe a chance to work for money that was already there in the country to be made.
Clearly the money is no longer here as much as it was 10 years ago.
Temporary-wise, we no longer need to make adjustments - we HAVE to make adjustments.
Thats just the way things have to be - at least for a while.
I SERIOUSLY don't like it either but we have to start somewhere in all areas of economic leakage.

Guy:Incognito

OPENROAD wrote: »

Plenty of Irish heading across to places where the Economies are certainly not on the up now .

They are going in the hope of getting work. I really cant see why anyone with a brain would leave the dole here (€200) to go to England and claim , what, £50? Will America give you a penny?

Xiney

sunshine007 wrote: »

Just outta curiosity, if an individual has only been working for say a year and half and then finds themselves out of work, has no savings etc, are they still entitled to Nothing? No money to pay rent, or catch a flight home... cant claim dole.... what does that individual do?

They could get Jobseeker's Allowance, which is means tested. It's easier to have the PRSI contributions waived on that one.

But they wouldn't be eligible for Jobseeker's benefit, no.

Biggins

Any people that came here from other lands and found work and there is thousands... welcome.
The Irish people do know what it is to struggle for even basic needs.
We appreciate you contributing towards the state in regards to tax, vat and everything else the F.F. gang can come up with.
You are to be no longer regarded as outsiders. If ye are contributing to this country, as far as I am concerned - your part of our national family. No if's - no buts.

Its ONLY that NOW when things are really, really tight and the money is just not there, that I have concern over.
We need to slow many things down as regards monetary "leakage" as I've phrased it.
It's only temp-wise but it needs to be done.
If I was in power and things grow into a more stronger economic base again, I'd be the first one to open the immigrant gates a bit wider again.
HONEST.
I'll stand at the gates, shake your hand and say "welcome".

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

I'm talking/refering to the times when America, etc were new countries.
The late 70's/80's were a different ball game and yes, for that one period some of us were just as bad/guilty.
The other times I think (and admitted, I could be wrong) we went expecting nothing except maybe a chance to work for money that was already there in the country to be made.
Clearly the money is no longer here as much as it was 10 years ago.
Temporary-wise, we no longer need to make adjustments - we HAVE to make adjustments.
Thats just the way things have to be - at least for a while.
I SERIOUSLY don't like it either but we have to start somewhere in all areas of economic leakage.

The same rules apply as any Irish worker for Unemployment claims. That was the idea behind the law, no discrimination. Work your 2 years, get your UB for 12 months, same as us.

I see your point, but we've moved on. Thank God!

Anybody watch the ITV News?

Sad to see Portugese workers leaving Britain because of fear over safety since the protests last week. I hope we don't get to that level.

We prided ourselves in not being a colonial power. Why start now?

OPENROAD

Stekelly wrote: »

They are going in the hope of getting work. I really cant see why anyone with a brain would leave the dole here (€200) to go to England and claim , what, £50? Will America give you a penny?

I was replying to Biggins point, have a read back.

Indeed Irish going abroad may well be going looking for work but everywhere is seeing unemployment figures rise and fast, if people are getting upset about people coming here taking Irish jobs then you can understanf some locals might be upset about the Irish going to their country when unemplyment is risng and possibly taking local jobs. We can't have it both ways.


RE Welfare, I'm talking about the 70's etc... plenty went across with possibly the intention of getting work but ended up claiming welfare in the UK.

asdasd

20 million is not a huge population in world terms and they are getting multiples of immigration we are getting.

students. Listen up.

Having established that Australis has a population of 20 million people we can verify the truth of this statement. Australia acually controlls it's borders, unlike Ireland, which has to allow 400 million people enter, 100 million or so from Eastern Europe which is slightly richer than Mexico.

I googled the figures for Australia. The figure for 2007-2008 was 152,000. Thats equivalent to 30,000 people coming to Ireland, a figure which I doubt would be of much problem to anyone. The numbers coming to Ireland, according to the OP, is 8K a month, or 96K a year - equivalent to australia taking in 500,000 people a year in the midst of a recession.

Irish Labour needs to grow balls. Unfortunatley the private sector is not unionised ( were it we would nto be in this pos.)

It was always cant to say "jobs the Irish wouldnt do". We did the jobs before immigration. Irish people were displaced from those jobs, and clearly in a time of net job losses, all immigration is taking jobs that unemployed Irish would do. The 8,000 immigrants are taking jobs which would otherwise have gone to Irish people.

the people arguing against this are from the upper middle classes ( who protect their jobs - so fradulent "freedom of movement" in the EU that the professional classes have protected their turf - you cant come here and become a dentist for instace. Sickening), or have nice protected jobs in the Public Sector, or are smelly students. Or capitalists , normally petty bourgeois types adding the half pence to the pence, and pious antimonious PC prayer to shivering prayer. Same old.

For everybody else the import of labour is not in their interests. stop spouting ruling class claptrap.

OPENROAD

K-9 wrote: »

Sad to see Portugese workers leaving Britain because of fear over safety since the protests last week. I hope we don't get to that level.

I think we will sadly.

asdasd

We prided ourselves in not being a colonial power. Why start now?

so controlling borders nd protecting local jobs is like being a "colonial power".

asdasd

I think we will sadly.

I think we wont sady. We have a supine, controlled, un-unionised working class in the private sector.

IHATELIBERTAS

EU RIGHTS FOR EU WORKERS.

Ireland will never see the same immigration from the rest of the EU even when times are good. hopefully the share of wealth can spread across the eu in the coming years and decades. eu wide minimum wage?

BendiBus

Biggins wrote: »

BUT - we entered other lands not to take advantage of a social welfare system.

When we invaded England, America, Australia, etc we went with the knowledge that when we got there, we wouldn't be relying upon the state to fill our pockets. Food and shelter was to be gained by the blood and sweat of our own effort.

Very romantic.

I worked in a pub in London in the mid 80s. A good many of my customers were Irish and on the UK dole.

OPENROAD

asdasd wrote: »

I think we wont sady. We have a supine, controlled, un-unionised working class in the private sector.

Might not see the protests but think we will see the "Irish Jobs for Irish,.." as unemplyment rises.

asdasd

EU RIGHTS FOR EU WORKERS.

The rights to undercut local irish workers you mean. Typical Student claptrap.

If you want equal rights for all workers tell me why doctors, lawyers, pharmacists etc. do not have freedom of movement in the EU, and demand that out cosseted public service have to employ the Yurups whenever possible, i.e when immigrants undecut the wages. That might solve the present budegtaty crisis. The Public Service can be "jobs Irish people wont do". Or do we only displace powerless private sector workers on menial wages?

There is nothing worse than Upper middle class pretend socialism.

Biggins

BendiBus wrote: »

I worked in a pub in London in the mid 80s. A good many of my customers were Irish and on the UK dole.

Correct but see my further comments slightly back referring to that particular period.

...The late 70's/80's were a different ball game and yes, for that one period some of us were just as bad/guilty.

I don't disagree with you.

K-9

asdasd wrote: »

so controlling borders nd protecting local jobs is like being a "colonial power".

When people are in fear leaving, yes?

They rather going back to unemployment that staying working, something is wrong.

jaffa20

Oh, an imigrant slashing thread...

Lovely!

Of course, it's all their fault.

They took our jobs!!

Guy:Incognito

OPENROAD wrote: »

RE Welfare, I'm talking about the 70's etc... plenty went across with possibly the intention of getting work but ended up claiming welfare in the UK.

So because of what our parents generation did , you think we should be happy to bend over for anyone who wants to come here and take what they can?

Times change and the UK should have got their house in order back then, just like we should now.

Guy:Incognito

jaffa20 wrote: »

Oh, an imigrant slashing thread...

Lovely!

Of course, it's all their fault.

They took our jobs!!

Oh its a "the immigrants do no worng, the irish ar escumbag cavedwellers and they are only interested in comign here to help us" post.

jaffa20

Stekelly wrote: »

Oh its a "the immigrants do no worng, the irish ar escumbag cavedwellers and they are only interested in comign here to help us" post.

What? The immigrants? If you have a problem, take it to a protest in front of the dail instead of on boards.ie.

OPENROAD

Stekelly wrote: »

So because of what our parents generation did , you think we should be happy to bend over for anyone who wants to come here and take what they can?

Times change and the UK should have got their house in order back then, just like we should now.

Where have I said that?


What bugs me is the double standards.People complaining about immigrants coming here taking jobs when we do the same, we are not the only economy thas has rising unemplyment, most places have it.

Guy:Incognito

OPENROAD wrote: »

What bugs me is the double standards.People complaining about immigrants coming here taking jobs when we do the same, we are not the only economy thas has rising unemplyment, most places have it.

I have no problem with people working. They should not be entitled to claim anything though until they have a certain amount of years worked. There definately shuld be no option to come to the country and claim anythign without havign worked (or at the very least lived here under their own steam for a certain time. Giving money to people as easily as we do only attracts the ones lookign for somewhere to claim money. Genuine workers wont be affected because they will be workign anyway.

There should be controls on numbers though. Why take people in to do unskilled work when we have plenty that can do it already? Immigrants taking these jobs while people who otherwise could have done them are staying on the dole is not helping.

deadhead13

DarkJager wrote: »

IMO, immigration should be stopped completely until we have at least managed to get the country back to some sort of balanced state. It is no use letting people come in and take jobs, when our own unemployment rate is hitting nearly 10%.

Do you want to stop Irish emigration aswell - or is that "different"?

K-9

Stekelly wrote: »

I have no problem with people working. They should not be entitled to claim anything though until they have a certain amount of years worked. There definately shuld be no option to come to the country and claim anythign without havign worked (or at the very least lived here under their own steam for a certain time. Giving money to people as easily as we do only attracts the ones lookign for somewhere to claim money. Genuine workers wont be affected because they will be workign anyway.

Did you read the thread?

marcsignal

mike65 wrote: »

Sure where did the Irish go in the 80s? Britain was in recession and had 3 miilion unemployed in the mid 80s.

correct mike, I personally know people who were trinity and ncad students in the 80's, who used to go to live in london for the summer, and sign on.

Stekelly

Stekelly wrote: »

I know (personnally) of plenty of "asylum seekers" (inverted commas are because they arent asylum seekers at all, they have been aorund europe for years and regularly go home for holidays) raping the system here. A few laugh openly about it and have no issue talkign about it.

The €200 dole is the most attractive thing about the country at the minute.

Exactly, and there is plenty of them at it, sure look at the two women that were staying in Mosney and receiving benefits. It turned out that they had a chain of jewelry stores back in their own country and they were just over here for free money :mad: