Ahern scuffles with NUIG students

PrivateEye · 03-02-2009 11:47PM

That money was just resting in my account

When Fianna Fail block our access to education, why do they expect to be welcome on any campus? Fee will have a large, vibrant block on the next anti fees demo and all are welcome to join it. Theres info over on free-education.info for anybody who's interested. The need to build a campaign that isn't a careerist 'when I grow up I'll be a Labour cllr.' platform is essential at the minute.

thelordofcheese · 03-02-2009 11:54PM

FEE need to stop being a shower of clueless cretins if they want to achieve anything.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

thebigcheese22 · 04-02-2009 12:15AM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

FEE need to stop being a shower of clueless cretins if they want to achieve anything.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

What are ya talkin about 'clueless'??

From their website:
No to the commercialisation of education – business involvement in education will result in the scrapping of subjects that aren’t seen as “profitable” to companies and will distort research in science and medicine.

Fund education through central progressive taxation on the rich and the corporations.

End the €80 million/year subsidy of private second level education by the government.

Whats wrong about these aims? Nothing

Its grand to march and stuff but direct action has to be taken.
Look at this thread, who here is now aware of FEE that weren't before?
Thats a success in my books ya twat

Lockstep · 04-02-2009 12:22AM

PrivateEye wrote: »

That money was just resting in my account

When Fianna Fail block our access to education, why do they expect to be welcome on any campus? Fee will have a large, vibrant block on the next anti fees demo and all are welcome to join it. Theres info over on free-education.info for anybody who's interested. The need to build a campaign that isn't a careerist 'when I grow up I'll be a Labour cllr.' platform is essential at the minute.

AFAIK Councillors do not get paid.

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

What are ya talkin about 'clueless'??

From their website:
No to the commercialisation of education – business involvement in education will result in the scrapping of subjects that aren’t seen as “profitable” to companies and will distort research in science and medicine.

Fund education through central progressive taxation on the rich and the corporations.

End the €80 million/year subsidy of private second level education by the government.

Whats wrong about these aims? Nothing

Its grand to march and stuff but direct action has to be taken.
Look at this thread, who here is now aware of FEE that weren't before?
Thats a success in my books ya twat

Noone is questioning FEE's objectives. What students had a problem with was the way that they went about it; an unregistered society disrupting the events of a registered one which had students queuing all down the Concourse to see.

I am far from a Fianna Fáil supporter and initially worked with FEE but despite the claims that all publicity is good, this isnt the case. FEE came out of this looking badly, you only need to see the debate that Lit and Deb chaired last night to see the general reaction.
Maybe things have improved because of the meeting today where members of Lit and Deb, Cumann De Barra and so on were able to get their point across but this could have results on the student population's views on FEE

Ostrom · 04-02-2009 12:24AM

panda100 wrote: »

Please explain your reasoning here?
Your taking sides with an obscenely wealthy man whom has lied through his teeth to the Irish people, guiding the country towards mass unemployment and is now expecting those who profited least out of the boom to bail out his and his friends fraudelent and criminal spending. Even during the very short lived boom we still had mass inequality,poverty,dire healthcare and education systems. Not to mention his role in aiding US military to kill a million Iraqis.The list goes on and on.

How much has the Herald brainwashed you that you think Bertie really is this loveable rogue who lives for only his beloved Dublin GAA matches!

I commend FEE for their actions in Galway yesterday. TD's have absolutely no right swanning on to university campus's in chauffered driven merc's while they stand by the millions they spend annually on the salarys and bonuses of the University heads and private education

All serious issues but.....

Its not exactly a worthy battleground for students' rights, heckling him from a public debate. Stupid reaction shots like this will accomplish nothing - only a further loss of already limited public sympathy. FEE's approach is completely counter-intuitive

thebigcheese22 · 04-02-2009 12:32AM

efla wrote: »

All serious issues but.....

Its not exactly a worthy battleground for students' rights, heckling him from a public debate. Stupid reaction shots like this will accomplish nothing - only a further loss of already limited public sympathy. FEE's approach is completely counter-intuitive

Tbh I am the same as the previous poster, I was in FEE and withdrew recently. I thought they were taking direct action too much, rather than peaceful action in tandem with more direct options. Also it allowed my party to spend more time on our issues, as it was taking too much of our time tbh. There are a lot of twats in it, but equally there are people willing to get arrested for the right of education. They will always have my support because of this.

stovelid · 04-02-2009 12:47AM

It's a toughie: take sides between Ahern and a bunch of students. From Galway.

Kinda like a cup final between two teams that you hate.

Ostrom · 04-02-2009 12:47AM

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Tbh I am the same as the previous poster, I was in FEE and withdrew recently. I thought they were taking direct action too much, rather than peaceful action in tandem with more direct options. Also it allowed my party to spend more time on our issues, as it was taking too much of our time tbh. There are a lot of twats in it, but equally there are people willing to get arrested for the right of education. They will always have my support because of this.

We did something similar in WIT many years ago when the fees idea was being thrown around. We had good union reps - nothing like the lifestyle 'anarchism' that seems to have destroyed clever planning.

And we did things like arrange small demonstrations at senior administration meetings (with some suitably disruptive and informative chants) and present our recommendations in person to the board members.

I cant understand this petty FEE (actually I understand it perfectly) tactic - after almost 7 years it sickens me seeing stupid childish stunts like this

Epic Tissue · 04-02-2009 01:02AM

This seems so stupid. Why not let him in do and grill him in the interview?

panda100 · 04-02-2009 01:17AM

fuzzsc00ta wrote: »

FEE in NUIG are a group of about 20 kids with the right idea but absolutely no organisation. The march in Dublin is organised by the Union of Students, Ireland and the members of FEE from NUIG are attending as members of the Students Union.

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory. Their adults,I know many of them very well and have a huge respect for them.

As for a lack of organisation ,On Saturday there was a national conference held for all FEE members in Dublin. Students attended from UCD, TCD, NUM, NUIG, UL, UCC ,Sligo and many secondary school students from across Dublin. We held a public meeting after the confrence in which we invited USI and other speakers to debate with us. Alongside this our members have held public meetings,leafleted and held regular stalls in all the national universitys since October.

As for being a USI demo,yes it is, but FEE has played a vibrant role in order to ensure that there is a massive mobilisation for tommorow. We want to and try to work alongside USI,but we think students need to do more than trot out for an ineffective protest every now and again,which is all USI can seem to organise. We produced and distributed 20,000 leaflets in colleges across the country to assist in building for tommorows demo for example. The leaflets clearly state how education should be funded and why it should be free from Primary all the way to Third level.
In an intresting twist USI decided last week to ban any placards or banners that contained the phrase "free education" from being displayed at tommorows demo. We were informed that those carrying such placards would be asked to exchange them for placards carrying different slogans, by the USI appointed stewards on the demonstration.

As for 'putting people in danger' you hear this trotted out after every semi succesful protest. As I said before on these boards a 'peaceful' protest has never won anyone anything. Im sure the students were angry and shouting but please lets not overexagerate. Ive been at numerous FEE protests now where the media and society hacks act like people almost have died or something. Thats not the case at all. The last thing we would want is for people to get hurt or be placed in danger, and this has not happened at any of the protests.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

As for obscenely wealthy, define obscene wealth? How much does he have? I've no idea.

Well he did get €68,000 severance pay,not to mention the €257,024 annual taoiseach salary over the years,and all those brown envelopes and dig outs. I guess we could check his bank account but he didnt seem to have one for most of his adult life So its all a bit hazy,but sure enough you wont be finding him on the dole queue anytime soon.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bertie Aherne was not on trial here. He should be held to account for his actions - stopping him from taking part in an open debate will never lead to him being held to account.

It wasnt an open debate,It was a society giving him some sort of lifetime acheivment award.
Also, whats there to debate? The goverment have made it perfectly clear that WE need to tighten our belts, and WE need to make cutbacks. Batt O'Keefe has made it clear that schooleavers now will have to pay for fee's. So what exactly are we going to 'debate' with Mr Ahern? We believe all education should be funded by a central progressive taxation system.This means taxing the rich which Bertie,FF and the other capitalist partys will never do.

anonymous_joe · 04-02-2009 01:38AM

panda100 wrote: »

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory. Their adults,I know many of them very well and have a huge respect for them.

This is the problem with such actions. People will use these labels, and they'll stick. And it'll damage the credibility of the student body.

As for a lack of organisation ,On Saturday there was a national conference held for all FEE members in Dublin. Students attended from UCD, TCD, NUM, NUIG, UL, UCC ,Sligo and many secondary school students from across Dublin. We held a public meeting after the confrence in which we invited USI and other speakers to debate with us. Alongside this our members have held public meetings,leafleted and held regular stalls in all the national universitys since October.

As for being a USI demo,yes it is, but FEE has played a vibrant role in order to ensure that there is a massive mobilisation for tommorow. We want to and try to work alongside USI,but we think students need to do more than trot out for an ineffective protest every now and again,which is all USI can seem to organise. We produced and distributed 20,000 leaflets in colleges across the country to assist in building for tommorows demo for example. The leaflets clearly state how education should be funded and why it should be free from Primary all the way to Third level.
In an intresting twist USI decided last week to ban any placards or banners that contained the phrase "free education" from being displayed at tommorows demo. We were informed that those carrying such placards would be asked to exchange them for placards carrying different slogans, by the USI appointed stewards on the demonstration.

What would you like to see students doing?

As for 'putting people in danger' you hear this trotted out after every semi succesful protest. As I said before on these boards a 'peaceful' protest has never won anyone anything. Im sure the students were angry and shouting but please lets not overexagerate. Ive been at numerous FEE protests now where the media and society hacks act like people almost have died or something. Thats not the case at all. The last thing we would want is for people to get hurt or be placed in danger, and this has not happened at any of the protests.

Gandhi had some success if I remember rightly.

Well he did get €68,000 severance pay,not to mention the €257,024 annual taoiseach salary over the years,and all those brown envelopes and dig outs. I guess we could check his bank account but he didnt seem to have one for most of his adult life So its all a bit hazy,but sure enough you wont be finding him on the dole queue anytime soon.

How much does a doctor make annually?

What about a barrister or solicitor? Or a businessman, etc?

There are obvious doubts about his honesty, but people in this country happily voted him in. You get the politicians you deserve.

Anyway, he got a much lower salary than most CEO's etc would have, so while wealthy and probably corrupt, he's not obscenely wealthy. If he was a corrupt billionaire I'd agree with obscene.

It wasnt an open debate,It was a society giving him some sort of lifetime acheivment award.
Also, whats there to debate? The goverment have made it perfectly clear that WE need to tighten our belts, and WE need to make cutbacks. Batt O'Keefe has made it clear that schooleavers now will have to pay for fee's. So what exactly are we going to 'debate' with Mr Ahern? We believe all education should be funded by a central progressive taxation system.This means taxing the rich which Bertie,FF and the other capitalist partys will never do.

Well if we don't make cutbacks who the fúck will? The country's got less money than it spends. Where's the money going to come from?

And anyway, much as I dislike Bertie, he's not a part of the government, is he? He's not the one behind this.

And before you come up with some bullshít about a progressive tax system, the rich are already taxed more than the poor. They're not going to be taxed anymore because if they were, you'd have a scenario where it would not be worth their while living in Ireland, and they'd all fúck off elsewhere. Wouldn't it be great if all our doctors and so on left for England to avoid tax?

Anyway, much as a progressive tax system would be a fair thing, that's not going to happen until the next elections. And even when it does, how do you know that will generate enough income to pay for all expenditure?

dcukhunter · 04-02-2009 01:49AM

panda100 wrote: »

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory. Their adults.

Exactly if they want to be treated like adults why dont they act like adults. In my estate they came in around 9:30 or 10 blaring their horns and shouting into loudspeekers waking up kids that were asleep. If they want support this is not the way to do it. From talking to others today most just think to feck with them just let them pay the fee's and be done with it.

pagancornflake · 04-02-2009 02:33AM

Puddleduck wrote: »

Aw dang, I thought someone had broken his other leg...

He looked visably shaken..maybe that crutch hes on isnt steady as I doubt anyone even got near him before the gardai stepped in

Well I can only hope that something of this nature happens to YOU when you are in your 50's. And may I ask what the basis for this "doubt" is in your second sentence?

pagancornflake · 04-02-2009 02:56AM

Pub07 wrote: »

What the hell were the Lit and Deb society at in the first place planning to give Bertie an award. The Lit and Deb society of NUIG are a disgrace, theyre the wannabe future politicians in this country trying to get a foot in the door. The neck on the **** wanting to give an award to a corrupt politician who's done so much to damage this country.

Considering the comment you were replying to, all of what you said is irrelevant. Try to stay on topic (the topic would be: How to justify the passive aggressive blockades which disrupt other societies). Considering the fact that they could simply enter the venue they are blocking and argue with the man, I fail to see the practicality of their psuedo-symbolic line "they're blocking us so we'll block them".

Caliden · 04-02-2009 03:28AM

He started it! He started on about my ma

javaboy · 04-02-2009 04:18AM

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Its grand to march and stuff but direct action has to be taken.
Look at this thread, who here is now aware of FEE that weren't before?
Thats a success in my books ya twat

Banned for personal abuse.

sceptre · 04-02-2009 04:24AM

panda100 wrote: »

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory.

No idea whether the person who originally posted that comment came back on that one but from my perspective, I tend to think of them as kids. Significantly because at UL at a protest before Christmas, I was inside the building that FEE were protesting outside and watched a number of them resort to kicking a glass door because they weren't allowed in. That's not the kind of behaviour that one can reasonably expect from adults acting in an adult manner.

Incidentally, not that it should matter, I'm a currently registered full time undergraduate student. I'm also a correspondent for a local paper on activities in the college I attend (which is UL). I also work what is effectively a full-time job (in addition to the newspaper stuff) while doing that course and have done for its duration. I've also been on two students' union executives, the one that existed the year free fees were first adopted and last year, which if you like you could call the year that free fees began to be abandoned. I have particular views on university charges, fees, to whom they should apply, when, where and why. Those views aren't coloured by my current student status, my past workforce status, past student status or future workforce status. Nevertheless, they exist and I'm mentioning all of this in case anyone thinks my strong views on FEE and their actions are the views of someone who makes up their mind on student fees based on whether or not I have to pay them. From what I've seen of FEE, they're a shower of idiots who'd turn up to protest the opening of an envelope if it gave them some political credence in their heads, which they judge solely by media placement.

Judging from the coverage I've seen so far and examining the youtube videos that have surfaced, that view hasn't changed. FEE have become the biggest PR liability that the anti-fee campaign have picked up. After last night in Galway, there's a possibility that every student protest on this issue is going to be thought of by the normal people on the streets as being organised by a band of ruffians. That's not the kind of particular attention the people involved in this campaign need. There is actually such a thing as bad publicity.

phasers · 04-02-2009 10:21AM

I love Bertie Ahern

Pub07 · 04-02-2009 11:05AM

pagancornflake wrote: »

Considering the comment you were replying to, all of what you said is irrelevant. Try to stay on topic (the topic would be: How to justify the passive aggressive blockades which disrupt other societies). Considering the fact that they could simply enter the venue they are blocking and argue with the man, I fail to see the practicality of their psuedo-symbolic line "they're blocking us so we'll block them".

I was highlighting the fact that the sole reason Bertie was there was to collect an award which is outragreous considering how corrupt he was and how much of the country's money he squandered, and the people giving the award are doing so just to further there own future careers in politics, no wonder Irish politics is so corrupt. I think the fact that he was there to collect an award and how stupid that concept is, is a point that has been lost in the controversy over the protest.

pagancornflake · 04-02-2009 04:41PM

Pub07 wrote: »

I was highlighting the fact that the sole reason Bertie was there was to collect an award which is outragreous considering how corrupt he was and how much of the country's money he squandered, and the people giving the award are doing so just to further there own future careers in politics, no wonder Irish politics is so corrupt. I think the fact that he was there to collect an award and how stupid that concept is, is a point that has been lost in the controversy over the protest.

I know what you were trying to highlight. That is a point that would be better expressed to the man himself. I would dearly love to listen to him react to it, but unfortunatley, that is no longer going to be a possibility if there is a minority which is blocking access to speakers with methodical childishness. Hence the focus of the controversy. Any point to be made on the mans career is muted by the fact that we cannot confront him with it.

Ally Dick · 04-02-2009 04:44PM

Nodin wrote: »

Seeing as he's 'yesterdays man', getting on to him about current policy is a bit pointless.

He is the main cause of the current mess, and should still be held accountable for it. Biffo played his part but Bertie was the reckless bastard who created the property bubble and did nothing to calm it down.

04-02-2009 05:01PM

What is wrong with you people..This sends a good message to the government that people aren't going to put up with your **** at the moment. The cheek of that little **** to turn up to collect a big WELL DONE BERTIE award for basically being one of the most corrupt and inept taoiseachs we've ever had.

These untouchables need to learn that should you choose to rip us off, take dodgy handouts from your mates and then make sure that said mates get the full backing of the government to make them rich as hell that there'll be consequences.

This chap should be in bloody jail, not accepting BS awards.

Why is it that Obama's nominations who had tax discrepancies both stood down immediately. However in this horrible little country they end up with the full backing of the people and are heralded as heroes.

Sickening some of the anti-protester/pro-bertie ****e in this thread.

thelordofcheese · 04-02-2009 05:44PM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

his sends a good message to the government that people aren't going to put up with your **** at the moment.

It sends the message that FEE are a a bunch of poorly organised halfwits who shouldn't be listened to. No matter how strongly you feel about bertie he still has the right to go about his business without being heckled and having stuff lobbed at him by a bunch of over excitable students.

If FEE were serious they'd have let bertie attend the debate and have him grilled there, not let their che guevara fantasies run riot.

Lockstep · 05-02-2009 12:32AM

I am Labour NUIG, I am no fan of Bertie but still wanted to see him talk.
FEE's actions do not represent those who dislike Bertie and what he stands for. Noone should be interfering with the events of registered societys like Lit and Deb in such a manner.

I met him afterwards and he was a lovely chap. As a person etc.

Ahern scuffles with NUIG students

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