Ahern scuffles with NUIG students

Lockstep

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0203/1232923384364.html

Irish Times wrote:

Anti-fees demonstration forces Ahern to abandon public interview
The former taoiseach Bertie Ahern outside the O'Flaherty lecture theatre at NUI Galway last night. Mr Ahern had to abandon a public discussion.The former taoiseach Bertie Ahern outside the O'Flaherty lecture theatre at NUI Galway last night. Mr Ahern had to abandon a public discussion.

LORNA SIGGINS, Western Correspondent

FORMER TAOISEACH Bertie Ahern had to abandon a public discussion in NUI Galway (NUIG) last night when he was jostled by students protesting over the planned reintroduction of college fees.

Several dozen gardaí were involved in trying to break up the protest, which began at the entrance to the campus shortly before 8pm and continued outside a lecture theatre for another 45 minutes. Gardaí made one arrest.

Mr Ahern, who was still on crutches due to his recent leg injury, had been invited to a reception in the college quadrangle before taking part in the public interview.

The interview, hosted by the NUIG Literary and Debating Society, was to have been conducted by Connacht Tribune editor Dave O’Connell.

As Mr Ahern’s approached the venue from Newcastle road, his car was held up by 30 students who sat on the ground and linked arms to prevent access to the campus. The students are supporters of the Free Education for Everyone (Free) campaign.

Gardaí following in three squad cars removed the protesters, some of whom claimed that they were “roughed up” by officers.

Mr Ahern attended the reception in the quadrangle, and was then escorted to the college concourse.

The former taoiseach was shaking hands with students en route to the O’Flaherty lecture theatre when he was then jostled. Up to 15 gardaí surrounded Mr Ahern and locked arms to escort him into the theatre. The demonstration continued outside, and a decision was then taken to cancel the function. Mr Ahern, who was visibly shaken, was unable to leave the theatre for about 20 minutes until arrangements were made for his safe exit. Protesters had blocked one lift, and the exit was limited to the main concourse door.

Several hundred students had been waiting for up to an hour to attend the discussion, and some expressed disappointment that the event had to be cancelled.

Literary and Debating Society auditor Dan Colley, a grandson of the late Fianna Fáil politician George Colley, said he was “disappointed” at the turn of events. “I think they were probably picking the wrong target in picking Bertie Ahern,” he said. “This was a failure of freedom of speech.”

He invited students to participate in a debate on Thursday on the college fees issue, which Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Éamon Ó Cuív has been invited to address.

The society was due to present a president’s medal to Mr Ahern; Mr Colley said that this would be presented to him at a later date. Mr Ahern was driven from the college to the G Hotel in Galway. Richard Manton of Free said the students had taken a decision to block any Fianna Fáil politician from entering the college by peaceful means.

“They want to block our right to an education by re-introducing college fees,” he said.

For the record, the group is called FEE, not Free.

Mark200

Soo would you say Mr Ahern had to abandon a public discussion?

Lockstep

Yup, I would say that.

The majority of the students present wanted to see Ahern. Massive queue and all.

Nodin

Seeing as he's 'yesterdays man', getting on to him about current policy is a bit pointless.

Wagon

It was a bit pointless. Let him speak first, then have a go at him :P Still, i don't have any faith in whatever this government does and I'm willing to bet they make an absolute balls of the proposed plan.

The students should have used snowballs. Is it snowing in Galway?

Biggins

I would have like the see the creep take some hard questioning but it does not surprise me to see the schite run away at the sign of any one he don't like the look of.
Good riddance to the piece of garbage.

thelordofcheese

I'm just waiting for someone to try and spin this into being aherns fault, as opposed to a bunch of over stimulated students being retards.

Edit: DAMN YOU BIGGINS!

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

I would have like the see the creep take some hard questioning but it does not surprise me to see the schite run hop away at the sign of any one he don't like the look of.
Good riddance to the piece of garbage.

fyp

Puddleduck

Aw dang, I thought someone had broken his other leg...

He looked visably shaken..maybe that crutch hes on isnt steady as I doubt anyone even got near him before the gardai stepped in

dunnomede?

How long has been on those crutches? Is he claiming compensation or sick benefit or something?

fuzzsc00ta

Check out the thread in the Galway City forum:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055478498

Dyr

He's fairly milking those crutches

Biggins

Lets be honest - he was invited there by a Fianna Failer AND to ge given an award (what the fcuk for!) for some crap!
Not exactly the athmosphere that was going to allow students to stand up and put some hard REALISTIC questions put to him!

"O' look - there are angry voices out there. I better hop it!"

diverdriver

No snow in Galway, Wagon. In fact it was a gloriously sunny day if a bit cold.

No time for those particular student troublemakers. You can make a point without behaving like thugs. I don't think they represent the actual student body. By frightening him away they let him off the hook.

Because frankly, Ahern needs to be confronted. He is a liar and crooked and at least as much to blame for the current economic mess we're in as Cowen and the other lame brains. I mean he seriously claimed that a five figure sum of sterling he lodged in his bank account was winnings from betting on the horses. :rolleyes: He's either a compulsive gambler or a liar. You choose!

If I ever meet him again. I will have to bit my tongue to stop me telling him what I think of him. He's no better than Haughey.

m-i-t-s-u-k-o

Mark200 wrote: »

Soo would you say Mr Ahern had to abandon a public discussion?

I was there.
It was cancelled because the gardai and campus security advised that it should be because it was getting very dangerous and violent.

Biggins

More shoe throwing? Where they going to throw their books that are frakin' expensive?
I don't think Galway students are an armed militia!

Its is indeed a pity he ran away. I would have liked to hear his answers IF he was going to face any
serious questioning but i suspect it was just going to be a near love-fest for him anyway indoors.

thelordofcheese

m-i-t-s-u-k-o wrote: »

I was there.
It was cancelled because the gardai and campus security advised that it should be because it was getting very dangerous and violent.

Please, what actually happened has no place on this thread.
It's an AH thread that features something political,I fully expect someone to accuse ahern of fisting kittens within about three pages.

m-i-t-s-u-k-o

Lmao.. it's just what's reeally getting to me is that if you check out indymedia and youtube, FEE are outright lying about what happened.

Puddleduck

m-i-t-s-u-k-o wrote: »

Lmao.. it's just what's reeally getting to me is that if you check out indymedia and youtube, FEE are outright lying about what happened.

So what happened?

m-i-t-s-u-k-o

http://www.sin.ie/cms/view/332/

That would be the best and most accurate account about it.

Squeeonline

The man is on crutches because his leg hasnt healed properly yet. Its taking a lot longer than he thought but physio is continuing he told me.

Biggins

Here is FEE's offical website: http://free-education.info/
(note: site not updated yet as to events)

anonymous_joe

Yay, more tits píssing people off. Idiots like this are giving students a bad name. The rest of the country's going to be a lot happier to see students lose out if this shít continues.

Hell I don't like Aherne, but this makes him look like the good guy. Fair fúcks to the FEE lads, for the first time in my life (except when it comes to United :pac:) I'm actually on the same side as Bertie Aherne.

galwayrush

Poor Bertie, all dolled up with make up and the party was cancelled.:D

Professey Chin

Mark200 wrote: »

Soo would you say Mr Ahern had to abandon a public discussion?

Yes I would Kent

*proceeds to eat brain goo*

dollybird09

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Yes I would Kent

*proceeds to eat brain goo*

mmmmmm brain goo....

panda100

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Yay, more tits píssing people off. Idiots like this are giving students a bad name. The rest of the country's going to be a lot happier to see students lose out if this shít continues.

Hell I don't like Aherne, but this makes him look like the good guy. Fair fúcks to the FEE lads, for the first time in my life (except when it comes to United :pac:) I'm actually on the same side as Bertie Aherne.

Please explain your reasoning here?
Your taking sides with an obscenely wealthy man whom has lied through his teeth to the Irish people, guiding the country towards mass unemployment and is now expecting those who profited least out of the boom to bail out his and his friends fraudelent and criminal spending. Even during the very short lived boom we still had mass inequality,poverty,dire healthcare and education systems. Not to mention his role in aiding US military to kill a million Iraqis.The list goes on and on.

How much has the Herald brainwashed you that you think Bertie really is this loveable rogue who lives for only his beloved Dublin GAA matches!

I commend FEE for their actions in Galway yesterday. TD's have absolutely no right swanning on to university campus's in chauffered driven merc's while they stand by the millions they spend annually on the salarys and bonuses of the University heads and private education

fuzzsc00ta

panda100 wrote: »

I commend FEE for their actions in Galway yesterday. TD's have absolutely no right swanning on to university campus's in chauffered driven merc's while they stand by the millions they spend annually on the salarys and bonuses of the University heads and private education

FEE in NUIG are a group of about 20 kids with the right idea but absolutely no organisation. The march in Dublin is organised by the Union of Students, Ireland and the members of FEE from NUIG are attending as members of the Students Union.

Bertie was invited by the Literary and Debating society to come and speak in the college. What right does 20 people have to disrupt the activities of an actual student society? (They are a group of individuals calling themselves "FEE" but not recognised by the University).

They put people in danger last night, their own members included. They need to cop on.

Pub07

fuzzsc00ta wrote: »

Bertie was invited by the Literary and Debating society to come and speak in the college. What right does 20 people have to disrupt the activities of an actual student society? (They are a group of individuals calling themselves "FEE" but not recognised by the University).

What the hell were the Lit and Deb society at in the first place planning to give Bertie an award. The Lit and Deb society of NUIG are a disgrace, theyre the wannabe future politicians in this country trying to get a foot in the door. The neck on the **** wanting to give an award to a corrupt politician who's done so much to damage this country.

Biggins

fuzzsc00ta wrote: »

FEE in NUIG are a group of about 20 kids with the right idea but absolutely no organisation.

Strange - for something that has no organisation, they, all-over which I'm sure the Galway section contributes, have a hell of a website and following!
Strange that!

http://free-education.info/

anonymous_joe

panda100 wrote: »

Please explain your reasoning here?
Your taking sides with an obscenely wealthy man whom has lied through his teeth to the Irish people, guiding the country towards mass unemployment and is now expecting those who profited least out of the boom to bail out his and his friends fraudelent and criminal spending. Even during the very short lived boom we still had mass inequality,poverty,dire healthcare and education systems. Not to mention his role in aiding US military to kill a million Iraqis.The list goes on and on.

How much has the Herald brainwashed you that you think Bertie really is this loveable rogue who lives for only his beloved Dublin GAA matches!

I commend FEE for their actions in Galway yesterday. TD's have absolutely no right swanning on to university campus's in chauffered driven merc's while they stand by the millions they spend annually on the salarys and bonuses of the University heads and private education

The Heddild? I'm insulted.

As for obscenely wealthy, define obscene wealth? How much does he have? I've no idea.

I despise Ahern, and his FF cronies, and I've never voted for them in my life.

First things first:

Bertie Aherne was not on trial here. He should be held to account for his actions - stopping him from taking part in an open debate will never lead to him being held to account.

'FEE' are trying to draw attention to the issue of fees. Plenty of people have a bad enough image of students as it is (our beloved UCD having it's bus service cancelled at night is great evidence of the calibre of people who are students), this cannot and will not help us. Call me cynical, but I'd want to make students look good in the media, not like aggressive and violent idiots.

You know how people like Bertie Aherne got elected? They looked fan-fúcking-tastic. They talked the talk and walked the walk for enough people to get elected. If us students want to earn people's good will, then we need to do something similar, not pull stunts like this which will píss away any good will towards us.

PrivateEye

That money was just resting in my account

When Fianna Fail block our access to education, why do they expect to be welcome on any campus? Fee will have a large, vibrant block on the next anti fees demo and all are welcome to join it. Theres info over on free-education.info for anybody who's interested. The need to build a campaign that isn't a careerist 'when I grow up I'll be a Labour cllr.' platform is essential at the minute.

thelordofcheese

FEE need to stop being a shower of clueless cretins if they want to achieve anything.


I wouldn't hold my breath.

thebigcheese22

thelordofcheese wrote: »

FEE need to stop being a shower of clueless cretins if they want to achieve anything.


I wouldn't hold my breath.

What are ya talkin about 'clueless'??

From their website:
No to the commercialisation of education – business involvement in education will result in the scrapping of subjects that aren’t seen as “profitable” to companies and will distort research in science and medicine.

Fund education through central progressive taxation on the rich and the corporations.

End the €80 million/year subsidy of private second level education by the government.



Whats wrong about these aims? Nothing

Its grand to march and stuff but direct action has to be taken.
Look at this thread, who here is now aware of FEE that weren't before?
Thats a success in my books ya twat

Lockstep

PrivateEye wrote: »

That money was just resting in my account

When Fianna Fail block our access to education, why do they expect to be welcome on any campus? Fee will have a large, vibrant block on the next anti fees demo and all are welcome to join it. Theres info over on free-education.info for anybody who's interested. The need to build a campaign that isn't a careerist 'when I grow up I'll be a Labour cllr.' platform is essential at the minute.

AFAIK Councillors do not get paid.

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

What are ya talkin about 'clueless'??

From their website:
No to the commercialisation of education – business involvement in education will result in the scrapping of subjects that aren’t seen as “profitable” to companies and will distort research in science and medicine.

Fund education through central progressive taxation on the rich and the corporations.

End the €80 million/year subsidy of private second level education by the government.



Whats wrong about these aims? Nothing

Its grand to march and stuff but direct action has to be taken.
Look at this thread, who here is now aware of FEE that weren't before?
Thats a success in my books ya twat

Noone is questioning FEE's objectives. What students had a problem with was the way that they went about it; an unregistered society disrupting the events of a registered one which had students queuing all down the Concourse to see.

I am far from a Fianna Fáil supporter and initially worked with FEE but despite the claims that all publicity is good, this isnt the case. FEE came out of this looking badly, you only need to see the debate that Lit and Deb chaired last night to see the general reaction.
Maybe things have improved because of the meeting today where members of Lit and Deb, Cumann De Barra and so on were able to get their point across but this could have results on the student population's views on FEE

Ostrom

panda100 wrote: »

Please explain your reasoning here?
Your taking sides with an obscenely wealthy man whom has lied through his teeth to the Irish people, guiding the country towards mass unemployment and is now expecting those who profited least out of the boom to bail out his and his friends fraudelent and criminal spending. Even during the very short lived boom we still had mass inequality,poverty,dire healthcare and education systems. Not to mention his role in aiding US military to kill a million Iraqis.The list goes on and on.

How much has the Herald brainwashed you that you think Bertie really is this loveable rogue who lives for only his beloved Dublin GAA matches!

I commend FEE for their actions in Galway yesterday. TD's have absolutely no right swanning on to university campus's in chauffered driven merc's while they stand by the millions they spend annually on the salarys and bonuses of the University heads and private education

All serious issues but.....

Its not exactly a worthy battleground for students' rights, heckling him from a public debate. Stupid reaction shots like this will accomplish nothing - only a further loss of already limited public sympathy. FEE's approach is completely counter-intuitive

thebigcheese22

efla wrote: »

All serious issues but.....

Its not exactly a worthy battleground for students' rights, heckling him from a public debate. Stupid reaction shots like this will accomplish nothing - only a further loss of already limited public sympathy. FEE's approach is completely counter-intuitive

Tbh I am the same as the previous poster, I was in FEE and withdrew recently. I thought they were taking direct action too much, rather than peaceful action in tandem with more direct options. Also it allowed my party to spend more time on our issues, as it was taking too much of our time tbh. There are a lot of twats in it, but equally there are people willing to get arrested for the right of education. They will always have my support because of this.

stovelid

It's a toughie: take sides between Ahern and a bunch of students. From Galway.

Kinda like a cup final between two teams that you hate.

Ostrom

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Tbh I am the same as the previous poster, I was in FEE and withdrew recently. I thought they were taking direct action too much, rather than peaceful action in tandem with more direct options. Also it allowed my party to spend more time on our issues, as it was taking too much of our time tbh. There are a lot of twats in it, but equally there are people willing to get arrested for the right of education. They will always have my support because of this.

We did something similar in WIT many years ago when the fees idea was being thrown around. We had good union reps - nothing like the lifestyle 'anarchism' that seems to have destroyed clever planning.

And we did things like arrange small demonstrations at senior administration meetings (with some suitably disruptive and informative chants) and present our recommendations in person to the board members.

I cant understand this petty FEE (actually I understand it perfectly) tactic - after almost 7 years it sickens me seeing stupid childish stunts like this

Epic Tissue

This seems so stupid. Why not let him in do and grill him in the interview?

panda100

fuzzsc00ta wrote: »

FEE in NUIG are a group of about 20 kids with the right idea but absolutely no organisation. The march in Dublin is organised by the Union of Students, Ireland and the members of FEE from NUIG are attending as members of the Students Union.

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory. Their adults,I know many of them very well and have a huge respect for them.

As for a lack of organisation ,On Saturday there was a national conference held for all FEE members in Dublin. Students attended from UCD, TCD, NUM, NUIG, UL, UCC ,Sligo and many secondary school students from across Dublin. We held a public meeting after the confrence in which we invited USI and other speakers to debate with us. Alongside this our members have held public meetings,leafleted and held regular stalls in all the national universitys since October.

As for being a USI demo,yes it is, but FEE has played a vibrant role in order to ensure that there is a massive mobilisation for tommorow. We want to and try to work alongside USI,but we think students need to do more than trot out for an ineffective protest every now and again,which is all USI can seem to organise. We produced and distributed 20,000 leaflets in colleges across the country to assist in building for tommorows demo for example. The leaflets clearly state how education should be funded and why it should be free from Primary all the way to Third level.
In an intresting twist USI decided last week to ban any placards or banners that contained the phrase "free education" from being displayed at tommorows demo. We were informed that those carrying such placards would be asked to exchange them for placards carrying different slogans, by the USI appointed stewards on the demonstration.

As for 'putting people in danger' you hear this trotted out after every semi succesful protest. As I said before on these boards a 'peaceful' protest has never won anyone anything. Im sure the students were angry and shouting but please lets not overexagerate. Ive been at numerous FEE protests now where the media and society hacks act like people almost have died or something. Thats not the case at all. The last thing we would want is for people to get hurt or be placed in danger, and this has not happened at any of the protests.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

As for obscenely wealthy, define obscene wealth? How much does he have? I've no idea.

Well he did get €68,000 severance pay,not to mention the €257,024 annual taoiseach salary over the years,and all those brown envelopes and dig outs. I guess we could check his bank account but he didnt seem to have one for most of his adult life So its all a bit hazy,but sure enough you wont be finding him on the dole queue anytime soon.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bertie Aherne was not on trial here. He should be held to account for his actions - stopping him from taking part in an open debate will never lead to him being held to account.

It wasnt an open debate,It was a society giving him some sort of lifetime acheivment award.
Also, whats there to debate? The goverment have made it perfectly clear that WE need to tighten our belts, and WE need to make cutbacks. Batt O'Keefe has made it clear that schooleavers now will have to pay for fee's. So what exactly are we going to 'debate' with Mr Ahern? We believe all education should be funded by a central progressive taxation system.This means taxing the rich which Bertie,FF and the other capitalist partys will never do.

anonymous_joe

panda100 wrote: »

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory. Their adults,I know many of them very well and have a huge respect for them.

This is the problem with such actions. People will use these labels, and they'll stick. And it'll damage the credibility of the student body.

As for a lack of organisation ,On Saturday there was a national conference held for all FEE members in Dublin. Students attended from UCD, TCD, NUM, NUIG, UL, UCC ,Sligo and many secondary school students from across Dublin. We held a public meeting after the confrence in which we invited USI and other speakers to debate with us. Alongside this our members have held public meetings,leafleted and held regular stalls in all the national universitys since October.

As for being a USI demo,yes it is, but FEE has played a vibrant role in order to ensure that there is a massive mobilisation for tommorow. We want to and try to work alongside USI,but we think students need to do more than trot out for an ineffective protest every now and again,which is all USI can seem to organise. We produced and distributed 20,000 leaflets in colleges across the country to assist in building for tommorows demo for example. The leaflets clearly state how education should be funded and why it should be free from Primary all the way to Third level.
In an intresting twist USI decided last week to ban any placards or banners that contained the phrase "free education" from being displayed at tommorows demo. We were informed that those carrying such placards would be asked to exchange them for placards carrying different slogans, by the USI appointed stewards on the demonstration.

What would you like to see students doing?

As for 'putting people in danger' you hear this trotted out after every semi succesful protest. As I said before on these boards a 'peaceful' protest has never won anyone anything. Im sure the students were angry and shouting but please lets not overexagerate. Ive been at numerous FEE protests now where the media and society hacks act like people almost have died or something. Thats not the case at all. The last thing we would want is for people to get hurt or be placed in danger, and this has not happened at any of the protests.

Gandhi had some success if I remember rightly.

Well he did get €68,000 severance pay,not to mention the €257,024 annual taoiseach salary over the years,and all those brown envelopes and dig outs. I guess we could check his bank account but he didnt seem to have one for most of his adult life So its all a bit hazy,but sure enough you wont be finding him on the dole queue anytime soon.

How much does a doctor make annually?

What about a barrister or solicitor? Or a businessman, etc?

There are obvious doubts about his honesty, but people in this country happily voted him in. You get the politicians you deserve.

Anyway, he got a much lower salary than most CEO's etc would have, so while wealthy and probably corrupt, he's not obscenely wealthy. If he was a corrupt billionaire I'd agree with obscene.

It wasnt an open debate,It was a society giving him some sort of lifetime acheivment award.
Also, whats there to debate? The goverment have made it perfectly clear that WE need to tighten our belts, and WE need to make cutbacks. Batt O'Keefe has made it clear that schooleavers now will have to pay for fee's. So what exactly are we going to 'debate' with Mr Ahern? We believe all education should be funded by a central progressive taxation system.This means taxing the rich which Bertie,FF and the other capitalist partys will never do.

Well if we don't make cutbacks who the fúck will? The country's got less money than it spends. Where's the money going to come from?

And anyway, much as I dislike Bertie, he's not a part of the government, is he? He's not the one behind this.

And before you come up with some bullshít about a progressive tax system, the rich are already taxed more than the poor. They're not going to be taxed anymore because if they were, you'd have a scenario where it would not be worth their while living in Ireland, and they'd all fúck off elsewhere. Wouldn't it be great if all our doctors and so on left for England to avoid tax?

Anyway, much as a progressive tax system would be a fair thing, that's not going to happen until the next elections. And even when it does, how do you know that will generate enough income to pay for all expenditure?

dcukhunter

panda100 wrote: »

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory. Their adults.

Exactly if they want to be treated like adults why dont they act like adults. In my estate they came in around 9:30 or 10 blaring their horns and shouting into loudspeekers waking up kids that were asleep. If they want support this is not the way to do it. From talking to others today most just think to feck with them just let them pay the fee's and be done with it.

pagancornflake

Puddleduck wrote: »

Aw dang, I thought someone had broken his other leg...

He looked visably shaken..maybe that crutch hes on isnt steady as I doubt anyone even got near him before the gardai stepped in

Well I can only hope that something of this nature happens to YOU when you are in your 50's. And may I ask what the basis for this "doubt" is in your second sentence?

pagancornflake

Pub07 wrote: »

What the hell were the Lit and Deb society at in the first place planning to give Bertie an award. The Lit and Deb society of NUIG are a disgrace, theyre the wannabe future politicians in this country trying to get a foot in the door. The neck on the **** wanting to give an award to a corrupt politician who's done so much to damage this country.

Considering the comment you were replying to, all of what you said is irrelevant. Try to stay on topic (the topic would be: How to justify the passive aggressive blockades which disrupt other societies). Considering the fact that they could simply enter the venue they are blocking and argue with the man, I fail to see the practicality of their psuedo-symbolic line "they're blocking us so we'll block them".

Caliden

He started it! He started on about my ma

javaboy

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Its grand to march and stuff but direct action has to be taken.
Look at this thread, who here is now aware of FEE that weren't before?
Thats a success in my books ya twat

Banned for personal abuse.

sceptre

panda100 wrote: »

Not true.
First off ,calling college students 'kids' is unfair and derogatory.

No idea whether the person who originally posted that comment came back on that one but from my perspective, I tend to think of them as kids. Significantly because at UL at a protest before Christmas, I was inside the building that FEE were protesting outside and watched a number of them resort to kicking a glass door because they weren't allowed in. That's not the kind of behaviour that one can reasonably expect from adults acting in an adult manner.

Incidentally, not that it should matter, I'm a currently registered full time undergraduate student. I'm also a correspondent for a local paper on activities in the college I attend (which is UL). I also work what is effectively a full-time job (in addition to the newspaper stuff) while doing that course and have done for its duration. I've also been on two students' union executives, the one that existed the year free fees were first adopted and last year, which if you like you could call the year that free fees began to be abandoned. I have particular views on university charges, fees, to whom they should apply, when, where and why. Those views aren't coloured by my current student status, my past workforce status, past student status or future workforce status. Nevertheless, they exist and I'm mentioning all of this in case anyone thinks my strong views on FEE and their actions are the views of someone who makes up their mind on student fees based on whether or not I have to pay them. From what I've seen of FEE, they're a shower of idiots who'd turn up to protest the opening of an envelope if it gave them some political credence in their heads, which they judge solely by media placement.

Judging from the coverage I've seen so far and examining the youtube videos that have surfaced, that view hasn't changed. FEE have become the biggest PR liability that the anti-fee campaign have picked up. After last night in Galway, there's a possibility that every student protest on this issue is going to be thought of by the normal people on the streets as being organised by a band of ruffians. That's not the kind of particular attention the people involved in this campaign need. There is actually such a thing as bad publicity.

phasers

I love Bertie Ahern

Pub07

pagancornflake wrote: »

Considering the comment you were replying to, all of what you said is irrelevant. Try to stay on topic (the topic would be: How to justify the passive aggressive blockades which disrupt other societies). Considering the fact that they could simply enter the venue they are blocking and argue with the man, I fail to see the practicality of their psuedo-symbolic line "they're blocking us so we'll block them".

I was highlighting the fact that the sole reason Bertie was there was to collect an award which is outragreous considering how corrupt he was and how much of the country's money he squandered, and the people giving the award are doing so just to further there own future careers in politics, no wonder Irish politics is so corrupt. I think the fact that he was there to collect an award and how stupid that concept is, is a point that has been lost in the controversy over the protest.

pagancornflake

Pub07 wrote: »

I was highlighting the fact that the sole reason Bertie was there was to collect an award which is outragreous considering how corrupt he was and how much of the country's money he squandered, and the people giving the award are doing so just to further there own future careers in politics, no wonder Irish politics is so corrupt. I think the fact that he was there to collect an award and how stupid that concept is, is a point that has been lost in the controversy over the protest.

I know what you were trying to highlight. That is a point that would be better expressed to the man himself. I would dearly love to listen to him react to it, but unfortunatley, that is no longer going to be a possibility if there is a minority which is blocking access to speakers with methodical childishness. Hence the focus of the controversy. Any point to be made on the mans career is muted by the fact that we cannot confront him with it.