The Psychological Society of Ireland

The point remains, that the majority of qualified psychologists come from privileged backgrounds. This situation is maintained by the lenghty training requirments, which limits access to a lot of people. People from poorer backgrounds will never be properly represented in the profession unless the training system is changed. Are the regulations there to protect public interest or are they there to protect the status quo? Talk of equality always makes those who are privileged feel uneasy because it challanges elites.

Myksyk wrote: »

This is simply a bogus argument; a bad poorly informed bogus argument. You are assuming that if I'm from a working class background then I will be more effective in dealing with certain mental health problems in certain people. Please point me to the evidence which supports this; whch shows that psychologists from working class backgrounds (there are plenty) are more (or less) effective in any aspect of their jobs than other psychologists. You have a conspiracy theory going based on nothing at all. Not only do some psychologists not come from working class backgrounds there are even those who, perhaps more importantly, don't have depression or anxiety disorders or a history of abuse or schizophrenia. Does this make them less effective in dealing with people with these problems?

I will try to simplify my point. The lenghty training required for psychologists means that the profession is only accessable to an elite few.

The fact that this group dose not see any problem in this could be the result of self serving biases in cognition, which I'm sure we are all guilt of.

kitkat.3b4t wrote: »

I will try to simplify my point. The lenghty training required for psychologists means that the profession is only accessable to an elite few.

The fact that this group dose not see any problem in this could be the result of self serving biases in cognition, which I'm sure we are all guilt of.

are you really suggesting that we need to shorten the required training? Make it a little easier? Cover less subjects? Just to level the playing field and relieve the weight of the chip on your shoulder at the expense of having highly trained and specialised professionals?

Why not the same for doctors too? Would you like if your GP or surgeon or consultant had just done a basic four year degree? I know I wouldn't!!

The Black Oil wrote: »

Right, because their clients are never suicidal or push the self-destruct button...

Of course psychologists work with people who are suicidal. However there is no evidence to suggest that years of training has a benefical effect in these cases, infact research shows that talking with a close friend, or some body who has genuine concern about them is the most effective form of intervention.

kitkat.3b4t wrote: »

Of course psychologists work with people who are suicidal. However there is no evidence to suggest that years of training has a benefical effect in these cases, infact research shows that talking with a close friend, or some body who has genuine concern about them is the most effective form of intervention.

Having read over this thread I dont know where to start, maybe the beginning would be good. With regard to the German lady's application, an undergraduate degree in Psychology does not qualify you to work as a Clinical Psychologist in Ireland, applying to get membership of BPS wont make any difference to the application here as her qualifications and experience will be judged as stand alone. With the new Health Care Professionals Council the title of Clinicial Psychologist will finally be protected. Until now anyone doing a 2 day weekend course in Psychology could set them up as a Psychologist and do untold harm to the general public. This is why we have regulations, to protect the public from people not qualified to work in a certain area.

As for the "argument" that entry into Clinical Psychology is restricted to the middle classes or elites, I can personally debunk that one, I'm from a working class background and it made absolutely no difference to me getting into this career. It also makes no difference in my work with people from all demographics or socio-economic statuses. I can assure you that the middle and upper classes have just as much if not more mental health difficulties than those from lower socio-economic classes.

As for the above "claim" that years of training has no benefit in working with people who are suicidal. By making that assertion it is patently clear that you have never sat opposite a child, an adolescent or adult who has seriously harmed themselves, who has specific plans on how they will end their lives. Does anyone really think that we should allow someone with a 4 year degree, theoretically coming out of college at 21 to work with people who require this amount of support. I deal with 5-6 actively suicidal teenagers a week, we get 3-4 new cases of teenagers thinking about ending their lives per week, try carrying that about on your mind when you go home from work at night, will this 13 year old kid be alive for their appointment next week? We can do that because of the training and experience we have recieved.

Depends on alot of things including the kinds of populations that you're working with, with us its quite common, unfortunately common I suppose.

Valmont wrote: »

So would you encounter more of these cases working with the HSE or in private practice? On that point, what would be the primary differences for a clinical psychologist working privately? Besides the money of course! I'm quite curious about the sort of work clinical psychologists do as all the career presentations and whatnot I've been to, tend to be all overly general.

Most definitely would come across more working publically. In my opinion psychologists working in private practice would find it much more difficult to work with these kinds of clients. I work a few hours privately too and I would try to steer clear of these cases in that realm. The primary reason being that there is a degree of security in working these kinds of cases as one part of a multi-disciplinary team so you have access to supervision and in alot of cases joint responsibility, which I believe is a huge advantage to you (and the client). The ratio of psychologists working exclusively privately to those working for organisations would be hugely stacked towards those working for organisations. I've often been asked would I not work exclusively privately and for me its a non runner for a number of reasons. 1 - security of knowing you have a guaranteed income at the end of the month, 2, as mentioned previously working as part of a team means you dont carry a caseload exclusively on your own shoulders, and 3 the social aspect and support of being part of a team cant be underestimated.

I would think that part of the reason that the career talks that you have heard have been quite general is because within Psychology, and even within Clinical Psychology there is a massive variety of roles available to you, which is difficult to capture in one talk. A clinical psychologist working in an adult, or intellectual disability, or forensic, or child & adolescent area would have quite different experiences in terms of how their service works, the case load they carry, who else is on their team etc.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

In actual fact, they don't even need to do a weekend course.........or any other kind of course, to call themselves a Psychologist. :eek:

How very true, makes it an even scarier thought...... the sooner the better statutory registration comes in....

ScaryMary wrote: »

As a psychology graduate, i think it would be great if they could at least increase the number of postgrad course places. i know of so many psychology graduates who have firsts (and work experience) but can't get into the courses they want because of the limited number of places.

Currently there are only (per year in the whole ROI):

Clinical Psychology:

NUIG (3 year docrtoral prog) - 12places
UCD (3year doctoral prog) - 12places
TCD (3 years) - 6-12 places
UL (3 years) -12 places

Education Psychology:

UCD (2 years) - 12 places

(and you need teaching experience and advised to have a teaching qualification) However Psychology is not recognised as a teachable subject by the council of teachers so you cannot get a H.Dip of education based on your psych degree.

To be viewed as qualified psychologist you need four years postgrad work, two of which can be due to doing a postgrad course.

slightly off topic, but if i'm recognised graduate member of PSI, can I apply to BPS as a member and APA?

There are unfortunately even less places that you've quoted as UCD only have an intake 2 out of 3 years. There are a number of reasons why there are few places. On an aside the numbers have actually increased since I intially applied. The places on the courses are all funded by HSE or voluntary agencies or the prison service usually. As the media have reminded us on so many occasions there is very little funding available in the country. Without funding the trainees would have to fund the course themselves, 10-15k per year, which few people would be available to afford. The number of trainees is also dependent on the number of supervisors qualified and able to supervise the trainees from the courses. Many many places of work barely have enough physical rooms or desks for the full time clinicians so taking on a trainee is sometimes not possible.

To be a qualified clinical psychologist the most normal qualifications/experience needed is:

Undergraduate in Psychology
Masters/PHd (Research) in Psychology
Up to 2 years relevant clinical experience with various populations
3 years clinical training on one of the above mentioned courses.

Its an ardous route but its possible if you're dedicated enough, the main thing is not to give up and to plan from the very beginning to expect it to take 10-12 years to qualify