Guinness and Ireland

faceman · 29-01-2009 02:23PM #1

It never ceases to amaze me when im speaking to people abroad who have never been to Ireland yet they are able to associate Ireland and Guinness together. In fact I got a flyer a few months ago for an international conference being planned for November this year that even had written on it about guests being able to sample the local Guinness.

As a paddy however, I dont really consider Guinnes being Irish anymore. in fact, Guinness and its brand marketing annoy me in recent years as I see Guinness, well Diageo to be exact, as using and abusing the irishness to sell their Guinness. Afterall its not "our" (as in Irish) Guinness no more, its Diageo's. There was a time when I was growing up that regardless of whether you were a Guinness drinker or not, there was a sense of pride in Guinness and its Irishness.

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK. Guinness had considered at one stage closing James Gate but held off because of the brand association with the location.

Am i alone with this view?

Now that Guinness are running their 250 years ad campaign showing ads from previous decades, I cant help but feel that they are showing ads for a different stout and different company altogether.

What are your views? Do you care as a Guinness drinker? Do you feel there really a segment of the Guinness organisation that cares for the domestic market?

Davidius · 29-01-2009 02:30PM

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Let's ban all advertisement of alcoholic drinks!

judas101 · 29-01-2009 02:31PM

faceman wrote: »

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK.

are you sure about that?

*waits for the lads from booze forum*

ejmaztec · 29-01-2009 02:32PM

Davidius wrote: »

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Let's ban all advertisement of alcoholic drinks!

I'll drink to that.

petes · 29-01-2009 02:34PM

faceman wrote: »

What are your views? Do you care as a Guinness drinker? Do you feel there really a segment of the Guinness organisation that cares for the domestic market?

Not really. As long as I can still continue to get a good pint of Guinness then it doesn't really matter to me.

If it starts to affect that then I'll care.

faceman · 29-01-2009 02:45PM

Davidius wrote: »

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Let's ban all advertisement of alcoholic drinks!

Thats a debate for a different thread. Its not what Im talking about here.

brianthebard · 29-01-2009 02:51PM

judas101 wrote: »

are you sure about that?

*waits for the lads from booze forum*

Canada brews a lot of Guinness.

Also, why would you take pride in a brand?

Sherifu · 29-01-2009 02:59PM

I don't really care about Diageo being behind it. I'll still drink it. I tend to ignore most advertising.

faceman wrote: »

Do you care as a Guinness drinker?

No.

faceman wrote: »

Do you feel there really a segment of the Guinness organisation that cares for the domestic market?

I would say there is, we drink enough of the stuff

Nodin · 29-01-2009 03:03PM

Davidius wrote: »

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Well the yanks took terrorism offof us and nailed it to the muslims. We're stuck with it now till something else comes up.

Would you rather just be associated with Bono?

Jesus Wept · 29-01-2009 03:11PM

Guinness is muck.

petes · 29-01-2009 03:16PM

The-Rigger wrote: »

Guinness is muck.

Stone him!!

humanji · 29-01-2009 03:18PM

Not sure how true it is, but I heard that Arthur Guinness was a Royalist and was against a United Ireland. If true, then it's not a very good drink to associate with Ireland. And if it isn't true, I still won't drink it because it tastes like shìt. Lambrini is the way to go!

rossie1977 · 29-01-2009 03:47PM

who cares who owns it, it will still always be associated with ireland. lyons tea is owned by unilever but they advertise themselves as being as irish as can be

stovelid · 29-01-2009 03:50PM

My perennial, overriding concerns re: Guinness revolves around being able to purchase it, have it poured properly, and drinking it in bulk.

javaboy · 29-01-2009 03:54PM

stovelid wrote: »

My perennial, overriding concerns re: Guinness revolves around being able to purchase it, have it poured properly, and drinking it in bulk.

You just can't get good head these days.

29-01-2009 03:58PM

faceman wrote: »

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK. Guinness had considered at one stage closing James Gate but held off because of the brand association with the location.

Well all Guinness for the UK market is now brewed in Dublin.

I drink Guinness and i'm proud of it and I also love the way its associated with Ireland and it always should be.

ScumLord · 29-01-2009 04:01PM

I think deagio are taking advantage. A popular uprising would solve all these issues. We could simply take back the brand.

29-01-2009 04:18PM

This post has been deleted.

cabrwab · 29-01-2009 04:27PM

Well give/invent something new to be considered irish im proud of guinness, even though there biggest brewery is in nigeria. They still brew in james gate.

Biggins · 29-01-2009 04:59PM

Lets be honest. Its all about marketing.
To Diageo, the use and existence of St James at this stage is for PR representation and standing out with its "Irishness" in a international market that is a wash in alcoholic drinks.

As long as the "Irish" edge exists, it help to differ the drink from others more so, gains a instant section of drinkers that will always like a bit of "Irish" in their hands be they at home or on a mountain side in Nepal.

St James if they only brew one pint a month, is worth more to to Diageo beyond the actual running costs if the property itself.

Guinness is no longer Irish anyway. Someone here will hopefully point us in the right direction but I believe that Guinness is now only subsidiary, one of many, belonging to a multinational company that is international in nature and far from being "Irish".

humanji · 29-01-2009 05:10PM

Biggins wrote: »

Lets be honest. Its all about marketing.
To Diageo, the use and existence of St James at this stage is for PR representation and standing out with its "Irishness" in a international market that is a wash in alcoholic drinks.

As long as the "Irish" edge exists, it help to differ the drink from others more so, gains a instant section of drinkers that will always like a bit of "Irish" in their hands be they at home or on a mountain side in Nepal.

St James if they only brew one pint a month, is worth more to to Diageo beyond the actual running costs if the property itself.

Guinness is no longer Irish anyway. Someone here will hopefully point us in the right direction but I believe that Guinness is now only subsidiary, one of many, belonging to a multinational company that is international in nature and far from being "Irish".

So you're saying it's the NWO who are using Guinness to control our minds? Suddenly it all falls into place...

r3nu4l · 29-01-2009 05:21PM

brianthebard wrote: »

Canada brews a lot of Guinness.

Jacqueline Few Schoolroom wrote: »

Well all Guinness for the UK market is now brewed in Dublin.

Very true!

Also, Guinness destined for the Caribbean is brewed on the island of St Vincent in the Caribbean and it tasted the same to me as the Guinness brewed in Dublin.

Personally I see Guinness as a stout to drink when there is nothing more interesting available. O'Haras stout from the Carlow brewing company is worth a try or some of the UK stouts such as Parker's Porter (a weaker version of stout) or Youngs Double Chocolate Stout are nice but there are even more interesting ones out there.

Anytime I get a Guinness in England the barman pours a shamrock shape into the head...that's when you realise just how much Diageo value the 'Irishness' of the pint o' plain.

Believe it or not many people I've spoken to have said that they would love to visit Ireland and be able to say they had a pint in the 'home of Guinness'. From that perspective alone, it's good for the tourist industry. The fact that Guinness is a mediocre but very drinkable stout is probably not relevant to this thread

kraggy · 29-01-2009 05:22PM

stovelid wrote: »

My perennial, overriding concerns re: Guinness revolves around being able to purchase it, have it poured properly, and drinking it in bulk.

javaboy wrote: »

You just can't get good head these days.

I know sher. It's Murphy's Law.

faceman · 29-01-2009 05:26PM

r3nu4l wrote: »

Personally I see Guinness as a stout to drink when there is nothing more interesting available. O'Haras stout from the Carlow brewing company is worth a try or some of the UK stouts such as Parker's Porter (a weaker version of stout) or Youngs Double Chocolate Stout are nice but there are even more interesting ones out there.

I heard an interview with James May about beer recently and he commented on stout saying that when he was in Ireland there were some even better stout gems being brewed that the international community never hears about - nor do many irish people! He didnt mention anything in particular but it sounded like he was thinking of a the "Plain" stout you can get in the porterhouse pubs in Dublin

kevmy · 29-01-2009 05:34PM

Diageo aren't Irish but Guinness is.

It's like saying Manchester Utd are America because they are owned by Yanks.

All of the Guinness for the Irish and UK market is brewed in St. James Gate, it was invented and first brewed in Ireland by an Irishman (whether or not he was a Unionist or not is beside the point - you can be both) and is the main stout which is sold in Ireland (in fact it is the main beer sold in Ireland).

So regardless of who ultimately owns Guinness it is Irish.

As regards your point on advertising - did you know that the famous 'Guinness is good for you' ads were devised and run mainly in the UK back in the day when Guinness was owned by Guinness not Diageo. The UK and other exports markets were always important to Guinness

Biggins · 29-01-2009 05:40PM

Add to that:

Diageo is the holding company for some of the leading international alcoholic beverage brands including, to give a few of the best known brands:

* Beer: Guinness, Smithwick's, Red Stripe, Harp Lager, Kilkenny
* Scotch whisky: Johnnie Walker, Justerini & Brooks (J&B), Bell's, Black & White, Vat 69, Oban, Talisker, Lagavulin, Glen Ord, Glenkinchie, Dalwhinnie, Cragganmore
* Baijiu: Shui Jing Fang
* Vodka: Smirnoff (Smirnov in Russia), Cîroc, Silent Sam, Popov, Ketel One
* Gin: Gordon's, Tanqueray, Gilbey's, Booth's
* Rum: Captain Morgan, Bundaberg, Pampero, Myers's
* Bourbon: Bulleit
* Canadian whisky: Crown Royal, Seagram's
* Irish whiskey: Bushmills
* Tennessee whiskey: George Dickel
* Tequila: Don Julio, José Cuervo
* Schnapps: Black Haus, Goldschlager, Rumple Minze
* Mixed drinks: Archers, Pimm's
* Liqueur: Baileys, Sheridans, Yukon Jack, Godiva's
* Wines: Sterling Vineyards, Piat d'Or, Barton & Guestier, Beaulieu Vineyard, Blossom Hill, Canoe Ridge Vineyard, Acacia, Chalone, Provenance, and Rosenblum.

Diageo operates the Scotch whisky distilleries of Auchroisk, Benrinnes, Blair Athol (situated at Pitlochry), Caol Ila, Cardhu, Knockando, Glen Elgin, Clynelish, Cragganmore, Dalwhinnie, Glenkinchie, Glen Ord, Lagavulin, Oban, Royal Lochnagar, Talisker,Teaninich, Mannochmore, Mortlach and Glenlossie, which are sold not only under their own name but used to make the various blended scotch whiskies sold by the company. The company are now building a new distillery at their current maltings at Roseisle, hoping to open in Spring 2009. This will be one of the largest distilleries in Scotland.

Riddle101 · 29-01-2009 05:50PM

Why dose Ireland have to be associated with Guinness, why can't it be associated with Bulmers instead. I for one think we should switch our national Alocholic drink to Bulmers, Who's with me:D

GhostInTheRuins · 29-01-2009 05:51PM

I'm a Guinness drinker but there's no way I'd say I'm 'proud' of it.

On a related note, anyone been to the guinness storehouse? It's the biggest rippoff going, all you're paying for is basically a big guinness advert and a €15 pint :mad:

Earthhorse · 29-01-2009 05:52PM

On a related matter, it may interest readers to know that the Guinness Book of Records is no longer owned by Guinness.

PrivateEye · 29-01-2009 05:53PM

Guinness sacked a handful of workers who organised during the 1913 Lockout. I'm not entirely sure about the claim Arthur was a royalist, but I know he was opposed to the uprising in '98.

Saying that, the company was very good to my family through decades upon decades of employment there. In fact, I know that one of the 'casualties' at St. James' Gate over the years was a distant relative of my mothers. I remember even as a young lad my grandad coming home with a bottle from work every now and then, and thats maybe 12 years ago! And the medical care etc....

As for the drink itself, from working in a pub- its Guinness all night, nothing sells close to the stuff. Its only when you can reverse the sales patterns you can claim the drink isn't 'Irelands choice' anymore.

My Goodness, I love the stuff.

r3nu4l · 29-01-2009 05:54PM

faceman wrote: »

I heard an interview with James May about beer recently and he commented on stout saying that when he was in Ireland there were some even better stout gems being brewed that the international community never hears about - nor do many irish people! He didnt mention anything in particular but it sounded like he was thinking of a the "Plain" stout you can get in the porterhouse pubs in Dublin

Yup this week on Oz and James Drink to Britain (inappropriate title!) they visited Ireland and spent time visiting the Bull and Castle in Dublin and judging some home brews produced by Irish Craft Brewers. They also spoke with the O'Haras and Liam Hanlon from Carlow Brewing Company. The show was all too brief but did knock Guinness a bit and spend some time on Craft Brews

EDIT: Incidentally, in my earlier post I said Guinness will do when a better stout isn't available but I now make the effort when I'm in Ireland to seek out better beers than the usual bland suspects (bud, heine, carlsberg, guinness...) that you get in most Irish pubs. I'm voting with my feet, if more of us did it the pubs would give us a better choice of beers!

Guinness and Ireland

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