Guinness and Ireland

faceman

It never ceases to amaze me when im speaking to people abroad who have never been to Ireland yet they are able to associate Ireland and Guinness together. In fact I got a flyer a few months ago for an international conference being planned for November this year that even had written on it about guests being able to sample the local Guinness.

As a paddy however, I dont really consider Guinnes being Irish anymore. in fact, Guinness and its brand marketing annoy me in recent years as I see Guinness, well Diageo to be exact, as using and abusing the irishness to sell their Guinness. Afterall its not "our" (as in Irish) Guinness no more, its Diageo's. There was a time when I was growing up that regardless of whether you were a Guinness drinker or not, there was a sense of pride in Guinness and its Irishness.

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK. Guinness had considered at one stage closing James Gate but held off because of the brand association with the location.

Am i alone with this view?

Now that Guinness are running their 250 years ad campaign showing ads from previous decades, I cant help but feel that they are showing ads for a different stout and different company altogether.

What are your views? Do you care as a Guinness drinker? Do you feel there really a segment of the Guinness organisation that cares for the domestic market?

Davidius

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Let's ban all advertisement of alcoholic drinks!

judas101

faceman wrote: »

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK.

are you sure about that?

*waits for the lads from booze forum*

ejmaztec

Davidius wrote: »

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Let's ban all advertisement of alcoholic drinks!

I'll drink to that.

petes

faceman wrote: »

What are your views? Do you care as a Guinness drinker? Do you feel there really a segment of the Guinness organisation that cares for the domestic market?

Not really. As long as I can still continue to get a good pint of Guinness then it doesn't really matter to me.

If it starts to affect that then I'll care.

faceman

Davidius wrote: »

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Let's ban all advertisement of alcoholic drinks!

Thats a debate for a different thread. Its not what Im talking about here.

brianthebard

judas101 wrote: »

are you sure about that?

*waits for the lads from booze forum*

Canada brews a lot of Guinness.

Also, why would you take pride in a brand?

Sherifu

I don't really care about Diageo being behind it. I'll still drink it. I tend to ignore most advertising.

faceman wrote: »

Do you care as a Guinness drinker?

No.

faceman wrote: »

Do you feel there really a segment of the Guinness organisation that cares for the domestic market?

I would say there is, we drink enough of the stuff

Nodin

Davidius wrote: »

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Well the yanks took terrorism offof us and nailed it to the muslims. We're stuck with it now till something else comes up.

Would you rather just be associated with Bono?

Jesus Wept

Guinness is muck.

petes

The-Rigger wrote: »

Guinness is muck.

Stone him!!

humanji

Not sure how true it is, but I heard that Arthur Guinness was a Royalist and was against a United Ireland. If true, then it's not a very good drink to associate with Ireland. And if it isn't true, I still won't drink it because it tastes like shìt. Lambrini is the way to go!

rossie1977

who cares who owns it, it will still always be associated with ireland. lyons tea is owned by unilever but they advertise themselves as being as irish as can be

stovelid

My perennial, overriding concerns re: Guinness revolves around being able to purchase it, have it poured properly, and drinking it in bulk.

javaboy

stovelid wrote: »

My perennial, overriding concerns re: Guinness revolves around being able to purchase it, have it poured properly, and drinking it in bulk.

You just can't get good head these days.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK. Guinness had considered at one stage closing James Gate but held off because of the brand association with the location.

Well all Guinness for the UK market is now brewed in Dublin.

I drink Guinness and i'm proud of it and I also love the way its associated with Ireland and it always should be.

ScumLord

I think deagio are taking advantage. A popular uprising would solve all these issues. We could simply take back the brand.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

cabrwab

Well give/invent something new to be considered irish im proud of guinness, even though there biggest brewery is in nigeria. They still brew in james gate.

Biggins

Lets be honest. Its all about marketing.
To Diageo, the use and existence of St James at this stage is for PR representation and standing out with its "Irishness" in a international market that is a wash in alcoholic drinks.

As long as the "Irish" edge exists, it help to differ the drink from others more so, gains a instant section of drinkers that will always like a bit of "Irish" in their hands be they at home or on a mountain side in Nepal.

St James if they only brew one pint a month, is worth more to to Diageo beyond the actual running costs if the property itself.

Guinness is no longer Irish anyway. Someone here will hopefully point us in the right direction but I believe that Guinness is now only subsidiary, one of many, belonging to a multinational company that is international in nature and far from being "Irish".

humanji

Biggins wrote: »

Lets be honest. Its all about marketing.
To Diageo, the use and existence of St James at this stage is for PR representation and standing out with its "Irishness" in a international market that is a wash in alcoholic drinks.

As long as the "Irish" edge exists, it help to differ the drink from others more so, gains a instant section of drinkers that will always like a bit of "Irish" in their hands be they at home or on a mountain side in Nepal.

St James if they only brew one pint a month, is worth more to to Diageo beyond the actual running costs if the property itself.

Guinness is no longer Irish anyway. Someone here will hopefully point us in the right direction but I believe that Guinness is now only subsidiary, one of many, belonging to a multinational company that is international in nature and far from being "Irish".

So you're saying it's the NWO who are using Guinness to control our minds? Suddenly it all falls into place...

r3nu4l

brianthebard wrote: »

Canada brews a lot of Guinness.

Jacqueline Few Schoolroom wrote: »

Well all Guinness for the UK market is now brewed in Dublin.

Very true!

Also, Guinness destined for the Caribbean is brewed on the island of St Vincent in the Caribbean and it tasted the same to me as the Guinness brewed in Dublin.

Personally I see Guinness as a stout to drink when there is nothing more interesting available. O'Haras stout from the Carlow brewing company is worth a try or some of the UK stouts such as Parker's Porter (a weaker version of stout) or Youngs Double Chocolate Stout are nice but there are even more interesting ones out there.

Anytime I get a Guinness in England the barman pours a shamrock shape into the head...that's when you realise just how much Diageo value the 'Irishness' of the pint o' plain.

Believe it or not many people I've spoken to have said that they would love to visit Ireland and be able to say they had a pint in the 'home of Guinness'. From that perspective alone, it's good for the tourist industry. The fact that Guinness is a mediocre but very drinkable stout is probably not relevant to this thread

kraggy

stovelid wrote: »

My perennial, overriding concerns re: Guinness revolves around being able to purchase it, have it poured properly, and drinking it in bulk.

javaboy wrote: »

You just can't get good head these days.

I know sher. It's Murphy's Law.

faceman

r3nu4l wrote: »

Personally I see Guinness as a stout to drink when there is nothing more interesting available. O'Haras stout from the Carlow brewing company is worth a try or some of the UK stouts such as Parker's Porter (a weaker version of stout) or Youngs Double Chocolate Stout are nice but there are even more interesting ones out there.

I heard an interview with James May about beer recently and he commented on stout saying that when he was in Ireland there were some even better stout gems being brewed that the international community never hears about - nor do many irish people! He didnt mention anything in particular but it sounded like he was thinking of a the "Plain" stout you can get in the porterhouse pubs in Dublin

kevmy

Diageo aren't Irish but Guinness is.

It's like saying Manchester Utd are America because they are owned by Yanks.

All of the Guinness for the Irish and UK market is brewed in St. James Gate, it was invented and first brewed in Ireland by an Irishman (whether or not he was a Unionist or not is beside the point - you can be both) and is the main stout which is sold in Ireland (in fact it is the main beer sold in Ireland).

So regardless of who ultimately owns Guinness it is Irish.

As regards your point on advertising - did you know that the famous 'Guinness is good for you' ads were devised and run mainly in the UK back in the day when Guinness was owned by Guinness not Diageo. The UK and other exports markets were always important to Guinness

Biggins

Add to that:

Diageo is the holding company for some of the leading international alcoholic beverage brands including, to give a few of the best known brands:

* Beer: Guinness, Smithwick's, Red Stripe, Harp Lager, Kilkenny
* Scotch whisky: Johnnie Walker, Justerini & Brooks (J&B), Bell's, Black & White, Vat 69, Oban, Talisker, Lagavulin, Glen Ord, Glenkinchie, Dalwhinnie, Cragganmore
* Baijiu: Shui Jing Fang
* Vodka: Smirnoff (Smirnov in Russia), Cîroc, Silent Sam, Popov, Ketel One
* Gin: Gordon's, Tanqueray, Gilbey's, Booth's
* Rum: Captain Morgan, Bundaberg, Pampero, Myers's
* Bourbon: Bulleit
* Canadian whisky: Crown Royal, Seagram's
* Irish whiskey: Bushmills
* Tennessee whiskey: George Dickel
* Tequila: Don Julio, José Cuervo
* Schnapps: Black Haus, Goldschlager, Rumple Minze
* Mixed drinks: Archers, Pimm's
* Liqueur: Baileys, Sheridans, Yukon Jack, Godiva's
* Wines: Sterling Vineyards, Piat d'Or, Barton & Guestier, Beaulieu Vineyard, Blossom Hill, Canoe Ridge Vineyard, Acacia, Chalone, Provenance, and Rosenblum.

Diageo operates the Scotch whisky distilleries of Auchroisk, Benrinnes, Blair Athol (situated at Pitlochry), Caol Ila, Cardhu, Knockando, Glen Elgin, Clynelish, Cragganmore, Dalwhinnie, Glenkinchie, Glen Ord, Lagavulin, Oban, Royal Lochnagar, Talisker,Teaninich, Mannochmore, Mortlach and Glenlossie, which are sold not only under their own name but used to make the various blended scotch whiskies sold by the company. The company are now building a new distillery at their current maltings at Roseisle, hoping to open in Spring 2009. This will be one of the largest distilleries in Scotland.

Riddle101

Why dose Ireland have to be associated with Guinness, why can't it be associated with Bulmers instead. I for one think we should switch our national Alocholic drink to Bulmers, Who's with me:D

GhostInTheRuins

I'm a Guinness drinker but there's no way I'd say I'm 'proud' of it.

On a related note, anyone been to the guinness storehouse? It's the biggest rippoff going, all you're paying for is basically a big guinness advert and a €15 pint :mad:

Earthhorse

On a related matter, it may interest readers to know that the Guinness Book of Records is no longer owned by Guinness.

PrivateEye

Guinness sacked a handful of workers who organised during the 1913 Lockout. I'm not entirely sure about the claim Arthur was a royalist, but I know he was opposed to the uprising in '98.

Saying that, the company was very good to my family through decades upon decades of employment there. In fact, I know that one of the 'casualties' at St. James' Gate over the years was a distant relative of my mothers. I remember even as a young lad my grandad coming home with a bottle from work every now and then, and thats maybe 12 years ago! And the medical care etc....

As for the drink itself, from working in a pub- its Guinness all night, nothing sells close to the stuff. Its only when you can reverse the sales patterns you can claim the drink isn't 'Irelands choice' anymore.

My Goodness, I love the stuff.

r3nu4l

faceman wrote: »

I heard an interview with James May about beer recently and he commented on stout saying that when he was in Ireland there were some even better stout gems being brewed that the international community never hears about - nor do many irish people! He didnt mention anything in particular but it sounded like he was thinking of a the "Plain" stout you can get in the porterhouse pubs in Dublin

Yup this week on Oz and James Drink to Britain (inappropriate title!) they visited Ireland and spent time visiting the Bull and Castle in Dublin and judging some home brews produced by Irish Craft Brewers. They also spoke with the O'Haras and Liam Hanlon from Carlow Brewing Company. The show was all too brief but did knock Guinness a bit and spend some time on Craft Brews

EDIT: Incidentally, in my earlier post I said Guinness will do when a better stout isn't available but I now make the effort when I'm in Ireland to seek out better beers than the usual bland suspects (bud, heine, carlsberg, guinness...) that you get in most Irish pubs. I'm voting with my feet, if more of us did it the pubs would give us a better choice of beers!

javaboy

Earthhorse wrote: »

On a related matter, it may interest readers to know that the Guinness Book of Records is no longer owned by Guinness.

And Ripley's Believe it or not is now owned by the Jim Pattison Group. It's all been a pack of lies!

ShooterSF

javaboy wrote: »

You just can't get good head these days.

Wrong topic. Sex and sexuality is that-a-way.

robinph

faceman wrote: »

I heard an interview with James May about beer recently and he commented on stout saying that when he was in Ireland there were some even better stout gems being brewed that the international community never hears about - nor do many irish people! He didnt mention anything in particular but it sounded like he was thinking of a the "Plain" stout you can get in the porterhouse pubs in Dublin

"Oz and James drink to Britain" was in Ireland this week and trying their best not to mention the G word. But they did manage to find some decent other Irish beers eventually in the Bull & Castle. Just the Irish seem to be very against anything new so just tend to stick to the same usual rubbish beers all the time, although that is starting to change now with the likes of the Bull & Castle and more Porterhouses opening up which server more than just the Bud/ Guinness/ Carlsberg crap that you get everywhere else.

Ireland is only the third or fourth biggest market for Guinness though after the UK, Nigeria and somewhere else that I've now forgotten. But there is none brewed in the UK anymore.

Riddle101

Riddle101 wrote: »

Why dose Ireland have to be associated with Guinness, why can't it be associated with Bulmers instead. I for one think we should switch our national Alocholic drink to Bulmers, Who's with me:D

Because Bulmers is pure S***e that most people stop drinking when they turn 17.

PrivateEye

What do people think of the stout in the Porterhouse by the way?

Wasn't too keen. Not bad like, but not the Gs. I'd enjoy the odd pint of Beamish, so I'm not stuck to the one.

robinph

PrivateEye wrote: »

What do people think of the stout in the Porterhouse by the way?

Wasn't too keen. Not bad like, but not the Gs. I'd enjoy the odd pint of Beamish, so I'm not stuck to the one.

I believe that one is a porter and not a stout. Porter was an English drink which Guinness then made some changes to and created the stout, or something along those lines.

r3nu4l

robinph wrote: »

I believe that one is a porter and not a stout. Porter was an English drink which Guinness then made some changes to and created the stout, or something along those lines.

Here's the wiki on porter, I'm sure that oblivious or BeerNut or other regulars from Beers, Wines and Spirits could give more info.

Earthhorse

javaboy wrote: »

And Ripley's Believe it or not is now owned by the Jim Pattison Group. It's all been a pack of lies!

I don't know that I believe that.

sunnyjim

faceman wrote:

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK. Guinness had considered at one stage closing James Gate but held off because of the brand association with the location.

Errr, no. Guinness for Ireland is brewed in Dublin.

Afterall its not "our" (as in Irish) Guinness no more, its Diageo's. There was a time when I was growing up that regardless of whether you were a Guinness drinker or not, there was a sense of pride in Guinness and its Irishness.

Ignore the global conglomerate who bought it out.

It's still fairly Irish. All the research done on the brand, the drink, future drinks and such is still done in the same lab in Dublin that's been running for 100 years. Diageo even expanded it.

It's Irish in that it started here. Even when it's brewed elsewhere it is lab analysts and chemists here who test it, lay down the technologies and go over to pass on 250 years of experience in setting up the brewing. It'll never leave dublin, there's too much experience in them acres.

R3nu4l wrote:

Also, Guinness destined for the Caribbean is brewed on the island of St Vincent in the Caribbean and it tasted the same to me as the Guinness brewed in Dublin.

There's actually 53 (possibly more) Guinness breweries around the world. There's a few in the caribbean itself,; St Kitts, St Lucia, St Vincent, Jamacia. I'm missing 1 or 2. A lot of work goes in to making sure that the black stuff produced is all to standard. Both the modern analytical way and through the Sensory Analysis panel (bunch of oul lads who are paid to drink it)

RandolphEsq

Can't wait for my few Guinness tonight in the comfortable surroundings of an Irish pub*

*LVA authorised comment

Davidius

faceman wrote: »

Thats a debate for a different thread. Its not what Im talking about here.

Yes it is. It's exactly what you're talking about. Just think about it! See? What do you mean "no"? So you're calling me a liar? I refuse to speak to you further as you clearly don't have enough respect for anybody to make any conversation worthwhile! :mad:

Riddle101

Jacqueline Few Schoolroom wrote: »

Because Bulmers is pure S***e that most people stop drinking when they turn 17.

A Guinness drinker telling me Bulmers is sh**te? that's rich. Guinness taste like sick and earwhacks mixed together. Bulmers is heaven covered in sex

And where did you ever get the notion that people stop drinking it when they turn 17, people are more likely to start drinking Bulmer when they turn 17

madmik

Riddle101 wrote: »

A Guinness drinker telling me Bulmers is sh**te? that's rich. Guinness taste like sick and earwhacks mixed together. Bulmers is heaven covered in sex

And where did you ever get the notion that people stop drinking it when they turn 17, people are more likely to start drinking Bulmer when they turn 17

honestly bulmers is pi$$

if u wont take his word for it take mine

guinness isnt a sihtload better

if u want a good beer look to belgium or germany

clicks

faceman wrote: »

Most Guinness exports are actually brewed in the UK.

I'm sure someone else has already said this but I doubt that given they shut down UK production and export it to there from Dublin.

lostexpectation

bord failte and the st patricks organisation needs to activley reduce alcohol promos if we are to be said to be serious about reducing bad drinking.

3greenrizla's

Stout (internationally known as Guinness), Whiskey, and Poteen, are alcoholic drinks associated with Ireland.

no more than...

madmik wrote: »

if u want a good beer look to belgium or germany

...infact I am looking forward to going to Germany in a few weeks and will enjoy many jugs of local German beer.

Riddle101 wrote: »

Why dose Ireland have to be associated with Guinness, why can't it be associated with Bulmers instead. I for one think we should switch our national Alocholic drink to Bulmers, Who's with me:D

I enjoy Bulmers (probably because I did not start drinking it until I was 20 or so, and I had poisoned myself with Budweiser until then)
but i would not really call Cider an Irish drink, it's internationally known as Magners, and it is not as internationally available as Guinness.

- a little story- last year when I was in Germany I was sitting at the Bar in the local Irish pub watching them serve pitchers of Guinness, all the head was lost when the Guinness was poured into glasses but the Germans were loving it.

faceman

sunnyjim wrote: »

Errr, no. Guinness for Ireland is brewed in Dublin.

I didnt suggest otherwise. I said Guinness exports by which i mean Guinness intended for foreign shores.

I wasnt aware the UK brewery had been closed.

Davidius wrote: »

Yes it is. It's exactly what you're talking about. Just think about it! See? What do you mean "no"? So you're calling me a liar? I refuse to speak to you further as you clearly don't have enough respect for anybody to make any conversation worthwhile! :mad:

Ive thanked your post because its the most mental one Ive read today

You are missing my point. My point is concerning a now global brand/company that is exploiting its origins for its own gain, rather than embracing/respected it. Im not debating the ethics of alcohol association with the Irish culture. I am discussing corporate policy of an irish grown organisation and its perception amongst the consumer both domestically and internationally.

If there is another irish company that you feel we can discuss instead, please feel free to suggest it.

sunnyjim

I didnt suggest otherwise. I said Guinness exports by which i mean Guinness intended for foreign shores.

I wasnt aware the UK brewery had been closed.

Very little is exported, as there are 54 breweries around the world making the stuff for local markets.

Davidius

faceman wrote: »

serious reply

Um....:pac:

Robclarke70

Davidius wrote: »

I dream of a world where being Irish isn't associated with alcoholism.

Let's ban all advertisement of alcoholic drinks!

are you a non drinker then?