garda methods- judge carney

Terry · 29-01-2009 01:47PM

dats_right wrote: »

One of my pet hates is poor journalism! The reporting of what the Judge said by the Herald is more what the journo wanted him to say and thought would sell more copies than what Carney actually said or meant. For an accurate report see http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0128/1232923370128.html

Essentially, it is quite clear that rather than harping back to the old days Carney was in fact actually getting the point accross that nowadays criminal trials don't have as a feature as many ""confessions"" from the accused in custody written in Garda speak, apparently written by said accused.

He is referring to the phenomenon, that it has always been a wonder for judiciary and lawyers alike why in the past seemingly so many accused people in Garda custody, especially those with vast experiences of the criminal justice system, would surprisingly volunteer or offer up confessions when they knew that there was no other evidence linking them to the crime and that the only way a conviction could be secured against themselves would be by them admitting to the crime. Also equally remarkably a lot of these confessions seemed to be written in the common vernacular of members of the An Garda Siochana or Templemorease as it is commonly known, rather than in the usual choice of words that one would expect from such an accused. Not surprisingly, very, very many of these so-called 'voluntary' confessions were later very strenously denied as ever having been made by the accused and Mr Garda in evidence at trial would then swear that said accused, in best Templemorease, held his hands up and sang like a canary...

Obviously very serious questions about the legitimacy of these statements or confessions used to make up a very large part of the criminal trial, whereas nowadays "it may be that a fundamental decency which has always been there has reasserted itself in the guards and this is worth recording and acknowledging" i.e. An Garda Siochana no longer fabricate or beat confessions out of people.

Yeah, but the herald version of events is better.

Nehaxak · 29-01-2009 01:49PM

Lugs was nothing more than a bully and a thug, sure it's great to hear stories of some oldskool robocop thumping fella's around and comitting what amounts to nothing more than common scumbag assault. Upholding the law has nothing and should have nothing to lowering yourself to the same level and bending the law to suit your own thuggish behaviour.

For those of you that think it's great stuff to hear, I've seen it firsthand from another well known robocop the same as Lugs called "Puddings".
Puddings used to catch guys, for whatever they were doing and some things were really bad but instead of locking them up he'd give them a choice - fight him and leave it at that or get taken to the station and deal with it through the courts. Now Puddings was a big fella, huge big guy, built like a tank and he hit like one too. Still, most lads that were caught by him would take the beating rather than end up in court and more than likely on to the Joy or Pats.
Let me tell you about a young lad, no older than 17 at the time - this lad was just walking down the street minding his own business when a couple of robocops jump out of their car and start pushing him around for no reason. Then the great Mr Puddings hopped out and took off his jacket, showing off to his robocop friends. Young lad is stood there still not knowing wtf is going on or wtf he was meant to have done when the great Puddings hits him an almigthy punch in the face, to great cheers and applause from his "comrades" around him. Now, that young lad eventually got up off the ground and instead of thinking "oh well, sure I probably deserved it, ah sure I'll be a good little fella for the rest of my days in case anything like that ever happens again to me for no reason" - no no, instead of that he rebelled, as did his friends, as did most of his whole area where he lived and as did the surrounding area's.
Let me tell you, from that day onward, there was not an ounce of respect given to any cop. That young lad from that day forward and all of his friends and everyone else around him had nothing but hatred for cops, absolute total and utter hatred. I will not do into what that young lad did to rebel against what he saw as nothing but bullies/thugs/pigs but he spent most of his youth doing everything he could to get back at them.
All of that, all of it because of one single scumbag thug cop who was everything about his thuggery and bullying and NOTHING about upholding the law.
So yeah, Lugs/Puddings/Robocop can all suck my balls - they are nothing but common thugs/bullies and deserve no respect, scumbag thugs is all they were and all they ever will be and they bring bad blood and dishonour to the Gardai, couple of really bad apples ruining it for those in the Garda who actually are doing a great job and doing their best to uphold the law while maintaining their integrity and professionalism.

Biggins · 29-01-2009 02:12PM

Nehaxak wrote: »

Lugs was nothing more than a bully... blaa blaa blaa...
recite unproven yarn blaa blaa blaa...

Even if that yarn was true, let me see, a scumbag that brakes the law daily, that might rob young and old of their pensions and saving books, beat them up and destroy their property, got beaten up. And you want sympathy for him and incite more hatred for the Gardi?

Na, nope, sorry - I frankly don't care if the scumbags get the living schite kicked out of them from one end of the week to the next.

I have four kids and if they ever turn out to be of the same calibre scumbag mentality, I'll hand them over to the Gardi to get the crap kicked out of them - when I am finished with them!

Have you any more fanciful yarns?

Blazer · 29-01-2009 02:20PM

S.I.R wrote: »

sitting outside a dart station waiting on mates to go to a gig...

searched and cuffed me ( a minor at the time... )

****ed head first in the back of the car...

got rushed to the station after a gardi eye ball by the gaf that got nicked beside the station

got out, seen several friends and my old boss who straight away said and i qoute " WTF !!!!!!...!!!...!!! "

took into the station where i was strip searched infront of most of the station ,then they went to cavity search...

and to think they though i robbed a gaf !!!

the bastards who owned the gaf agreed it was me !!

so after that they started making remarks to how " i was a filthy southside scumbag " and how " ill never amount to anything "

strangly...

after being released he said ( the guy who knicked me originally ) " if i see you in this area ill knick you again, but ill have my batton ready "

to which i replyed with " ill bringthe vasoline :rolleyes: "

and the fact that the stations 2 mins away fro mmy house... 5 steps south anjd im arrested ? Ghey.

now after tellin my old lad, and the brothers nobody was happy as you expect...

filed complaint after complaint, after 20 trys he got locked up for assult ( touching without permission... )

false arrest ( yes, 1 up baby. )

treatening misconduct

aswell as previous ****-ups not disclosed due to privacy.

Strangly enough that same night the gardi cars all got in traffic collions, the people who they hit never got caught but the cars where off the road for 3 weeks...

im happy i took the legal route, cause he might be still on the streets/in the job had i of worked other wise.

The system works

as for the robbed gaf, if i see that couple or any of their family...

Mini short version rant over.

too hung over to type the full version as it would be quite a bit of reading...

I'm trying to make sense of it but I haven't fcukin clue what he's talking about especially towards the end...

daveharnett · 29-01-2009 02:20PM

Ben Franklin wrote: »

Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

QFT.
I would expect a judge to have more respect for the rule of law tbh. While criminal justice isn't perfect, Gene Hunt is a thing of the past, and rightly so.

Nehaxak · 29-01-2009 02:25PM

Biggins wrote: »

Even if that yarn was true, let me see, a scumbag that brakes the law daily, that might rob young and old of their pensions and saving books, beat them up and destroy their property, got beaten up. And you want sympathy for him and incite more hatred for the Gardi?

How about a young lad who did nothing wrong, never done anything wrong, was just walking down the street minding his own business. Might be one of your kids in the future, who knows, wonder would you feel the same way about them being beaten up by a thug cop for no reason.
You presume an awful lot, said young lad was actually on his way home from a long days work on a building site. Dunno where you're going with robbing pensioners and the like... :rolleyes:

Na, nope, sorry - I frankly don't care if the scumbags get the living schite kicked out of them from one end of the week to the next.

For what it matters, neither do I but I still think the law should be upheld and not be broken, especially by cops.

I have four kids and if they ever turn out to be of the same calibre scumbag mentality, I'll hand them over to the Gardi to get the crap kicked out of them - when I am finished with them!

Well if your kids turned out like that it'd be your fault as their parent so...

Have you any more fanciful yarns?

A horse walks into a bar...

Dark_lord_ire · 29-01-2009 03:27PM

Nehaxak wrote: »

Lugs was nothing more than a bully and a thug, sure it's great to hear stories of some oldskool robocop thumping fella's around and comitting what amounts to nothing more than common scumbag assault. Upholding the law has nothing and should have nothing to lowering yourself to the same level and bending the law to suit your own thuggish behaviour.

For those of you that think it's great stuff to hear, I've seen it firsthand from another well known robocop the same as Lugs called "Puddings".
Puddings used to catch guys, for whatever they were doing and some things were really bad but instead of locking them up he'd give them a choice - fight him and leave it at that or get taken to the station and deal with it through the courts. Now Puddings was a big fella, huge big guy, built like a tank and he hit like one too. Still, most lads that were caught by him would take the beating rather than end up in court and more than likely on to the Joy or Pats.
Let me tell you about a young lad, no older than 17 at the time - this lad was just walking down the street minding his own business when a couple of robocops jump out of their car and start pushing him around for no reason. Then the great Mr Puddings hopped out and took off his jacket, showing off to his robocop friends. Young lad is stood there still not knowing wtf is going on or wtf he was meant to have done when the great Puddings hits him an almigthy punch in the face, to great cheers and applause from his "comrades" around him. Now, that young lad eventually got up off the ground and instead of thinking "oh well, sure I probably deserved it, ah sure I'll be a good little fella for the rest of my days in case anything like that ever happens again to me for no reason" - no no, instead of that he rebelled, as did his friends, as did most of his whole area where he lived and as did the surrounding area's.
Let me tell you, from that day onward, there was not an ounce of respect given to any cop. That young lad from that day forward and all of his friends and everyone else around him had nothing but hatred for cops, absolute total and utter hatred. I will not do into what that young lad did to rebel against what he saw as nothing but bullies/thugs/pigs but he spent most of his youth doing everything he could to get back at them.
All of that, all of it because of one single scumbag thug cop who was everything about his thuggery and bullying and NOTHING about upholding the law.
So yeah, Lugs/Puddings/Robocop can all suck my balls - they are nothing but common thugs/bullies and deserve no respect, scumbag thugs is all they were and all they ever will be and they bring bad blood and dishonour to the Gardai, couple of really bad apples ruining it for those in the Garda who actually are doing a great job and doing their best to uphold the law while maintaining their integrity and professionalism.

Lugs was not a thug by any means and your attitude seems to be the same that has us in this mess. In almost any other country in the world police are hard here the police don't even have guns. We have it too good which is a bad thing no fear of police leads to civil unrest. We should not be arfaid of the police just the criminals should be

stovelid · 29-01-2009 03:29PM

In my day, you could leave your key in the door.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-01-2009 03:36PM

18, drinking in a field in wexford. Garda approached me, asked my name, I gave him my first name, he slaped me in the face, chipped my tooth and said "don't be so smart, what's your full name?" I was never approached by a Garda before, didn't know how to deal with it. I said thanks for chipping my tooth and showed him the piece. His colleague apologised and gave me my cans back.

This is the way things should be done? I was drinking in a field ffs, not joyriding, murdering someone, or anything like that. How does a garda distinguish between a criminal and other?

Brother got a beating, not a slap, but a beating for underage drinking. Where's that Garda now? Well I know he's not on the force anymore. There was a court case, the Garda lost his job. Good enough for him, the scumbags....

We don't have a gun culture, the Garda have a unit that are able to carry guns.

The law should be there for everyone, not just the majority of people. The Garda are there to uphold the law, not to create it or make new laws. They cannot bend it to their will. How can any of you say that it's ok to hit a civilian?

Lug the thug... He was a thug, he is a scumbag. Just because the system is flawed doesn't mean it's ok to beat people up. The system needs to be fixed. If a garda hit me again, I know what i'd be doing.

sunnyside · 29-01-2009 03:54PM

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

i
my question is this has the law gone in the wrong direction too much giving the criminal too many rights. ]

They aren't even criminals most of the time any more--they are "people suspected of commiting a criminal offence";)

arybvtcw0eolkf · 29-01-2009 04:32PM

Amiyah Fierce Jackass wrote: »

Lug the thug... He was a thug, he is a scumbag. Just because the system is flawed doesn't mean it's ok to beat people up. The system needs to be fixed. If a garda hit me again, I know what i'd be doing.

+1.

A guard will never be in a position to assault me again, but if he did I wouldn't retaliate, I'd hit the ground.

I'd piss, sh*t and droll until I've taken the Dept. of Justice to the cleaners.

Then I'd chase after any money he has personally.

.

thelordofcheese · 29-01-2009 04:41PM

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

Lugs was not a thug by any means and your attitude seems to be the same that has us in this mess. In almost any other country in the world police are hard here the police don't even have guns. We have it too good which is a bad thing no fear of police leads to civil unrest. We should not be arfaid of the police just the criminals should be

The only difference between lugs and 'scumbags' is that lugs had a badge.

Dark_lord_ire · 29-01-2009 05:25PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

The only difference between lugs and 'scumbags' is that lugs had a badge.

So many negitive comments. It's sad to see that the country is burning and noone cares those that do don't have support. Well I would like to add that 95% of criminals no matter the offence will say they done nothing wrong. Thing will get better but must get alot worse first

mirror mirror · 29-01-2009 05:46PM

bide your time and plan well ,then make the knacker scumbag suffer .put him in sooo much pain that the b.tch who gave birth to him would feel it too.hurting an elderly couple like that ,thats all he deserves.

Morlar · 29-01-2009 06:02PM

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

i found it very interesting reading comments today from Justice Carney. I've always liked how he handled cases fair but firm and in resent comments he stated that ireland would not have the crime levels we have now if we had more lugs branigans to deal with criminals.

In case nobody knows james "lugs" branigan was a garda in dublin during the 60's and 70's famous in garda circles. He was a big strong man who would give any mouthy thugs a few slaps and send him home rather than clog up the courts. i'm being very general there lol but he had huge respect in the city from everyone.

Justice Carney also stated that in todays "PC" world he could not exsist and the would keep the ombusman very busy with complaints(actually probably dismissed and fired). Today if a thug is arrested he can say what he wants to the garda such as threaten to kill him, his family etc and cant be touched. If that person is under 18 odds are they get just a caution and their abusive parents in next morning very angry that their sweet little angel was unfairly arrested. We see gangs in control, thugs stealing cars and violence on our streets each weekend. Agreed most if not all is parents fault.

Once upon a time a garda would smack someone across the back of the head all the way home to the parents and then the parents would smack them for bringing the guards to the door and also thanking and backing the guards for it.

my question is this has the law gone in the wrong direction too much giving the criminal too many rights. Would any here agree with bringing back the likes of lugs?

personally i would love to see the gardai being able to take harder action.

for everyones information here is the link to the article.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/gardai-need-lugs-branigan-approach-to-cracking-crime-1617300.html

I would have a lot of time for Judge Carney - he was one of the few who handed down sentences which were understandable (from time to time at least).

I think the pendulum has gone too far the other way these days and needs to be redressed.

Nowadays you can try to try to throw a guard off a 3 floor balcony and get . .. .what 3 months ?

There are too many light/suspended/concurrent sentences these days and the flimsiest of 'reasons' given in the expectation of leniency. Scumbags have no fear of the courts. If that situation continues (which it seems likely to) then I would rather have them afraid of the guards if that meant they would show respect to the rest of society in the process.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 29-01-2009 06:22PM

The real criminals don't care about beatings. Like the IRA in the past they know how to deal with them.

The only people the guards would be brave enough to assault would be street protesters

Morlar · 29-01-2009 06:40PM

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The real criminals don't care about beatings.

If your talking about gang hitmen and hardcore organised criminals - then maybe not but there a LOT of scumbags who are not quite that far along who would care. As I see things its more a case of the guards being apprehensive about potential legal consequences rather than of being physically in fear of the scumbags. Not sure where you are going with the 'protestor' thing. I wouldnt know - the only recent time the guards really let loose (that I can think of) was against english football goons who were getting uppity

& fair play to them imo.

Nehaxak · 29-01-2009 06:42PM

Morlar wrote: »

[...]I would rather have them afraid of the guards if that meant they would show respect to the rest of society in the process.

Fear and respect are two different things and what you've said is typically what many "gangsters" would use. They use fear to gain respect. Is this what you and some others are advocating ? Sure seems that way.

I'd prefer people just respected our Garda out of sheer admiration for the work that they do rather than fear of getting a kick in the teeth from some backward bogger at the station, or in the street in broad daylight as they know they'll get away with it anyway because of the badge. Rotten apples there are but a few but it's all it takes to smear a whole force.

Morlar · 29-01-2009 06:51PM

Nehaxak wrote: »

Fear and respect are two different things and what you've said is typically what many "gangsters" would use. They use fear to gain respect. Is this what you and some others are advocating ? Sure seems that way.

I'd prefer people just respected our Garda out of sheer admiration for the work that they do rather than fear of getting a kick in the teeth from some backward bogger at the station, or in the street in broad daylight as they know they'll get away with it anyway because of the badge. Rotten apples there are but a few but it's all it takes to smear a whole force.

Do you honestly believe that at some point the scumbags of dublin/Ireland will realise the virtue in the dedication of An Garda Siochana and revert to a life free of crime and anti social behaviour ? You honestly think thats even remotely likely to happen to any kind of meaningful extent ? Honestly ?

The fact is (in my view) currently they do not have respect (in a large part) for the courts system. This leads to more crime and more (law abiding) victims.

Criminals in my experience have very little fear of suspended/light/concurrent legal raps on the knuckles for those rare times that they actually get caught and the case actually makes it as far as court.

If that continues (which I do not think it should) then yes faced with no other alternative I would have no problem with the guards filling the gap and knocking some sense into them from time to time. In the same way that english football fans know not to cause **** in dublin and know what to expect if they do (and havent since) I think it may bring about an improvement.

Not all guards are 'backward' btw or from the country.

tallaght01 · 29-01-2009 06:51PM

We all saw how beating up Rodney King put law and order back on the streets, didn't we!!!

In my opinion, we have jurys for a reason.

dvpower · 29-01-2009 07:06PM

Kernel wrote: »

Guards cant get physical because of the system of protecting the criminal.

Guards can't assault suspects because assault is against the law.

I'm surprised at the support here a 'Lugs Brannigan' style approach. What this is, in reality, is the Gaurds giving troublemakers a good kicking in instead of putting them through the judicial system or the JLO scheme.

Would anyone advocating this like to see it legislated for or are you just looking for a turn a blind eye (Irish style) approach?

Dark_lord_ire · 29-01-2009 07:08PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

We all saw how beating up Rodney King put law and order back on the streets, didn't we!!!

In my opinion, we have jurys for a reason.

In fairness the guards don't beat up black kids because they are black or even travellers for the sake of it. And juries are not the problem they are very important. Alot of people have problems with the punishment not the way we arrive at the verdict. Mind you solicitors are no angels they get huge money in legal aid (your tax) to stand up for johnny Connors who also is to much of a scumbag to work.

I agree that Gardai give the respect to us that we deserve but also that we show respect to those who risk their safety so we can go about our lives.

One comment I found interesting about the sentances not fitting the crime, criminals should fear the courts and risk jail for small offences if they are repeat offenders. Even our jails were holiday homes for these people but now that's changing which is good to see, should also take the American idea and set up chain gangs.:D

cocoa · 29-01-2009 07:12PM

If you wouldn't have corporal punishment or torture as an official punishment then why advocate it as a 'behind closed doors' and 'down dark alleys' punishment? No one should be above the law, if you feel beatings are needed then have them incorporated in the law, have a judge hand out beatings if you think that'll help.

funny, it sounds so much more nasty and backward when you imagine the brutality being out in the open like that...

People keep acting like it's so simple to tell 'scumbags' from 'society' (ahem, much though you may not like it, scumbags are a part of society) and 'criminals' from 'victims'. We have courts and judges and juries for a reason. You are suggesting that we sacrifice many people who are innocent (and don't be stupid, innocent people will suffer, there will be those wrongly accused, there always is) so that we may frighten those who are guilty.

I'd rather not sacrifice the innocent, personally.

Dark_lord_ire · 29-01-2009 07:15PM

dvpower wrote: »

Guards can't assault suspects because assault is against the law.

I'm surprised at the support here a 'Lugs Brannigan' style approach. What this is, in reality, is the Gaurds giving troublemakers a good kicking in instead of putting them through the judicial system or the JLO scheme.

Would anyone advocating this like to see it legislated for or are you just looking for a turn a blind eye (Irish style) approach?

Not at all keep systems that are not working but also send the young hard scumbag home crying that breaks down the image they want. Look simple as this anyone who wants to go and hugs the criminals rather then the victims go ahead. I go for old school approach and the liberal way ofvthink on crime does not work. Look at what's walking the streets today.

tallaght01 · 29-01-2009 07:16PM

cocoa wrote: »

If you wouldn't have corporal punishment or torture as an official punishment then why advocate it as a 'behind closed doors' and 'down dark alleys' punishment? No one should be above the law, if you feel beatings are needed then have them incorporated in the law, have a judge hand out beatings if you think that'll help.

funny, it sounds so much more nasty and backward when you imagine the brutality being out in the open like that...

People keep acting like it's so simple to tell 'scumbags' from 'society' (ahem, much though you may not like it, scumbags are a part of society) and 'criminals' from 'victims'. We have courts and judges and juries for a reason. You are suggesting that we sacrifice many people who are innocent (and don't be stupid, innocent people will suffer, there will be those wrongly accused, there always is) so that we may frighten those who are guilty.

I'd rather not sacrifice the innocent, personally.

Agreed.

I've taken some really pissy abuse from gardai in my time for nothing. I'd hate to think what would have happened if they'd been allowed to batter me for no reason.

I'd be more inclined to agree with the rule if it was a "fair fight" system.

It would still be useless but it would be funnier to watch

Biggins · 29-01-2009 07:29PM

It's clear the public have reached their own "Rubicon".

Everything that has been tried so far in the last ten tears as part of the P.C. brigade has produced nothing but increased crime figures and jammed revolving door jails.

Getting back to one of the first posts where supposed cops pulled up and stopped someone to have a word with them. The Gardi be they good (the vast majority) or bad, just DO NOT pull up at just anyone and pick on them.
In todays legal, run to the solicitor society, they know they are going to be in deep schite before they even get back in their vans/cars and return to their stations.
On the whole, if they stop someone, they do so knowing that they are troublemakers and well known to be in a community area. They know they will get feck all help from those hiding behind their curtains (but willing to give out about the Gardi doing nothing, fast enough on their internet forums), they know its up to them on the streets to handle the thugs before the out of touch judges get them in court and let them off again with a slap on the wrist.

So for those mentioning about a known thug or two receiving a slap or two about the ear, its understandable that they are concerned about innocents being hurt BUT those that are not so innocent are the ones that have to fear the Gardi and their information backed, action filled slaps!

I'm all for chain gangs, hard-core prisons (not holiday camps) and making them work hard labour - its what this country needs right now - not more street fighting, bar glass eye gouging and knife fighting to say the least!

dvpower · 29-01-2009 07:30PM

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

keep systems that are not working but also send the young hard scumbag home crying

i.e. turn a blind eye to the Guards beating up scumbags?

This seems a bit harsh for all involved.

For the gaurds, you seem to want to (re)introduce a culture where they feel they can/should deliver their own 'justice', but not provide them with legal protections when they comply with this.

For the scumbag's victim, no real justice (unless the victim agrees with your standpoint and not the rule of law).

For the scumbag, a let off. No court, no criminal conviction, no record. A few bruises that will heal in a few weeks and a lot of resentment that will not.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-01-2009 07:59PM

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

Not at all keep systems that are not working but also send the young hard scumbag home crying that breaks down the image they want. Look simple as this anyone who wants to go and hugs the criminals rather then the victims go ahead. I go for old school approach and the liberal way ofvthink on crime does not work. Look at what's walking the streets today.

1) "Keep systems that are not working"..>??

2) What happens when said scumbags comes back with a shotgun and blows tha guard's head off? Because I assure you, they are NOT scared. I'm not against the idea because I think it's cruel or barbaric, I'm against it because it's a stupid idea that WILL NOT WORK. Think things through before you put forward ideas like that!

3) Nothing to do with the liberal way of thinking. Mind you, the conservative way of thinking seems to assume that there'll be no backlash. Let me know how that works out for you.

thelordofcheese · 29-01-2009 08:00PM

Biggins wrote: »

It's clear the public have reached their own "Rubicon".

Everything that has been tried so far in the last ten tears as part of the P.C. brigade has produced nothing but increased crime figures and jammed revolving door jails.

Getting back to one of the first posts where supposed cops pulled up and stopped someone to have a word with them. The Gardi be they good (the vast majority) or bad, just DO NOT pull up at just anyone and pick on them.
In todays legal, run to the solicitor society, they know they are going to be in deep schite before they even get back in their vans/cars and return to their stations.
On the whole, if they stop someone, they do so knowing that they are troublemakers and well known to be in a community area. They know they will get feck all help from those hiding behind their curtains (but willing to give out about the Gardi doing nothing, fast enough on their internet forums), they know its up to them on the streets to handle the thugs before the out of touch judges get them in court and let them off again with a slap on the wrist.

So for those mentioning about a known thug or two receiving a slap or two about the ear, its understandable that they are concerned about innocents being hurt BUT those that are not so innocent are the ones that have to fear the Gardi and their information backed, action filled slaps!

I'm all for chain gangs, hard-core prisons (not holiday camps) and making them work hard labour - its what this country needs right now - not more street fighting, bar glass eye gouging and knife fighting to say the least!

the law either applies equally to everyone, or it doesn't apply to anyone.

If you're ok with back alley justice for 'scum' then you don't have the right to complain when they decide that you're a trouble maker and need to be taught a lesson.

Dark_lord_ire · 30-01-2009 01:12AM

dvpower wrote: »

i.e. turn a blind eye to the Guards beating up scumbags?

This seems a bit harsh for all involved.

For the gaurds, you seem to want to (re)introduce a culture where they feel they can/should deliver their own 'justice', but not provide them with legal protections when they comply with this.

For the scumbag's victim, no real justice (unless the victim agrees with your standpoint and not the rule of law).

For the scumbag, a let off. No court, no criminal conviction, no record. A few bruises that will heal in a few weeks and a lot of resentment that will not.

out of context im not saying arrest for fighting and slap the heads off i'm saying that in cases where your dealing with young scum who have no respect you get respect the only way they understand that putting it up to them. maybe it might make them rethink a life of crime.

Anyway maybe all the problem is the fact that kids are not parented properly anymore. Whatever about a gaurd giving a slap that was nothing years back to what the parents would do when you got home. I'm still under 30 woohoo but when i was a teen i knew that if i ever done something criminal my dad would have killed me and knowing that kept me on the straight. But whats to stop a 14 year old breaking into a building to go drinking then burning out a few diggers for a laugh ? JLO him yeah??

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

1) "Keep systems that are not working"..>??

2) What happens when said scumbags comes back with a shotgun and blows tha guard's head off? Because I assure you, they are NOT scared. I'm not against the idea because I think it's cruel or barbaric, I'm against it because it's a stupid idea that WILL NOT WORK. Think things through before you put forward ideas like that!

3) Nothing to do with the liberal way of thinking. Mind you, the conservative way of thinking seems to assume that there'll be no backlash. Let me know how that works out for you.

meet fire with fire, anyway what i was getting at is not slapping the heads of these lads its too late for them but when they were young and at an age where you could have instilled respect in them. And going the liberal root has had backlash was there not a guard shot in the middle of the day in dublin last year or was i dreaming about that? also i did hear assaults on gardai were up huge amounts (thats on the guards who now have to be nice) i cant quote fingure on assaults on gardai but i do recall hearing it on the news.

bet if they get pepperspray people will freak out they have it. I might add that in any other country ive been in where the police are armed i did feel safer knowing they were around. Sigh what a country we live in

garda methods- judge carney

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