Why do we have to pay for Parking?

towel401 · 26-01-2009 12:02AM

taconnol wrote: »

For a properly run car-park, the p.a. cost/car space is estimated at around €4000/year. Surprisingly enough, there are laws and you can't just throw up a sign and call it a carpark.

The point is for people to pay for the service they're using and encourage them to use other, more sustainable forms of transport.

The urban development in Ireland over the last 20 years has been of an incredibly low-density and basically copying the American model. This makes these places very car-dependent. America is not an ideal to be lived up to, rather it's an example of what not to do in urban planning.

that must be some very fancy car park. 'round here people are happy with a gravel field. not even a sign up saying its a car park but everyone parks there, lines their car up perfectly as if it was a proper car park with spaces and nothing ever seems to go wrong there.

if there is any law that gets in the way of having a free car park it should be got rid of. putting up a sign that says "car park" is exactly what they did here a couple of years ago with the ploughing championship and you basically drive onto some ****ers field and leave when you're finished. maybe this was even paid parking so they had to pay some guy to stand there and take the money which was probably their biggest expense.

there is no shame in driving or owning a car and that mentality belongs to the tree hugger loonies. so basically paid car parking is just another way of punishing people for driving a car instead of using other inferior forms of transport. but cars are not going to go away so the councils might as well build a proper free car park or otherwise ensure there are enough parking spots to go around because a town with nowhere to park is near worthless.

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:14AM

haven't read the whole thread so this might have been covered but if all they cared about was the money there wouldn't be a 3 hour max time as there are at most. Without the limit people working there would park there all day blocking shoppers from parking. The point is to keep high value spaces free. The money they get from it is just a bonus

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:15AM

however putting charges at train stations where people are supposed to park all day is just gouging. It encourages them to drive in since they're paying more anyway

towel401 · 26-01-2009 12:18AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

haven't read the whole thread so this might have been covered but if all they cared about was the money there wouldn't be a 3 hour max time as there are at most. Without the limit people working there would park there all day blocking shoppers from parking. The point is to keep high value spaces free. The money they get from it is just a bonus

so where are the people working there supposed to park?

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:20AM

towel401 wrote: »

so basically paid car parking is just another way of punishing people for driving a car instead of using other inferior forms of transport. but cars are not going to go away so the councils might as well build a proper free car park or otherwise ensure there are enough parking spots to go around because a town with nowhere to park is near worthless.

If all parking was free then dublin city centre would need about 200,000 spaces to meet demand. Apparently parking used to be free but it was impossible to drive around dublin city so paid parking was introduced to combat it

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 26-01-2009 12:20AM

steo87 wrote: »

Well....why are the public charged for parking their car on the side of a road? I can't see any logical explanation for it (well other than tax for the government to waster, but as I said 'logical' reasons)?

To reduce the use of cars. I won't drive into town because of the price. But I would if the parking is free...

I don't agree with people having to pay to park outside their house. That is complete crap. I was looking at a house in Dun Laoghire and I had to pay for my parking every year... fcuk off...

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:21AM

towel401 wrote: »

so where are the people working there supposed to park?

They're supposed to use the public transport that serves the city. I do it every day and i much prefer it to driving and takes me about 1/3 of the time

Macha · 26-01-2009 12:24AM

towel401 wrote: »

that must be some very fancy car park. 'round here people are happy with a gravel field. not even a sign up saying its a car park but everyone parks there, lines their car up perfectly as if it was a proper car park with spaces and nothing ever seems to go wrong there.

I don't know about you but when it's night time I like to, y'know have some lights and stuff? Regardless of how "fancy" the car park is, there will still be overheads that need to be covered.

towel401 wrote: »

if there is any law that gets in the way of having a free car park it should be got rid of.

Why? Just because you want it to be free doesn't mean that it should. You have yet to provide an argument for free carparking other than "I don't want to pay".

towel401 wrote: »

there is no shame in driving or owning a car and that mentality belongs to the tree hugger loonies.

*yawn* the name-calling is quite tiresome. I never said there was anything wrong with owning or using a car. But everybody using cars all the time doesn't work - you don't even need half a brain to see that.

towel401 wrote: »

so basically paid car parking is just another way of punishing people for driving a car instead of using other inferior forms of transport.

Now who's looking down on other people?
There are many, many reasons for people to use other forms of transport. Cars have their place but Ireland is far too dependent on private car-use.

towel401 wrote: »

but cars are not going to go away so the councils might as well build a proper free car park or otherwise ensure there are enough parking spots to go around because a town with nowhere to park is near worthless.

Again, no one is saying anything about getting rid of cars but I don't see why my taxes should go towards paying for free parking. There are about a million other things that are more important than subsidising carparking fees.

You think a town with nowhere to park is near worthless? I'd hate to live where you live.

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:25AM

Emilio Black Walrus wrote: »

To reduce the use of cars. I won't drive into town because of the price. But I would if the parking is free...

I don't agree with people having to pay to park outside their house. That is complete crap. I was looking at a house in Dun Laoghire and I had to pay for my parking every year... fcuk off...

That's a scam tbh. They build you a house that's inferior in that it doesn't have a parking space and then charge you extra because of this?

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:27AM

towel401, if parking was free it would be completely impossible for you to get a space unless you got there about 4am so you still wouldn't be able to bring your car and it'd take you 3 times as long to get there to find out there was nowhere to park

towel401 · 26-01-2009 12:30AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

They're supposed to use the public transport that serves the city. I do it every day and i much prefer it to driving and takes me about 1/3 of the time

well you`re lucky. because for a lot of people that just isn't an option. really they should have worked out how many parking spots they need for employees and customers before they build the damned thing.

4000 a year for a parking spot is a load of bollox. you can rent a half decent apartment in a second (not third) world country for that.

supply and demand is the only thing that governs the value of a parking spot. if you try to charge people for parking in some little village in the backarse of nowhere then people would rather walk or keep driving to the next village. if a town is planned properly then there wouldn't be a shortage of parking spaces and would ensure that all parking spots are near-worthless like they should be

JIZZLORD · 26-01-2009 12:34AM

realcam wrote: »

The side of the road is valuable land that could be easily sold off and developed? Single-lane bowling alleys all the way down main street ftw.

not the side of the road but town centre car parks that exist nationwide

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:36AM

towel401 wrote: »

well you`re lucky. because for a lot of people that just isn't an option. really they should have worked out how many parking spots they need for employees and customers before they build the damned thing.

That's not a feasible plan because they would need a car park about the size of galway to accommodate everyone.

And who can't drive to a train station and get a train from there?

towel401 wrote: »

4000 a year for a parking spot is a load of bollox. you can rent a half decent apartment in a second (not third) world country for that.

This is true. It could be cheaper but free parking just wouldn't work

towel401 wrote: »

supply and demand is the only thing that governs the value of a parking spot. if you try to charge people for parking in some little village in the backarse of nowhere then people would rather walk or keep driving to the next village. if a town is planned properly then there wouldn't be a shortage of parking spaces and would ensure that all parking spots are near-worthless like they should be

again, you're drastically underestimating the amount of space this would take. About 1.5 million people work in dublin (a reasonable figure plucked from my head). How big is the average parking space?

towel401 · 26-01-2009 12:37AM

taconnol wrote: »

I don't know about you but when it's night time I like to, y'know have some lights and stuff? Regardless of how "fancy" the car park is, there will still be overheads that need to be covered.

Why? Just because you want it to be free doesn't mean that it should. You have yet to provide an argument for free carparking other than "I don't want to pay".

*yawn* the name-calling is quite tiresome. I never said there was anything wrong with owning or using a car. But everybody using cars all the time doesn't work - you don't even need half a brain to see that.

Now who's looking down on other people?
There are many, many reasons for people to use other forms of transport. Cars have their place but Ireland is far too dependent on private car-use.

Again, no one is saying anything about getting rid of cars but I don't see why my taxes should go towards paying for free parking. There are about a million other things that are more important than subsidising carparking fees.

You think a town with nowhere to park is near worthless? I'd hate to live where you live.

you don't need lights on a car park. literally all you need is a field maybe with a few pebbles on it so it won't get soggy. people will park anywhere if it`s free and it costs no more to maintain than any other plot of open space the council happens to own.

if its not free then a lot of people, including myself will go on to the next place where you can park for free. unless you think there should be some sort of minimum parking fee to put the overcrowded places that charge for parking on a level playing field.

being dependent on cars doesn't have to be a bad thing as long the government doesn't go around ripping off car owners at every opportunity (the ridiculous petrol tax, etc)

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:47AM

i estimated a space at 10 by 8 feet and multiplied by 1.5 million. The result was 10,800,000m2. Does dublin have that much free do you think?

Sam Vimes · 26-01-2009 12:52AM

seems i underestimated the size
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_parking_space_size

I know that's america but it's a good guide

towel401 · 26-01-2009 12:55AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i estimated a space at 10 by 8 feet and multiplied by 1.5 million. The result was 10,800,000m2. Does dublin have that much free do you think?

Build one of those artificial islands in the sea like they do in Bahrain or those other countries where all that nice juicy crude oil comes from. Dublin is a lost cause really for adding more parking spaces so the 5e per hour thing will stay, people will pay it and think its good value. parking at the train station isn't a bad idea but even here in culchie land you have to pay 2e per day for that - a recent thing they brought in although there are always free spaces.

i'd hate to drive around in dublin so I always take the train there. just because the place was never designed for cars. there has to be something in between the american town planning where you're basically ****ed without a car and the irish one

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 26-01-2009 01:05AM

towel401 wrote: »

well you`re lucky. because for a lot of people that just isn't an option. really they should have worked out how many parking spots they need for employees and customers before they build the damned thing.

4000 a year for a parking spot is a load of bollox. you can rent a half decent apartment in a second (not third) world country for that.

supply and demand is the only thing that governs the value of a parking spot. if you try to charge people for parking in some little village in the backarse of nowhere then people would rather walk or keep driving to the next village. if a town is planned properly then there wouldn't be a shortage of parking spaces and would ensure that all parking spots are near-worthless like they should be

So the upkeep of the parking lot, the security, lighting, insurance... that's all free? I am sure there are more overheads but I can't think of them at the moment.

There is no need for free parking in the city. It is not feesible, it is not good for the environment, it's not good for traffic congestion etc etc.

JIZZLORD · 26-01-2009 01:05AM

Hagar wrote: »

For a start who owns it? The council is the people, the state is the people, of themselves these bodies own nothing, they merely hold it in trust for the people they are systematically fleecing. Anyway point to the queue of developers with bulging pockets of cash willing to build anything nowadays. They don't exist, do they?

Obviously with the state of the economy today the sale and development of this land will not and shouldn't happen. And yes we the people of this country are stakeholders in these publicly owned land banks, but in terms of parking, regulation must occur. Parking in an orderly fashion like joining a queue is civilised. were the town councils and city councils not to give a toss about how people parked there would be no order as to how we park. Ideally public transport would eliminate a lot of the journeys by car into towns for certain people but as everyone knows this is not an option in this country today. Look at the congestion charge in London. This is designed to encourage people who may not need to drive in to consider their other options.

I'm living on a housing estate that is as the crow flies under 300 metres from Eyre square in Galway. now i often see cars parked that i dont recognise and arrive back to the house a few hours later to find that car clamped. Why? Because people think that they can get away with parking in a residents spot (though i'll admit that the clamping company are over zealous). I know a guy who lives close to me on bohermore, one of the roads that leads from the centre of town out towards the dublin road and he has to pay residents parking to the council, the cost is definitely cheaper than walking up the street to a ticket machine and getting a ticket each day, yet still these kinda charges are dodgy.

inner city car parking is a service, granted in a lot of cases we'll be paying for use of something that we'll have a stake in. but it's a service none the less goverened by the concept of supply and demand. Council operated parking is a money spinner that goes towards several things. apart from maintenance of the site itself it'll be used in different areas. Everyone wants a good parking spot, and often to get one you will have to pay for the convenience.

That's life. We may not agree with it but that's how it is.

Macha · 26-01-2009 01:07AM

towel401 wrote: »

you don't need lights on a car park. literally all you need is a field maybe with a few pebbles on it so it won't get soggy. people will park anywhere if it`s free and it costs no more to maintain than any other plot of open space the council happens to own.

Ah come on. Even if just for security you need lights.

towel401 wrote: »

if its not free then a lot of people, including myself will go on to the next place where you can park for free. unless you think there should be some sort of minimum parking fee to put the overcrowded places that charge for parking on a level playing field.

The point is that no where is free...

towel401 wrote: »

being dependent on cars doesn't have to be a bad thing as long the government doesn't go around ripping off car owners at every opportunity (the ridiculous petrol tax, etc)

You really think being dependent on cars isn't a bad thing? Ok...

- cars are expensive and it's a burden to have to buy one
- many people can't use cars (poor, young, elderly, sick) and having a city dependent on cars ostracizes these people. They either have to use inefficient public transport, pay for expensive taxis or go without.
- even if you don't believe in global warming, cars emit other pollution into the air, such as dioxins, contributing to asthma and other respiratory diseases
- cars are a source of noise pollution
- roads are expensive to build, for the cars to run on (unless you're happy with a dirt track with no lights? :pac:)
- road are an impermeable surface, which causes problems in times of heavy rain
- run-off from roads is highly polluted with motor oil and requires additional cleaning and filtration
-habitat loss as more roads are built
- as of yet, no viable alternative has been found to 100% replace oil as the fuel for cars. It is not a good idea to be totally dependent on a fuel that has to be sourced from another country, has signs of running out in the not-so-distant future and is open to volatile fluctations on the global market.
- increased car usage is associated with more road accidents,
- cars take up a larger amount of space on the road per passenger than any other form of road transport.

Do I need to keep going? Because there's more

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 26-01-2009 01:11AM

Oh, I forgot to mention rules and regulations. Another fact, where the fcuk would you put a single story car park in any major city centre in Ireland? You would need a multi story car park.

towel401 · 26-01-2009 01:14AM

Emilio Black Walrus wrote: »

So the upkeep of the parking lot, the security, lighting, insurance... that's all free? I am sure there are more overheads but I can't think of them at the moment.

There is no need for free parking in the city. It is not feesible, it is not good for the environment, it's not good for traffic congestion etc etc.

that depends on how low-spec you want to go. most car parks don't have security anyway and if they do it's just to make sure nobody is damaging their precious car clamps. no lighting needed since every car comes with its own set of lights. no insurance since there is usually a disclaimer that says you park at your own risk. a field with a few pebbles or other minimalist surface will last for a very long time before it gets too bad to park on.

it can't be that hard to design a town from scratch that has enough parking spots for the people in it. the problem is just bringing parking spots to an already overcrowded place. all the fossil fuels will eventually get burned up one way or another so making people pay for parking won't reduce pollution. we live in one of the windiest places around so it won't take long for those exhaust fumes to disperse. not like other places where it tends to linger around for longer

towel401 · 26-01-2009 01:30AM

taconnol wrote: »

Ah come on. Even if just for security you need lights.

The point is that no where is free...

You really think being dependent on cars isn't a bad thing? Ok...

- cars are expensive and it's a burden to have to buy one
- many people can't use cars (poor, young, elderly, sick) and having a city dependent on cars ostracizes these people. They either have to use inefficient public transport, pay for expensive taxis or go without.
- even if you don't believe in global warming, cars emit other pollution into the air, such as dioxins, contributing to asthma and other respiratory diseases
- cars are a source of noise pollution
- roads are expensive to build, for the cars to run on (unless you're happy with a dirt track with no lights? :pac:)
- road are an impermeable surface, which causes problems in times of heavy rain
- run-off from roads is highly polluted with motor oil and requires additional cleaning and filtration
-habitat loss as more roads are built
- as of yet, no viable alternative has been found to 100% replace oil as the fuel for cars. It is not a good idea to be totally dependent on a fuel that has to be sourced from another country, has signs of running out in the not-so-distant future and is open to volatile fluctations on the global market.
- increased car usage is associated with more road accidents,
- cars take up a larger amount of space on the road per passenger than any other form of road transport.

Do I need to keep going? Because there's more

there are plenty of free spots and they will stay free as long as the demand for them is low enough. just like there are plenty of cheap cars to go around as the rich people move on to bigger and better ones with more Bluetooth and SatNav.

the car park can be a dirt track with no lights but the roads should be made properly instead of spending money on posh car parks. it will take a few years for battery technology to improve but until then we can just burn the crude oil while it's still there. the sooner it's gone the better really that way the car manufacturers will have to put some serious work into developing a decent electric car.

even the roads have capacity for plenty of more cars if only the traffic lights system was improved. of course some places are so bad turning them into pedestrianised streets wouldn't be a bad idea. if they built roads properly here the first time it wouldn't cost much to maintain but they like to take the easy way out and leave the mess for the next guy who gets elected

Macha · 26-01-2009 01:38AM

Oh lord I give up.

Whatever.

Why do we have to pay for Parking?

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