The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:34PM

Melion wrote: »

Yep, thats the reason. Is that why United are now top? If Arsenal and Chelsea were playing well, would they be the top 2?

No, so you can join the other clueless poster out the door.

possibly and liverpool would be back in the usuall 4th spot

Melion · 22-01-2009 02:34PM

Boggles wrote: »

That's a question that can't be answered til May.

Oh jesus, dont you fúcking start.

Melion · 22-01-2009 02:35PM

ntlbell wrote: »

can someone explain how coming 4th 11 points behind the league leaders is challenging for the title?

the year before 3rd and 21 points behind this is not challening my friend.

if you end up 2/3rd this year 9/10/11 points behind where's the progress?

So 21 points behind one year, 11 points behind the next isnt progress?

What is wrong with people on here?

roryc · 22-01-2009 02:36PM

What a silly, silly thread.

The reason so many managers aren't getting a chance these days is because of fairweather fans like a few people in this thread.

Yes Benitez has made mistakes, so does every single manager. Perhaps he's sees a lot more on the training ground from certain players who just don't seem to recreate it on the pitch. Either way, Benitez has won a CL for Pool, and has them in the best position to challenge for the title in 20 years. Give the man a chance ffs

If Fergie had started his career 20 years later he'd be f**ked IMO

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:37PM

Melion wrote: »

So 21 points behind one year, 11 points behind the next isnt progress?

What is wrong with people on here?

3rd one year 4th the next?

regardless of points that's going backwards no?

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:38PM

roryc wrote: »

What a silly, silly thread.

The reason so many managers aren't getting a chance these days is because of fairweather fans like a few people in this thread.

Yes Benitez has made mistakes, so does every single manager. Perhaps he's sees a lot more on the training ground from certain players who just don't seem to recreate it on the pitch. Either way, Benitez has won a CL for Pool, and has them in the best position to challenge for the title in 20 years. Give the man a chance ffs

If Fergie had started his career 20 years later he'd be f**ked IMO

not true they've been in better positions and blew it before..

deisedevil · 22-01-2009 02:38PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

The only reason liverpool are getting "closer" to the title is because of arsenal and chelsea's poor form. Nothing to do with rafa's managerial genius

That's my thoughts on it aswell. He hasn't made any huge improvement with Pool this season, they were benifiting from the poor form of others and what's worse theycouldn't even capitalise on this and get a few points clear at least. These notions of Pool fans that being 2nd at this stage of the season is such a great thing is way off the mark.

spockety · 22-01-2009 02:39PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

The only reason liverpool are getting "closer" to the title is because of arsenal and chelsea's poor form. Nothing to do with rafa's managerial genius

The only reason Manchester United and Chelsea won the league over the last 4 years is because of Liverpool and Arsenal's poor form. Nothing to do with... etc. etc.

Hello, and welcome to a league championship.

Melion · 22-01-2009 02:39PM

ntlbell wrote: »

3rd one year 4th the next?

regardless of points that's going backwards no?

So clear this up for me.

May 2009
1st United - 87 points
2nd Chelsea - 87 pts
3rd Arsenal 87 pts
4th Liverpool 87 pts

United win the title on goal difference, we finish 4th. Is that not progress?

whatawaster · 22-01-2009 02:40PM

deisedevil wrote: »

He had a lot less to work with than Benitez did. Benitez hasn't made any considerable improvement in terms of CL in my opinion and I have huge respect for Pool fans who admit that.

Most people will accept that it's never been harder to win the premier league. When Rafa came in we were (just about) the fourth best team in the country. Then, the only player who had looked capable of scoring us goals in the previous few years leaves for a cut-down price. Rafa can't add hugely to the squad, and wins the CL largely with a team of average players. Yes, we were lucky in the final, but there were some brilliant performances throughout the tournament. Both Leverkusen matches. Home to Juventus. The defending against Chelsea.
Over the next 4 years he had to work on a budget he's basically earnt for himself through excellent CL performances (though you say above he hasn't made any improvement in that regard).
Ferguson, if i'm not mistaken had two very important things in his favour. 1. Liverpool, the best team in the country for two decades were on the decline (neither chelsea, or united or Arsenal were on the decline when Rafa came in) and he was able to pay large transfer fees (for the time) for players like Keane (Torres, 3 years after Rafa came in, was his first signing over 15 million)

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:40PM

Melion wrote: »

So clear this up for me.

May 2009
1st United - 87 points
2nd Chelsea - 87 pts
3rd Arsenal 87 pts
4th Liverpool 87 pts

United win the title on goal difference, we finish 4th. Is that not progress?

no, you'll end up 4th again.

another year with nothing.

same as you were..

Melion · 22-01-2009 02:44PM

ntlbell wrote: »

no, you'll end up 4th again.

another year with nothing.

same as you were..

Stop talking shít

whatawaster · 22-01-2009 02:45PM

ntlbell wrote: »

not true they've been in better positions and blew it before..

eh, when?

eagle eye · 22-01-2009 02:45PM

deisedevil wrote: »

When Fergie came we had nearly been relegated the year before, his first season we finished 11th, in the next season we finished 2nd. The club were in an awful state when Fergie came in. Were Liverpool in that kind of position when Benitez came in? What has he done that Houlier didn't do? He won the CL.

I know my history, especially on the Fergie era and what he did. He had a lot less to work with than Benitez did. Benitez hasn't made any considerable improvement in terms of CL in my opinion and I have huge respect for Pool fans who admit that.

:rolleyes:
Yeah you know your history alright.

NOT

deisedevil · 22-01-2009 02:46PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Most people will accept that it's never been harder to win the premier league. When Rafa came in we were (just about) the fourth best team in the country. Then, the only player who had looked capable of scoring us goals in the previous few years leaves for a cut-down price. Rafa can't add hugely to the squad, and wins the CL largely with a team of average players. Yes, we were lucky in the final, but there were some brilliant performances throughout the tournament. Both Leverkusen matches. Home to Juventus. The defending against Chelsea.
Over the next 4 years he had to work on a budget he's basically earnt for himself through excellent CL performances (though you say above he hasn't made any improvement in that regard).
Ferguson, if i'm not mistaken had two very important things in his favour. 1. Liverpool, the best team in the country for two decades were on the decline (neither chelsea, or united or Arsenal were on the decline when Rafa came in) and he was able to pay large transfer fees (for the time) for players like Keane (Torres, 3 years after Rafa came in, was his first signing over 15 million)

Fair enough. So Rafa is doing as much as he can with a team that are at best a 4th place league team. Therefore he's a decent manager and is doing a great job keeping Pool at that level.

Some Pool fans need to make their mind up, is Rafa doing the best he can with a club who are not good enough to win the league or is Rafa a poor manager not doing enough with a club who should be capable of winning the league?

Paparazzo · 22-01-2009 02:46PM

Melion wrote: »

When were we ever miles ahead?

Liverpool were 8 points ahead of man-u at one point before christmas
United: W W D W W W W W
Liverpool: D W D D W W D D
That their league form, that's the 8 points dropped

Melion wrote: »

Yep, thats the reason.

You're begining to see sense

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:48PM

Melion wrote: »

Stop talking shít

only if you start reading posts.

21 pints behind...not challening...

11 points behind...not challening...

i said if you finish again 11 points behind it's another year it's the same as last year = no progress....

see?

your point

you cut it down from 21 to 11 in a year..great...

now what happens this year if it's the same? no progress

so when is enough enough when do you decide to change?

how many more years does he get to progress?

3? 4?

if he comes with 4/5 points for the next 4 years your happy?

that's what liverpool are happy with now?

sounds like a serious lack of ambition

LuckyLloyd · 22-01-2009 02:48PM

roryc wrote: »

What a silly, silly thread.

The reason so many managers aren't getting a chance these days is because of fairweather fans like a few people in this thread.

Yes Benitez has made mistakes, so does every single manager. Perhaps he's sees a lot more on the training ground from certain players who just don't seem to recreate it on the pitch. Either way, Benitez has won a CL for Pool, and has them in the best position to challenge for the title in 20 years. Give the man a chance ffs

If Fergie had started his career 20 years later he'd be f**ked IMO

Yup, this is the reality as far as I'm concerned. If Fergie takes over in 1996 as opposed to 2006 there is no dynasty.

Another thing to remember is that saying "THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN" when the subject is sports is incredibly stupid.

- Liverpool were 3 - 0 down at halftime in May 2005;
- The Boston Redsox were 3 games down in a best of seven series against the Yankees in October 2004;
- The Arizona Cardinals had not made the playoffs since the 1990 / 91 season coming into this year;
- Greece were priced as the least likely to win the 2004 European Championship by some bookmakers in May 2004;

If you keep trying and don't give up, amazing things can happen in sport. Liverpool winning a title under Benitez next season would not be any more amazing than some of the above examples of the unexpected.

whatawaster · 22-01-2009 02:49PM

deisedevil wrote: »

Fair enough. So Rafa is doing as much as he can with a team that are at best a 4th place league team. Therefore he's a decent manager and is doing a great job keeping Pool at that level.

Some Pool fans need to make their mind up, is Rafa doing the best he can with a club who are not good enough to win the league or is Rafa a poor manager not doing enough with a club who should be capable of winning the league?

Rafa is doing the best he can with a team that are challenging the top teams more than they ever have, and it remains to be seen if we're good enough to win the league.
In my opinion, our team isn't good enough to win the league (on paper anyway), there are still a couple of holes in the squad. Yet i have faith in Rafa to get the best out of our team and i'm confident we'll be there or thereabouts come may. That's all any reasonable Liverpool fan wants

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:50PM

whatawaster wrote: »

eh, when?

01-02

Melion · 22-01-2009 02:52PM

ntlbell wrote: »

only if you start reading posts.

21 pints behind...not challening...

11 points behind...not challening...

i said if you finish again 11 points behind it's another year it's the same as last year = no progress....

see?

your point

you cut it down from 21 to 11 in a year..great...

now what happens this year if it's the same? no progress

so when is enough enough when do you decide to change?

how many more years does he get to progress?

3? 4?

if he comes with 4/5 points for the next 4 years your happy?

that's what liverpool are happy with now?

sounds like a serious lack of ambition

Wanna make sense for me?

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:53PM

Melion wrote: »

Wanna make sense for me?

i could make it all in caps?

Melion · 22-01-2009 02:54PM

ntlbell wrote: »

i could make it all in caps?

Just some sense will do please.

You think going from finishing 11 points behind to finishing on the same amount of points isnt progress.

deisedevil · 22-01-2009 02:55PM

eagle eye wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Yeah you know your history alright.
NOT

Oops, the shame. We were almost in the relegation zone when he came in and he brought us up to 11th. I always thought we were nearly relegated the season before and we finished 11th in his first season. Oh well i wasonly a year old so my memories of it are a bit cloudy, lol

Mr Alan · 22-01-2009 02:56PM

good to see you crawl out from under your bridge NTL

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:57PM

Melion wrote: »

Just some sense will do please.

You think going from finishing 11 points behind to finishing on the same amount of points isnt progress.

no i asked was it challening? and i dont consider it to be.

then i asked what if he lands in the same spot this year

10/11 points behind where's the progress

where will it be enough to say lets get someone new?

how many years do you give a man to keep coming 3/4th regardless of points for the biggest club in the world who hasn't won a title in 20 years?

whatawaster · 22-01-2009 02:57PM

deisedevil wrote: »

Oops, the shame. We were almost in the relegation zone when he came in and he brought us up to 11th. I always thought we were nearly relegated the season before and we finished 11th in his first season. Oh well i wasonly a year old so my memories of it are a bit cloudy, lol

bottom in November. Finished 11th. That sounds like something Harry Redknapp could get out of

Melion · 22-01-2009 02:58PM

So losing the title on goal difference isnt challenging?

ntlbell · 22-01-2009 02:59PM

Melion wrote: »

So losing the title on goal difference isnt challenging?

:rolleyes:

GuanYin · 22-01-2009 03:45PM

Guys if you want to contribute to the discussion post in this thread, if you don't want to contribute DON't POST. If you have a problem with posts, report the posts and we'll look at them.

If you spam or threadspoil, you'll be infracted, if you keep at it, you'll be banned and your posts deleted. Just because you don't like a topic, doesn't mean it can't be discussed. Stay civil and on-topic.

The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

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