Go-Ahead for New Ross Bypass

invincibleirish · 29-12-2008 9:33am

MYOB wrote: »

On the N25 its not going to be overly more expensive to build a 2+2 bridge than a WS2 bridge. However, stringing a second bridge across in 30 years time would be extremely expensive.

Thats if it is needed in 30 years time. Anything to show that Rosslare Europort is going to be a lot busier in 30 years time then it has been for the last 30 years?

murphaph · 29-12-2008 11:13am

invincibleirish wrote: »

Thats if it is needed in 30 years time. Anything to show that Rosslare Europort is going to be a lot busier in 30 years time then it has been for the last 30 years?

Bypassing New Ross might make it busier. Seriously, if the links to Rosslare Europort were up to scratch it would I believe, be busier. Rosslare-Fishguard/Pembroke-London-Calais is much more direct for much of southern Ireland than the route via North Wales! We also (as previously stated) have a diluted port setup so each little seaside town has its own port (sound familiar?) taking business from one another. The island really needs just Larne/Belfast/Dublin/Rosslare for excellent connectivity to Britain and onwards to the continent.

invincibleirish · 29-12-2008 12:55pm

murphaph wrote: »

Bypassing New Ross might make it busier. Seriously, if the links to Rosslare Europort were up to scratch it would I believe, be busier. Rosslare-Fishguard/Pembroke-London-Calais is much more direct for much of southern Ireland than the route via North Wales! We also (as previously stated) have a diluted port setup so each little seaside town has its own port (sound familiar?) taking business from one another. The island really needs just Larne/Belfast/Dublin/Rosslare for excellent connectivity to Britain and onwards to the continent.

It might, but going in tandem with suggestions above of improving links to Rosslare, thats new build DC for the N25, N24 & N11 to somehow stimulate trade. i'm all for strategic investment but as i say thats an awful lot of expensive road to build to serve a second tier port, even more so when resources are limited?.

Is this Bypass actually going ahead in 2009? i've gone OT but has the money actually been confirmed?

Chris_533976 · 29-12-2008 1:01pm

No chance

It wont be in 09 unless the Gov changes tack. But AFAIK this has been bumped almost to the top of the priority list (maybe even just behind Newlands and possibly ahead of the N11 gap, which is stupid).

Rumours a few months ago said they're gonna set the Waterford bridge crowd to New Ross once they're done, but who knows now whats going to really happen.

Lennoxschips · 29-12-2008 3:46pm

However, stringing a second bridge across in 30 years time would be extremely expensive.

Not really, if you plan ahead it could work out cheaper.

You build a modular prefab bridge and leave room for another one next to it in 30 years time if needed.

Bypassing New Ross might make it busier. Seriously, if the links to Rosslare Europort were up to scratch it would I believe, be busier. Rosslare-Fishguard/Pembroke-London-Calais is much more direct for much of southern Ireland than the route via North Wales!

I've done Amsterdam to Cork on both routes and neither time did New Ross even cross my mind when calculating the 20 hour drive.

murphaph · 29-12-2008 4:14pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

Not really, if you plan ahead it could work out cheaper.

You build a modular prefab bridge and leave room for another one next to it in 30 years time if needed.

I find it hard to believe it could possibly, under any realistic circumstances, be cheaper to erect heavy lifting cranes to build one bridge, take them all down, wait a period of years, re-erect them and build the the second parallel bridge instead of building a 2+2 bridge to begin with.

Lennoxschips wrote: »

I've done Amsterdam to Cork on both routes and neither time did New Ross even cross my mind when calculating the 20 hour drive.

Well, New Ross is just part of the route to Rosslare. It happens it's the most expensive bit so it's made 4 pages already. I would (as I said already) like to see the N24->N25 at least 2+2 throughout their lengths.

Travelling home once in a while from the continent I wouldn't really consider New Ross either, but hauling goods to market everyday is a different matter.

Lennoxschips · 29-12-2008 8:39pm

murphaph wrote: »

I find it hard to believe it could possibly, under any realistic circumstances, be cheaper to erect heavy lifting cranes to build one bridge, take them all down, wait a period of years, re-erect them and build the the second parallel bridge instead of building a 2+2 bridge to begin with.

Factor in 30 years of maintenance costs on a bridge that's twice as big as it needs to be and you might be surprised.

Travelling home once in a while from the continent I wouldn't really consider New Ross either, but hauling goods to market everyday is a different matter.

Hauling goods is done at 80 km/hr.

corktina · 29-12-2008 8:47pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

Hauling goods is done at 80 km/hr.

haha..you try catching them guys on the M4:D I regularly do that run and I'm still passing irish Trucks at junction12 Reading...:)

BluntGuy · 29-12-2008 8:47pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

No chance

It wont be in 09 unless the Gov changes tack. But AFAIK this has been bumped almost to the top of the priority list (maybe even just behind Newlands and possibly ahead of the N11 gap, which is stupid).

Rumours a few months ago said they're gonna set the Waterford bridge crowd to New Ross once they're done, but who knows now whats going to really happen.

Sorry, but this project shouldn't even get to look at the priority list until Newlands Cross, the SRRs, the M11, M18, M20, Adare Bypass, Claregalway Bypass and other more important projects are finished.

This project will suck limited resources from other more needing road schemes.

murphaph · 29-12-2008 9:46pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

Factor in 30 years of maintenance costs on a bridge that's twice as big as it needs to be and you might be surprised.

For a start, the deck of the bridge would not need to be anywhere near twice as big to carry twice as many lanes! An S2 bridge is a lot wider than just the two lanes. In any case, I'd be interested to see any figures for bridge maintenance costs versus bridge size for cable stayed (I presume box girder) bridges because I don't believe the additional costs in maintaining a slighty (not twice as big!) larger bridge would outstrip the costs of erecting a second bridge 30 years later. You're also assuming you can accurately predict when a second bridge will be needed-it may be needed in 10 years. I just don't believe any large river crossing should be built as an S2 in this day and age. When they built the Foyle Bridge (currently longest in Ireland) they opted for D2 even though the roads either side were S2. I think thye made the right choice.

Dilbert75 · 03-01-2009 12:49am

I'm a bit puzzled where this upgrade of the New Ross to Waterford road is - they resurfaced a few bits that were subsiding but, other than the links to the Waterford bypass, that seems to be about it. Along with the M50, its a perfect example of a road that was inadequate shortly after it was built, given that it was single-carriageway.

Its imperative that whatever bridge is built is future-proofed to a reasonable extent - dual-carriageway seems a reasonable spec. The marginal cost over single-carriageway is not going to be proportional to the capacity. Given the length of time its likely to take to get going, the chances are that the traffic levels will have risen quite a bit before it opens.

corktina · 03-01-2009 10:44am

im a bit puzzled too about the comments on the alleged up grading of this route (beyond New Ross especially).Admittedly the traffic patterns are not constant as there are lulls between ferries, but this road can be highly dangerous with demonic late ferry-bound traffic driving too fast or fed-up tired ex-ferry traffic hurrying unduly towards their destination. This road is a LOT beter than it used to be but still needs a LOT more upgrading to make it worthy of its Euroroute epithet

Cian R · 03-01-2009 11:32pm

tbh i think that 2+2 would be ideal for this bridge

Road-Hog · 07-01-2009 2:44pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

I heard one billion mentioned before...

I thought it was way too much at first, but think about it:

Consider that the Waterford Bypass costed 600 million (half of which you can attribute to the bridge), and has a much shorter bridge (the N.R bypass bridge is over three times longer than the Waterford bypass). If the N.R is built to nearly the same spec as the W.B bridge and is three times its length, the cost will mostly likely increase in nearly the same ratio.

One billion is an unacceptable amount to spend on a single bypass that will only carry around 10,000 vehicles.

One billion would pay for the entire M20! It would pay for the SRR upgrades and Newlands Cross and could probably get most of the money for the N11 scheme in there too...

If the New Ross bypass had a 40,000 AADT, yes, go for the bridge. But I'm sorry a 52,000 AADT capacity bridge that will carry less than 10,000 on many days. Insanity... !!!!

I've also heard a 350 million euro figure mentioned before. Perhaps, in that case, it isn't so questionable. But if it does turn about to be one billion, you can forget about it!

Blunt-Guy

I think you have a few incorrect facts there:

1. Waterford Bypass Construction cost is circa €250million (excluding land, engineering, legal fees etc), of which the NRA are putting up 60% spread over the last 3 years which is approximately €50million per year, the remaining 40% is being put up by the Concessionaire Co. who will own, operate and maintain the road for 30 years from date of commencement of construction i.e. April 2006 to April 2036. The €600m you quote is what it is estimated the project would cost if the NRA were to fund build operate and maintain the entire 18km by pass for 30 years.

2. Waterford bridge is something like 450m from abutment to abutment, New Ross is something like 900m so its twice the length not 3 times

3. The New Ross bypass is going to be lumped together with the Enniscorthy bypass and the stretch from Clough to Enniscorthy which also includes bypasses of Camolin and Ferns making the whole contract soemthing like 48kms. It is also intended to procure the project as a PPP with 'Shadow tolling', meaning the NRA will like the Waterford bypasss only fund a percentage of the construction costs, the motorist will not pay any direct tolls to the private concessionaire company, these will be paid by the NRA/Government based on traffic counts.

4. It is currently anticipated that the AADT for the Waterford bypass will be something like 10,000 intially, so you could argue that it should also only be a single carriageway bridge.

5. A cost of 1 Billion euro for the 13km of dual carriageway including the 'Mega Bridge' would seem completely excessive, even for the 3 sections mentinoed above (i.e. 48km) it would seem excessive, especially when the 110km Waterford to Kilcullen motorway is estimated to be in the region of €1 billion. On its own the 13km New Ross Bypass should not cost more thatn €200 million if even that.

mysterious · 07-01-2009 4:19pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Blunt-Guy

I think you have a few incorrect facts there:

1. Waterford Bypass Construction cost is circa €250million (excluding land, engineering, legal fees etc), of which the NRA are putting up 60% spread over the last 3 years which is approximately €50million per year, the remaining 40% is being put up by the Concessionaire Co. who will own, operate and maintain the road for 30 years from date of commencement of construction i.e. April 2006 to April 2036. The €600m you quote is what it is estimated the project would cost if the NRA were to fund build operate and maintain the entire 18km by pass for 30 years.

2. Waterford bridge is something like 450m from abutment to abutment, New Ross is something like 900m so its twice the length not 3 times

3. The New Ross bypass is going to be lumped together with the Enniscorthy bypass and the stretch from Clough to Enniscorthy which also includes bypasses of Camolin and Ferns making the whole contract soemthing like 48kms. It is also intended to procure the project as a PPP with 'Shadow tolling', meaning the NRA will like the Waterford bypasss only fund a percentage of the construction costs, the motorist will not pay any direct tolls to the private concessionaire company, these will be paid by the NRA/Government based on traffic counts.

4. It is currently anticipated that the AADT for the Waterford bypass will be something like 10,000 intially, so you could argue that it should also only be a single carriageway bridge.

5. A cost of 1 Billion euro for the 13km of dual carriageway including the 'Mega Bridge' would seem completely excessive, even for the 3 sections mentinoed above (i.e. 48km) it would seem excessive, especially when the 110km Waterford to Kilcullen motorway is estimated to be in the region of €1 billion. On its own the 13km New Ross Bypass should not cost more thatn €200 million if even that.

No disrepect to your points,

But are you from New Ross. It's bloody excessive and thats the reality, especially given the current need of FAR more important schemes which should start before this over hyped bypass..........

BluntGuy · 07-01-2009 5:36pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Blunt-Guy

I think you have a few incorrect facts there:

1. Waterford Bypass Construction cost is circa €250million (excluding land, engineering, legal fees etc), of which the NRA are putting up 60% spread over the last 3 years which is approximately €50million per year, the remaining 40% is being put up by the Concessionaire Co. who will own, operate and maintain the road for 30 years from date of commencement of construction i.e. April 2006 to April 2036. The €600m you quote is what it is estimated the project would cost if the NRA were to fund build operate and maintain the entire 18km by pass for 30 years.

I am aware of this. But I can't compare the cost the Waterford Bypass is costing as PPP to the New Ross bypass, when I have know PPP figures available. I'm just using the actual costs.

2. Waterford bridge is something like 450m from abutment to abutment, New Ross is something like 900m so its twice the length not 3 times

I think 900m is just the total length of the main spans... I don't think the abutments have been taken into account. Unless you can proof me wrong...

4. It is currently anticipated that the AADT for the Waterford bypass will be something like 10,000 intially, so you could argue that it should also only be a single carriageway bridge.

Where did you hear this?

The AADT figures given in the Waterford Bypass EIS are well over 20,000 in most cases.

5. A cost of 1 Billion euro for the 13km of dual carriageway including the 'Mega Bridge' would seem completely excessive, even for the 3 sections mentinoed above (i.e. 48km) it would seem excessive, especially when the 110km Waterford to Kilcullen motorway is estimated to be in the region of €1 billion. On its own the 13km New Ross Bypass should not cost more than €200 million if even that.

What are you basing this on?

If the Waterford Bypass costed 600 million (without PPP) or as it is now: nearly 2 billion (with PPP over 30 years), what on Earth makes you think that the New Ross bypass won't cost over 200 million (whichever route is taken with regard to funding)?

The bridge could be 200 million by itself, possibly even more...

Road-Hog · 07-01-2009 5:38pm

mysterious wrote: »

No disrepect to your points,

But are you from New Ross. It's bloody excessive and thats the reality, especially given the current need of FAR more important schemes which should start before this over hyped bypass..........

Sorry to dissapoint you but I'm not from New Ross. Have you considered forming a 'Scrap New Ross Bypass' protest group, you could support it with petitions, an email campaign and organise a march to firstly Tramore House Regional Design Office followed by the head NRA office at St Martins House on Waterloo road.

I think it will take more than a couple of anonymous internet posters such as yourself and bluntguy to change the decision of the NRA.

BluntGuy · 07-01-2009 5:47pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Sorry to dissapoint you but I'm not from New Ross. Have you considered forming a 'Scrap New Ross Bypass' protest group, you could support it with petitions, an email campaign and organise a march to firstly Tramore House Regional Design Office followed by the head NRA office at St Martins House on Waterloo road.

I think it will take more than a couple of anonymous internet posters such as yourself and bluntguy to change the decision of the NRA.

It's not about scrapping the New Ross bypass. It just seems that - even for me (a road enthusiast) - this project is too excessive.

We'll know for sure when more concrete facts and figures are available, but all we can do at the moment is guess.

200 million is hopelessly optimistic I'm afraid. That is unless the current proposal is revised and scaled down to fit the needs of the actual route.

Lennoxschips · 07-01-2009 6:54pm

but this road can be highly dangerous with demonic late ferry-bound traffic driving too fast or fed-up tired ex-ferry traffic hurrying unduly towards their destination

So enforce the rules of the road. Dangerous driving is no excuse for building a dual carriageway.

L1011 · 07-01-2009 7:20pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

So enforce the rules of the road. Dangerous driving is no excuse for building a dual carriageway.

Along poor sections of road it is extremely difficult to maintain speed traps or observe for insane overtaking, etc - the space isn't there.

corktina · 07-01-2009 10:12pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

So enforce the rules of the road. Dangerous driving is no excuse for building a dual carriageway.

I cant Im not a Gard and anyhow many of these cars are UK registered or Eastern european and practically immune to the law

Lennoxschips · 08-01-2009 12:35am

MYOB wrote: »

Along poor sections of road it is extremely difficult to maintain speed traps or observe for insane overtaking, etc - the space isn't there.

There aren't that many sections of poor road left, most of it is very wide and straight.

And even so, it's very easy to put a speed trap on a small road.

I cant Im not a Gard and anyhow many of these cars are UK registered or Eastern european and practically immune to the law

The Guards can fine anybody they like.

corktina · 08-01-2009 9:46am

Lennoxschips wrote: »

There aren't that many sections of poor road left, most of it is very wide and straight.

And even so, it's very easy to put a speed trap on a small road.

The Guards can fine anybody they like.

if you say:rolleyes: so but getting them to PAY is another matter.

invincibleirish · 08-01-2009 1:53pm

corktina wrote: »

I cant Im not a Gard and anyhow many of these cars are UK registered or Eastern european and practically immune to the law

So you're saying that these sinister law breaking 'UK registered or Eastern european' cars/people won't break the law if a DC is built to Rosslare? Interesting logic.

corktina · 08-01-2009 3:26pm

no..i said the road is quite dangerous and wqould be safer as a dual carriageway.

Cian R · 09-01-2009 10:00pm

tbh it wouldnt be worth building it as single carriageway

Carawaystick · 10-01-2009 12:33am

Lennoxschips wrote: »

The Guards can fine anybody they like.

Only a court can legally fine anyone

mysterious · 10-01-2009 1:08am

Cian R wrote: »

tbh it wouldnt be worth building it as single carriageway

It's fine DC.

Back when the Nenagh S2 bypass was built it was outdated once opened, as the government wanted to build motorways to the cities.....

Tbh, I don't understand why in this country we build these spanking new S2 roads will all motorway charististics, such as flyovers, slipss and interchanges with the road been single lane, I really don't get it.

They could just blow it up as DC, if they are going to go to all the bother of making the road to such a high spec. Learn from the past people. They are spending millions now upgrading the Nenagh bypass into a DC, even given the fact this section of road is not even 10 years old. Heck it nearly is, jeesh time is flying :eek:

mysterious · 10-01-2009 1:12am

I said it before and I'll say it again

This scheme can wait 2 more years, I'm sick and tired of Irelands second and third and fourth cities still not connected by a proper motorway

Enough of this fannying about. Prioritise prioritise priortise in terms of which scheme needs to be built now. FFS.

New Ross = 7,000 ppl. lovely to get a new bypass
Cork = 190,000
Limerick =100,000
Galway = 70,000

These cities are still not connected by a proper road and it's 2009.

New Ross can wait.

Pisser Dignam · 10-01-2009 10:05am

mysterious wrote: »

I said it before and I'll say it again

This scheme can wait 2 more years, I'm sick and tired of Irelands second and third and fourth cities still not connected by a proper motorway

Enough of this fannying about. Prioritise prioritise priortise in terms of which scheme needs to be built now. FFS.

New Ross = 7,000 ppl. lovely to get a new bypass
Cork = 190,000
Limerick =100,000
Galway = 70,000

These cities are still not connected by a proper road and it's 2009.

New Ross can wait.

Don't hold your breath they're not even connected to Dublin yet, and that process took an economic miracle.

corktina · 10-01-2009 10:50am

mysterious wrote: »

I said it before and I'll say it again

This scheme can wait 2 more years, I'm sick and tired of Irelands second and third and fourth cities still not connected by a proper motorway

Enough of this fannying about. Prioritise prioritise priortise in terms of which scheme needs to be built now. FFS.

New Ross = 7,000 ppl. lovely to get a new bypass
Cork = 190,000
Limerick =100,000
Galway = 70,000

These cities are still not connected by a proper road and it's 2009.

The point you are missing is that the3 road is not primarily there for New Ross's sake.It is there as essential infrastructure to carry traffic from Cork Kerry and Waterford to the port at Rosslaire. It doesnt matter what the population of New Ross is

New Ross can wait.

The point you are missing is that the3 road is not primarily there for New Ross's sake.It is there as essential infrastructure to carry traffic from Cork Kerry and Waterford to the port at Rosslaire. It doesnt matter what the population of New Ross is

Lennoxschips · 10-01-2009 12:31pm

This is the size of a boat that you are building a motorway to, in a time that ferry traffic is in massive decline as well:

StenaLynxIILeavingRosslare1440on9-8-2003FromNormandy.jpg

StenaLynxIILeavingRosslare1440on9-8-2003FromNormandy.jpg

Way more people go to Cork airport, and Cork airport has a fine 2+1 road leading up to it which does the trick just fine. Rosslare shouldn't be any different.

MLM · 10-01-2009 2:06pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

This is the size of a boat that you are building a motorway to, in a time that ferry traffic is in massive decline as well:

Way more people go to Cork airport, and Cork airport has a fine 2+1 road leading up to it which does the trick just fine. Rosslare shouldn't be any different.

If only we could load 100+ articulated lorries onto an aeroplane. BTW did you take that photo from one of the Superferries?

corktina · 10-01-2009 2:57pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

This is the size of a boat that you are building a motorway to, in a time that ferry traffic is in massive decline as well:

Way more people go to Cork airport, and Cork airport has a fine 2+1 road leading up to it which does the trick just fine. Rosslare shouldn't be any different.

you have been in Holland too long my friend....in onof those cafés were you?

the SHIPS that sail from Rosslaire are a lot bigger than the fast ferry you picture....

corktina · 10-01-2009 2:59pm

ISLE OF iNISHMORE...iRISH FERRIES SHIP

corktina · 10-01-2009 3:01pm

Stena Europe..I think thats Stena current ship

then theres P&O's freight only roro and Irish ferries french sailings.....

Lennoxschips · 10-01-2009 3:23pm

Those aren't particularily large ships either. We're not talking about a port here with dozens of berths with container ships docked all day. We're talking about one ship at a time a couple of times a day. It's a quiet port.

The port of Puttgarden in Germany has full boats of that size sailing to Denmark every 40 minutes, and a single carriageway road suffices there.

Same for places like Roscoff, Zeebrugge and, of course, Fishguard.

Why we need a dual carriageway to such a quiet port is frankly beyond me. Taken over the whole day, there's probably more traffic on the Killimer-Tarbet ferry across the Shannon estuary.

Lennoxschips · 10-01-2009 3:31pm

If only we could load 100+ articulated lorries onto an aeroplane.

The traffic going up to Cork airport is more than to Rosslare, this is what I'm saying. And having been on the Cork airport road myself, I know it's a fine road that does the job great.

There are literally dozens of places in the country that should be up for a dual carriageway ahead of Rosslare.

It's funny that somebody can say something delustional like that the N25 to Rosslare is an important Euroroute linking Cork and Kerry with the continent of Europe, and then turn around and accuse me of being on drugs or something.

corktina · 10-01-2009 5:54pm

I apologise for inferring you are on drugs but , really, you have proved my point.There are at least 5 ferry services* operating out of Rosslare.They are VITAL to the SW of Irelands economy and that is why the Euroroute is important infrastructure and needs to be built to a good standard. I dont think thats delusional and I doubt if many others do either.

Oh and by the by, there are two routes from Rosslaire to the M4 ih Wales...via Pembroke and Fishguard.Maybe that explains why a dual carriageway is becessary here.

*two operate twice a day and one about 4 times...not sure of the frequency of the others

Amtmann · 10-01-2009 6:22pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

I think it will take more than a couple of anonymous internet posters such as yourself and bluntguy to change the decision of the NRA.

More's the pity. I bet several posters here know a lot more about roads than anyone in the NRA.

Lennoxschips · 10-01-2009 6:22pm

hey are VITAL to the SW of Irelands economy and that is why the Euroroute is important infrastructure and needs to be built to a good standard.

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying it isn't a vital route, just that the traffic numbers aren't up to a dualler. The road should be upgraded to high standard single carriageway, which much of the road between New Ross and Rosslare has been already. Like I said, one of these leaves Puttgarden in Germany every forty minutes and the single carriageway expressway is grand.

I've driven that road to Puttgarden a few times myself, no problems. And I have been the last off a ferry at the N25 a couple of times, no problems there either. We're inventing reasons to build oversized roads we don't need, when we need to prioritise other areas (like health and public transport, and where roads are concerned, Newlands Cross)

Road-Hog · 11-01-2009 12:31am

Furet wrote: »

More's the pity. I bet several posters here know a lot more about roads than anyone in the NRA.

I take it furet that you are being sarcastic......leave everything to the 'key-board /forum experts', the modern day equivalent of the 'know-it-all (usually with tash)' dublin taxi driver.....I wonder has 'blunt guy' ever been approached by the NRA ?

mysterious · 11-01-2009 12:56am

corktina wrote: »

The point you are missing is that the3 road is not primarily there for New Ross's sake.It is there as essential infrastructure to carry traffic from Cork Kerry and Waterford to the port at Rosslaire. It doesnt matter what the population of New Ross is

The point your missiing is I get the point, and you miss the bigger picture,about prioristizing. Rosslare is a small port, and not all traffic from New Ross is coming from the New Ross directiion towards Rosslare. I'm well aware of what traffic is using Rosslare port, and well aware of where most of the Traffic is heading when leaving Rosslare port. Not that much H.G.Vs would be travelling from Kerry and Cork to Rosslare I'm afraid. That arguement is flawed. I'd would say bar a few hundred travellers a day would come from the southwest and use Rosslare by crossing over the water, most would use plane or go via Cork port or Even Dublin Port.

Cork has it's own lift on lift off, roll on roll off traffic to connect with the continent. Your point is overly exaggerated. Not many Kerry commuter's are going to opt to use Rosslare over Cork also for instance as I said above.

Traffic out of Rosslare is at peak 7,000 a day, and that's including local traffic that uses the N25 also. in winter traffic plummets to 5,000 a day. These figures are not huge.
Traffic between New Ross and Wexford is even lower, as the N30 branches off towards the N11.

Not all this "New Ross through" traffic would even be coming from from this point to Rosslare, given that peak summer flows barely reach 7,000 a day.

I made a specific point, and is only one of many. Schemes like the M20 has got to go ahead first and foremost, before they even dream of getting this over bloated bypass of New Ross on the map.

The New Ross bypass is lovely even, but it going to wait until, bigger towns and bigger roads are bypassed first. Then it will all be lovely. Right now in the current economic climate, Luxury's like the New Ross Bypass can wait.

Amtmann · 11-01-2009 1:22am

Road-Hog wrote: »

I take it furet that you are being sarcastic......leave everything to the 'key-board /forum experts', the modern day equivalent of the 'know-it-all (usually with tash)' dublin taxi driver.....I wonder has 'blunt guy' ever been approached by the NRA ?

Are you seriously saying the NRA know how to do roads properly? Three words for you: motorway service areas.

Drum roll please...

The NRA board is, in theory, the choice of the Irish people. In reality, its composition would make Jo Stalin blush. It is stuffed with political appointees.

Last week I decided to find out a bit about the NRA directors. Not an easy task.

First, I turned to the NRA annual report. And there they were. Pictures of them all.

And their names too.

And that was it.

Not a syllable of information on their education, jobs, expertise or their pedigrees.

Not a whisper about their pay, which turned out to be €9,000 a year.

So I rang the NRA to ask about the board. The first reaction was stunning. "We have no public record of their backgrounds." A press officer told me that it was a matter for the Department of Transport. For all the NRA knew or cared, its own directors could have escaped from Mountjoy Jail last week.

Happily, a helpful NRA employee told me a bit about a few of them -- from memory.

Chairman Peter Malone ticks a few appropriate boxes. He is a well-known hotelier -- not an engineer -- and was the boss of Jurys; but Peter is also a favourite of politicians. Apart from being parachuted into the NRA chair by ministerial patronage, he has served as chairman of semi-state Bord na Mona, was a member of the review body on higher public sector remuneration and chairs property company, CBRE Gunne.

What is interesting about CBRE Gunne is that they gave Fianna Fail generous donations in 2004 and 2005. The NRA annual report tells you none of this.

Nor does it tell you anything about Peter's fellow-director, Connie Ni Fhatharta. An interesting woman, Connie. Of most interest is that she is a Fianna Fail councillor in Galway and a defeated Seanad candidate. Nothing wrong with that. Just that we ought to know.

Nor does it tell you anything about Jenny Kent. By all accounts, Mrs Kent is an able woman. She comes from a topical place; currently she is president of the Laois Chamber of Commerce.

"Ahem," I hear you mutter. "Laois, eh? A protegee of Brian Cowen?"

Not so. Jenny is her own woman. But a few inquiries revealed that Jenny's husband is an Irish Farmers Association bigwig , a disciple of Tom Parlon -- the former Progressive Democrat minister from the same Laois constituency. The PDs too are entitled to their share of the spoils.

Nor does the annual report breathe a word about director Raymond Potterton. A little digging reveals that Potterton was a business partner of Loman Dempsey, brother of none other than cabinet minister Noel Dempsey.

You want to know more?

Take a look at board member David Holden. A former Bank of Ireland spinner, Mr Holden is well qualified to advise the NRA about how to impose hidden charges on the motorist. But there is more than hidden charges to Mr Holden. He was a great friend and supporter of the late Fianna Fail minister Seamus Brennan, who appointed him to the board. David even delivered a eulogy at Seamus's funeral.

Plenty of political pedigree there. Not to mention NRA director and Thurles councillor Frances Boyle, whose father was a Fianna Failer and herself was regarded as a Progressive Democrat/government sympathiser -- although elected as an independent. Frances runs a shop in Thurles.

Even NRA director Eimear McAuliffe, a nurse by profession, loyally flew the Fianna Fail flag as a candidate at the last local elections.

These are the people presiding over the farce that is the M50 this weekend. Political appointees are propping up a monstrous monopoly. A Fianna Fail nurse, a Fianna Fail county councillor, an auctioneer, a public relations spiv, a farmer and a shopkeeper all find themselves running Ireland's roads. They have one thing in common: political connections.

As I ended my board search I hit a major disappointment. Up popped a real live practitioner, a man who actually knows a bit about roads. How did he get on the board?

Wexford County Manager Eddie Breen, one of the finest public servants it has been my pleasure to encounter, is a director. How a man of such independence and expertise slipped through the political Stalinist test, it is difficult to fathom. But Eddie made it.

There should be an inquiry.

The NRA needs more directors like Eddie. The board is patently ill-equipped to deal with the current fiasco at the toll bridge.

The State monopoly has imposed a system of tags that would test Job's patience, a choice of charges that would challenge Einstein's intelligence, a penal fees structure that makes NTR look like Santa Claus, a work rate that would make Dublin Airport Authority seem dynamic. (It will take eight weeks to dismantle the barriers. Has the NRA never heard of a bulldozer?) And worst of all, the NRA has cooked up a punitive system of enforcement that would embarrass the politburo in old Albania.

Who will be the first to go to jail for failing to pay the €3 fee?

- Shane Ross

http://www.independent.ie/business/m50-directors-unmasked-1466341.html

You seem very eagre to defend the NRA...for an anonymous keyboard type, that is.

BluntGuy · 11-01-2009 2:22am

Road-Hog wrote: »

I take it furet that you are being sarcastic......leave everything to the 'key-board /forum experts', the modern day equivalent of the 'know-it-all (usually with tash)' dublin taxi driver.....I wonder has 'blunt guy' ever been approached by the NRA ?

I take it Road-Hog that you're being sarcastic...

I'm simply a road enthusiast, I know a lot about roads but I never once claimed to be able to run a Road Authority. However, I would presume the people that work for the NRA are qualified to undertake the task.

Unfortunately, quite simply put, they are making incorrect decisions left, right and centre that are obvious for everybody to see. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't take much intelligence to figure out that a massive over-sized bypass is not needed for a town of 7000 people, and even if it is deemed to be necessary, there are other more urgent projects that need to be dealt with first.

And then we had the whole "will we, won't we" with the MSAs. Even some of the MSA location choices reflect poor-decision making (the northern M9 one, the M6 MSA tacked onto a junction, the M8 Cashel MSA). We also had the stupidity regarding the whole motorway redesignation fiasco where roads opened with green signage that had to be ripped down within months. Then the god-awful 2+1 roads. The list goes on...

And so what if I'm an anonymous poster on an internet forum. Does that mean what I'm saying is wrong? If the NRA is making bad decisions I'm entitled to say it. I'm entitled to e-mail them and ask why they're making bad decisions. I shouldn't have to post my CV and get hired by the authority to stop them making these decisions and neither should I have to organise a protest or an online campaign...

Reason?

Because they should be doing it correctly in the first place...

Anyway, I will presume your silly: arrogant, 'know-it-all' forum posters comment wasn't directed at me.

Chris_533976 · 11-01-2009 11:14am

Add to the fact that they cant really join up motorways without ****ing it up

BluntGuy · 11-01-2009 11:49am

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Add to the fact that they cant really join up motorways without ****ing it up

Mention junction to the NRA and only one word will come to mind:

Roundabout...

Also, interesting article. However it comes as no great surprise that the NRA board is mostly made up of FF arse-lickers rather than people who actually know anything about roads (although I'm sure the Indo secretly applauds it.)

I think I'll e-mail the NRA on this. I'm simply dying to know what qualifications/qualities these wonderful people have that make them suitable for the job.

Go-Ahead for New Ross Bypass

Comments