No more favours

TheNog · 07-01-2009 04:26PM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Hobart wrote: »

I'm not a Guard, although I do have some interaction with them on a day to day basis, so a couple of stupid questions for a start.

Is a mobile phone a part of your standard equipment?

There are state mobiles available in some stations but not all.

Hobart wrote: »

Is a stab vest a part of your standard equipment?

Yes

Hobart wrote: »

No smartness intended, but did you not expect this as part and parcel of your job placement?

Yes I did but I was replying to a poster who said it would be better to have gardai live locally to where they work rather than miles away.

Hobart wrote: »

With the utmost respect, and without prejudice to you, have you tried reporting these offences to your local Guards? I suspect not. (and I apologise if I am to be corrected) . But my experience of small crimes, such as those detailed above by you, have been treated, albeit with the utmost curiosity by Guards, with utter indifference by them. I can actually appreciate why, but I just don't understand it.

Actually I have but only did when I found out about my neighbour having the same problems. I thought at first that I was just unlucky with the tyres and was just waiting to catch the person or people who were breaking my fence and car aerial.

Hobart wrote: »

No person should have this type of abuse because of the job they do, in fact, I believe that those in the ES should be afforded the protection/respect of their neighbors/locals when at home.

+1 to that but it does happen. Fortunately the damage to my property has not been expensive but I have heard of one member's car sitting on 4 blocks when she got up one morning.

Ruen · 07-01-2009 05:50PM

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I see 1 person is opposed to blue flu, well I wonder how long he would last being told to put up and shut up with no right to strike. I think some people fought for that at some point in history and isnt there a document that mentions it?

I dont want to go completely off topic and start a debate here about Gardai not being allowed to strike but I'll answer Karlitosway by saying that there is a legitimate reason why certain arms of the state are precluded from being allowed to strike and I do believe it's important that it stays that way.

TheNog · 07-01-2009 06:02PM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Ruen wrote: »

I dont want to go completely off topic and start a debate here about Gardai not being allowed to strike but I'll answer Karlitosway by saying that there is a legitimate reason why certain arms of the state are precluded from being allowed to strike and I do believe it's important that it stays that way.

I think we can all agree with that but if the AGS is so important then government should treat it as such. Granted since Facthna Murphy took over I think the AGS is taking a more radical approach to policing than ever before with the implementation of stab vest, spray, semi rigid cuffs, anpr, realignment of divisions etc.

There is still alot to do but Facthna has inherited the problems from this government and previous commissioners

donvito99 · 07-01-2009 06:25PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

This may be Ireland, but things like proper facilities and equipment can actually happen. Yes, it is expensive, but why wasn't it done in the boom years! A traditional Commisioner? IMO, Gardai should demand better equipment and let the public and media know about it. The only category of facilities that I have heard of on National news and media (excl. Garda Review) has been with regards to Stations, ie. Wexford. If it takes localised budgets eg. like the UK, where forces are given a budget etc and it is spent on what they want and what suits their area then so be it.

The Gardai have gone for too long without basic equipment, from what has been posted on this thread so far has shown that the conditions Gardai work in is unacceptable, and to say that 'this is Ireland, things never get done' is bull, we are not a third world country, but are Police force is funded like a third world country.

Although I am glad that Facthna Murphy is taking leadership and finally steering AGS in the right direction.

Eru · 07-01-2009 11:58PM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

salonfire wrote: »

I Years ago, the local gardai lived in the community, got involved in football, drank in local pubs, kids went to local school, etc

Lets be honest here and think about this one.

A, Do you think the locals in Sheriff Street, Oriel Street, Summerhill and Neilstown (Dublin only as thats where I work) would play a sport with me and not try to gain an advantage or information through this?

B, Do you think the locals would not harass me about work while I had my well earned pint? Or more importantly, that the local scum wouldnt use this great oppertunity to get some revenge on unarmed, unequiped and slightly merry Karlitosway?

C, Do you honestly believe that my childs school being common knowledge to the criminals Im arresting is not a serious threat to his / her safety? Or that this information alone would not cause my family personal problems?

D, Do you honestly think my house in 123 Sheriff Street or Summerhill Parade would still have windows or in fact still be standing when I came home from work? That my wife and children would be left to pursue their lives in this community while enjoying the friendship of our next door neighbour, the drug dealer and his prostitute heroin addicted wife?

While were at it and as I said to the local FG TD at the last election, whos going to provide these houses? Yep I could sell my house and move into a smaller house but would the taxpayer be happy to help me buy a house in Blackrock or Foxrock? Cause I tell you, no Garda is getting a mortgage for those addresses. Besides, just how many rights should Gardai and their families not have? Im not having a go at you or your post just explaining the reality of policing. There was a time local Gardai could live and work in the same place and theres still places like that but having Gardai stationed where they grew up would never work in my opinion.

As for striking, well I think its important that my life isnt messed with by other people striking but there you go. I agree that striking is a severe action especially for es workers but by refusing us the right to do so is removing a fundemental right of citizens. Its highly unlikely that it would ever be enacted anyway much like nurses dont do full walk outs.

Whitewater-AGS · 08-01-2009 12:47PM

+1

Karlitosway, good point and well made.

Paulzx · 08-01-2009 02:16PM

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

As for striking, well I think its important that my life isnt messed with by other people striking but there you go. I agree that striking is a severe action especially for es workers but by refusing us the right to do so is removing a fundemental right of citizens. Its highly unlikely that it would ever be enacted anyway much like nurses dont do full walk outs.

AGS will never get the right to strike. As an organisation that legally cannot strike you are in a postion that government would love to have plenty of other workers in. This status quo will never change.

The fire services have the right to strike and have done so. The state would love to be able to remove this from us but cannot.

The use of strike action is something that cannot be taken lightly and must be seriously considered before being used.

If you go on strike it should be all out full strike. Partial strikes dont work. If you feel that strongly about an issue you should put your money where your mouth is. Be willing to be without wages for as long as it takes. Any of the various groups that have gone on partial actions over the last while have lost.

The last strike in DFB was in 1988 and firemen were outside the gates unpaid for 6 weeks. They were not striking over wages but on issues relating to manning levels and downgrading of the service to the public. For this they risked their own financial health with a full out strike.

In 1999 a strike was averted at the last hour over issues again not related to pay.

A strike is something that should never be threatened lightly. There must be valid reason and the will to back up the threat must be there

08-01-2009 02:27PM

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Lets be honest here and think about this one.

A, Do you think the locals in Sheriff Street, Oriel Street, Summerhill and Neilstown (Dublin only as thats where I work) would play a sport with me and not try to gain an advantage or information through this?

B, Do you think the locals would not harass me about work while I had my well earned pint? Or more importantly, that the local scum wouldnt use this great oppertunity to get some revenge on unarmed, unequiped and slightly merry Karlitosway?

C, Do you honestly believe that my childs school being common knowledge to the criminals Im arresting is not a serious threat to his / her safety? Or that this information alone would not cause my family personal problems?

D, Do you honestly think my house in 123 Sheriff Street or Summerhill Parade would still have windows or in fact still be standing when I came home from work? That my wife and children would be left to pursue their lives in this community while enjoying the friendship of our next door neighbour, the drug dealer and his prostitute heroin addicted wife?

While were at it and as I said to the local FG TD at the last election, whos going to provide these houses? Yep I could sell my house and move into a smaller house but would the taxpayer be happy to help me buy a house in Blackrock or Foxrock? Cause I tell you, no Garda is getting a mortgage for those addresses. Besides, just how many rights should Gardai and their families not have? Im not having a go at you or your post just explaining the reality of policing. There was a time local Gardai could live and work in the same place and theres still places like that but having Gardai stationed where they grew up would never work in my opinion.

As for striking, well I think its important that my life isnt messed with by other people striking but there you go. I agree that striking is a severe action especially for es workers but by refusing us the right to do so is removing a fundemental right of citizens. Its highly unlikely that it would ever be enacted anyway much like nurses dont do full walk outs.

I wasn't having a go and of course I know that it is impossible for gardai to live in those areas.

I was just highlighting the changing nature of the garda/community relationship in my area in West Donegal and I persume other rural areas throughout the country. Thats all.

I'm not bothered either way as I know that if I need the gardai, I can expect a professional response, no matter who the guard is

djtechnics1210 · 08-01-2009 10:38PM

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

Paulzx wrote: »

AGS will never get the right to strike. As an organisation that legally cannot strike you are in a postion that government would love to have plenty of other workers in. This status quo will never change.

The fire services have the right to strike and have done so. The state would love to be able to remove this from us but cannot.

The use of strike action is something that cannot be taken lightly and must be seriously considered before being used.

If you go on strike it should be all out full strike. Partial strikes dont work. If you feel that strongly about an issue you should put your money where your mouth is. Be willing to be without wages for as long as it takes. Any of the various groups that have gone on partial actions over the last while have lost.

The last strike in DFB was in 1988 and firemen were outside the gates unpaid for 6 weeks. They were not striking over wages but on issues relating to manning levels and downgrading of the service to the public. For this they risked their own financial health with a full out strike.

In 1999 a strike was averted at the last hour over issues again not related to pay.

A strike is something that should never be threatened lightly. There must be valid reason and the will to back up the threat must be there

We can go sick though

arybvtcw0eolkf · 09-01-2009 11:15AM

TheNog wrote: »

I dont think there is any need for a blue flu at this point in time. Our backs are not totally against the wall. The last blue flu was the result of years of total neglect and this neglect also included pay.

If Gardai were to stop using their own equipment for work who comes out the worst of it?

Gardai will because we rely on our equipment to be safe and stay safe. At the end of every shift I would like to go home to my kids but if Im in a bad situation and my radio doesnt work .... well you guess the rest

Also for people outside of the job it was reported on December's Review mag that on average 2 Gardai were assaulted every day in 2008.

We've the same problem in the Defence Forces, esp. when we're going oversea's.

Best thing to do is provide for your own comforts and safety, any fool and be uncomfortable.

But you should continue to raise concern's over poor equipment or equipment you think would be better suited to the job.

We call it 'Gucci Gear'.

As for the public not caring, I'd say thats true for the majority of the public - why should they care?.

Seriously, most people are too self centered and selfish to care about anyone but themselves.

I remember when that policeman was shot on Ossary Road, people were more concerned at the amount of traffic disruption caused to them and blaimed in it the guards saying if it was a member of the public not half as much effort would have been put into catching those who done it.

Personally for shooting a member of AGS, Defence Forces, Prison service or Ambulance/Fire services I think the place should be turned upside down. But ordinary members of the public couldn't care less.

cushtac · 09-01-2009 11:58AM

Ruen wrote: »

There will always be better equipment to be had so the Gardai will have to work with what they've got at the time as opposed to striking illegally

If that mentality was accepted by Gardaí there would be no vests or ASPs on issue. As it stands the Gardaí are about 10 years behind the UK in terms of equipment & members are being injured as a result.

There's a difference between personal safety & personal gain.

Trojan911 · 09-01-2009 12:11PM

Mairt wrote: »

Seriously, most people are too self centered and selfish to care about anyone but themselves.

I remember when that policeman was shot on Ossary Road, people were more concerned at the amount of traffic disruption caused to them and blaimed in it the guards saying if it was a member of the public not half as much effort would have been put into catching those who done it.

I'd believe that. I also remember a case in South East London some years back when an officer was shot in the leg during an armed raid. (I wasn't present as I was Central, however the word got back to us via an officer who was there).

Would you believe this? A member of the public made a complaint about the shot officer swearing, because he cried out in pain " Oh f**k, my leg". Some peoples mentality just beggars belief.

deadwood · 09-01-2009 02:16PM

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

Trojan911 wrote: »

Would you believe this? A member of the public made a complaint about the shot officer swearing, because he cried out in pain " Oh f**k, my leg".

They were right. Whinging cops. What a wuss. Probably went to hospital too.

Trojan911 · 09-01-2009 02:56PM

deadwood wrote: »

Whinging cops.

Hmmmmmmmmm.... What's this thread about again? Oh ya, no more favours... :pac: We are doomed.....

brown bear · 09-01-2009 04:57PM

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

Its very simple, turn the personal phones off and it will all grind to a halt

djtechnics1210 · 09-01-2009 05:14PM

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

brown bear wrote: »

Its very simple, turn the personal phones off and it will all grind to a halt

And hide the keys for the patrol cars:D

yayamark · 09-01-2009 05:14PM

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

brown bear wrote: »

Its very simple, turn the personal phones off and it will all grind to a halt

I just dont answer Private Number unless im "available " for overtime.

Or just do what a couple of member did in my station claimed 3 hrs ot when they were rang off duty. Fairly quickly a letter from the super came down informing everyone not to ring off duty members.

Overtime will learn em!

FGR · 10-01-2009 03:48AM

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

And hide the keys for the patrol cars:D

Like the time the early crew couldn't find the keys to the patrol car - having to call out to the driver's home address 50 miles outside of the division in the branch car as he had his phone switched off.

Turned out someone put the keys of a Sec 41 on a hanger which rested over the patrol car keys. All laughs ensued..especially from the Sergeants

.

Sully · 11-01-2009 04:38PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Moaner: "Sure don't ye have the best number plate recognition system on the market? What are ya on about, with your 07 D cars!" :P

I think if the situation is as bad as being made out then a bit of blue flu wouldnt go astray but in the current times best of luck getting FF listening to you. You guys should have excellent equipment that helps you do your job and if your using sub standard faulty equipment then its time to stand up and make yourselves heard.

Saying that, you should probably work with what you have to the best of your ability. So, I chose both options as really without using them there is no force.

Eru · 11-01-2009 07:44PM

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Personally now I would not be in favour of a blue flu. You cant get blood from a stone and thats the reality now however when (if) the country gets back up and running we need to make sure that we dont simple let the good days go by without getting something out of it.

Bren1609 · 12-01-2009 03:28PM

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

As a reserve I see members using their own equipment and mobiles all the time. I think it's totally unacceptable for members to be expected to use personal items performing day to day duties. No other profession would be expected to use their own mobile, car or whatever the case may be and not be reimbursed for it. What makes it even worse is that these are basic items such as telephones and equipment which such be part of operational equipment.

I'm surprised that the GRA hasnt addressed this, if it was any other union representing its members this wouldnt even be an issue.

djtechnics1210 · 12-01-2009 04:40PM

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

Bren1609 wrote: »

As a reserve I see members using their own equipment and mobiles all the time. I think it's totally unacceptable for members to be expected to use personal items performing day to day duties. No other profession would be expected to use their own mobile, car or whatever the case may be and not be reimbursed for it. What makes it even worse is that these are basic items such as telephones and equipment which such be part of operational equipment.

I'm surprised that the GRA hasnt addressed this, if it was any other union representing its members this wouldnt even be an issue.

GRA, i see them taking money out of my pay every week, but what do they actually do??????

must be some sort of charity

deadwood · 12-01-2009 06:26PM

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

GRA, i see them taking money out of my pay every week, but what do they actually do?????? must be some sort of charity

Those hotels in Bundoran won't pay for themselves!

No more favours

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