No more favours

Eru

Looking back at the various threads here I think theres two things that are evident;

A, Gardai are buying their own equipment, using their personal items for work and leaving themselves open to prosecution both civil and criminal for the sake of the government and Garda management.

B, The public dont care what problems were encountering. They want us to solve every crime while staying within the speed limit, parking in legal spaces and using no equipment at all.

So Im giving the choice here, seperate answers for civilians, other police and Gardai.

Edit: Have to bold this one, guys you cant be all three!

eroo

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Looking back at the various threads here I think theres two things that are evident;

A, Gardai are buying their own equipment, using their personal items for work and leaving themselves open to prosecution both civil and criminal for the sake of the government and Garda management.

B, The public dont care what problems were encountering. They want us to solve every crime while staying within the speed limit, parking in legal spaces and using no equipment at all.

So Im giving the choice here, seperate answers for civilians, other police and Gardai.

Whats the question?:o

Fajitas!

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

I'm more of a part time lurker in here, so I'm not 100% sure what this thread is refering to... but...

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

B, The public dont care what problems were encountering.

I wouldn't agree with that. I know and accept that there are plenty of problems. I can imagine it's also an incredibly stressful job, plenty of paperwork along with actually being out and about.

You are, however, putting yourself in the public domain, heavy criticism is a part of that, no matter what sector you're in - Entertainment to law enforcement.

Eru

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

eroo wrote: »

Whats the question?:o

Wait more than 30 seconds git!

Fajitas!

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Aha! There's the poll!

eroo

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Wait more than 30 seconds git!

Fajitas!

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Right, I've replied to the poll up there, but tbh, I don't think it covers it for civilians - obviously the Gardai should have the best equipment availible for the job. Not always an easy task. And just as obviously, they Gardai shouldn't be shelling out for the gear themselves - It's up to the police force to do that... But it's up to the government to do that, and that's as much up for civilians to demand as it is An Gardai to demand.

Is it common a Garda would buy his own equipment?

eroo

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

I voted for do the best with what they have because, in all, if you stop using your own equipment. .you are going out there worse off than before. Obviously, I wish the Gardai would get proper funding, equipment and Govt support but at this fragile time, downing your equipment and making demands probably wont yield much unfortunately.

In the RDF we are expected to buy our own surplus equipment. That's fine with me, we are an underfunded voluntary organisation. However, a full-time police organisation should not depend on it's members to fork out for standard police issue kit. So yes I want the Gardai to get proper equipment, but I'd be worried for their safety if they operated without there personal equipment, and unfortunately at a time where our Govt is borrowing 45m euro a day it might not be the best time to ask for extra investment(even though it is needed badly) as AGS probably wont get it.

deadwood

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

Fajitas! wrote: »

Aha! There's the poll!

Ruen

I believe that Gardai should be provided with the best equipment and training available.
I am shocked to see that blue flu is even an option, threatening the security of the state for personal gain yet again, would only serve to undermine the publics confidence in An Garda Siochana, it is disgusting and shows the complete lack of respect some Gardai still have for their duties and responsibilities.

CharlieCroker

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

Ruen wrote: »

threatening the security of the state for personal gain.

Personal gain? sorry for being greedy but not nice if some nutter is coming at you with a needle or even if your just searching an addict and your not wearing stab gloves!!!!

pvt.joker

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Personal gain? sorry for being greedy but not nice if some nutter is coming at you with a needle or even if your just searching an addict and your not wearing stab gloves!!!!

Now now Charlie your just being greedy, sure weren't you supplied with grand latex sanitary gloves :pac::D

Ruen

There will always be better equipment to be had so the Gardai will have to work with what they've got at the time as opposed to striking illegally

CharlieCroker

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

pvt.joker wrote: »

Now now Charlie your just being greedy, sure weren't you supplied with grand latex sanitary gloves :pac::D

:D:D
The red will show up nicely against the blue of the glove!!!!

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

I dont think there is any need for a blue flu at this point in time. Our backs are not totally against the wall. The last blue flu was the result of years of total neglect and this neglect also included pay.

If Gardai were to stop using their own equipment for work who comes out the worst of it?

Gardai will because we rely on our equipment to be safe and stay safe. At the end of every shift I would like to go home to my kids but if Im in a bad situation and my radio doesnt work .... well you guess the rest

Also for people outside of the job it was reported on December's Review mag that on average 2 Gardai were assaulted every day in 2008.

Thoie

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

A, Gardai are buying their own equipment, using their personal items for work and leaving themselves open to prosecution both civil and criminal for the sake of the government and Garda management.

Sorry, I haven't read all the other threads, but what kind of personal items/equipment are we talking about here? Stab gloves have been mentioned in this thread, what other stuff would gardai regularly buy for themselves?

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

- Using our own mobile phones to call the station (using our own money) when the radios dont work and/or not secure,
- anti stab gloves,
- handcuffs (spare ones),
- torches,
- boots,
- laptops (we have 1 computer between 4 of us on my unit for files),
- windscreen wash for the patrol car (they wont fork out €2 for it and we cant see out the window) and
- I have recently heard of guards in one station buying their own paper for files, charge sheets etc cos there is a shortage. And thats a station in Dublin (actually Karlitos local station)

Did I miss anything?

Paulzx

The situation with Gardai using their own mobile phones at cost to themselves for official Garda business is always something that has amazed me.It seems to be a practice that has allowed to become a normal part of procedure due to the inability of the state to provide an adequate communications syatem. My opinion, looking from the outside, is that the willingness of Gardai to use their own phone has in fact helped perpetuate the inadequate radio syatem available to you.

By creating an unofficial communications system you have removed responsibility from the authorities to provide you with a functioning official one. This is not a criticism of the Garda on the ground who has no other way of contacting his station. I understand the need to call for assistance etc. in a hurry.

I deal with Gardai constantly in work and every scene i attend with them they are using their own phones to ring the station etc. As a body you should not use your phones for comms unless its absolutely vital. Ringing the station for run of the mill policing queries should stop. If it means you can't get info for traffic stops etc. so be it.

When the whole system falls down maybe your management will finally sit up and take notice.

What i propose is probably too simplistic and will never happen but i think the situation as it stands will continue unless you make some sort of stand.

We have problems with our radio comms but they definetly seem to function much smoother than the Gardai. It is a very rare situation where you will see a DFB member using his own phone to contact our control as there is generally no need.

Eru

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

TheNog wrote: »

- Using our own mobile phones to call the station (using our own money) when the radios dont work and/or not secure,
- anti stab gloves,
- handcuffs (spare ones),
- torches,
- boots,
- laptops (we have 1 computer between 4 of us on my unit for files),
- windscreen wash for the patrol car (they wont fork out €2 for it and we cant see out the window) and
- I have recently heard of guards in one station buying their own paper for files, charge sheets etc cos there is a shortage. And thats a station in Dublin (actually Karlitos local station)

Did I miss anything?

Indeed, were currently using our own laptops or home PC's to do up files and print them as the station has no longer got a working word machine or printer. My office no longer has a working pulse machine and we were never issued a pulse printer in the first place. Also dont forget the minor little things that while not essential to everyone are damn handy such as a uv light to check documents, batteries for your torch and even stationary for gods sake.

I see 1 person is opposed to blue flu, well I wonder how long he would last being told to put up and shut up with no right to strike. I think some people fought for that at some point in history and isnt there a document that mentions it?

djtechnics1210

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

I feel a dose of flu coming on:D

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

I am closing this thread for a few minutes cos a problem has just been pointed out to me so I need to fix it.

Some users will be taking a short holiday from this forum when Im finished

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Ok thread back open again.

It appears three posters chose multiple choices in the poll and so mispresenting the poll figures. The options taken by these posters were total polar opposites so the banning stick is out.

Winston82
Oeb
Tosh65

are all taking a 1 week holiday from us.

Heres hoping we dont get a postcard.

Thanks for your patience

Nog

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

TheNog wrote: »

Ok thread back open again.

It appears three posters chose multiple choices in the poll and so mispresenting the poll figures. The options taken by these posters were total polar opposites so the banning stick is out.

Winston82
Oeb
Tosh65

are all taking a 1 week holiday from us.

Heres hoping we dont get a postcard.

Thanks for your patience

Nog

Oeb has been unbanned and his choices restored after giving a reasonable
explanation.

Damned him and his persuasive way!!! :pac:

The others still stand

parsi

Paulzx wrote: »

The situation with Gardai using their own mobile phones at cost to themselves for official Garda business is always something that has amazed me.It seems to be a practice that has allowed to become a normal part of procedure due to the inability of the state to provide an adequate communications syatem. My opinion, looking from the outside, is that the willingness of Gardai to use their own phone has in fact helped perpetuate the inadequate radio syatem available to you.

By creating an unofficial communications system you have removed responsibility from the authorities to provide you with a functioning official one. This is not a criticism of the Garda on the ground who has no other way of contacting his station. I understand the need to call for assistance etc. in a hurry.

I deal with Gardai constantly in work and every scene i attend with them they are using their own phones to ring the station etc. As a body you should not use your phones for comms unless its absolutely vital. Ringing the station for run of the mill policing queries should stop. If it means you can't get info for traffic stops etc. so be it.

When the whole system falls down maybe your management will finally sit up and take notice.

I agree with your reasoning.

However if someone has a strong work ethic then they are unlikely to be able to just "put-up" with what they have - the top-brass do seem to work in the knowledge that if there is a problem it's Garda Joe who'll get dumped on.

Another issue is merging what the public wants with what the public wants to pay. These are fairly divergent.

oeb

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

TheNog wrote: »

Oeb has been unbanned and his choices restored after giving a reasonable
explanation.

Damned him and his persuasive way!!! :pac:

The others still stand

I suppose if it raises questions, it might be best if I explain my reasoning to anyone else here who might be wondering.

I chose the option "(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment" as my main choice, because it is absolutly insane that you should have to be out of pocket for carrying out your normal work duties. I know what you do is not 'Just a job' but I find it difficult to think of anyone, in any other industry who has to do anything like this. Your employer (the government in your case) is required to provide you with the equipment you need to carry out your job. (Unless of course it is specified somewhere in your contracts that you have to use your own stuff, but I find that unlikely).

I also choose the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" option, because it is true. If you do it, you are out of pocket, you may get in trouble for useing sub-standard or inappropriate equipment. Of course if you don't, you get Irelands vast army of whiners complaining that you are not doing your job properly and going on about how you are trying to hold the country to ransom. We both know that's untrue, but we both know it would be said anyway.

(The poll was multi-choice when I posted last night, hence how I selected multiple options).

kerry4sam

(Civilian) Gardai should stop using / buying personal items and demand proper equipment

Good thread Karlitosway ... I think it’s one aspect of the job that doesn’t get mentioned (clearly less often that it should be). I think it’s good to highlight the differing circumstances the gardai enocunter but as to whether anything will be done about this, I honestly doubt. If Gardaì were finding themselves buying their own necessary equipment during the so-called boom-times, I don’t see how anything will be done now that the powers that be are tightening the strings even further.

Now as for the public not caring about the problems Gardaì encounter - I do believe that is the case for some, but not all. I believe that if their were a greater awareness about the work that the Gardaì do and more community-orientated work, people might feel all the more connected. For some people down my neck of the woods, all they care about if just knowing the Gardaì are actually there and that's enough for them.

Paulzx

TheNog wrote: »

Oeb has been unbanned and his choices restored after giving a reasonable
explanation.

Jesus. The mods round here are turning into softees. Since when was a reasonable explanation enough for an unbanning!!!:)

Lets all run amok, we've a cushy mod:eek:

kerry4sam

kerry4sam wrote: »

Now as for the public not caring about the problems Gardaì encounter - I do
believe that is the case for some, but not all. I believe that if their were a greater awareness about the work that the Gardaì do and more community-orientated work, people might feel all the more connected. For some people down my neck of the woods, all they care about if just knowing the Gardaì are actually there and that's enough for them.

I feel there is a widening gap between gardai and the public

Years ago, the local gardai lived in the community, got involved in football, drank in local pubs, kids went to local school, etc

People knew the local gardai, and vice versa and there was a friendly, open relationship for the most part

Now I don't know who the local gardai are, where they come from, etc, bar one who has been there years and lives locally.

Most of the new faces in the fast few years commute from 20/30 miles away and go back again in the evenings.

I was stopped at a checkpoint recently and asked the garda where he was based at, making small talk, etc and he told me that it was no concern of mine!! WTF!

On topic, all you have to observe is the run down shacks some garda stations are to know that it must be chaos inside

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Paulzx wrote: »

Jesus. The mods round here are turning into softees. Since when was a reasonable explanation enough for an unbanning!!!:)

Lets all run amok, we've a cushy mod:eek:

I know but Oeb is so dreamy. He clicks his fingers and I like, go all gooey and stuff :pac:

*dont think that about you though* ::p

salonfire wrote: »

I feel there is a widening gap between gardai and the public

Years ago, the local gardai lived in the community, got involved in football, drank in local pubs, kids went to local school, etc

People knew the local gardai, and vice versa and there was a friendly, open relationship for the most part

Now I don't know who the local gardai are, where they come from, etc, bar one who has been there years and lives locally.

Most of the new faces in the fast few years commute from 20/30 miles away and go back again in the evenings.

I was stopped at a checkpoint recently and asked the garda where he was based at, making small talk, etc and he told me that it was no concern of mine!! WTF!

On topic, all you have to observe is the run down shacks some garda stations are to know that it must be chaos inside

We talked about this a while ago in our station and came up with a couple of reasons wy this is not happening. I'll take me as an example:

When I left the college and placed in my station 30 miles away I was done so even though the town I live in, I have only lived here for 2 yrs and have no relations within 50 miles of me

Secondly despite me being careful and not telling everyone what I worked at (some neighbours do know cos they see me getting into my car) I have recently 3 falt tyres in my car (havent had one in three years previously) from nails and screws, my radio aerial broken off twice and my fence damaged twice. Only one of my neighbours are has the same problem and he is in the Air Corp. His uniform has been mistaken in the past for being a Garda because of it.

Can you imagine what my life would be like if the scrotes I see in work knew where I lived? At the end of the day it is a job and I would like to keep my partner and kids lives out of it as much as possible.

oeb

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

TheNog wrote: »

I know but Oeb is so dreamy. He clicks his fingers and I like, go all gooey and stuff :pac:

*dont think that about you though* ::p

It's always a good thing to note whenever anyone is convinced of anything by me, that I am a magician and a hypnotist (seriously). So it's ok to blame it all on me

TheNog wrote: »

We talked about this a while ago in our station and came up with a couple of reasons wy this is not happening. I'll take me as an example:

When I left the college and placed in my station 30 miles away I was done so even though the town I live in, I have only lived here for 2 yrs and have no relations within 50 miles of me

Secondly despite me being careful and not telling everyone what I worked at (some neighbours do know cos they see me getting into my car) I have recently 3 falt tyres in my car (havent had one in three years previously) from nails and screws, my radio aerial broken off twice and my fence damaged twice. Only one of my neighbours are has the same problem and he is in the Air Corp. His uniform has been mistaken in the past for being a Garda because of it.

Can you imagine what my life would be like if the scrotes I see in work knew where I lived? At the end of the day it is a job and I would like to keep my partner and kids lives out of it as much as possible.

Seriously lads, I dunno how ye can put up with that kind of crap and still get up and go to work in the morning. The lot of you are stronger (resolve wise anyway) men than I am.

Mind you, those are the same scrotes that when their house gets broken into, or their car gets nicked, or they see you struck with the 'flu' they will be whining about how you should be out there catching more criminals.

Hobart

I'm not a Guard, although I do have some interaction with them on a day to day basis, so a couple of stupid questions for a start.

Is a mobile phone a part of your standard equipment?
Is a stab vest a part of your standard equipment?

TheNog wrote: »

When I left the college and placed in my station 30 miles away I was done so even though the town I live in, I have only lived here for 2 yrs and have no relations within 50 miles of me

No smartness intended, but did you not expect this as part and parcel of your job placement?

Secondly despite me being careful and not telling everyone what I worked at (some neighbours do know cos they see me getting into my car) I have recently 3 falt tyres in my car (havent had one in three years previously) from nails and screws, my radio aerial broken off twice and my fence damaged twice.

With the utmost respect, and without prejudice to you, have you tried reporting these offences to your local Guards? I suspect not. (and I apologise if I am to be corrected) . But my experience of small crimes, such as those detailed above by you, have been treated, albeit with the utmost curiosity by Guards, with utter indifference by them. I can actually appreciate why, but I just don't understand it.

Only one of my neighbours are has the same problem and he is in the Air Corp. His uniform has been mistaken in the past for being a Garda because of it.

Can you imagine what my life would be like if the scrotes I see in work knew where I lived? At the end of the day it is a job and I would like to keep my partner and kids lives out of it as much as possible.

No person should have this type of abuse because of the job they do, in fact, I believe that those in the ES should be afforded the protection/respect of their neighbors/locals when at home.

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Hobart wrote: »

I'm not a Guard, although I do have some interaction with them on a day to day basis, so a couple of stupid questions for a start.

Is a mobile phone a part of your standard equipment?

There are state mobiles available in some stations but not all.

Hobart wrote: »

Is a stab vest a part of your standard equipment?

Yes

Hobart wrote: »

No smartness intended, but did you not expect this as part and parcel of your job placement?

Yes I did but I was replying to a poster who said it would be better to have gardai live locally to where they work rather than miles away.

Hobart wrote: »

With the utmost respect, and without prejudice to you, have you tried reporting these offences to your local Guards? I suspect not. (and I apologise if I am to be corrected) . But my experience of small crimes, such as those detailed above by you, have been treated, albeit with the utmost curiosity by Guards, with utter indifference by them. I can actually appreciate why, but I just don't understand it.

Actually I have but only did when I found out about my neighbour having the same problems. I thought at first that I was just unlucky with the tyres and was just waiting to catch the person or people who were breaking my fence and car aerial.

Hobart wrote: »

No person should have this type of abuse because of the job they do, in fact, I believe that those in the ES should be afforded the protection/respect of their neighbors/locals when at home.

+1 to that but it does happen. Fortunately the damage to my property has not been expensive but I have heard of one member's car sitting on 4 blocks when she got up one morning.

Ruen

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I see 1 person is opposed to blue flu, well I wonder how long he would last being told to put up and shut up with no right to strike. I think some people fought for that at some point in history and isnt there a document that mentions it?

I dont want to go completely off topic and start a debate here about Gardai not being allowed to strike but I'll answer Karlitosway by saying that there is a legitimate reason why certain arms of the state are precluded from being allowed to strike and I do believe it's important that it stays that way.

TheNog

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Ruen wrote: »

I dont want to go completely off topic and start a debate here about Gardai not being allowed to strike but I'll answer Karlitosway by saying that there is a legitimate reason why certain arms of the state are precluded from being allowed to strike and I do believe it's important that it stays that way.

I think we can all agree with that but if the AGS is so important then government should treat it as such. Granted since Facthna Murphy took over I think the AGS is taking a more radical approach to policing than ever before with the implementation of stab vest, spray, semi rigid cuffs, anpr, realignment of divisions etc.

There is still alot to do but Facthna has inherited the problems from this government and previous commissioners

donvito99

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

This may be Ireland, but things like proper facilities and equipment can actually happen. Yes, it is expensive, but why wasn't it done in the boom years! A traditional Commisioner? IMO, Gardai should demand better equipment and let the public and media know about it. The only category of facilities that I have heard of on National news and media (excl. Garda Review) has been with regards to Stations, ie. Wexford. If it takes localised budgets eg. like the UK, where forces are given a budget etc and it is spent on what they want and what suits their area then so be it.

The Gardai have gone for too long without basic equipment, from what has been posted on this thread so far has shown that the conditions Gardai work in is unacceptable, and to say that 'this is Ireland, things never get done' is bull, we are not a third world country, but are Police force is funded like a third world country.

Although I am glad that Facthna Murphy is taking leadership and finally steering AGS in the right direction.

Eru

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

salonfire wrote: »

I Years ago, the local gardai lived in the community, got involved in football, drank in local pubs, kids went to local school, etc

Lets be honest here and think about this one.

A, Do you think the locals in Sheriff Street, Oriel Street, Summerhill and Neilstown (Dublin only as thats where I work) would play a sport with me and not try to gain an advantage or information through this?

B, Do you think the locals would not harass me about work while I had my well earned pint? Or more importantly, that the local scum wouldnt use this great oppertunity to get some revenge on unarmed, unequiped and slightly merry Karlitosway?

C, Do you honestly believe that my childs school being common knowledge to the criminals Im arresting is not a serious threat to his / her safety? Or that this information alone would not cause my family personal problems?

D, Do you honestly think my house in 123 Sheriff Street or Summerhill Parade would still have windows or in fact still be standing when I came home from work? That my wife and children would be left to pursue their lives in this community while enjoying the friendship of our next door neighbour, the drug dealer and his prostitute heroin addicted wife?

While were at it and as I said to the local FG TD at the last election, whos going to provide these houses? Yep I could sell my house and move into a smaller house but would the taxpayer be happy to help me buy a house in Blackrock or Foxrock? Cause I tell you, no Garda is getting a mortgage for those addresses. Besides, just how many rights should Gardai and their families not have? Im not having a go at you or your post just explaining the reality of policing. There was a time local Gardai could live and work in the same place and theres still places like that but having Gardai stationed where they grew up would never work in my opinion.

As for striking, well I think its important that my life isnt messed with by other people striking but there you go. I agree that striking is a severe action especially for es workers but by refusing us the right to do so is removing a fundemental right of citizens. Its highly unlikely that it would ever be enacted anyway much like nurses dont do full walk outs.

Whitewater-AGS

+1

Karlitosway, good point and well made.

Paulzx

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

As for striking, well I think its important that my life isnt messed with by other people striking but there you go. I agree that striking is a severe action especially for es workers but by refusing us the right to do so is removing a fundemental right of citizens. Its highly unlikely that it would ever be enacted anyway much like nurses dont do full walk outs.

AGS will never get the right to strike. As an organisation that legally cannot strike you are in a postion that government would love to have plenty of other workers in. This status quo will never change.

The fire services have the right to strike and have done so. The state would love to be able to remove this from us but cannot.

The use of strike action is something that cannot be taken lightly and must be seriously considered before being used.

If you go on strike it should be all out full strike. Partial strikes dont work. If you feel that strongly about an issue you should put your money where your mouth is. Be willing to be without wages for as long as it takes. Any of the various groups that have gone on partial actions over the last while have lost.


The last strike in DFB was in 1988 and firemen were outside the gates unpaid for 6 weeks. They were not striking over wages but on issues relating to manning levels and downgrading of the service to the public. For this they risked their own financial health with a full out strike.

In 1999 a strike was averted at the last hour over issues again not related to pay.


A strike is something that should never be threatened lightly. There must be valid reason and the will to back up the threat must be there

Karlitosway1978

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Lets be honest here and think about this one.

A, Do you think the locals in Sheriff Street, Oriel Street, Summerhill and Neilstown (Dublin only as thats where I work) would play a sport with me and not try to gain an advantage or information through this?

B, Do you think the locals would not harass me about work while I had my well earned pint? Or more importantly, that the local scum wouldnt use this great oppertunity to get some revenge on unarmed, unequiped and slightly merry Karlitosway?

C, Do you honestly believe that my childs school being common knowledge to the criminals Im arresting is not a serious threat to his / her safety? Or that this information alone would not cause my family personal problems?

D, Do you honestly think my house in 123 Sheriff Street or Summerhill Parade would still have windows or in fact still be standing when I came home from work? That my wife and children would be left to pursue their lives in this community while enjoying the friendship of our next door neighbour, the drug dealer and his prostitute heroin addicted wife?

While were at it and as I said to the local FG TD at the last election, whos going to provide these houses? Yep I could sell my house and move into a smaller house but would the taxpayer be happy to help me buy a house in Blackrock or Foxrock? Cause I tell you, no Garda is getting a mortgage for those addresses. Besides, just how many rights should Gardai and their families not have? Im not having a go at you or your post just explaining the reality of policing. There was a time local Gardai could live and work in the same place and theres still places like that but having Gardai stationed where they grew up would never work in my opinion.

As for striking, well I think its important that my life isnt messed with by other people striking but there you go. I agree that striking is a severe action especially for es workers but by refusing us the right to do so is removing a fundemental right of citizens. Its highly unlikely that it would ever be enacted anyway much like nurses dont do full walk outs.

I wasn't having a go and of course I know that it is impossible for gardai to live in those areas.

I was just highlighting the changing nature of the garda/community relationship in my area in West Donegal and I persume other rural areas throughout the country. Thats all.

I'm not bothered either way as I know that if I need the gardai, I can expect a professional response, no matter who the guard is

djtechnics1210

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

Paulzx wrote: »

AGS will never get the right to strike. As an organisation that legally cannot strike you are in a postion that government would love to have plenty of other workers in. This status quo will never change.

The fire services have the right to strike and have done so. The state would love to be able to remove this from us but cannot.

The use of strike action is something that cannot be taken lightly and must be seriously considered before being used.

If you go on strike it should be all out full strike. Partial strikes dont work. If you feel that strongly about an issue you should put your money where your mouth is. Be willing to be without wages for as long as it takes. Any of the various groups that have gone on partial actions over the last while have lost.


The last strike in DFB was in 1988 and firemen were outside the gates unpaid for 6 weeks. They were not striking over wages but on issues relating to manning levels and downgrading of the service to the public. For this they risked their own financial health with a full out strike.

In 1999 a strike was averted at the last hour over issues again not related to pay.


A strike is something that should never be threatened lightly. There must be valid reason and the will to back up the threat must be there

We can go sick though

arybvtcw0eolkf

TheNog wrote: »

I dont think there is any need for a blue flu at this point in time. Our backs are not totally against the wall. The last blue flu was the result of years of total neglect and this neglect also included pay.

If Gardai were to stop using their own equipment for work who comes out the worst of it?

Gardai will because we rely on our equipment to be safe and stay safe. At the end of every shift I would like to go home to my kids but if Im in a bad situation and my radio doesnt work .... well you guess the rest

Also for people outside of the job it was reported on December's Review mag that on average 2 Gardai were assaulted every day in 2008.

We've the same problem in the Defence Forces, esp. when we're going oversea's.

Best thing to do is provide for your own comforts and safety, any fool and be uncomfortable.

But you should continue to raise concern's over poor equipment or equipment you think would be better suited to the job.

We call it 'Gucci Gear'.

As for the public not caring, I'd say thats true for the majority of the public - why should they care?.

Seriously, most people are too self centered and selfish to care about anyone but themselves.

I remember when that policeman was shot on Ossary Road, people were more concerned at the amount of traffic disruption caused to them and blaimed in it the guards saying if it was a member of the public not half as much effort would have been put into catching those who done it.

Personally for shooting a member of AGS, Defence Forces, Prison service or Ambulance/Fire services I think the place should be turned upside down. But ordinary members of the public couldn't care less.

cushtac

Ruen wrote: »

There will always be better equipment to be had so the Gardai will have to work with what they've got at the time as opposed to striking illegally

If that mentality was accepted by Gardaí there would be no vests or ASPs on issue. As it stands the Gardaí are about 10 years behind the UK in terms of equipment & members are being injured as a result.

There's a difference between personal safety & personal gain.

Trojan911

Mairt wrote: »

Seriously, most people are too self centered and selfish to care about anyone but themselves.

I remember when that policeman was shot on Ossary Road, people were more concerned at the amount of traffic disruption caused to them and blaimed in it the guards saying if it was a member of the public not half as much effort would have been put into catching those who done it.

I'd believe that. I also remember a case in South East London some years back when an officer was shot in the leg during an armed raid. (I wasn't present as I was Central, however the word got back to us via an officer who was there).

Would you believe this? A member of the public made a complaint about the shot officer swearing, because he cried out in pain " Oh f**k, my leg". Some peoples mentality just beggars belief.

deadwood

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

Trojan911 wrote: »

Would you believe this? A member of the public made a complaint about the shot officer swearing, because he cried out in pain " Oh f**k, my leg".

They were right. Whinging cops. What a wuss. Probably went to hospital too.

Trojan911

deadwood wrote: »

Whinging cops.

Hmmmmmmmmm.... What's this thread about again? Oh ya, no more favours... :pac: We are doomed.....

brown bear

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

Its very simple, turn the personal phones off and it will all grind to a halt

djtechnics1210

(All) Its a case of damned if you do or damned if you dont.

brown bear wrote: »

Its very simple, turn the personal phones off and it will all grind to a halt

And hide the keys for the patrol cars:D

yayamark

(Gardai) I will from here on in refuse to act without training or adequate equipment

brown bear wrote: »

Its very simple, turn the personal phones off and it will all grind to a halt

I just dont answer Private Number unless im "available " for overtime.

Or just do what a couple of member did in my station claimed 3 hrs ot when they were rang off duty. Fairly quickly a letter from the super came down informing everyone not to ring off duty members.

Overtime will learn em!

FGR

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

And hide the keys for the patrol cars:D

Like the time the early crew couldn't find the keys to the patrol car - having to call out to the driver's home address 50 miles outside of the division in the branch car as he had his phone switched off.

Turned out someone put the keys of a Sec 41 on a hanger which rested over the patrol car keys. All laughs ensued..especially from the Sergeants .

Sully

(Civilian) Gardai should buy whatever they need themselves and stop moaning

Moaner: "Sure don't ye have the best number plate recognition system on the market? What are ya on about, with your 07 D cars!" :P

I think if the situation is as bad as being made out then a bit of blue flu wouldnt go astray but in the current times best of luck getting FF listening to you. You guys should have excellent equipment that helps you do your job and if your using sub standard faulty equipment then its time to stand up and make yourselves heard.

Saying that, you should probably work with what you have to the best of your ability. So, I chose both options as really without using them there is no force.

Eru

(Gardai) I say blue flu is the only way to get management and the public to see sense

Personally now I would not be in favour of a blue flu. You cant get blood from a stone and thats the reality now however when (if) the country gets back up and running we need to make sure that we dont simple let the good days go by without getting something out of it.