The current N25 Midleton bypass

Chris_533976 · 02-01-2009 1:07pm #1

I was thinking about this a few days ago.

I know that the current Carrigtwohill to Midleton DC (with all its median crossings) was dualled by building a new carriageway next to the old road. What about the Midleton bypass? I think it was built in the early 80s, but was it built before the Carrig - Midleton DC?

I'm surprised that in the early 80s they spent the money on a big dualler around what was then a small town. I noticed that they skimped a bit on the bridges though, around Midleton the bridges dont have hard shoulders.

Anyone got any more histories of this?? I think we need a CBRD

L1011 · 02-01-2009 1:19pm

CIRD surely?

BluntGuy has plans for one I believe.

zenith · 02-01-2009 1:28pm

It's a funny one.

There was a section of dual carriageway of laughable standard built from near Knockgriffin to Amgen way way back - that's the section that has the median crossings on it, including the quarry trucks. The old Cork route was through Midleton, up Knockgriffin and onto this road before snaking back into Carrigtwohill. I don't remember there being any 'old' road there.

The Midleton bypass, which goes along Waterrock, was then built, I'm guessing 1990, which stopped traffic going through the town. This was also not an old road.

It then delivered people onto the 'old' dc section, and then through Carrigtwohill.

They then bypassed Carrigtwohill as part of the work on the East Cork Parkway, afair. Part of that was along an old road, yes.

HTH, I could be wrong.

Cian R · 02-01-2009 2:06pm

is there any news on this being upgraded to motorway? or is it too old to be even considered

Chris_533976 · 02-01-2009 2:23pm

Thanks

One they do the N25 Carrigtwohill - Midleton scheme (Extra GSJ, remove median crossings and put in a parallel road) (and retar the Midleton bypass), then motorway is POSSIBLE from Dunkettle to the eastern end of the Midleton bypass. AFAIK theres nothing that will stop it then. Even the narrow bridges on the Midleton bypass arent the end of the world.

MLM · 02-01-2009 2:37pm

I've been told that the Carrigtwohill to Midleton dates from the seventies. As far as I remember the Midleton bypass opened in 1986, the Carrigtwohill bypass between 1993 and 1995, and Dunkettle to Carrigtwohill in December 1997.

Amtmann · 02-01-2009 2:47pm

Cian R wrote: »

is there any news on this being upgraded to motorway? or is it too old to be even considered

The NRA has "no plans" for a third tranche of redesignations I'm afraid.

AugustusMaximus · 02-01-2009 3:21pm

zenith wrote: »

It's a funny one.

There was a section of dual carriageway of laughable standard built from near Knockgriffin to Amgen way way back - that's the section that has the median crossings on it, including the quarry trucks. The old Cork route was through Midleton, up Knockgriffin and onto this road before snaking back into Carrigtwohill. I don't remember there being any 'old' road there.

The Midleton bypass, which goes along Waterrock, was then built, I'm guessing 1990, which stopped traffic going through the town. This was also not an old road.

It then delivered people onto the 'old' dc section, and then through Carrigtwohill.

They then bypassed Carrigtwohill as part of the work on the East Cork Parkway, afair. Part of that was along an old road, yes.

HTH, I could be wrong.

So does this mean that there are sections of a single carriageway road out there between Cork and Midleton which are being disussed since the archaic DC was built.

Talking about the same section of road, how about this.

The section between the Dunkettle Roundabout and Glouthaune.

Would I be thinking right in the following here.

In the past, there was no section of road leading from the Dunkettle Roundabout to the, too be built, Dunkettle Interchange. Therefore, to get from Cork to Midleton, you would have had to have gone into Glanmire, turning right over the hump back bridge and proceeding all the way until you reached the old Glounthaune road ?

Typewriter · 02-01-2009 3:27pm

Plans for the rebuild/upgrade...

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/N25%20Brochure%202pages.pdf

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/N25CarrigtwohillMidelton(merge).pdf

I hope they do this soon the potholes on that stretch are massive and every time it rains it floods.

corktina · 02-01-2009 3:41pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

So does this mean that there are sections of a single carriageway road out there between Cork and Midleton which are being disussed since the archaic DC was built.

Talking about the same section of road, how about this.

The section between the Dunkettle Roundabout and Glouthaune.

Would I be thinking right in the following here.

In the past, there was no section of road leading from the Dunkettle Roundabout to the, too be built, Dunkettle Interchange. Therefore, to get from Cork to Midleton, you would have had to have gone into Glanmire, turning right over the hump back bridge and proceeding all the way until you reached the old Glounthaune road ?

well yes you could have done that, Or come up the Middle Glanmire Road from Summerhill

jhegarty · 02-01-2009 3:54pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

So does this mean that there are sections of a single carriageway road out there between Cork and Midleton which are being disussed since the archaic DC was built.

Talking about the same section of road, how about this.

The section between the Dunkettle Roundabout and Glouthaune.

Would I be thinking right in the following here.

In the past, there was no section of road leading from the Dunkettle Roundabout to the, too be built, Dunkettle Interchange. Therefore, to get from Cork to Midleton, you would have had to have gone into Glanmire, turning right over the hump back bridge and proceeding all the way until you reached the old Glounthaune road ?

No , there was a section of road that is complete gone now between the lower glanmire roundabout (sorry , don't know the correct name ) and old main cork midelton road.

If you take the spur for little island heading east from the tunnel you meet the old road and can see the dead end on your left that was the main road.

Amtmann · 02-01-2009 4:07pm

Just to say, I was actually coincidentally on the R623 two day ago, and it's the ugliest, most vile road I've ever been on. It hasn't been abandoned, but it reminded me of that desert town you see in Terminator 2 - you know, the one where they get all the guns.

I was in Glanmire (which has no signposts) and was looking to get onto one of those L-roads that crosses the N8 Glanmire bypass as an overbridge to get a look, when I took a wrong turn and found myself on the road that time forgot.

jhegarty · 02-01-2009 4:20pm

Furet wrote: »

Just to say, I was actually coincidentally on the R623 two day ago, and it's the ugliest, most vile road I've ever been on. It hasn't been abandoned, but it reminded me of that desert town you see in Terminator 2 - you know, the one where they get all the guns.

I was in Glanmire (which has no signposts) and was looking to get onto one of those L-roads that crosses the N8 Glanmire bypass as an overbridge to get a look, when I took a wrong turn and found myself on the road that time forgot.

Don't forget 11/12 years ago that was the main cork - waterford road !

invincibleirish · 02-01-2009 4:27pm

I would guess that the DC would have got funding and being built as the route was part of the original LUTS plan adopted by the Councils in the late 1970s.

As a Lee tunnel/bridge and other expensive bits of road were in the plan i would reason that the N25 got upgraded as it would be cheap and quick to do in comparison to other sections.

AugustusMaximus · 02-01-2009 4:27pm

jhegarty wrote: »

No , there was a section of road that is complete gone now between the lower glanmire roundabout (sorry , don't know the correct name ) and old main cork midelton road.

If you take the spur for little island heading east from the tunnel you meet the old road and can see the dead end on your left that was the main road.

Where exactly is that ?

So there was an older bridge just after the Dunkettle Roundabout going towards Midleton rather than the Dual Carriageway bridge that is there at present ?

BTW, roundabout on the Lower Glanmire Road is the Dunkettle Roundabout while the one at the Tunnel is the Dunkettle Interchange.

jhegarty · 02-01-2009 5:01pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Where exactly is that ?

So there was an older bridge just after the Dunkettle Roundabout going towards Midleton rather than the Dual Carriageway bridge that is there at present ?

BTW, roundabout on the Lower Glanmire Road is the Dunkettle Roundabout while the one at the Tunnel is the Dunkettle Interchange.

In almost same place as the current bridge. I think one of lanes of the current bridge may be the old bridge (or at least in the same place as it).

Have a look at 51°54'21.81"N 8°23'19.73"W in goolge earth, you can just see the line of the old road (next to the train tracks) heading from the old road to the roundabout.

AugustusMaximus · 02-01-2009 5:18pm

jhegarty wrote: »

In almost same place as the current bridge. I think one of lanes of the current bridge may be the old bridge (or at least in the same place as it).

Have a look at 51°54'21.81"N 8°23'19.73"W in goolge earth, you can just see the line of the old road (next to the train tracks) heading from the old road to the roundabout.

Ah yes, I see it now.

Can't say I ever remember the road in this format. The oldest way I remember it was when the bridge was dual carriageway and you had to take that long left turn (which is now the slip road into Glounthaune) and onto the roundabout.

Lennoxschips · 02-01-2009 5:22pm

You can still see the old road on the satellite photo on Google Maps if you look carefully.

(words taken out of my mouth)

Amtmann · 02-01-2009 5:44pm

On the subject of the N25 in the Cork area, you might be interested in these: http://www.arup.ie/publications/Kinsale_Road_Interchange.pdf

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/pdf/656899583.pdf

deRanged · 02-01-2009 7:41pm

Furet wrote: »

Just to say, I was actually coincidentally on the R623 two day ago, and it's the ugliest, most vile road I've ever been on.

hey be nice - that's my neighbourhood you're talking about!

The old road is still visible in places, the old t junction at Bury's Bridge (by the little roundabout east of the Ibis) can be seen in this shot I took this summer.

It's hard to imagine that a few years ago all the waterford traffic came out this road.

AugustusMaximus · 02-01-2009 8:16pm

Anyone know when they replaced that old section of road with the newer one ?

jhegarty · 02-01-2009 8:30pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Anyone know when they replaced that old section of road with the newer one ?

that section was closed around 94, but it was still a temporary route through the new road until 97/98

AugustusMaximus · 03-01-2009 1:22am

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Thanks

One they do the N25 Carrigtwohill - Midleton scheme (Extra GSJ, remove median crossings and put in a parallel road) (and retar the Midleton bypass), then motorway is POSSIBLE from Dunkettle to the eastern end of the Midleton bypass. AFAIK theres nothing that will stop it then. Even the narrow bridges on the Midleton bypass arent the end of the world.

Is it guarunteed that a new road will be built between Carrigtowhill and Midleton.

I'd say they'll have to straighten the road a bit to bring it to 120kph motorway standard.

Victor · 03-01-2009 2:21am

Before the Midleton Bypass, it could easily take 20 minutes to get through the town.

From the east end of Carrigtohill (last on-ramp) to Midleton (first off ramp) was certainly done by 1980 - a map my father had showed only it and the Nass Road as being dual carriageways. This appears to be an online widening of hte existing road, evidenced by a rather sturdy tree in the median at one point.

Chris_533976 · 03-01-2009 11:49am

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Is it guarunteed that a new road will be built between Carrigtowhill and Midleton.

I'd say they'll have to straighten the road a bit to bring it to 120kph motorway standard.

"Guaranteed" in as much as theres a scheme planned, but it was one of those ones that was temporarily shelved lately.

However, IF Amgen come back (and I heard a rumour lately that they may be tempted), then expect to see this scheme bumped to the top of the list - above Newlands, N11, etc.

JupiterKid · 03-01-2009 2:30pm

AFAIK the section of Dual Carriageway from Carrigtwohill to Midleton was built in the early 1970s, at least by 1975 because I have a 1975 Michelin road map of Ireland which shows this section of DC on the N25.*

The Midleton bypass was built in 1986/87 because traffic congestion was very bad in Midleton, and although it was not a big town at the time, the layout of its main street, at a differing axis to the East-West N25 direction, led to traffic jams.

The Carrigtwohill bypass was built as part of the East Cork Parkway, but opened at the end of 1994 as bypassing Carrigtwohill was seen as a priority before the rest of the E Cork Pkway was finished in 1997.

Finally, IMO the DC between Carrigtwohill and Midleton is grossly substandard and needs complete rebuilding.

* On the 1975 Michelin road map, two other short sections of DC in Cork are depicted - on the N8 from Tivoli about a mile eastward and on the N71 just south of Bishopstown.

AugustusMaximus · 03-01-2009 2:57pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

"Guaranteed" in as much as theres a scheme planned, but it was one of those ones that was temporarily shelved lately.

However, IF Amgen come back (and I heard a rumour lately that they may be tempted), then expect to see this scheme bumped to the top of the list - above Newlands, N11, etc.

Sorry, i meant is it guarunteed that a new Parralell route will also be built in addition to rebuilding the dual carriageway section ?

BluntGuy · 03-01-2009 4:00pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Sorry, i meant is it guarunteed that a new Parralell route will also be built in addition to rebuilding the dual carriageway section ?

A new parallel route will be constructed AFAIK, so if they wanted to make it M they could.

Sadly, as Furet already said earlier in the thread, the NRA informed me they have "no plans" for a third tranche.

Anyway, what is the plan for the rest of the N25?

AugustusMaximus · 03-01-2009 4:12pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

A new parallel route will be constructed AFAIK, so if they wanted to make it M they could.

Sadly, as Furet already said earlier in the thread, the NRA informed me they have "no plans" for a third tranche.

Anyway, what is the plan for the rest of the N25?

They prob wouldn't make it Motorway until the entire Cork to Waterford route would be nearing completion anyways. They said that short sections of HQDC weren't going to be changed to Motorways.

There's 21km of road to be built between Midleton and the Youghal bypass. No idea wether this is going to be HQDC standard. Hopefully it will be.

After this we have the Youghal bypass. ANy idea how much this would cost to retrofit to motorway standard ?

BluntGuy · 03-01-2009 4:21pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

They prob wouldn't make it Motorway until the entire Cork to Waterford route would be nearing completion anyways. They said that short sections of HQDC weren't going to be changed to Motorways.

There's 21km of road to be built between Midleton and the Youghal bypass. No idea wether this is going to be HQDC standard. Hopefully it will be.

After this we have the Youghal bypass. ANy idea how much this would cost to retrofit to motorway standard ?

...

Youghal Bypass... you see if they do that offline then the original bypass (which only opened five years ago) looks like a massive waste of money, but retro-fitting it to motorway...

I'm not so sure about that. We'll have to see what their ultimate plan is. If the plan is to have DC from Cork to Waterford, then the Youghal bypass will need either some sort of modifcation or a new offline route will have to be built.

invincibleirish · 03-01-2009 4:29pm

Much point in having Mway between Midleton & Waterford? the current N25 along this section is more then adequate for the traffic volumes using it, straighter then a lot of DCs ffs.

The N25 needs to have its busiest parts sorted first, thats the SRR Interchanges, Dunkettle Interchange & the Carrig-Midleton upgrade. Lets get that done before the crayons come out;).

Lennoxschips · 03-01-2009 4:34pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

Much point in having Mway between Midleton & Waterford? the current N25 along this section is more then adequate for the traffic volumes using it, straighter then a lot of DCs ffs.

Because Rosslare is set to be the new Rotterdam of Europe, or so I've been told.

I'd agree that the dodgy bits of the N25 need to be sorted out (Midleton-Youghal for example), but the recently upgraded bits are grand. In fact, they are a pleasure to drive. Why anybody would want to make them already obsolete for an unneeded DC, is beyond me. But this is Ireland we're talking about...

BluntGuy · 03-01-2009 4:46pm

I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting upgrading Cork - Waterford to DC or M.

But I do think motorway restrictions are needed on the N25 around Cork once the upgrades are done (whenever the hell that may be).

As for Dunkettle, I don't even know where to begin to be perfectly honest short of ripping it out and starting again. And let's not forget the hideous new junction that's going to be placed on the N8 between Dunkettle and Glanmire to add to the fun.

Anyway, like I was saying: M-way restrictions on all parts of the N25 around Cork. They don't even have to label it "M" just put up "clearway", "no cyclists", "no pedestrians" and "no slow vehicles" signage.

invincibleirish · 03-01-2009 4:59pm

There was a flock of cyclists on the N25 at Little Island Westbound in the Hard shoulder over the Xmas period (possibly the 29th). I've come across individual cyclists in the past but this was a whole club seemingly. Sooner or later there is going to be an accident involving this type of behaviour.

As for Dunkettle lets compare and contrast with the NR bypass: one is justified and is at an advanced stage on the basis it connects a not very busy port far away from anywhere with light traffic numbers, the other is an Interchange which will get worse before its going to get better.

To paraphase Lennoxschips only in Ireland...

corktina · 03-01-2009 5:49pm

I would guess it is far more likely for a car to run into a cyclist than vice-versa so maybe it is cars that should be restricted on the n25

invincibleirish · 03-01-2009 5:55pm

corktina wrote: »

I would guess it is far more likely for a car to run into a cyclist than vice-versa so maybe it is cars that should be restricted on the n25

Good 'un

My sides are splitting at that

Chris_533976 · 03-01-2009 7:05pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting upgrading Cork - Waterford to DC or M.

NRA are

http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/CorkCountyCouncil/N25MidletontoYoughal/SchemeName,15508,en.html

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n25_midleton_to_youghal_road_improvement_scheme.php

Guesswork DC or 2+2. And the Youghal bypass will be modified, but it'll only be a case of widen one bridge and just chuck a barrier up. It really will be very little effort to dual the Youghal bypass.

There used to be a scheme to replace the Youghal bridge too, dunno where that went. Given the land in the area and the fact that its mostly very scenic, I dunno how the hell a new bridge would be put in.

L1011 · 03-01-2009 7:40pm

corktina wrote: »

I would guess it is far more likely for a car to run into a cyclist than vice-versa so maybe it is cars that should be restricted on the n25

I've been hit by cyclists in traffic at least 4 times (me stationary, them not).

I've never hit a cyclist.

BluntGuy · 03-01-2009 7:45pm

I have no issues with cyclists, as long as they're not on MY DC...

I shouldn't have to drive down the SRR worrying about whether I'll bump into a cyclist or somebody who thinks it's a great place to walk their dog.

M-Restrictions NOW!

AugustusMaximus · 03-01-2009 7:53pm

Technically is it fine for a person to walk over the SRR bridge at Douglas ?

Chris_533976 · 03-01-2009 7:57pm

Yup, I've seen it. I've also seen a horse and cart on the DC outside Mahon. The horse was not impressed.

corktina · 03-01-2009 8:04pm

MYOB wrote: »

I've been hit by cyclists in traffic at least 4 times (me stationary, them not).

I've never hit a cyclist.

you'll have to try harder then:cool:

Stark · 03-01-2009 8:16pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Technically is it fine for a person to walk over the SRR bridge at Douglas ?

Why wouldn't it be?

Edit: What bridge is that? The only bridges over the SRR I can think of are the one by the Mahon Point exit where people can walk over from the old railway track and the one over the Sarsfield Road roundabout.

Typewriter · 03-01-2009 8:28pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Sorry, i meant is it guarunteed that a new Parralell route will also be built in addition to rebuilding the dual carriageway section ?

yup

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corktina · 03-01-2009 8:30pm

theres a huge bridge at Douglas...it carries the SRR OVER the village roads....:D I trhink it is permissable to walk anywhere unless it is specifically banned (such as near Blackpool on the bridge over the old road)

It is also OK for anyone to use a non-motorway however they see fit and this includes Pedestrians and cyclists....about time that King Car was deposed.

BluntGuy · 03-01-2009 8:38pm

corktina wrote: »

theres a huge bridge at Douglas...it carries the SRR OVER the village roads....:D I trhink it is permissable to walk anywhere unless it is specifically banned (such as near Blackpool on the bridge over the old road)

It is also OK for anyone to use a non-motorway however they see fit and this includes Pedestrians and cyclists....about time that King Car was deposed.

Yup. People can cycle, run, walk their dog, feed their cat, do a jig, push a trolley, whatever they like on a viaduct with no hard shoulder.

It's insanity.

And yes, as green_jesus has brilliantly shown, a new parallel road will be provided for non-motorway traffic.

AugustusMaximus · 03-01-2009 8:57pm

Stark wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be?

Edit: What bridge is that? The only bridges over the SRR I can think of are the one by the Mahon Point exit where people can walk over from the old railway track and the one over the Sarsfield Road roundabout.

Over the SRR Bridge. Not the bridge over the SRR.

The bridge which takes the SRR over the centre of Douglas. It is a tight bridge with two lanes going either direction and no hard shoulder.

Walking over it would be nothing less than suicide. Funnilly enough it would be much safer to walk through the Lee Tunnel as it has a path. Yet this would be illegal.

AugustusMaximus · 03-01-2009 9:05pm

green_jesus wrote: »

yup

Am I right in seeing that there is going to be two roads, both north and south of the N25 to be provided for local access ?

Any idea will they be straightening the road much in order to bring it up to HQDC ?

Typewriter · 03-01-2009 9:22pm

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Am I right in seeing that there is going to be two roads, both north and south of the N25 to be provided for local access ?

Any idea will they be straightening the road much in order to bring it up to HQDC ?

Yes the new link roads with connect with rezoned land and also tie in with the north link road in Midleton currently under construction.

NRA: 'Although the route is
constructed to two-lane dual carriageway standard, the
section from Carrigtohill to Midleton is to a lesser
standard than the more modern western section. The
NRA proposes to provide a full grade separation of the
junctions to the west'.

Well im not sure about HQDC but when they level out the hills to put in the interchanges the line of sight on that stretch will vastly improve.

corktina · 04-01-2009 2:05am

BluntGuy wrote: »

Yup. People can cycle, run, walk their dog, feed their cat, do a jig, push a trolley, whatever they like on a viaduct with no hard shoulder.

It's insanity.
And yes, as green_jesus has brilliantly shown, a new parallel road will be provided for non-motorway traffic.

now im confused...I was pretty sure that relief road was nowhere near the viaduct.....

BluntGuy · 04-01-2009 3:27am

corktina wrote: »

now im confused...I was pretty sure that relief road was nowhere near the viaduct.....

No... I was referring to the Midleton scheme...

The current N25 Midleton bypass

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