Israel scores an own goal in propaganda war: Cypriot Gaza aid vessel rammed by Navy.

cornbb · 31-12-2008 02:44AM

Israel are being real bastards. You could sympathise with the horrific past they've had, being despised and sniped at by their neighbours for decades, but what they're doing to Gaza is nothing short of barbaric, pure evil. Israel have a lot of problems to solve but they are doing themselves no help, they will only make things worse for themselves. This latest conflict is yet another catalyst that will swell Hamas' ranks.

ejmaztec · 31-12-2008 03:05AM

Pen1987 wrote: »

while sipping a glass of red and chumping digestives

I think that you've gone too far with this abomination of an idea (bit like the Israelis with theirs).

Blazer · 31-12-2008 10:39AM

Poccington wrote: »

So if a boat is warned not to procede into a closed military area, then refuses to listen to said warning and keeps going, then as patrol boats move to intercept said boat.... The very same boat then decides to try and out-maneuver the patrol boat and it ends up in a collision. It's all the Israeli's fault.

Of course the Israeli's are in the wrong, I mean when someone deliberately tries to break through a naval blockade you're supposed to let them do it. Especially when it's an unmarked boat that doesn't show in any way that it's a relief vessel, it's common military practice to let them sail right through :rolleyes:

Muppets deserved it..looks like they were trying to sneak through..and at night.

Run_to_da_hills · 31-12-2008 10:51AM

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Muppets deserved it..looks like they were trying to sneak through..and at night.

Im sure the Israelis knew exactly what colour underwear the crew were wearing from the sophisticated surveillance equipment provided by the United States. :rolleyes:

Gummy Panda · 31-12-2008 10:55AM

Are you allowed to ram a boat in international waters with your navy?

Tbh, I don't like Israel. Not because of land grabbing or that they're jewish. Just how arrogrant they are. Aslong as they have the US on their side they ignore everyone else.

I'd love to see what would happen if US funding and aid was pulled. Would they come looking to other western countries for support then?

Neamhshuntasach · 31-12-2008 11:31AM

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

Muppets deserved it..looks like they were trying to sneak through..and at night.

So you're basing that on what the Israeli spokesperson said and in turn what that Poccington fella said. I've been on 2 EU charted aid ships that were destined for Palestine and were pre-cleared by the Israelis and then you are rejected and escorted out of their waters. They do know very well when a boat is entering. Everyone on the Cypriot ship, including doctors and an ex US senator all claimed the same thing. That the Israeli's never made contact. But on the other hand the Israeli's claim that they did and the ship never responded. So people believe an Israeli spokesperson who says it on TV over several people's claims. It's just the same thing as when the US shot down the Iranian civilian airliner back in '88 and claimed they made contact and the plane never responded. Which was later proved to be a lie by another US ship commander.

So don't be surprised if Governments lie.

munchester29 · 31-12-2008 12:11PM

The goal of these so called "Aid ships" is not to provide aid to the Palestinians.
The goal of these ships is very simple - to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza, and be a thorn in Israel's side.
An attempt to rally public opinion against the cruel Israelis who won't let innocent aid workers and messengers of good faith to help the poor Palestinians.

The blockade was put in place for very good reasons - Hamas are using all unsupervised routes they have to smuggle weapons, explosives, rockets & mortar shells into Gaza and these weapons are then used on Israel.

If any organization wants to aid the Palestinians, they can use the Egyptian border pass or the Israeli border pass to transfer goods into Gaza. Unfortunately, that is not the goal of these “aid” ships.

On at least one occasion, the people on these ships have admitted to smuggling Palestinians out of the Gaza strip. God only knows what else was smuggled into or out of Gaza by these good Samaritans.

In 2008 alone, Israel was hit by over 3000 rockets and mortar shells!
Over 700,000 Israeli citizens (15% or so of the population) are within the Hamas rocket & mortar firing range!
How dare the Israelis kill innocent Hamas peace activists to stop these rockets & mortars!!!

Show me one country in the world that would have or ever has shown such restraint under such circumstances…

I think Israel shows and has shown great reserve considering the means at their disposal.

Manic Moran · 31-12-2008 07:41PM

I must say, I'm not sure just how much practical aid is going to be provided by a journalist, human rights activist, or Ex-US Senator.

If they weren't trying to score political points, they could have used the tonnage saved for more medicine and such.

Of course, that wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome of if they'll get through or not. Just pointing out that in this case, it wasn't a pure aid vessel anyway.

Nodin · 31-12-2008 08:02PM

Mairt wrote: »

Good stuff, and I would hope our navy would ram similar craft delivering drugs to our shores, or as in back in the day, ram shipments of arms to the IRA.

Bravo to the Israeli Navy.

I was unaware that there were either illegal drugs or arms on the ship. Do you happen to have a source for that information?

tallaght01 · 31-12-2008 08:08PM

Why are aid ships carrying palestinian rights campaigners??

That's such a dumb move.

I've been heavily involved with the red cross for many years.

We go to great pains to preserve our neutrality. It's so so important in terms of international conflict.

But some charities are just a bit naive.

marcsignal · 31-12-2008 08:09PM

I'm CONVINCED these threads about the Mid East are born pregnant

sceptre · 31-12-2008 08:38PM

brianthebard wrote: »

Israel wouldn't really be the promised land any more if they nuke all their neighbours will it?

In fairness, we don't know that the cockroaches and twinkies don't have a unified religion that says they were all promised it first (the land of roaches and twinkies).

Gordon · 31-12-2008 08:52PM

In the end the cockroaches and twinkies will rule all, it's inevitable.

marcsignal · 01-01-2009 06:09AM

anti semetic cockroaches and twinkies :eek:

Dyr · 01-01-2009 03:43PM

those cockroaches brought it on themselves

dlofnep · 01-01-2009 04:01PM

munchester29 wrote: »

I think Israel shows and has shown great reserve considering the means at their disposal.

But yet, they've killed 2000+ Palestinians since 2005. While hamas has killed 90 Israelis.

Great reserve there.

Terry · 01-01-2009 05:57PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I must say, I'm not sure just how much practical aid is going to be provided by a journalist, human rights activist, or Ex-US Senator.

If they weren't trying to score political points, they could have used the tonnage saved for more medicine and such.

Of course, that wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome of if they'll get through or not. Just pointing out that in this case, it wasn't a pure aid vessel anyway.

A boat delivering 3.5 tonnes of Cypriot medical aid to the Gaza Strip has been rammed by Israeli naval vessels in international waters, activists say.

About 3.5 tonnes apparently.

As for their presence, it brings publicity to the fact that Israel are denying international aid to the people of Gaza.

munchester29 wrote: »

The goal of these so called "Aid ships" is not to provide aid to the Palestinians.
The goal of these ships is very simple - to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza, and be a thorn in Israel's side.
An attempt to rally public opinion against the cruel Israelis who won't let innocent aid workers and messengers of good faith to help the poor Palestinians.

The blockade was put in place for very good reasons - Hamas are using all unsupervised routes they have to smuggle weapons, explosives, rockets & mortar shells into Gaza and these weapons are then used on Israel.

If any organization wants to aid the Palestinians, they can use the Egyptian border pass or the Israeli border pass to transfer goods into Gaza. Unfortunately, that is not the goal of these “aid” ships.

On at least one occasion, the people on these ships have admitted to smuggling Palestinians out of the Gaza strip. God only knows what else was smuggled into or out of Gaza by these good Samaritans.

In 2008 alone, Israel was hit by over 3000 rockets and mortar shells!
Over 700,000 Israeli citizens (15% or so of the population) are within the Hamas rocket & mortar firing range!
How dare the Israelis kill innocent Hamas peace activists to stop these rockets & mortars!!!

Show me one country in the world that would have or ever has shown such restraint under such circumstances…

I think Israel shows and has shown great reserve considering the means at their disposal.

Yeah, 100% of Palestinians are within range of Israel's far superior rockets.

Now, can anyone give me a completely valid reason as to why Israel are denying the people of Gaza much needed aid?

Manic Moran · 01-01-2009 07:39PM

Now, can anyone give me a completely valid reason as to why Israel are denying the people of Gaza much needed aid?

Because they have a designated aid entry point already, and it's easier to control access through that as opposed to the water?

Would I not be correct in saying, by the way, that more aid has come through the Israeli border than the Egyptian one?

NTM

Highsider · 01-01-2009 07:51PM

TBH any kind of comeupance isreal has coming they deserve for the way they block aid shipments and have treated the people of Gaza over time.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 01-01-2009 08:16PM

Highsider wrote: »

TBH any kind of comeupance isreal has coming they deserve for the way they block aid shipments and have treated the people of Gaza over time.

LOL, sometimes I feel like banging my head off a wall here.

There's a bloody war being fought, its not like our guards are blocking Tescos trucks going through O'Connell St.

It would be pure idiocy for any army to allow convoys into a war zone willy nilly, why thats lost on people is beyond me.

FlutterinBantam · 01-01-2009 08:28PM

munchester29 wrote: »

The goal of these so called "Aid ships" is not to provide aid to the Palestinians.
The goal of these ships is very simple - to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza, and be a thorn in Israel's side.
An attempt to rally public opinion against the cruel Israelis who won't let innocent aid workers and messengers of good faith to help the poor Palestinians.

The blockade was put in place for very good reasons - Hamas are using all unsupervised routes they have to smuggle weapons, explosives, rockets & mortar shells into Gaza and these weapons are then used on Israel.

If any organization wants to aid the Palestinians, they can use the Egyptian border pass or the Israeli border pass to transfer goods into Gaza. Unfortunately, that is not the goal of these “aid” ships.

On at least one occasion, the people on these ships have admitted to smuggling Palestinians out of the Gaza strip. God only knows what else was smuggled into or out of Gaza by these good Samaritans.

In 2008 alone, Israel was hit by over 3000 rockets and mortar shells!
Over 700,000 Israeli citizens (15% or so of the population) are within the Hamas rocket & mortar firing range!
How dare the Israelis kill innocent Hamas peace activists to stop these rockets & mortars!!!

Show me one country in the world that would have or ever has shown such restraint under such circumstances…

I think Israel shows and has shown great reserve considering the means at their disposal.

I totally agree.

Who is funding these ships and what is their purpose.???

Who is this mayo geezer on the ship and who is supporting him??

If Ireland were under attack from rogue rockets would we not expect the state to defend us.

Terry · 01-01-2009 09:33PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Because they have a designated aid entry point already, and it's easier to control access through that as opposed to the water?

Would I not be correct in saying, by the way, that more aid has come through the Israeli border than the Egyptian one?

NTM

Here's the thing, all they have to do is sarch the ship.
Everything comes up clean and the ship is allowed to go through.
Aside from that, who do the Israelis think they are blocking anyone entry to another country?

I can understand that they want to stop shipments of weapons, but to block an aid vessel is just bully tactics on their part.

They also have absolutely no right to ram any vessel in international waters.

That ship would have passed through Israeli waters on it's way to Gaza and they could have just carried out a search on it there.

Mairt wrote: »

LOL, sometimes I feel like banging my head off a wall here.

There's a bloody war being fought, its not like our guards are blocking Tescos trucks going through O'Connell St.

It would be pure idiocy for any army to allow convoys into a war zone willy nilly, why thats lost on people is beyond me.

Like I said, they could have searched the ship.
They have no right to stop any ship from docking in Gaza. It's not their land.

Once again I ask can anyone give me a completely valid reason as to why Israel are denying the people of Gaza much needed aid?

Mr. Presentable · 01-01-2009 09:44PM

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

So you're basing that on what the Israeli spokesperson said and in turn what that Poccington fella said. I've been on 2 EU charted aid ships that were destined for Palestine and were pre-cleared by the Israelis and then you are rejected and escorted out of their waters. They do know very well when a boat is entering. Everyone on the Cypriot ship, including doctors and an ex US senator all claimed the same thing. That the Israeli's never made contact. But on the other hand the Israeli's claim that they did and the ship never responded. So people believe an Israeli spokesperson who says it on TV over several people's claims. It's just the same thing as when the US shot down the Iranian civilian airliner back in '88 and claimed they made contact and the plane never responded. Which was later proved to be a lie by another US ship commander.

So don't be surprised if Governments lie.

Here's the problem. You choose one version of events to believe above the other.
My position? Undecided until someone without an agenda can persuade me what is actually happening.

Neamhshuntasach, no disrespect, but if you were actually on two ships as you claim, that were refused entry by Israel, your opinions are not what one might call "without bias or agenda".

Manic Moran · 01-01-2009 09:46PM

Here's the thing, all they have to do is sarch the ship.
Everything comes up clean and the ship is allowed to go through.

Israel only has so many ships, and it takes time to search every single vessel which goes through. What's stopping another boat sneaking by whilst the first is being searched? Far simpler to simply redirect the traffic to where it can be controlled.

Dock the boat at Haifa or wherever, and send the aid via truck to the designated crossing point, at both places there are plenty of inspectors available to do the searching job.

They also have absolutely no right to ram any vessel in international waters.

They could always have made their point with 76mm High Explosive shells... There is a bit of a war on, after all.

NTM

Hammiepeters · 01-01-2009 10:09PM

There are already plenty of aid supplies warehoused in Gaza. Hamas are not distributing it. As a result of the constant smuggling of arms from Iran and Syria into Gaza; It has to be considered reasonable that something of a blockade will exist until such time as objectives are achieved. It also has to be considered that Israel does not want to harm civilians and is genuinely upset at that outcome whilst their oponents dance in the street when they score a direct hit on an Israeli School or village. Irish people have for too long , drawn comparisons with the Palestinian question and our own problems. We really need to wake up to the obvious difference. We need to respect and support Israel in it's fight against a group of fanatical,ridiculous,unreasonable,undemocratic,intolerent and unrepentant group of Islamic countries. Eretz Israel.

dlofnep · 01-01-2009 10:25PM

Hammiepeters wrote: »

There are already plenty of aid supplies warehoused in Gaza. Hamas are not distributing it.

Source?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 01-01-2009 10:30PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Source?

Unless its the Flag Officer Commanding the Hamas Naval Service & Dockyards I don't think your going to believe any source posted.

Hammiepeters · 01-01-2009 10:35PM

Israels' forign minister. She has the receipts. Isreal has been delivering aid to Gaza since the so called ''ceasefire''. The islaamic brothers have been delivering rockets.

Hammiepeters · 01-01-2009 10:38PM

dlofnep wrote: »

But yet, they've killed 2000+ Palestinians since 2005. While hamas has killed 90 Israelis.

Great reserve there.

More to do with incompetence where hamas are concerned. They would kill a few million if they could.

Jesus1222 · 01-01-2009 10:43PM

Poccington wrote: »

Of course the Israeli's are in the wrong, I mean when someone deliberately tries to break through a naval blockade you're supposed to let them do it. Especially when it's an unmarked boat that doesn't show in any way that it's a relief vessel, it's common military practice to let them sail right through :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

And the blockade in the first place? Could they not have boarded it, inspected it and let them on their way? Or taken control of it and escorted it out of Israeli waters? Anything but doing their best, short of shooting them, to sink the boat. The strangulation of Gaza? Do these questions ever enter your mind?
.

Israel scores an own goal in propaganda war: Cypriot Gaza aid vessel rammed by Navy.

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