Countdown to the Bomb

27-12-2008 07:19PM

Wow.This thread got all serious

Neamhshuntasach · 27-12-2008 07:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow.This thread got all serious

Nah, you just don't get the sarcasm.

Manic Moran · 27-12-2008 07:35PM

'

They never ever focus on the reason why. While the question of "would you sit on your hands while 450+ rockets are fired into your country?"

Why not focus on the why, then? What is the desired endstated from the rocket-launchings and suicide bombings? What's the purpose? Do they really think that continued use of these tactics are going to result in a rectifying of the problems you list? Or is it more likely to reinforce the problem? What does the last 30 years tell us?

If' someone's way the hell bigger than you, you don't try using force against them. That's their advantage.

NTM

Biggins · 27-12-2008 07:40PM

To be honest, its a completely mad situation.
I think its going to take a completely mad solution to end this whole mess.

...like getting all the world top ambassadors from major countries and dividing them up equally and getting them to reside in Gaza and Israel border communities.

Then see who will take the risk of chucking something and receive the reaction from the rest of the world!

In reality, I can't see any current possible solution that is workable.

dlofnep · 27-12-2008 08:00PM

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

ha ha
I have it from good authorithy the best is yet to come for the scumlord child killing terrorist scum who call themselves palestinian freedom fighters

wait and see what happens next

I think you mean the Israeli Defense forces, or did you miss my post when I highlighted the truth of the situation. I'll repeat it for you, just incase you forgot.

Total Palestinian deaths in the past 3 years: 1290 (222 of which were children)
Total Israeli deaths in the past 3 years: 86 (8 of which were children)

Who's the child killing terrorist scum now? Or do the 222 Palestinian children (not including those who have died recently) not count?

You keep eating up your Israeli fed propaganda and we'll stick to more accurate figures on the situation.

Highsider · 27-12-2008 08:13PM

Biggins wrote: »

I'll make a prediction.

The current wave of tit for tat attacks will continue mainstream for the next few days.
Political influence will eventually slow things down (as usual).
Hamas will then in the intervening period gain time to re-arm itself quietly while publicly state they are ceasing fire in order to deal with their casualties and show to the world that they are the ones wishing for peace and gain lost propaganda influence.
To keep the fire stoked as such however, once in a while a missile will be fired.

Within two/three months a suicide bomber will once again explode themselves within a major Israel town, probably the capital. This bomb attack if it don't happen before or on the upcoming election's day in Israel, will give the recurring/new power in Israel to continue more heavily, attacks by air strikes on Gaza.
There will be no ground forces sent in. Only troops to help tighten the border. (The Israelite government know they can't win a ground war) More Israel warships will be deployed off the Gaza coast to stop any weapons of the missile type getting continuously in.

Its a cycle that will continue to play itself out till eventually a dirty bomb will be supplied to Hamas, in parts or whole. This, they will release upon the Israel capital. When that happens, its game over for the lot of us.

Why "game over for the lot of us" ? We don't live in the middle east

Biggins · 27-12-2008 08:23PM

Highsider wrote: »

Why "game over for the lot of us" ? We don't live in the middle east

If only because of treaties drawn up and nations siding on one side or the other subsequently as the missiles begin to fly.

That said - I hope to god I'm wrong for all our sakes!
I would love to be wrong.

galwayrush · 27-12-2008 08:29PM

On a more serious note, did some Irish Minister once say at a peace meeting between the Jews and Muslims something along the lines of " Why can't you all do the Christian thing and get along"

Biggins · 27-12-2008 08:31PM

galwayrush wrote: »

On a more serious note, did some Irish Minister once say at a peace meeting between the Jews and Muslims something along the lines of " Why can't you all do the Christian thing and get along"

I remember that. Irish politician thinking at its best. :pac:

Hagar · 27-12-2008 08:32PM

<3BeingIN6th wrote: »

It's akin to Cork nuking Kerry.

Interesting very interesting. How could we develop this idea?
Can we give Kerry nukes for a retaliatory strike?

Neamhshuntasach · 27-12-2008 08:51PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

'

Why not focus on the why, then? What is the desired endstated from the rocket-launchings and suicide bombings? What's the purpose? Do they really think that continued use of these tactics are going to result in a rectifying of the problems you list? Or is it more likely to reinforce the problem? What does the last 30 years tell us?

If' someone's way the hell bigger than you, you don't try using force against them. That's their advantage.

NTM

Why not focus on the why? Because the media never focuses on the why because they don't want people to know the why. It's the same reason they change the language for each side. Palestinians die and the headline is along the lines of, 20 Palestinians die in clashes with IDF. Some Israelis die and it's something like 3 Israelis massacred by Palestinian terrorists. Even when Palestinians die at the hands of ordinary Israeli citizens they are never named as terrorists and the event is never a massacre. Such as when Baruch Goldstein shot up the mosque at the cave of the patriarchs. If they world can turn a blind eye to Israels actions and only condemn Palestine, well then the problem is never gonna be solved. The same goes for Hamas firing rockets into Israel. It's just gonna be a vicious circle that goes back and forth. But when you are backed into a corner against a bigger aggressor you become desperate. And out of desperation comes the actions that the Palestinians partake in. If you don't have that mentality or have never been in that situation you will never really know what it's like. People like that don't see it from your perspective.

"If' someone's way the hell bigger than you, you don't try using force against them. That's their advantage."

Well the Israeli's believe in the story of David and Goliath. The roles were reversed back then and David fought against someone way the hell bigger than him.

galwayrush · 27-12-2008 08:59PM

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

"If' someone's way the hell bigger than you, you don't try using force against them. That's their advantage."

Well the Israeli's believe in the story of David and Goliath. The roles were reversed back then and David fought against someone way the hell bigger than him.

It's more like the small state of Israel with little more than 7 million people trying to defend itself and exist while surrounded by Muslim countries with populations of a few hundred million containing many millitants who would like to see Israel wiped off the map.

tallaght01 · 27-12-2008 09:10PM

wes wrote: »

try 1948 By Benny Morris (who is a right wing Zionist), that should provide your desired balance..

:rolleyes:

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Why not focus on the why? Because the media never focuses on the why because they don't want people to know the why. It's the same reason they change the language for each side. Palestinians die and the headline is along the lines of, 20 Palestinians die in clashes with IDF. Some Israelis die and it's something like 3 Israelis massacred by Palestinian terrorists. Even when Palestinians die at the hands of ordinary Israeli citizens they are never named as terrorists and the event is never a massacre. .

Wow, that's some paranoid head you have on you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

Look at the picture there. Look at the headlines beside the pic. "In pictures:Gaza under attack"....."Gaza malnutrition and shortages"......"UK voices concern over Gaza". All on the front page.

Then look at the MUCH less prominent piece about child malnutrition in Zimbabwe

Nodin · 27-12-2008 09:11PM

Biggins wrote: »

Why so?
When they go and fire their missiles from the roof tops of their Hamas police stations, properties, etc, do they expect not to get hit back!.

They don't fire them from there either, because they haven't the range.
You seem hell bent on not reading the article. Any reason?

Biggins wrote: »

This is the same organisation that produced a cheap mickey mouse character for childrens tv last year that showed him with a suicide bomb strapped to him and told them it was a good thing for them to do!
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1183053066461&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
!.

It doesn't contain that information in the article you linked. Bit of a pattern emerging here.

Biggins wrote: »

When your dealing with that type of pure sick mentality you can't reply to them on a normal rational level that would normally have a possible positive reaction.

Which is what one side says to demonise the other, presumably since time began. It's not very helpful to trying to find some solution to the problem, however.

IRISHRAIL wrote:

ha ha
I have it from good authorithy the best is yet to come for the scumlord child killing terrorist scum who call themselves palestinian freedom fighters

wait and see what happens next .

...that being said, clearly there are some bloodthirsty types on both sides.

Manic Moran wrote:

What's the purpose? Do they really think that continued use of these tactics are going to result in a rectifying of the problems you list? Or is it more likely to reinforce the problem? What does the last 30 years tell us?

If' someone's way the hell bigger than you, you don't try using force against them. That's their advantage..

They use anything up to live rifle and tank fire on protests in the West Bank. Secondly, in any lull, building activity in the OT accellerates. They're in a lose-lose situation.

Galwayrush wrote:

It's more like the small state of Israel with little more than 7 million people trying to defend itself and exist ..

Building civillian colonies in the OT is not 'defending itself'. Slowly driving out the Palestinian population of Arab East Jerusalem is not 'defending itself'. Letting its extremist settlers run riot is not 'defending itself'.

Biggins · 27-12-2008 09:18PM

Nodin wrote: »

"I know everything and the rest of ye are talking codswallop... I'm a wanna be expert!"

Yawn...

dlofnep · 27-12-2008 09:20PM

tallaght01 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Wow, that's some paranoid head you have on you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

Look at the picture there. Look at the headlines beside the pic. "In pictures:Gaza under attack"....."Gaza malnutrition and shortages"......"UK voices concern over Gaza". All on the front page.

Then look at the MUCH less prominent piece about child malnutrition in Zimbabwe

Sorry, but he has a point with the media. The media is highly skewed in favour of Israel. Especially western media.

dlofnep · 27-12-2008 09:22PM

Biggins wrote: »

Yawn...

Instead of wasting bandwidth with yawning, how about just not posting? You've already demonstrated a lack of very basic skills when debating this topic.. You've nothing to offer, and yawning and rolling your eyes isn't going to strengthen your debate any further.

Biggins · 27-12-2008 09:22PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Sorry, but he has a point with the media. The media is highly skewed in favour of Israel. Especially western media.

In that we do agree. As for the rest - I'm up for debating, not being petty and vicious.
That just starts flame wars - me not going there. No one becomes a winner.

galwayrush · 27-12-2008 09:22PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Sorry, but he has a point with the media. The media is highly skewed in favour of Israel. Especially western media.

I expect the muslim countries media to be the opposite.:rolleyes:

arse..biscuits · 27-12-2008 09:23PM

Israel has to fight to the death every time it gets into a war because if they ever lose and are over run they will be wiped of the face of the earth. I can't think of another country that has that kind of threat hanging over them.

Remember that whole cartoon of Mohammad thing, there was protests in Palestinian areas with posters saying "Death to all westerners". That includes me and you. They are not the most reasonable of people.

dlofnep · 27-12-2008 09:25PM

arse..biscuits wrote: »

Israel has to fight to the death every time it gets into a war because if they ever lose and are over run they will be wiped of the face of the earth. I can't think of another country that has that kind of threat hanging over them.

Remember that whole cartoon of Mohammad thing, there was protests in Palestinian areas with posters saying "Death to all westerners". That includes me and you. They are not the most reasonable of people.

Extremism exists in all walks of life. Palestinian people are just people. People who have been brought up in an extreme set of circumstances. Don't judge unless you've walked a day in their shoes.

dlofnep · 27-12-2008 09:27PM

galwayrush wrote: »

I expect the muslim countries media to be the opposite.:rolleyes:

Since when was Britain of the USA, or Ireland even jewish states? That's the difference. Rupert Murdoch controls western media and displays Palestinians as militant cavemen, while Israelis are defenders of noble and just causes.

Biggins · 27-12-2008 09:27PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Extremism exists in all walks of life. Palestinian people are just people. People who have been brought up in an extreme set of circumstances. Don't judge unless you've walked a day in their shoes.

Extremism whatever the cause and level of madness don't mean its still right - and that applies to both sides.

IRISH RAIL · 27-12-2008 09:27PM

youre a far cry from palestine living in waterford :rolleyes:

Nodin · 27-12-2008 09:29PM

Biggins wrote: »

Yawn...

Don't put in quotes what I didn't say.

Is there any reason you're trying to drag this to the level of personal abuse rather than address any of the points made?

Biggins wrote: »

I'm up for debating, not being petty and vicious...

Then you'll be deleting the offending effort and treating of the issues in future then.....

arse-bisuits wrote:

Israel has to fight to the death every time it gets into a war because if they ever lose and are over run they will be wiped of the face of the earth. I can't think of another country that has that kind of threat hanging over them. ...

Who is trying to overrun Israel at this point in time? Because I'm reasonably sure theres no Palestinian check points in Tel Aviv to protect their settlers there....

galwayrush · 27-12-2008 09:29PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Since when was Britain of the USA, or Ireland even jewish states? That's the difference. Rupert Murdoch controls western media and displays Palestinians as militant cavemen, while Israelis are defenders of noble and just causes.

I never said Western media wasn't biased towards Israel, merely stated that i expect an Islamic controlled media to be biased towards Palestine.

Biggins · 27-12-2008 09:32PM

Given that there is clearly one sided strong views about the current situation, is there any chance we could talk instead about possible workable solutions instead of taking pot-shots at each other (Yes, I'm guilty too).

It might be less entertaining for others to read but at least we won't get our collective asses banned.
(and the wife likes my ass, she hates to see it whipped unless she's doing it!)

galwayrush · 27-12-2008 09:33PM

Biggins wrote: »

Given that there is clearly one sided strong views about the current situation, is there any chance we could talk instead about possible workable solutions instead of taking pot-shots at each other (Yes, I'm guilty too).

It might be less entertaining for others to read but at least we won't get our collective asses banned.
(and the wife likes my ass, she hates to see it whipped unless she's doing it!)

Let them do the Christian thing.:D

Biggins · 27-12-2008 09:34PM

galwayrush wrote: »

Let them do the Christian thing.:D

I shoulda seen that coming! :pac:

Tipsy Mac · 27-12-2008 09:35PM

I think the only peaceful solution would be for the Russians or Chinese to supply the Palestinians with Fighter Planes, Attack Helicopters and Tanks in the same way that the Americans supply the Israelis with them. Also if the Palestinians had about 20 Nukes it would bring peace to the region in the same way it has to India and Pakistan, Russia and America etc...

Countdown to the Bomb

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