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Comments

  • #332
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,533 ✭✭✭SV


    teetotaller wrote: »
    So u presume that I'm in wrong thread right ?

    but it is all right for u as moderator when other people are offending immigrants, saying stupid racists things and screaming that we took your jobs ?

    I understand, that some of us made competition to you offering good quality for less, but u should stay calm at immigrants matter cos of your function here.

    jaysus ya talk some shoite.


  • #333
    teetotaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 188 ✭✭teetotaller


    ClioV6 wrote: »
    jaysus ya talk some shoite.

    shoite happens :(

    going back to thread
    I was reading Polish forums and dobody believes that 1/3 of us will go back to our country now or shortly.

    For sure few thousands people go back as they lost jobs and can't speak english at all. All other requilify or open their own small businesses.
    1 year ago i knew only one Polish person who bought house here - 5 friends of mine already bought house in Ireland :)


  • #334
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    teetotaller wrote: »
    So u presume that I'm in wrong thread right ?

    but it is all right for u as moderator when other people are offending immigrants, saying stupid racists things and screaming that we took your jobs ?

    After hours is a bit like "The Sun" newspaper, not to be taken seriously!

    Sometimes, We (Boardsies including mods) need to remember that humour doesn't always translate correctly!


  • #335
    ZzubZzub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 444 ✭✭ZzubZzub


    Where's the "I'm Irish, and I've left, fuck you all!" option in the poll?! :p


  • #336
    sillysasauge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 166 ✭✭sillysasauge


    Cleeo wrote: »
    Where's the "I'm Irish, and I've left, fuck you all!" option in the poll?! :p

    OMG ROFL:D:D:D:p


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  • #337
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    teetotaller wrote: »
    So u presume that I'm in wrong thread right ?

    but it is all right for u as moderator when other people are offending immigrants, saying stupid racists things and screaming that we took your jobs ?

    I understand, that some of us made competition to you offering good quality for less, but u should stay calm at immigrants matter cos of your function here.
    Relax there dude.
    I was just making a joke about the ad in the youtube clip.


  • #338
    PeterLT
    Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭PeterLT


    drakshug wrote: »
    Cmon petras. The Lithuanians and Latvians are Balts. The Estonians are Finno Ugric but all three countries are the Baltic states.
    I get what you mean though. The Estonians can understand Finnish.
    Still, Birzietiskai is the Lithuanian I learnt and I can get by understanding Latvians.
    I'm a Scot who spent 12 years in Lithuania.Speak it Fluently.
    I doubt if many Lithuanians want to go back the state the country is in now.

    So you know our culture? How do you like?

    No, I don't think that many Lithuanians will go back home. It's hard to say 50/50. A year ago people started to reimmigrate, the were a rumour that many Lithuanians will be heading home and it will be hard to get a job in Lithuania. Latvians left Ireland first as the boom started earlier. But that boom is in history... Like everywere


  • #339
    brian ireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭brian ireland


    I have worked with Polish and Czech people since 2002. I have met and made friends with loads of them, I even had the pleasure of going to a Czech wedding. I will be sad to see them go home, but they are very hard working people and will do well wherever the go...


  • #340
    nortal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭nortal


    teetotaller wrote: »
    Czesc !!


    So I went through all 20few pages of this thread and I'm shocked
    It is going to be quite long post so don't read it if u get bored to quickly.

    First of all thanks to all of you who wants us to stay here in your country.

    I can't understand why some of you have so short memory. Just look at number of Irish people who emigrated to US few decades ago - would it be nice for you to hear that u make no contribution to country while u work very hard ? would it be nice for you to hear, that u live 10 people in one apartment ? I'm pretty sure -not. Did you already forget that your economy was so strong for last few years mostly becouse of US and Uk companies who decided to have here in Ireland their headquaters for all Europe? Headquaters as well for Polish branches of these companies.

    What is Ireland producing, manufacturing apart of pork, Guiness and Jameson?

    as far as I remember u don't have many irish owned international companies - there are only few like Ryanair.
    I don't remember any threads where u were complaining about American immigrants - is it becouse they give u jobs , houses and cars ?

    So if u agree with that what I wrote above why you are complaining that we took yer jobs if a lot of companies we work in are not Irish ?

    I'll base this post on my own life. - When I arrived to Dublin 4,5 years ago I had 350 euro in my pocket. no job, no place to stay. just week earlier I gor my bachelor degree in IT related discipline. My language was poor, however it was communicative. It took me one day to get job in timber factory. I didn't have money to rent a house or even room for myself. So for the first 2 months I was living in 3 bed house with 8 other people
    It wasn't good experience for me, but I survived.

    I don't have rich parents like many of you and 350e I got from them was like a small fortune for me and for them. So I can't understand your jokes about 10 people in one place. after 1st year I bought old car (middle 90's ) as at this stage I was earnig about 18-19k per year)during time I spent in timber factory I improved my English, finished fe courses, passed Networking certificate Cisco ccna that costed me 1,5k) and started looking for a first job in IT. I got it in September 2005. with no previous work experience) - in last 3 years, I rented house - I live there only with my wife , changed job 7 times(including second weekend job - 7 days per week) , passed many IT courses ( I spent on courses and exams and book nearly 10k up to date ) and contribute to Irish goverment nearly 1k euros per month + my wife pay about 450 euros of tax every single month.

    Why I'm telling all these ? Cos I don't agree with voices that we are useless for Irish Economy.
    Thanks to us Irish people started opening new businesses, were promoted to managers positions, started earning more money. We go for holidays with irish companies ( I prefer uk actually as Irish are rip.off.ie ),buy 2nd hand cars - so u Irish can get new ones, go to the cinema, we are learning english and pay a lot of money for courses, etc etc, etc.
    If employee gets minimal wage it doesn't mean that he or she doesn't contribute any money to tax office. - it means that boss of this employee had to be promoted and now he or she is paying more money. Also company if it is Irish company leave more money for themselves and it is spent In Ireland.

    If so many of you think that without immigrants Economy could grow and grow - why employers are hiring immigrants ?
    becouse we are cheap ? - no it is a bullsh**t - Dunnes Tesco employees get the same money doesn't matter if u are Polish or Irish.

    We can't speak your language well but we get jobs - strange isn't it ?

    Some time ago I applied for a weekend position in Currys- there were 3 positions - there were about 15 people - 3 Polish and 12 Irish - we all 3 were wearing suits (interview) all Irish were dressed in Adidas from feet to head.
    you can guess who got job...

    We took yer jobs. I hear it very often mostly from people who are on Social welfare and never worked before. ...

    Iamxavier - think why u can't get job ? maybe u are too lazy to get job ? Did u finish any courses? can u speak second language? Did u ever offer to employer - give me job for one day I'll proof u what I'm worth - and if u won't be happy u won't pay me ? - I did it once and I got job.

    Some of you wrote that we don't give to Ireland any cultural things or any other.
    I personally did - Informed few people from timber factory that Poland is not in Asia and we don't have cyrilic alphabet.....


    Another interesting fact for me is that complainers are only people who don't have any educational background, who preferred to go to work to get 00 honda civic rather then finish college.
    I met a lot of good Irish specialists thanks to whom I'm on 60k+ salary now, I learnt from them a lot. All my work colleagues were never dissapointed of fact that so many Polish people is living in Ireland.


    Am I right saying that only Irish scumbags see problem with immigrants ?
    I think that everyone who is jus a little smarter than a scumbag should not have any problem with job if we immigrant still can get it.


    Time is changing, life is changing, world is changing as well - you won't get job just becouse u exists. If we can - you my Irish friends can do the same.


    I would not be happy if somebody would tell straight to me - go home u are useless for us. I live here, have Irish and Polish friends here, getting mortgage in Ireland, got married in Ireland - I need Ireland and Ireland needs me as well. Thats what I feel.

    Please forgive my my English. I'm only an immigrant :)


    To suggest that the listed products are the only ones manufactured by Irish companies is simply wrong and purposely condescending. Larger US and other multinational companies are here producing, some are Irish owned some are partiality Irish owned.

    More software is produced in Ireland than any where else in the world even in silicone valley in the states. Irish companies regularly lead the way in innovation, as you have used Ryan air, between both Ryan air and Aer Lingus Ireland the two largest passenger airlines in the world, from a population of 3.5 million. Multi national have their HQ in Ireland for a good reason, educational & highly motivated workforce, who despite the popular myth do work very hard.

    The economic revolution in this country began in late 1995 early 1996, five years before the eastern accession countries became members of the EU. Ireland needed workers, other nationalities need jobs to suggest that the influx of labour started the boom is inaccurate as me suggesting that Poland is a third would country it is simply wrong and shows a larger level of ignorance.

    Ireland has produced people who have substantially contributed to countries across the globe, Argentina, Mexico, across Europe, Australia United States etc.

    In the states the Irish people have more than any other nationality provided a social and cultural input to the US identity. The Fire and Police department the education system in working class areas, political life and many other areas (like crime Irish mafia were more dangerous and more powerful than their Italian counter parts)

    Accession countries have yet to have the same level of impact which is understandable as it’s only five years since entry, Irish people through their personality made the effort, in my experience polish workers don’t seem to make the effort to integrate.

    There appears to be a growing level of anti Irish sediment from immigrant workers. No one has suggested that immigrant workers are useless/not appreciated to/by the Irish economy/people. There are a lot of nasty generalisation and consdeedding comments about Irish people in your post. If someone wishes to finish college then good for them if they don’t its none of your business. All nationalities including the Irish are entitled to make observations on how their country is governed.

    The generosity of the Irish who ARE NOT RACIST to open and invite over 10% of their population into their county in less than five years (it took France 30 years to achieve this). Should be acknowledged by immigrant workers, instead of whinging and moaning, maybe a simple thank you would be better.


  • #341
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    nortal wrote: »
    ...like crime Irish mafia were more dangerous and more powerful than their Italian counter parts...
    Is that supposed to be a good thing?
    nortal wrote: »
    ...in my experience polish workers don’t seem to make the effort to integrate.
    ...
    There are a lot of nasty generalisation and consdeedding comments about Irish people in your post.
    :rolleyes:
    Pot, kettle.


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  • #342
    nortal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭nortal


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Is that supposed to be a good thing?
    :rolleyes:
    Pot, kettle.


    As the quote says in MY EXPERIENCE poles do not make the effort, and I have been working with polish people since late 2002, and not one or two, but over 75. The condescending attitudes of the poster are related to what THEY have written in their post.


    But from your previous post accession countries immigrant population are perfect


  • #343
    Tchaikovsky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭Tchaikovsky


    Look, there are going to be arseholes from every nation - as an example I was working in a hotel in Iceland last summer (doing low-paid immigrant work!) and I was working with 3 Polish people; 2 were sound, one was a bit of an arse. That's the way it goes. From their history, there is going to be an element of insularity / coldness.

    Anywa, what's the deal with Euro 2012; have they started building the stadiums yet? Doubtless, that will bring alot of natives (and Irish) to Poland.


  • #344
    Tchaikovsky
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭Tchaikovsky


    And by the way, Ireland is one of the most welcoming and tolerant countries on earth and we should be proud of that.
    The only other country to my knowledge who has seen as big an influx of immigrants in the same time period is Spain (i.e a 10% increase in population since 2004); similar recent economic history etc. and they've seen a sharp increase in racist tension and violence since the downturn in it's economy. See Greece also.
    Expressing concern on how a small, historically homogenous country of 3.5 million people can cope with the sudden impact of the accession of a poor region of 73 million is not racist, it's common sense!


  • #345
    Quickfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭Quickfire


    Fair play to you, you saved me time.


  • #346
    jan_kowalski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭jan_kowalski


    nortal wrote: »
    There appears to be a growing level of anti Irish sediment from immigrant workers. No one has suggested that immigrant workers are useless/not appreciated to/by the Irish economy/people. There are a lot of nasty generalisation and consdeedding comments about Irish people in your post. If someone wishes to finish college then good for them if they don’t its none of your business. All nationalities including the Irish are entitled to make observations on how their country is governed.

    Fully agree.
    Teetotaller sounded too harsh in my opinion too (I am the best and you suck!), however this might not be his intention, that's what you get when english is not your 1st language and you let slip your words slightly wrong way. Teetotaller you should not be saying Irish wearing tracksuits at interview, for me this is b*ll*x, probably just your imagination?
    Better look at yours (and mine!) countrymates wearing Lidl's bags in the gym, LOL :D
    nortal wrote: »
    The generosity of the Irish who ARE NOT RACIST to open and invite over 10% of their population into their county in less than five years (it took France 30 years to achieve this). Should be acknowledged by immigrant workers, instead of whinging and moaning, maybe a simple thank you would be better.

    If you ever read my previous posts here this is what I said before.
    Appreciation is huge, no doubt about it and only serious polish kna*k*rs would say any bad word at Irish people.
    I'd say teetotaller was touched by few spiky comments here and was carried away a liitle bit in his response...
    I'm getting what he was trying to say and his point, but should have used few lines less and cut this 'me' 'they' story a bit...
    Am I right m8?


  • #347
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭maninasia


    jan_kowalski wrote: »
    This is actually very good point mate.
    Replacing 100 thousands deli makers would not probably be a big hassle as everyone would be trained up within 2 days time, but try to replace number of skilled professionals within this group? How can you train up guy with no clues whatsoever to high-level job in no time?

    The reason why Ireland invited EU immigrants in 2004 was indeed because of shortage of skilled workforce in the first place!
    Shortage of IT people, finances people, construction engineers, etc. etc.
    There was also need for non-skilled workers to fill up unwanted vacancies in low-paid industries like bars, hotels, etc. as booming Irish economy pushed Irish people up the ladder and there was scarcely anyone willing to do 8 per hour job.

    There is one more point to this discussion.
    Ireland is part of EU. Ireland took massive money out from EU and used it to boom and grow over past years.
    One of the basic prinicples and ideas of EU is free flow of goods, services and money. Now, since 2004 Poland is EU member as well. Poland takes more money now than pays to EU but that will change in next 5 or 10 years and there will be another turn to support another developing EU country like maybe Turkey if they ever join in... (let's assume so just for the example).

    Therefore you just can't simply block workforce or anything of that sort.
    If you want to block everyone and live on your own you would need sign out from EU and possibly pay billions of Euros back that was given you by Germany, France, Holland, Belgium etc. etc. How does it sound huh?
    This is just nonsense I know it and you know it. Sadly I'm afraid people like Sam06 hardly understand any of those...

    I see where you are coming from and I have nothing against migrating for employment especially as you are EU citizens. However the fact is that the vast majority of Polish immigrants would not be classed as 'skilled' migrants, they were mostly here for service and construction industry. You must take into account the vast difference in salary and population between Ireland and Poland.. 4 million to 73 million. The government should force all social welfare recipients to get a job after 3 months out of work so they are not a drain on our resources. This is the government's fault, people naturally are lazy and would rather get money for nothing. I don't blame Poles for taking advantage of a chance to get a better life, but that is because of the Irish government's corruption (they are linked to business here which wanted flexible labour and increased population and a quick boost to property prices and economic spending) and lack of planning. AFAIK, Ireland, Spain and the UK were the only countries to open up to migration to accession states in the EU. I don't think there is any other small country in the world like Ireland that would have done that. There should be immigration from every country in the world allowed into Ireland it's just the numbers should be controllled and they should be vetted by a 'skills' system just like Canada, US, Australia etc to maintain some control over our social and economic structure.


  • #348
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭maninasia


    af_thefragile wrote: »
    well, its gonna give the knackers something to feel good about.

    Though we'll also finally find out if those lazy ass bugger's jobs were really taken away from the immigrants...

    "They're taking away all of our jobs!!!!!.... Wait, what? they're gone?! Crap, we've gotta work now!!!"

    I got a good laugh out of this!


  • #349
    jan_kowalski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭jan_kowalski


    maninasia wrote: »
    I see where you are coming from and I have nothing against migrating for employment especially as you are EU citizens. However the fact is that the vast majority of Polish immigrants would not be classed as 'skilled' migrants, they were mostly here for service and construction industry. You must take into account the vast difference in salary and population between Ireland and Poland.. 4 million to 73 million. The government should force all social welfare recipients to get a job after 3 months out of work so they are not a drain on our resources. This is the government's fault, people naturally are lazy and would rather get money for nothing. I don't blame Poles for taking advantage of a chance to get a better life, but that is because of the Irish government's corruption (they are linked to business here which wanted flexible labour and increased population and a quick boost to property prices and economic spending) and lack of planning. AFAIK, Ireland, Spain and the UK were the only countries to open up to migration to accession states in the EU. I don't think there is any other small country in the world like Ireland that would have done that. There should be immigration from every country in the world allowed into Ireland it's just the numbers should be controllled and they should be vetted by a 'skills' system just like Canada, US, Australia etc to maintain some control over our social and economic structure.

    I know where you are coming from, but there are few major holes in the way you think about it.

    1. There are not 73 milions of poles, population of Poland is approx. 38 milions now - still loads, but twice less than you stated!

    2. If government forces all payments to stop after 3 months of dole - fair play to them, but it would have to be applied to Irish as well! Dole is not based on nationality and pretty face but on PRSI contributions.
    There is no Pole, who will be getting here social welfare for ages with no work done before.
    To qualify for the dole you need to have 52 PRSI weeks paid then you getting dole after for the fixed amount of time.
    If governemnt made such calculations, then whoever meets those numbers, does not matter if he is yellow, black, red, white, Polish, Irish or Nigerian - is allowed to use it, simple as that - because he has already contributed to the society required minimum.
    If that calculations made by government are ending up with public money drainage - then it's the governemnt fault - not people.
    It's up to them to establish fair rules and rules which would not abuse their own system for heaven's sake!
    And then to take control over it afterwards and fish dodgy people.

    3. There are actually more countries opened up for immigration now than you are saying. I'm not sure what are you reffering to saying only UK, Spain and Ireland?
    Do you reffer current 2008 or rather 2004? In 2004 there were few more to it like Sweden.
    Sweden is also small country like Ireland - so here we are with your example of another small 'like Irlenad' country which opened up fully for immigration. Another one? Netherlands - roughly size of Ireland. Another one? Belgium.

    So your theory fails here mate...

    If we talk present days then we and you are allowed to work in pretty much all of the EU countries (Germany is still partially blocking EU workforce till 2011 - they will not be able to do so after this date). Irish can work in whole Europe and whole Europe can work in Ireland.

    4. Usa or Australia is completely different story. They are not in EU. People from United States of America do not need any skills or visa system to work in any other of their united states like people from Newy York can take up anytime job in Boston.
    These visas rules are for people from outside US or Australia - retrospectively.
    EU was brought onto same base idea - united countries of Europe so this is why you cannot use any skills or visas system within because it's against the whole idea of creating and having EU in the first place.

    5. EU planned to make all participating countries equally good in terms of quality of life, salaries, taxes, etc. This is long process and you will not match Poland and Ireland quickly, Ireland has been in EU for over 30 years, Poland for 4 years. Poland is 10 times bigger. It was much easier to change small country like Ireland in 30 years, you can't expect mircales in big Poland after 4 years, can you?
    If their idea of equality is achieved then you would not have much worries as wherever you go within EU you would get roughly same money and living standards - however this is not a case yet.

    Hope this clears out a bit..
    Cheers! :D


  • #350
    iwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭iwo


    maninasia -

    1. "4 million to 73 million" where did you take this figures from?? The population in Poland is aprox 39 million!!

    2. " I don't blame Poles for taking advantage of a chance to get a better life, but..." How many Irish people emigrated to USA and Australia? You could probably double Polish population and get number of Irish living in USA!!
    Are you blind ? Recession is everywhere, this is not just Ireland. On top of that, if all emigrants leave, who is going to pay tax's, mortgages, rents, food, cars, etc. Did you take all of these things for consideration? Thisngs would go worse, belive me.

    Somebody mentioned this before. The "noisest" people unhapy with emigrants, saying "your'ar taking our jobs" are eighter not educated, non workers, not interested in upgrading skils etc. Yaping is easiests thing to do, just bale somebody for this situation!!

    I leave here for more than 4 fears and I am proud of that. I have never experienced any racism etc. Irish people are veeeery tolerant and understanding, but some comments are just unfair. But idiots are everywhere... In Poland, Ireland, USA etc. I do my best to avoid them.

    Have a good day!!


  • #351
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    maninasia wrote: »
    However the fact is that the vast majority of Polish immigrants would not be classed as 'skilled' migrants...
    Really? According to this report on the 2006 census, 54% of Polish nationals living in Ireland describe themselves as either "semi-skilled", "manual skilled" or "professional". Do you know something they don't?
    maninasia wrote: »
    The government should force all social welfare recipients to get a job after 3 months out of work so they are not a drain on our resources.
    "Force"? How will that work?
    maninasia wrote: »
    There should be immigration from every country in the world allowed into Ireland it's just the numbers should be controllled and they should be vetted by a 'skills' system just like Canada, US, Australia etc to maintain some control over our social and economic structure.
    Control over our social and economic structure? What does that mean exactly? How will an immigration system based on "skills" fit into this "structure"?


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  • #352
    hot2def
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭hot2def


    nortal wrote: »

    In the states the Irish people have more than any other nationality provided a social and cultural input to the US identity. The Fire and Police department the education system in working class areas, political life and many other areas (like crime Irish mafia were more dangerous and more powerful than their Italian counter parts)


    b0llox. I think you'll find that would be the Mexicans - who get overlooked in this regard because they aren't white.


  • #353
    nortal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭nortal


    hot2def wrote: »
    b0llox. I think you'll find that would be the Mexicans - who get overlooked in this regard because they aren't white.



    Irish people have contributed to the listed areas FACT, so have other nationalities - don't think it has anything to do with skin colour. The argument was used to indicate that as immigrant in a foreign country the Irish people didn't sit back complain about the Americans instead integrated into American society, by joining the NYPD and Fire Departments set up schools etc etc, I could go on and on, whether the Irish or Mexicans contributed more is personnel preference.


  • #354
    komodosp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭komodosp


    I don't understand why people are glad they are leaving. The ones who are staying and making a life here, all they are doing is increasing the population and contributing as much as they are taking (at least to the same extent as any Irish person). If there was a population boom we wouldn't all be bitter with that generation for "takin er jobs"

    But the ones who are leaving - the ones who lived here in relative poverty because they were sending all the money they earned back to their own country - they're the ones we should be pissed off with.


  • #355
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    I'm Irish and worked in another non-English speaking EU country for 5 years in the software industry so I feel somewhat qualified to post here.
    nortal wrote: »
    To suggest that the listed products are the only ones manufactured by Irish companies is simply wrong and purposely condescending. Larger US and other multinational companies are here producing, some are Irish owned some are partiality Irish owned.

    Very few are Irish owned. The OP is correct.
    nortal wrote: »
    More software is produced in Ireland than any where else in the world even in silicone valley in the states.

    Because of Microsoft translation centre in Dublin. And BTW I don't believe this statistic anyway.
    nortal wrote: »
    Irish companies regularly lead the way in innovation,

    Yes but so do other countries.
    nortal wrote: »
    as you have used Ryan air, between both Ryan air and Aer Lingus Ireland the two largest passenger airlines in the world, from a population of 3.5 million.

    Emm, don't think so. Ryanair is pretty big but nowhere near top 2 in the world - funny how most Irish people give out about Mick O'Leary, he's out there beating the world. Aer Lingus, well they'll last another 6 months tops before being taken over.
    nortal wrote: »
    Multi national have their HQ in Ireland for a good reason, educational & highly motivated workforce, who despite the popular myth do work very hard.

    Don't you mean 'educated' ? 'Multinational' is one word. They came originally because of these reasons plus huge tax incentives and close EU integration (which BTW it seems we think we don't need anymore).

    Back in the mid 90's most Irish people were hungry for work and motivated to succeed - like the Poles today. That generation still works hard paying off jumbo mortgages and feeding families now. The next generation had it easy and are far more laid back about work. I well believe the tracksuit story. This will change again as the recession kicks in. For now Eastern Europeans here can earn engineers and doctors salaries working in McDonalds. That will change too .... personally I think you will see prices falling here next year as the shops reel from no-one buying anything in Ireland anymore.

    nortal wrote: »
    The economic revolution in this country began in late 1995 early 1996, five years before the eastern accession countries became members of the EU. Ireland needed workers, other nationalities need jobs to suggest that the influx of labour started the boom is inaccurate as me suggesting that Poland is a third would country it is simply wrong and shows a larger level of ignorance.

    This is correct. However the boom would have ended more quickly without the workers. Maybe that would have been a good thing on balance, who knows?
    nortal wrote: »
    Ireland has produced people who have substantially contributed to countries across the globe, Argentina, Mexico, across Europe, Australia United States etc.

    So have other countries. There's always a Kowalski in every hollywood film LOL.

    nortal wrote: »
    In the states the Irish people have more than any other nationality provided a social and cultural input to the US identity. The Fire and Police department the education system in working class areas, political life and many other areas (like crime Irish mafia were more dangerous and more powerful than their Italian counter parts)

    The best criminals - something to be proud of.
    nortal wrote: »
    Accession countries have yet to have the same level of impact which is understandable as it’s only five years since entry, Irish people through their personality made the effort, in my experience polish workers don’t seem to make the effort to integrate.

    Yes there is some truth in this - although I have seen Irish communities abroad and they're not great at integrating either despite what you might believe. Sure they can integrate well in the US and Australia but in non-English speaking countries a lot of them go to the same few pubs and speak English to each other.
    nortal wrote: »
    There appears to be a growing level of anti Irish sediment from immigrant workers. No one has suggested that immigrant workers are useless/not appreciated to/by the Irish economy/people. There are a lot of nasty generalisation and consdeedding comments about Irish people in your post. If someone wishes to finish college then good for them if they don’t its none of your business. All nationalities including the Irish are entitled to make observations on how their country is governed.

    Agree except your first sentence - I don't see the evidence for this. Considering the numbers here there are zero problems.
    nortal wrote: »
    The generosity of the Irish who ARE NOT RACIST to open and invite over 10% of their population into their county in less than five years (it took France 30 years to achieve this). Should be acknowledged by immigrant workers, instead of whinging and moaning, maybe a simple thank you would be better.

    This was due to the incompetence of the Irish government rather than any fantastic planning and friendliness. Bertie didn't do an Eastern European tour with the Cead Mile Failte.


  • #356
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    komodosp wrote: »
    I don't understand why people are glad they are leaving. The ones who are staying and making a life here, all they are doing is increasing the population and contributing as much as they are taking (at least to the same extent as any Irish person). If there was a population boom we wouldn't all be bitter with that generation for "takin er jobs"

    But the ones who are leaving - the ones who lived here in relative poverty because they were sending all the money they earned back to their own country - they're the ones we should be pissed off with.
    Immigrants can't win in some people's eyes. If they stay, they're accused of sponging off the state, stealing jobs, driving down wages, etc. If they leave, they're accused of "milking the economy". Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


  • #357
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Guys, stop knee jerking. I am just telling you I prefer controlled immigration as is my right as a citizen of a country. I don't think there has been any control really and that will feedback into racism down the line. I know the EU doesn't work like that but that's just my personal viewpoint. We speak English in UK and Ireland and that makes us a more attractive place to immigrate. Because Ireland also has a small population and because of the way the immigration policy was implemented with most countries opting out there was a disproportionate immigration into Ireland in a short time. We need more skilled workers in our country and we should encourage skilled workers to move here, first for the EU and then from other countries.
    My statement about cutting social welfare after 3 months was aimed at everybody, I pointedly didn't say Irish, Poles, Latvians etc, you guys are putting words in my mouth. I know there that 99% of the wasters in Ireland are local Irish and they need to get off their a%s and go to work instead of making babies and living off the state.
    I live in Asia with no social welfare system and I had to show my skills and education in order to get a job here. Worked hard (most days) and learned the local language and customs. Same like most countries around the world. My wife is Asian and sometime we will move back to Ireland. I welcome foreigners to come to Ireland I'm just afraid about lack of integration and racism growing if the policy is not well thought out.
    I'm sorry for making a mistake about Polish population and I LIKE Polish people, don't get me wrong. What I am saying is about all immigration really. The Irish government is incompetent, their thinking is very short-term and election oriented. They should have a strategy to avoid the problems of integration and ghettoisation that plagues other European countries. Why do you think the Lisbon treaty didn't pass? I would have voted for it actually but most of the 'silent PC majority' of Irish are afraid to say what I write and are much more racist than me with their crude comments about foreigners (I don't believe I am too racist although I believe pretty much everybody is a little bit racist in some way, it's human nature).


  • #358
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    maninasia wrote: »
    I don't think there has been any control really and that will feedback into racism down the line.
    Racism is an irrational concept and, as such, I fail to see why we should do anything to appease racists.
    maninasia wrote: »
    We need more skilled workers in our country and we should encourage skilled workers to move here, first for the EU and then from other countries.
    And the way to achieve that is to restrict immigration? :confused:
    maninasia wrote: »
    I welcome foreigners to come to Ireland I'm just afraid about lack of integration and racism growing if the policy is not well thought out.
    Define “integration”.
    maninasia wrote: »
    The Irish government is incompetent, their thinking is very short-term and election oriented.
    Which obviously reflects the thinking of the electorate, considering FF are now in their third consecutive term in government.
    maninasia wrote: »
    They should have a strategy to avoid the problems of integration and ghettoisation that plagues other European countries.
    What would such a strategy entail?


  • #359
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭maninasia


    The strategy should be limit immigration numbers per year as does Canada, Australia and the US and implement a point system based on EU membership, education level and skillset which is modified year to year according to economic and employment conditions. Racism is not rational yet it exists as a fundamental part of human nature, ignoring it doesn't fix it. Recognising we are all a bit racist keeps us humble and reminds us to that we all need to do better and check ourselves from time to time. Integration is about speaking the local language(s), having local friends and acquaintances and being able to avail of the same rights and priviledges of local born people. Integration means their kids think they are Irish or at least half-Irish no matter what the background. Integration means respecting traditional Irish culture when it's good and moaning about it when it's bad. Integration means not seeing schools like in West Dublin where almost all the schoolchildren are foreign born because locals don't want to send their kid there. How to do it, not easy but there's got to be some success stories from other countries. I resent PC people like you who don't admit the reality of the situation.


  • #360
    nortal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭nortal


    The post wasn’t suggesting that Irish people are better than everybody else; I think you are quoting the post out of context yes other countries lead the way in innovation but so does Ireland. There are more companies in Ireland other than Microsoft, what about the pharmaceutical industry in the south, we could go on but it’s open to conjecture


    Aer lingus and Ryanair are among the largest once the take over is complete they will be. Not bad for a country of uneducated, lazy, drink filled micks



    Companies are here to make profits its makes the world go around some like it some don’t. Some people in Ireland are pro EU btw.

    The boom should have in hindsight being extended by reducing housing output, but with the recession in the financial markets that too could have created a greater housing shortage.


    On the criminal thing I don’t think Irish people would be proud of but it is a fact, which shows Irish people are not perfect


    The post I think was one sided and unbalanced this entire thread seems to be based on an untrue and very unfair description of Irish people. All Irish people are lazy, unmotivated, and greedy; all immigrants are the flawless, perfect and can do no wrong. From living aboard we both know the majority in every country irrespective of there nationality work hard for what they have.

    What motivated me to post, I think is ok to call Irish people greedy, lazy etc, but if you replace Irish with polish or another nationality, then all hell breaks loose. This is not right and too PC for my liking.

    Not sure what the last two points are


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  • #361
    iwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭iwo


    maninasia Sorry but again, I think you are blind... And have poor memory. Do U remember joining EU?? Did somebody stop you from going abroad? Did somebody ask you to leave country due to restrictions?? The answer is NO This is the idea of EU.... With no EU you would be probably still eating potatoes!! - (I am not being rude)

    Short memory??


This discussion has been closed.
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