Are Athiests evil?

martinstuart · 13-12-2008 12:15PM

The way I understand it, "evil" means completely lacking in good.

Nobody is completely lacking in good. Though sometimes some of our actions are evil.

I speak as a Catholic, who loves God and knows in his heart God loves everyone--equally, atheist or not, catholic or not. So why be a catholic? Isn't it better to be an atheist and not have anything 'forced' on you? Being 'religious' is simply a genuine response to the Love and knowledge of God and his/her unflinching goodness. It's a voluntary response. It's an inadequate response but it's a good response.

I urge everyone, atheists and believers, to 'wonder' more.

Silenceisbliss · 13-12-2008 12:19PM

Yes, atheists are evil because we think outside the box and have our own belief system.

Bravo. You get a gold star for being unfathomably ignorant.

rockbeer · 13-12-2008 01:12PM

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

Yes, atheists are evil because we think outside the box and have our own belief system.

Could you explain what exactly is this atheist belief system?

Speaking as an atheist, I don't accept there's any such thing.

PDN · 13-12-2008 01:39PM

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

Yes, atheists are evil because we think outside the box and have our own belief system.

Bravo. You get a gold star for being unfathomably ignorant.

Who are you talking to? The atheist who asked the original question in the OP?

CDfm · 13-12-2008 05:23PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Because I was raised in a Christian-majority country. I'm sure I'd be thanking Mohammad or Buddha or Vishnu if I were from another land.

But you are an atheist now arent you?

What happened?

ChocolateSauce · 13-12-2008 05:32PM

CDfm wrote: »

But you are an atheist now arent you?

What happened?

Being raised in a country with a Christian majority doesn't mean one ever has to be one. I wouldn't really say I was ever religious in the sense that an adult is, but I've considered myself an unbeliever since I was 8.

CDfm · 13-12-2008 05:40PM

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Being raised in a country with a Christian majority doesn't mean one ever has to be one. I wouldn't really say I was ever religious in the sense that an adult is, but I've considered myself an unbeliever since I was 8.

Communion age? Did you get confirmed etc.

Thats quite young to develop unbelief. Did you have a atholic upbringing ,mass attendence and the like.

Silenceisbliss · 13-12-2008 05:58PM

rockbeer wrote: »

Could you explain what exactly is this atheist belief system?

Speaking as an atheist, I don't accept there's any such thing.

i believe personnaly that the whole religion thing is a story that used to entertain people in the olden days, the story never died out but just became more and more popular eventually leading to the biggest cult idea of all time.

that's my belief.

CDfm · 13-12-2008 06:30PM

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

i believe personnaly that the whole religion thing is a story that used to entertain people in the olden days, the story never died out but just became more and more popular eventually leading to the biggest cult idea of all time.

that's my belief.

which religion is that.

TargetWidow · 13-12-2008 06:36PM

2 small points
1. I have only just realised that the only people to ever give me stick for being an atheist were almost all Christian. Never been questioned on this by any other religious type....
2. I was raised Catholic (a la carte though), and since deciding I didn't believe in any of the religions or in the idea of God as traditionally thought of, I have had to re-assess my vocabulary, because it's amazing how much we are culturally influenced into using phraseology like "thank God".... I now use "thank goodness" which feels very much like one of the Famous Five (I'm Irish) but I'm noticing more and more vestiges of my Catholic upbringing in my vocab which I want to root out.
Lastly I apologise to the OP for that last point being off topic and will stick to the topic in future.

PDN · 13-12-2008 06:45PM

If one more atheist visits this thread, doesn't bother reading the OP (written by an atheist), and criticises Christians for asking such a question, then I'm going to lock the thread.

CDfm · 13-12-2008 06:51PM

TargetWidow wrote: »

2 small points

2. I was raised Catholic (a la carte though), and since deciding I didn't believe in any of the religions or in the idea of God as traditionally thought of, I have had to re-assess my vocabulary, because it's amazing how much we are culturally influenced into using phraseology like "thank God".... I now use "thank goodness" which feels very much like one of the Famous Five (I'm Irish) but I'm noticing more and more vestiges of my Catholic upbringing in my vocab which I want to root out.

how can you be an " a la carte" catholic you either subscribe to it or you dont.

methinks you were given a version of the religion growing up - which bears little resemblence to catholicism as practicising catholics know it.

as to using idiomatic language -well that seems to be a huge effort to avoid a dialect of english in your locality - you need lashings of ginger beer to be in the famous five

while ireland is different some countries such as the USA dont like pretend catholics.I dont and think the church would be far better off without them using up resources for a day out. some christians are proud of their religions and sometimes atheists offend albeit unwittingly .If someone makes jokey or blasphemous comments -I would tend to be robust in correcting thrm..

whatisayis · 13-12-2008 07:50PM

I think that the basic premise of all religions is more or less identical. It is only mans interpretation of how to practice these religions that differs.
My own conclusion is that if you go way back to pre-historic times, there was no religion. As human intellect developed, they learnt how to sow seeds and relied on the seasons for their growth. When spring came they celebrated and thanked the sun and the earth for providing for them. These became annual events of thanksgiving and praise. Over time, names were given to, for example, the good sun and the bad sun depending on the harvest that year. This then developed into the various early Gods - fortune, misfortune, war, peace, etc. etc. As migration took place, stories were carried of different methods of praising these Gods, accepted by some, rejected by others. And so all modern religions were formed. I believe this to be the most logical explanation. It is quite possible that most atheists and agnostics also believe this. How does this make them evil?

wolfsbane · 13-12-2008 08:32PM

whatisayis wrote: »

I think that the basic premise of all religions is more or less identical. It is only mans interpretation of how to practice these religions that differs.
My own conclusion is that if you go way back to pre-historic times, there was no religion. As human intellect developed, they learnt how to sow seeds and relied on the seasons for their growth. When spring came they celebrated and thanked the sun and the earth for providing for them. These became annual events of thanksgiving and praise. Over time, names were given to, for example, the good sun and the bad sun depending on the harvest that year. This then developed into the various early Gods - fortune, misfortune, war, peace, etc. etc. As migration took place, stories were carried of different methods of praising these Gods, accepted by some, rejected by others. And so all modern religions were formed. I believe this to be the most logical explanation. It is quite possible that most atheists and agnostics also believe this. How does this make them evil?

It doesn't so much make them evil, they are evil by nature and that is why they come up with all the alternative realities to God. They suppress the knowledge of God that is witnessed to by the magnificence of the universe and in their conscience, and put in its place anything they are comfortable with.

wolfsbane · 13-12-2008 08:39PM

martinstuart wrote: »

The way I understand it, "evil" means completely lacking in good.

Nobody is completely lacking in good. Though sometimes some of our actions are evil.

I speak as a Catholic, who loves God and knows in his heart God loves everyone--equally, atheist or not, catholic or not. So why be a catholic? Isn't it better to be an atheist and not have anything 'forced' on you? Being 'religious' is simply a genuine response to the Love and knowledge of God and his/her unflinching goodness. It's a voluntary response. It's an inadequate response but it's a good response.

I urge everyone, atheists and believers, to 'wonder' more.

The debate here does depend on the definition of 'evil'. By your definition Hitler was not evil. Only Satan and the demons would qualify.

Others use the term in the sense of being on the lower end of the spectrum of morality.

I use the term in the sense of man's morality in relation to God's standard for us.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

wolfsbane · 13-12-2008 08:43PM

TargetWidow wrote: »

So the New Testament is just all tosh then?

No, the NT is the truth of God. It sets out fully the truths I have been articulating here.

studiorat · 13-12-2008 08:55PM

[QUOTE=wolfsbane;58255234. They suppress the knowledge of God that is witnessed to by the magnificence of the universe and in their conscience, and put in its place anything they are comfortable with.[/QUOTE]

That's just speculation Wolfsbane, speculation of something you know nothing about. Show me proof that the sentance above is fact

The magnificence of the universe and our part in it only re-enforces the reasons for their being no interventionist god.
If you are so vain to think this universe is "created" and you actually have a part to play in it you are madder than a box of frogs.

whatisayis · 13-12-2008 09:14PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

It doesn't so much make them evil, they are evil by nature and that is why they come up with all the alternative realities to God. They suppress the knowledge of God that is witnessed to by the magnificence of the universe and in their conscience, and put in its place anything they are comfortable with.

So, by that reasoning, anyone and everyone who lived in pre-Christian times was evil by nature?

wolfsbane · 13-12-2008 09:17PM

whatisayis wrote: »

So, by that reasoning, anyone and everyone who lived in pre-Christian times was evil by nature?

Everyone from Adam's fall till now was born evil - except Christ, the Son of God.

wolfsbane · 13-12-2008 09:23PM

studiorat wrote: »

That's just speculation Wolfsbane, speculation of something you know nothing about. Show me proof that the sentance above is fact

The magnificence of the universe and our part in it only re-enforces the reasons for their being no interventionist god.
If you are so vain to think this universe is "created" and you actually have a part to play in it you are madder than a box of frogs.

I don't know what 'proof' you would accept, but I know the truth of this because I know the One who revealed it in His word and in my conscience. I also recongise this truth because I once lived it out as an unbeliever.

You look at the universe and see no God, but that is because you don't want to - you are opposed to Him in your heart and are happily blinded by Satan to what stares you in the face. Creation all around witnesses this to your conscience, but like every unbeliever you either say there is no God or invent one to suit yourself.

studiorat · 13-12-2008 09:58PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

I don't know what 'proof' you would accept, but I know the truth of this because I know the One who revealed it in His word and in my conscience. I also recongise this truth because I once lived it out as an unbeliever.

You look at the universe and see no God, but that is because you don't want to - you are opposed to Him in your heart and are happily blinded by Satan to what stares you in the face. Creation all around witnesses this to your conscience, but like every unbeliever you either say there is no God or invent one to suit yourself.

Rubbish, this is purely hearsay. I look at the Universe and I see the Universe. I'm not opposed to any God, so don't go telling me what I do and don't think. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

I'm always immediately suspicious when I hear people saying they recognise anything because they were once an unbeliever, usually a reformed alcoholic or some similar... Well grand, if being a christian helps you get over some personal issues bully for you. But don't for one second go saying that because you believe in a bronze age conspiracy you have some sort of inside track to morality. It would seem to me that you are only fooling yourself.

It doesn't so much make them evil, they are evil by nature and that is why they come up with all the alternative realities to God. They suppress the knowledge of God that is witnessed to by the magnificence of the universe and in their conscience, and put in its place anything they are comfortable with.

There's the quote again, I asked you to back up that statement with FACT. Otherwise it's just conjecture. You're not going to sneak out of this by saying I won't accept your proof. If you can back up your statement then I'll obviously listen.
Now if you are going to make assumptions about people you'll need to have some very real proof by way of citation at least to back up your assumption.

I want to see real evidence that people suppress the knowledge of god and real evidence that people replace god with other things.
Show us that you're not just making this up.

Fanny Cradock · 13-12-2008 10:08PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

Everyone from Adam's fall till now was born evil - except Christ, the Son of God.

Though a little pedantic, I would say that everybody past, present and future - bar Jesus - has been born with sin and therefore has the propensity to sin. I would tend to reserve the word 'evil' for individuals who are unusually cruel - and people from all walks of life are capable of that irrespective of what they call themselves.

whatisayis · 13-12-2008 10:26PM

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Though a little pedantic, I would say that everybody past, present and future - bar Jesus - has been born with sin and therefore has the propensity to sin. I would tend to reserve the word 'evil' for individuals who are unusually cruel - and people from all walks of life are capable of that irrespective of what they call themselves.

I agree with your definition of evil. One thing I find rather confusing is the statement that everyone has always been born with sin. Does this mean all who lived and died in pre-christian times were therefore sent to hell?

studiorat · 13-12-2008 10:47PM

If Jesus was born without sin as you say why was he baptised?

kingtut · 13-12-2008 10:58PM

wolfsbane wrote: »

Everyone from Adam's fall till now was born evil - except Christ, the Son of God.

How do you know that Christ was the Son of God?

CDfm · 13-12-2008 11:40PM

studiorat wrote: »

I'm not opposed to any God, so don't go telling me what I do and don't think.

I'm always immediately suspicious when I hear people saying they recognise anything because they were once an unbeliever, usually a reformed alcoholic or some similar... Well grand, if being a christian helps you get over some personal issues bully for you. But don't for one second go saying that because you believe in a bronze age conspiracy you have some sort of inside track to morality. It would seem to me that you are only fooling yourself.

I want to see real evidence that people suppress the knowledge of god and real evidence that people replace god with other things.

Jeez - somethings got you steamed up.

Do you have an issue with reformed addicts or something. Because it comes accross quite strongly that you do.

That somehow bronze age guys were less intelligent or philosophical than us strikes me as odd. I couldnt go out into a field dig up some rocks and smelt ore.Building a pyramid or doing the maths for it or inventing a hierographic alphabet is challenging for me.

Well if someone - takes the kids to McDonalds for breakfast bon a Sunday morning rather than mass they could be replacing it with something else.

TargetWidow · 13-12-2008 11:49PM

CDfm wrote: »

how can you be an " a la carte" catholic you either subscribe to it or you dont..

No. What I mean by a la carte Catholic is that I was brought up by parents who realized that it might not be realistic to expect someone to hold to a promise to keep to a faith that was foisted upon them when they were six weeks old. They did all they promised to do at my christening, but when I was about 15 they decided to let me think it over and choose for myself for once. A la carte refers to my ability to choose for myself, not my current supposedly evil state of non-belief.

And no. Its no huge effort to try to have some integrity in matching my vocabulary with my beliefs.

Strange how no other religions are not as critical though.....
What does it say again...
Judge not lest ye be judged....

Lots of judging going on here.

Fanny Cradock · 13-12-2008 11:54PM

whatisayis wrote: »

I agree with your definition of evil. One thing I find rather confusing is the statement that everyone has always been born with sin. Does this mean all who lived and died in pre-christian times were therefore sent to hell?

I don't believe so. If I may rephrase my statement slightly to omit the phrase 'everybody has been born with sin'. For instance, I don't believe this is the case with a newborn or a young child. As for those born before Jesus, I believe that they received the gift we do - a sort of retrospective form of salvation.

studiorat · 14-12-2008 12:01AM

CDfm wrote: »

Jeez - somethings got you steamed up.

Do you have an issue with reformed addicts or something. Because it comes accross quite strongly that you do.

That somehow bronze age guys were less intelligent or philosophical than us strikes me as odd. I couldnt go out into a field dig up some rocks and smelt ore.Building a pyramid or doing the maths for it or inventing a hierographic alphabet is challenging for me.

Well if someone - takes the kids to McDonalds for breakfast bon a Sunday morning rather than mass they could be replacing it with something else.

I have an issue with someone who uses the usual I used to be blah, blah until I was re-born argument. And has themselves convinced that that is a good thing... Most normal people know better not to get themselves into that mess in the first place.

Spending time with the kids instead of bringing them to a church to sit and listen would be a good thing IMO. I'm sure I could think of something more constructive than McDonalds too.

I'm not sure what your point about iron ore is. I'd point out thought that only people who knew how to these things did them. Just as today not everybody knew how to make metals from ore.
Intelligence doesn't really come into it, I'm sure you could teach a person from those days to do everything we do with technology and to explain physical laws of science etc. We do however have time and experience on our side when comparing modern ideas to say bronze age ideas.

CDfm · 14-12-2008 12:02AM

TargetWidow wrote: »

No. I was brought up by parents who realized that it might not be realistic to expect someone to hold to a promise to keep to a faith that was foisted upon them when they were six weeks old.
Strange how no other religions are not as critical though.....
What does it say again...
Judge not lest ye be judged....

Lots of judging going on here.

LOL.

Very amused that you didnt explain the "a la carte" for me.:pac:

But it really doesnt bother christians that others dont believe in any huge way. As PDN pointed out it was an atheist who posted originally aND ASKED THE QUESTIONS ARE ATHEISTS EVIL.

You cant expect to post on a Christian thread and not expect some comment.

Now the Muslims in some countries do a goodline on apostacy (giving up your religion) and its called beheading.

Are Athiests evil?

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