Are Athiests evil?

JohnMc1

I don't consider them evil. I do consider a certain group of them hypocrites for forcing their [non-beliefs, whatever] on the rest of the Country [Considering they cry that the religious are trying to force their beliefs on them].

The group in Washington state that intentionally made that hateful sign I would consider evil for intentionally making a sign that would offend eveyr religious observer.

Fanny Cradock

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I don't consider them evil. I do consider a certain group of them hypocrites for forcing their [non-beliefs, whatever] on the rest of the Country [Considering they cry that the religious are trying to force their beliefs on them].

The group in Washington state that intentionally made that hateful sign I would consider evil for intentionally making a sign that would offend eveyr religious observer.

I can see this post kicking off a whole fuss. Do you really think that a person is evil simply because they don't believe in God?

For that matter, I'm at a loss to see how expressing an opinion - through signs etc. - could be considered forcing their beliefs on others. While I believe that atheists are wrong when they say there is no God, they also deservedly have the right to believe this and express it within the confines of the law.

JohnMc1

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I can see this post kicking off a whole fuss. Do you really think that a person is evil simply because they don't believe in God?

I think you might want to re-read my post there.

For that matter, I'm at a loss to see how expressing an opinion - through signs etc. - could be considered forcing their beliefs on others. While I believe that atheists are wrong when they say there is no God, they also deservedly have the right to believe this and express it within the confines of the law.

I think you should look into what that sign said before posting again. They went out of their way to make Religious people look evil by saying stuff like it hardens hearts and enslaves minds. They have their rights but to do it in such a confrontational manner like they have is an entirely different situation.

robindch

bush Baby wrote: »

Good job we invented printing otherwise no one would ever hear of Him.

And good job too that christianity was, I believe, the first religion which included the instruction for belief-holders to make all necessary efforts to insert the belief into non-belief-holders (including, and here's the clever bit, for the instruction to propagate to be propagated too). Structurally, it's quite elegant.

Up to then, religions were typically propagated either by military conquest and forced conversion or by childhood/societal indoctrination, two methods that christianity acquired relatively quickly.

JohnMc1

How Christianity came to Ireland is irrelevant. The fact is Ireland is a Catholic Country. Atheists barely make up 1% of any Country's population. If they don't like Religion then that's their problem. Only Western Europe and America pander to these people. Any other Country they would be lucky to escape alive if they tried to pull the garbage they pull here and in the US.

robindch

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If they don't like Religion then that's their problem. Only Western Europe and America pander to these people. Any other Country they would be lucky to escape alive if they tried to pull the garbage they pull here and in the US.

Burn 'em at the stake, I say!

JohnMc1

robindch wrote: »

Burn 'em at the stake, I say!

Nice sarcasm :rolleyes: Only in Western Europe and US does the Govts pander to a basically non-existant for all intents and purposes section of the population. Eastern Europe, Asia, etc would not be so tolerant.

pinder

wrong,majority of people in ireland are catholic,we are no longer a catholic country.church and state are seperate beings.you can thank some of your own for abusing the misplaced trust irish people had in religious people like you for that change.the best thing that ever happened to this country was when the church lost its power

robindch

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Only in Western Europe and US does the Govts pander to a basically non-existant for all intents and purposes section of the population. Eastern Europe, Asia, etc would not be so tolerant.

Gareth, great to have you back!

JohnMc1

pinder wrote: »

wrong,majority of people in ireland are catholic,we are no longer a catholic country.church and state are seperate beings.you can thank some of your own for abusing the misplaced trust irish people had in religious people like you for that change.the best thing that ever happened to this country was when the church lost its power

Wrong. Christianity will always have an influence in Ireland even if not in an official capacity. I would dare to say most of our elected officials are Catholics so it is always going to be a factor of Irish society. If you or the atheists don't like then tough luck.

pinder

im sorry your wrong.church and state are seperate,thank the kiddy fiddling priests for that.the only way it could have a factor is a referendum on abortion or something like that.and hell,people can just go to england for that so no,you have no influence

JohnMc1

pinder wrote: »

im sorry your wrong.church and state are seperate,thank the kiddy fiddling priests for that.the only way it could have a factor is a referendum on abortion or something like that.and hell,people can just go to england for that so no,you have no influence

While the priest scandal was horrible to think Catholics the majority of the Country have no influence in the Country is pure ignorance.

pinder

the divorce referendum really showed the churches influence didnt it.as i said ,abortion doesnt matter because people can just go to england.what influence does the church have?

Galvasean

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Wrong. Christianity will always have an influence in Ireland even if not in an official capacity. I would dare to say most of our elected officials are Catholics so it is always going to be a factor of Irish society.

Do you get a kick out of copying and pasting the same posts from here and A&A?

JohnMc1 wrote: »

If you or the atheists don't like then tough luck.

They can try elect other politicians. That's why we have Democracy.

JohnMc1

Galvasean wrote: »

Do you get a kick out of copying and pasting the same posts from here and A&A?

I have a stalker. I am flattered.

They can try elect other politicians. That's why we have Democracy.

Yeah Good Luck with that. Maybe when people get over their Fianna Faill attachment. :rolleyes:

Galvasean

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Yeah Good Luck with that. Maybe when people get over their Fianna Faill attachment. :rolleyes:

I reluctantly agree with you.

JohnMc1

Galvasean wrote: »

I reluctantly agree with you.

God Help You.

Nodin

JohnMc1 wrote: »

How Christianity came to Ireland is irrelevant. The fact is Ireland is a Catholic Country. Atheists barely make up 1% of any Country's population..

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Only in Western Europe and US does the Govts pander to a basically non-existant for all intents and purposes section of the population...

And you'd be entirely wrong there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Europe

bush Baby

Remember the original question?? Is Atheism evil?

Well, I've read through most of the responses which, in the main are about as Christian as my pet Jack Russell terrier, i.e. not very. Being Christian is about being inclusive and promoting understanding and expressing love for our fellow man, ALL OUR FELLOW MEN, not just the ones we just agree with.

Being Christian is about loving your fellow man, forgiving wrongs and yes, turning the other cheek. So do we give Atheists a chance to convert? Not if they don't want to. We should treat them as we treat ourselves. With love, kindness, respect and yes, Christianity. Its what we're all about.

Dont quote ad nauseum Christian scripture which in your opinion feeds your own bias. If you can't abide with the most basic and fundamental principle of our religion which is to love thy neighbour as thyself then you should examine your collective value systems.

barfizz

No

wolfsbane

bush Baby wrote: »

Remember the original question?? Is Atheism evil?

Well, I've read through most of the responses which, in the main are about as Christian as my pet Jack Russell terrier, i.e. not very. Being Christian is about being inclusive and promoting understanding and expressing love for our fellow man, ALL OUR FELLOW MEN, not just the ones we just agree with.

Being Christian is about loving your fellow man, forgiving wrongs and yes, turning the other cheek. So do we give Atheists a chance to convert? Not if they don't want to. We should treat them as we treat ourselves. With love, kindness, respect and yes, Christianity. Its what we're all about.

Dont quote ad nauseum Christian scripture which in your opinion feeds your own bias. If you can't abide with the most basic and fundamental principle of our religion which is to love thy neighbour as thyself then you should examine your collective value systems.

Maybe you could point out where Christians on this list have said we should not do the things you commend here? I certainly love my fellowman, be he atheist, muslim or whatever. My love for him includes - is examplified by - my desire to see him reconciled with God by the gospel of Christ.

Maybe you think Christian love entails accepting other's sins as non-sins? If so, you need to read the New Testament. For example:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

If we are unloving for telling a thief he is sinning and is on his way to hell if he doesn't repent, are you unloving for fining him or putting him in prison?

CDfm

robindch wrote: »

Burn 'em at the stake, I say!

Now now Robin -be nice - its written in Romans "that vengence is mine " and that means its Gods.

Also - on the forgiveness front he does a line on mercy-which we cannot fathom and if i am not mistaken judging others gets a message too. These are basic tenets of Christianity.

So I imagine that burning people at the stake would cause him to become indignant eventually.

ChocolateSauce

CDfm wrote: »

Now now Robin -be nice - its written in Romans "that vengence is mine " and that means its Gods.

Also - on the forgiveness front he does a line on mercy-which we cannot fathom and if i am not mistaken judging others gets a message too. These are basic tenets of Christianity.

So I imagine that burning people at the stake would cause him to become indignant eventually.

Only eventually? How nice of him. So, if I piss him off royally, will he seek revenge or will he forgive me? Or both? And if so in what order?

miss no stars

I'm surprised by the responses here. I was raised a catholic and, although I didn't bother listening to much of the religious instruction, the general gist of it was to love one another.

Define evil.

I don't think most atheists would fit the definition. I've since gone away from catholicism and find myself not really believing in anything. However, I lead a good life, I love, I laugh, I care about people, I donate to charity, I work hard, I don't drink to excess, I don't do drugs. I'd hardly call that evil, I've simply thought about things and decided that, in my heart of hearts, I just don't believe.

Now, I saw this thread and, given that it was in a Christianity forum, fully expected the answer to be categorically no. So many people here claim to be christian, yet when asked if people are evil, based solely on whether they believe in god or not (rather than the people they are, the lives they lead etc), they will say yes! The two things just don't compute, it's hardly in the spirit of christianity to be so condemning is it?

I'm sorry to say that this is one of the reasons that I just couldn't accept what the church was saying. Never really got why I should "Fear" God if he was so loving and caring.

Please feel free to educate me on the last paragraph though.

CDfm

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Only eventually? How nice of him. So, if I piss him off royally, will he seek revenge or will he forgive me? Or both? And if so in what order?

he likes to do his smiteing himself.

my point is its not up to man to judge you only on matters criminal on earth.

whether he will punish you in the hereafter is anyones guess I suspect if you have been ethical -on balance- if you life an ethical life its chocolate heaven for you.

kelly1

Hello miss!

miss no stars wrote: »

Define evil.

I'm not sure how to define it but I would suggest that any deliberate going against/rejection of God's will, could be described as evil. Although evil does have connotations of extreme moral "wrongness". I don't know whether an act has to be extreme for it to be evil.

miss no stars wrote: »

I'm sorry to say that this is one of the reasons that I just couldn't accept what the church was saying. Never really got why I should "Fear" God if he was so loving and caring.

Please feel free to educate me on the last paragraph though.

When we speak of "fear" of God, it's not a quaking in your boots type of fear that makes you want to run away from God. It "holy fear" which involves a realization that our ultimate destiny (heaven/hell) depends on God's judgment of our lives and that every act/thought we do/think is either in accordance with God's will or it's not. It's about realizing how "small" we are compared with God's majesty. This fear should not result in us being afraid of God but in our trusting in His providence.

rockbeer

miss no stars wrote: »

I'm surprised by the responses here. I was raised a catholic and, although I didn't bother listening to much of the religious instruction, the general gist of it was to love one another.

It's all part of the dark and twisted concept of love at the heart of christianity. It's not a love that most humans would recognize as such. The love of a creator that would destroy his creations in a fit of pique or condemn them to an eternity of suffering for expressing the natures he built in to them. The kind of love that, as you say, places fear above compassion and revenge above understanding.

I find christianity, and catholicism in particular, becomes more comprehensible if you substitute other words or phrases for love whenever you come across it.

e.g.

"God is love" -> "god is a bizarre series of tests to which we don't really know the rules"

"perfect love drives out fear" -> "perfect obedience drives out fear"

You get the idea.

kelly1

rockbeer wrote: »

It's all part of the dark and twisted concept of love at the heart of christianity.

Your concept of what Christianity is about is what's dark and twisted!

rockbeer wrote: »

It's not a love that most humans would recognize as such. The love of a creator that would destroy his creations in a fit of pique or condemn them to an eternity of suffering for expressing the natures he built in to them.

Do you not accept that we are agents with free-will? I can decide to steal the money or not steal the money. No coercion either way. It's purely a matter of decision/self-will.

CDfm

rockbeer wrote: »

It's all part of the dark and twisted concept of love at the heart of christianity. It's not a love that most humans would recognize as such. The love of a creator that would destroy his creations in a fit of pique or condemn them to an eternity of suffering for expressing the natures he built in to them. The kind of love that, as you say, places fear above compassion and revenge above understanding.

I find christianity, and catholicism in particular, becomes more comprehensible if you substitute other words or phrases for love whenever you come across it.

e.g.

"God is love" -> "god is a bizarre series of tests to which we don't really know the rules"

"perfect love drives out fear" -> "perfect obedience drives out fear"

You get the idea.

Whoa- Ebeneezer

Its Christmastime even for an atheist like you.You can pretend its Winterval.

Just cos AH isnt getting any presents doesnt mean you wont:D

rockbeer

kelly1 wrote: »

Do you not accept that we are agents with free-will? I can decide to steal the money or not steal the money. No coercion either way. It's purely a matter of decision/self-will.

Of course, but I think we have evolved this way. I don't propose an all-loving god who built us in his own image yet still made us to be capable of stealing the money.

Either your gods is as messed up as we are, or he didn't really make us in his own image at all, or when it comes right down to it he's just not a very good creator. Perhaps this universe was his first attempt and there's a few better ones lying around somewhere else.

And is eternal punishment really consistent with love? What about forgiveness?