Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.

Man murdered by youth(s) after home attacked(yes it happened in Ireland)

1…910121415…17

Comments

  • #332
    Kline
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 ✭Kline


    Highsider wrote: »
    Pal sorry for your troubles. My own feelings on it are that the army should not be the answer. It's a public order issue and that's up to the Garda to sort out. ....etc.....People tend to be to afraid to stand up as a group at the first sign of any hassle and i guess the thugs get brave and realise they can make a particular persons/families life hell. Sad state of affairs and it's about time the powers that be (Garda,justice department,judges etc..) got on top of this situation for the good of us all.

    Sorry but the "People tend to be to afraid to stand up as a group at the first sign of any hassle" part of this is bull****. When you have a roaming gang that operates in a unit, day and night, who will set someone up for a kill down a lane way, an assassination so to speak, would this the first sign of hassle? The first sign of hassle with this group started several years ago (3 - 4) They developed a unit and tried the guards constantly until they realized that they could do absolutely anything they wanted. With the added bonus that if they got caught they could do some time with their mates, so that when they got out they would be heroes.

    The powers that be do not have the ability to deal with this. The guards will push them into the legal system, which will push them through a revolving door and they are back out tougher and braver than ever.

    I think the majority of people don't understand that these kids are playing the American "Gangland" rapper bull****. Their lives revolve around that 50 cent "pop a cap in someones head" bollox that you hear. Robbing cars, bikes etc. etc. They live for it, its their dream come true.

    Meanwhile, everyone else who's innocent gets ****ed over.


  • #333
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Highsider wrote: »
    Yeah very true. IMO it's only a matter of time before people in peril start arming themselves like in the states over the last 30 odd years. Sure it will be harder here with access to gun's not as widespread but it there's a market for them they will find there way into people's homes i'm afraid.

    A lot of them do. Not a good idea though, because the gardai are just as likely to prosecute you for possession of a firearm as they are gang members (more likely, arguably).


  • #334
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Kline wrote: »
    I think the majority of people don't understand that these kids are playing the American "Gangland" rapper bull****. Their lives revolve around that 50 cent "pop a cap in someones head" bollox that you hear. Robbing cars, bikes etc. etc. They live for it, its their dream come true.

    Meanwhile, everyone else who's innocent gets ****ed over.

    That, and the absence of anything else for them to do.


  • #335
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Ok folks, bebo links edited out by me as there are complaints involved. Up to the AH mods in the morning or whenever to make a call on whether these particular links should reappear. It may be a storm in a teacup, if it is, the mods who are familiar with the thread content will be able to determine that and let you know. I'm not familiar enough with the thread content to make that call and I don't have the time to read 300 posts.

    Complaints may be made in the Feedback forum, not here.

    Do *not* put those links back without a call on it being made by the After Hours mods, I won't hesitate to give you a local or site ban if you do. Feel free to continue the thread as you would have.


  • #336
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    sceptre wrote: »
    Ok folks, bebo links edited out by me as there are complaints involved. Up to the AH mods in the morning or whenever to make a call on whether these particular links should reappear. It may be a storm in a teacup, if it is, the mods who are familiar with the thread content will be able to determine that and let you know. I'm not familiar enough with the thread content to make that call and I don't have the time to read 300 posts.

    Complaints may be made in the Feedback forum, not here.

    Do *not* put those links back without a call on it being made by the After Hours mods, I won't hesitate to give you a local or site ban if you do. Feel free to continue the thread as you would have.

    Meh, no need for them, they add nothing.


  • Advertisement
  • #337
    Ouijaboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Ouijaboard


    Kline wrote: »
    Sorry but the "People tend to be to afraid to stand up as a group at the first sign of any hassle" part of this is bull****. When you have a roaming gang that operates in a unit, day and night, who will set someone up for a kill down a lane way, an assassination so to speak, would this the first sign of hassle? The first sign of hassle with this group started several years ago (3 - 4) They developed a unit and tried the guards constantly until they realized that they could do absolutely anything they wanted. With the added bonus that if they got caught they could do some time with their mates, so that when they got out they would be heroes.

    The powers that be do not have the ability to deal with this. The guards will push them into the legal system, which will push them through a revolving door and they are back out tougher and braver than ever.

    I think the majority of people don't understand that these kids are playing the American "Gangland" rapper bull****. Their lives revolve around that 50 cent "pop a cap in someones head" bollox that you hear. Robbing cars, bikes etc. etc. They live for it, its their dream come true.

    Meanwhile, everyone else who's innocent gets ****ed over.

    I agree with both of ye even though you are disputing what highlander said; he has a point, these feckers 'evolve' from a young age, either they know from more seasoned scumbags who it a legitimate target or they find it out for themselves by testing what you are made of.
    Its usually 'dont touch this house they have a son who knacked around with my bro 10 years ago' but this house is fair game because they just moved in or they work 8am to 8pm, who do they think they are?' sort of thing.

    Once they realise that they are not getting adequate backlash from a particular 'victim' then they up the scale of terror. I'm afraid the idea of standing up to them in a group is long gone in most areas, and with this killing its probably even less likely to happen now.

    Why this has hit a core with people is that there are thousands of people putting up with this terror everyday in exactly the same sorts of situations, the addition of a gun killing has made everybody think about their own battles with these feckers and where their battle is going from here.

    I said 10 years ago that theres not too much of a gulf between whats happening in the roughest parts of Limerick/Dublin and some low level minor anti-social behaviour in any random estate in the country. It can very easily go from burning a few weelie bins and selling a bit of gear to a resonable drug enterprise with the backing of some guns and half the estate in terror. 4 years without adequate intervention from those on high is enough time for that to happen.


  • #338
    marcsignal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    mike65 wrote: »
    The worst thing the government could do is turn the Army on its people (even if they fully deserve it), that what dictators do in third world ****eholes. When tanks are on the streets then you have lost and have admitted it.

    well i guess you can choose to interpret it that way mike65, but nobody is suggesting turning the army on anyone:rolleyes:, but rather reassuring the good people in East Wall that their government is not going to throw them to the wolves in the face of adversity, but will be prepared urgently pull out all the stocks available to protect them instead.
    Orange69 wrote: »
    Its unbelievable that this is the response of the guards.

    Unbelievable ? You're far far too kind Orange69, its an absolute fucking disgrace.


  • #339
    Sparks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Orange69 wrote: »
    The liberal idiots wouldn't what that either.. that would infringe on the "rights" of the parents..
    Find me one adult in Ireland who'd stand up and call social services in the first place, and then let's talk about the rights of the parents...
    I mean, this gang were well-known in the area. Posters here know their names. The gun was being carried for over a week before the shooting. But not one phone call to the cops? FFS.


  • #340
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Right. Everyone here needs to calm down.

    Yes, there has been a murder, but throweing hissy fits here won't help.

    Please think before you post and if you are seeing red, then don't post.

    No more bebo links and no more alluding to the names of anyone who may or may not be involved.


  • #341
    Chardee MacDennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    public exectuions for this scumbaggery imo....


  • Advertisement
  • #342
    SpookyDoll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 533 ✭✭✭SpookyDoll


    Why is bringing in the army too severe? You people watch too much TV, not talking about national martial law here (right mairt?) I think it would sh!t some of them little scumbags up rightly. It would definately make it harder for the criminals to operate. By all means, let them kill eachother, but when innocent people get the bullet, that is a differant story.
    What would the cons be of it? Apart from the "OMG Taxpayers money whine whine whine" argument.

    I think there would be public support of it actually. However, I very much doubt that the wet windbags in the Government would have adequate balls to do it. They will do what they always do "wait and see" in other words fiddle while Rome burns.

    I think from the point of view of taxpayers, there is a disgust in people at the moment here about this particular crime. It resonates with even total strangers.

    The mood needs to be harnessed, changes in the law need to be made, legal responsibility for juveniles. No more revolving door. No more squandering good money after bad on soft touch approaches. Enough.

    Common sense has to come back. These little fookers have to be kicked into touch and soon. Its them or us.


  • #343
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    What would the Army do exactly?
    Just be a presence??
    Or would you give them the power to restrain people???
    Even arrest people????
    And tell me, would you train the army in civil law so this would be legit????
    Or are you just looking for a uniformed vigilante group to be present?????


  • #344
    Chardee MacDennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    Zulu wrote: »
    What would the Army do exactly?
    Just be a presence??
    Or would you give them the power to restrain people???
    Even arrest people????
    And tell me, would you train the army in civil law so this would be legit????
    Or are you just looking for a uniformed vigilante group to be present?????

    similar to what the americans are doing i would imagine, 20,000 members of the armed forces are being deployed across the US...


  • #345
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    BastardPrince wrote: »
    similar to what the americans are doing i would imagine, 20,000 members of the armed forces are being deployed across the US...
    Which would be what? Can anyone who suggest having the army on the streets please answer the questions:
    • What would the Army do exactly? Just be a presence??
    • Would you give them the power to restrain people? Even arrest people??
    • Would you train the army in civil law so this would be legit?
    • Or are you just looking for a uniformed vigilante group to be present?


  • #346
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    Thats all wrong. The police force are trained to police. The army is trained to kill. Armies cannot be decent police forces, as we have seen from all conflicts. it is inevitable that even the people who welcome the Army will turn against it. A soldier will kill a kid. the kid may well be innocent. The entire community will turn against them.

    what we need is this

    1) A tougher general police force with roots in the area.
    2) A back up paramilitary force, uniformed and armed, for when the s*it goes down. We can use that force where necessary in bad estates, but they are still trained as police, not soldiers.

    Take no 1) .

    How many policemen are from East Wall? We recruit from down the country. That has worked up to now, in more innocent times. Not now. Look at American police dramas, partic. those set in New York/ Boston. The police are the same backgrounds as the major criminals. Born in the same area they know the guys to talk too, they are not blowins, they went to school with the criminals, they are not heavy handed allowing some low level criminality go unmolested but coming down like a ton of bricks when things go out of hand. Living in the area they can police the place by their very presence.

    Thats what works.

    ( where American totally falls apart, like Baltimore, the police are white and the criminals black, or there are other ethnic or class or regional differences between the people and the police).


  • #347
    0ubliette
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭0ubliette


    Kline wrote: »
    I knew Aidan and was only talking to him last month about the gang. I warned him about them as I had a similar experience to what he had. Got harrased and taunted with this gang for about 6 months. I decided to ignore them on the advice of the guards, they eventually got bored and moved on. I tried to tell Aidan but he was too caught up in it at that stage. I chased these kids once myself and consider myself lucky to be alive after what happened Aidan.

    I personally think the army should be brought into certain areas if the criteria fits. If you have a gang developing and growing, doing things such as throwing scaffolding planks through peoples windows, throw bottles at people, smashing up shops and businesses, intimidating people - all of whom feel helpless - then I believe that the army should be deployed. Groups of three or more teenagers should be disbanded and a curfew should be imposed on specific peoples if they are known for trouble.

    Considering the uses of the army such as guarding the banks money when its transported from A to B etc. Are peoples lives not more important and is their sense of feeling secure not more important than the government loosing some face because this might admit that they cannot control gang warfare.

    People laugh and joke about the suggestion of bringing the army in. You would not laugh and joke if you were the focus of fifteen to thirty gang members - Its no fun and as we have seen with Aidan - No fun at all.

    Aidan was a nice guy, decent and did not deserve this.

    I never thought they day would come when adults would live in fear of teenagers, but thats how its become.
    A case like thois wouldve been unheard of 20 years ago, so why is it happening now? you can blame the area the kids grew up in, but you only have to look at places like summerhill in the 70s to see just how bad dublin was in the past and teenagers werent shooting adults then. You can say 'oh theres no amenities for these poor kids, theyre bored, they have nothing else to do, thats why they end up roaming the streets and turning to crime for fun'. Complete bollocks. You know what i did when i was bored? I went for a cycle, i played with lego, i drew a ****ing picture, i didnt go out and torch someones wheelie bin or brick peoples windows. These kids are growing up bad because they know they can do whatever they want and get away scot free, and that is what really needs to change. Its a disgrace that weve come to this, kids terrorising grown ups. when i was a kid, if we tried that ****, youd have gotten a firm kick up the hole from the grown up youre terrorising, and from your own folks when they found out.


  • #348
    SpookyDoll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 533 ✭✭✭SpookyDoll


    These kids are growing up bad because they know they can do whatever they want and get away scot free, and that is what really needs to change. Its a disgrace that weve come to this, kids terrorising grown ups. when i was a kid, if we tried that ****, youd have gotten a firm kick up the hole from the grown up youre terrorising, and from your own folks when they found out.

    Yep, thats the truth.

    Kids have been given too much power and protection and before hysterics start, no one is advocating going back to the bad old days of institutionalised abuse and humiliation of kids etc

    Just more of a happy medium where kids know the boundaries and havent got the impunity to maraud all over the place.

    Where if they do wrong there will be measured punishment.


  • #349
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    0ubliette wrote: »
    I never thought they day would come when adults would live in fear of teenagers, but thats how its become.
    A case like thois wouldve been unheard of 20 years ago, so why is it happening now? you can blame the area the kids grew up in, but you only have to look at places like summerhill in the 70s to see just how bad dublin was in the past and teenagers werent shooting adults then. You can say 'oh theres no amenities for these poor kids, theyre bored, they have nothing else to do, thats why they end up roaming the streets and turning to crime for fun'. Complete bollocks. You know what i did when i was bored? I went for a cycle, i played with lego, i drew a ****ing picture, i didnt go out and torch someones wheelie bin or brick peoples windows. These kids are growing up bad because they know they can do whatever they want and get away scot free, and that is what really needs to change. Its a disgrace that weve come to this, kids terrorising grown ups. when i was a kid, if we tried that ****, youd have gotten a firm kick up the hole from the grown up youre terrorising, and from your own folks when they found out.

    Totally agree here. Its the reason i posted this thread as i was shocked, applalled, disgusted etc, too.

    I've been involved years ago with unruly teenagers attacking our house with hardly any garda response to do anything about it to help us. That bunch of teenagers were not armed roaming the streets with guns, all they had was eggs and a few stones to throw but the intent to kill was not there, the intent was to get fun out of skulling someone's gaff instead of trying to burn the house down or shooting people.

    Thats why i feel for the victim, that incident of being shot should not have happened in this country, its a new low you only hear of in London/America.

    And to top it all, there are countless families today that suffer the same type intimidation that Aidan suffered and they live under terror and thats what it is, terror.

    All i can say is god help them as the law has until now worked to help them. It's time for a much tougher approach.


  • #350
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    0ubliette wrote: »
    I never thought they day would come when adults would live in fear of teenagers, but thats how its become.
    A case like thois wouldve been unheard of 20 years ago,

    ......only in respect of the firearm. 'Cider crazed youth' was a popular tabloideque expression at the time.

    I'm not suprised to see this thread has become the usual mixture of 'rosy past meets lynch mob'.


  • #351
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Personally, these teens are obviously scum.I also blame the parents.How about you actually control your children?He was only 16 FFS.
    I would never allow my child to hang around in a group such as that.(hanging around on street corners)
    Best to get them involved in Sports/Societies early.


  • Advertisement
  • #352
    0ubliette
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭0ubliette


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm not suprised to see this thread has become the usual mixture of 'rosy past meets lynch mob'.

    So what do you suggest? sit in the middle and suck on it? Wait for them to grow out of it? Snap out of it FFS, when adults, & decent families are living in fear of a group of kids, when foreign national families are bring driven out of the area by the same kids, something needs to be done about it. but its liberal lefty tree huggers who want to solve the worlds problems with a hug that have things the way they are now anyway


  • #353
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    0ubliette wrote: »
    . but its liberal lefty tree huggers who want to solve the worlds problems with a hug that have things the way they are now anyway

    Just as a matter of interest, how precisely have these 'liberal lefty tree huggers' engineered this general situation? What have they put in place?


  • #354
    gazzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭gazzer


    Some guy on Joe Duffy at the moment talking about a gang of scumbags who are terrorising his mother in Ballymun.


  • #355
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,967 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    0ubliette wrote: »
    .... but its liberal lefty tree huggers who want to solve the worlds problems with a hug that have things the way they are now anyway
    Cause the sun reading burn 'em all right wingers are doing a much better job I suppose? :rolleyes:


  • #356
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    gazzer wrote: »
    Some guy on Joe Duffy at the moment talking about a gang of scumbags who are terrorising his mother in Ballymun.


    did he mention what part?


  • #357
    Chardee MacDennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    Zulu wrote: »
    Which would be what? Can anyone who suggest having the army on the streets please answer the questions:
    • What would the Army do exactly? Just be a presence??
    • Would you give them the power to restrain people? Even arrest people??
    • Would you train the army in civil law so this would be legit?
    • Or are you just looking for a uniformed vigilante group to be present?

    martial law ftw! Every Garda stations policing area should become a set district, each district has a crime rate which is reviewed every 3 months, every crime gets a different rating - burglary 1, gbh 2, murder 5 etc... when a district goes above a certain points total at the end of the 3 months, they are placed under Martial Law until their crime drops below the required rate subject to 3 month reviews! done and done!


  • #358
    gazzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭gazzer


    Bambi wrote: »
    did he mention what part?

    No he didnt but I got the impression it was Popintree. Probably the same gang that are terrorising my aunt who lives there.


  • #359
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I'm a "bleeding heart liberal", and I would say that East Wall is a poor area and he probably never was taught right from wrong. I imagine the kid who shot this man is a severely damaged individual, everything from terrible parenting to a bad diet.

    I wouldn't say he is a "victim" of his environment though, simply a product of it.

    People get too wrapped up in the blame game in these situations. Blaming someone only works if the person cares what they have done and cares that you disapprove. I doubt this child cares. Ultimately blaming him is pointless. It might make you feel better but it doesn't actually do anything. There is no way to force him to feel guilty.

    You either stick him in prison forever where he can't harm others, or you try and rehabilitate him.

    Do you want us to list loads of poor areas where kids haven't turned out to be scum ? Ireland as a whole was poor in the 80s - did we all turn out to be scum ?

    Since when does "poor" EQUAL "potential scumbag" ?? Being a scumbag who treats other people like dirt is a choice.

    As for being taught right from wrong.....I might fall for / run with that for petty crimes, or for being the nuisance asshole that throws eggs, but MURDER ?

    Find the scum responsible. Be 100% certain that it's them. Then shoot the scum in a VERY public place, live on TV and YouTube or whatever these scum watch, as a possible future deterrent.

    We used to have corporal and capital punishment, and it worked; we went all soft and pretended it was a bad idea, and the current generation of scum are a million times worse.

    Time to go back to proper discipline and deterrents, and IF we ever have to use them, remember that WE didn't choose to have to use them; the scum choose to break laws, and they should live (or die) with the consequences.


  • #360
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    gazzer wrote: »
    No he didnt but I got the impression it was Popintree. Probably the same gang that are terrorising my aunt who lives there.

    Most part's of ballymun have a standard issue gang of scumbags causing hassle with impunity.


  • Advertisement
  • #361
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »

    We used to have corporal and capital punishment, and it worked; we went all soft and pretended it was a bad idea, and the current generation of scum are a million times worse.
    .

    Well, at the time we had corporal punishment, capital punishment and deportation, the murder rate was far higher than it was today. So no, it didn't work. In various states in America today they have the death penalty, and this kind of thing still happens, so no, it doesn't work.

    The fact is that Irelands had a fairly low crime rate for the last 100 years because of depopulation by immigration. If you go and get an idea of the amount of Irish gangsters and gangsters of Irish descent in Australia and the States, for instance, you'll see where they ended up.

    The only thing new here is the availability of handguns, which is linked with the drugs trade. Thats unfortunately a feature of modern developed countries. What we should be doing, is seeing where in Europe they have dealt with similar problems, and what about their systems (if anything) has kept the problem in check.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement