X Factor 2008

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 01:28AM

Dudess wrote: »

All I'm saying is - people speak of her as if she's this really cutting-edge, unconventional artist, which is a joke.

That's fair enough - you're well entitled to that opinion. I agree in that I wouldn't consider her exactly cutting edge. I do think she has something to her that puts me in mind of the people I mentioned, but that's just my opinion.

What I find objectionable is the idea you seem to have that anyone coming from X Factor should automatically be dismissed as bland, and can't possibly have any substance to them...

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 01:30AM

unreggd wrote: »

How was she suggesting that?

Many artists get many deals and dont always make it big

Carly Smithson released a huge-budget album back in the day, and even won a Meteor award, but I'd never heard of her before she was on American Idol

And The Script were workin in music for years and only recently made their big break

IMO, Dudess was trying to explain that the named artists got to where they were by doing their own thing - own image, writing own material, gigging, then were eventually picked up to be as they were before - themselves

Whereas if Diana gets a record deal after the tour, she will be told how/what to sing, how to dress etc

she'll never get to be her own artist, and can't be claimed to be "unique" when the label would be forcing it all onto her in a false way

and once her contrived image runs dry, she'll be dropped

Coming from the X Factor makes that even harder because its [stupidly] based around completely irrelevant themes

Well Dudess seems to get what I'm saying so I'm happy enough with that - I'm not going back to explain everything I've said again - just join back in later!:D

unreggd · 08-12-2008 01:36AM

keane2097 wrote: »

What I find objectionable is the idea you seem to have that anyone coming from X Factor should automatically be dismissed as bland, and can't possibly have any substance to them...

Not that they CANT, just that they probably WONT

Because, as I said, they'll be taken on by a label who likes to mould the clay to 100% their liking

as opposed to the artists who make a stamp being themselves, and get signed up to continue like that

There hasnt been anyone "different" from any of these talent shows who's made a decent career

Leona Lewis, Will Young, Shayne Ward and Kelly Clarkson would be the top talent show winners, and all have mainstream careers

Also, any runners-up who somehow filled a niche were used then dropped
[for example, Ray Quinn and his Swing thing he had goin on. Album goes platinum, dropped from Sony!.....]

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 01:40AM

unreggd wrote: »

Not that they CANT, just that they probably WONT

As long as that key distinction is being made I think we can all get along...:D

@ Dudess, just out of interest - if it turned out in the morning that Regina Spektor's songs were all written for her, and that somebody else plays the piano for her, arranges the music etc would it affect how good you think her album is?

Would you enjoy it less?

Dudess · 08-12-2008 01:45AM

I'm not really into her, but if I was... wouldn't make a difference if I liked her. But you're still picking me up wrongly - making the assumption I'm a music snob.

She's only after starting - I don't know if she's capable of writing her own songs or not, but just assuming she isn't doesn't make for a great argument.

But right now you don't know whether she can or not, therefore she cannot be compared to Regina Spektor.

Yup - her path is through the X Factor.

Singing covers, being supported by a mentor, a choreographer, a vocal coach. The likes of Regina Spektor would want to do their own thing, not follow the rules of the likes of Simon Cowell.

A path doesn't have to weave it's way through smokey jazz bars and dingy clubs with shít on the wall for a person to come out of it and still be capable of producing good music.

A cutting-edge, original artist (which is how some people actually seem to see Diana) wouldn't use the X Factor - they wouldn't be left on it in the first place anyway. I'm sorry - it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. I wouldn't be saying any of this stuff about X Factor in general, as I don't see anything wrong with it, I'm just saying it in the context of people speaking of Diana as if she's so "out there".

You can't use this as an argument. It's just a made up guess. Regina Spektor might think Diana's great, she might think she's shít - you don't know any better than I do.

Really, it's naive to suggest Regina Spektor would think Diana's great.

You don't think Leona Lewis is talented? You don't think there's any possibility of anyone talented deciding to have a go just for the laugh? Like, no chance? Or is it that if they started doing well they'd pack it in for fear that they might lose what passes for street cred from people like you? Stating that talented people would never turn up in talent contests is just so far beyond nonsense it's laughable!

I meant to say "original" there, not talented.

Of course she would - "her own thing" is exactly what people voted for and exactly why people like her. If you're suggesting that Simon Cowell would take her and turn her into Christina Aguilera after the X Factor then you're severely underestimating the intelligence of the man imo

Well yeah, her own thing which isn't exactly much, and tweaked to bits by Cowell et al.

Meh - lots of people would say exactly the same thing about Bjork. Not me, but lots of people

But at least she's not contrived...

How many years is it necessary to be "doing your own thing" before you think it's appropriate for someone to become mainstream. Why is it such a negative thing for people to enjoy your music immediately? I don't see any reason an artist needs to have been a journeyman for X amount of years before there music can be considered suitably quirky/unusual/whatever

You're missing my point. You were the one who pointed out the first time you heard Regina Spektor was on a Vodafone ad, as if there was a similarity between that and Diana being on the X Factor. I made the point that they're not comparable since Regina Spektor was established before selling her song to Vodafone.

She's not marketing herself as anything. She sings songs.

If she just sang songs she'd probably be all right to listen to.

Whatever way she sings them is the way she appears. If she sings songs in a quirky way that makes her a quirky artist ffs. You use the word "marketing" disparagingly like she's faking it

She is. It's so forced it's breathtaking.

And assuming that people who watch X Factor are incapable of liking adventurous music is more snobbery very clearly

I'm not assuming it - you're twisting things. Look at the forum I moderate, and I watch the X Factor! I'm referring to the show itself - it is not going to accommodate adventurous music, it will accommodate whatever is marketable - simple as.

Why? I don't get this statement at all - are you saying creativity in music affects its profitability in a negative way!?

It will of course stifle a person's creative freedom. Again, that's just being disingenuous.

You've gone beyond talking about a single artist here to suggest that if music isn't produced by someone who got a record deal after years of slogging with nobody listening then it's not worth a piss.

Nope. You're again twisting my words. I said NONE of the above. I simply said Diana Vickers is spoken of as if she's seriously edgy... but she isn't. It's a load of bollocks.

Ooh! Surprise surprise, MissHoneyBun thanked you - even though she's also been bitching about Diana. Never would have seen that one coming!

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 02:00AM

Dudess wrote: »

I'm not really into her, but if I was... wouldn't make a difference if I liked her. But you're still picking me up wrongly - making the assumption I'm a music snob.

But right now you don't know whether she can or not, therefore she cannot be compared to Regina Spektor.

Singing covers, being supported by a mentor, a choreographer, a vocal coach. The likes of Regina Spektor would want to do their own thing, not follow the rules of the likes of Simon Cowell.

A cutting-edge, original artist (which is how some people actually seem to see Diana) wouldn't use the X Factor - they wouldn't be left on it in the first place anyway. I'm sorry - it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. I wouldn't be saying any of this stuff about X Factor in general, as I don't see anything wrong with it, I'm just saying it in the context of people speaking of Diana as if she's so "out there".

Really, it's naive to suggest Regina Spektor would think Diana's great.

I meant to say "original" there, not talented.

Well yeah, her own thing which isn't exactly much, and tweaked to bits by Cowell et al.

But at least she's not contrived...

You're missing my point. You were the one who pointed out the first time you heard Regina Spektor was on a Vodafone ad, as if there was a similarity between that and Diana being on the X Factor. I made the point that they're not comparable since Regina Spektor was established before selling her song to Vodafone.

If she just sang songs she'd probably be all right to listen to.

She is. It's so forced it's breathtaking.

I'm not assuming it - you're twisting things. Look at the forum I moderate, and I watch the X Factor! I'm referring to the show itself - it is not going to accommodate adventurous music, it will accommodate whatever is marketable - simple as.

It will of course stifle a person's creative freedom. Again, that's just being disingenuous.

Nope. You're again twisting my words. I said NONE of the above. I simply said Diana Vickers is spoken of as if she's seriously edgy... but she isn't. It's a load of bollocks.

If we hadn't started off on this tangent of discussion from the point of me liking Diana Vickers and you not liking her, I don't think there's really much we'd disagree about.

As it is, I accept all you've said there and I agree with a good bit of it. I still disagree with some generalisations you've made, but I'd only be able to counter them with generalisations of my own based on my own opinions so the whole thing becomes somewhat fatuous...

As for your point about me being disingenuous - I hold my hands up! Some of the stuff I read on this site is so retarded that I resort to it almost as a defense mechanism - apologies for forgetting that there are actually some people here that can carry on a coherent discussion!

EDIT:

Ooh! Surprise surprise, MissHoneyBun thanked you - even though she's also been bitching about Diana. Never would have seen that one coming!

I don't know who that is, so I can only hope it won't be held against me...!

Dudess · 08-12-2008 02:05AM

Nah, take no notice of that...

Hey, I'm not dissing you for liking Diana's style - everyone's entitled to like what they like, and you're at least not getting all aggressive with people who don't like her style. It's not even you I'm directing my comments at anyway, it's people who say she's so "alternative" and I didn't think you were saying that at any stage.

Nothing wrong with people making their career through X Factor either - I think Leona Lewis is excellent at what she does.

MissHoneyBun · 08-12-2008 02:06AM

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 02:09AM

Dudess wrote: »

Nah, take no notice of that...

Hey, I'm not dissing you for liking Diana's style - everyone's entitled to like what they like, and you're at least not getting all aggressive with people who don't like her style. It's not even you I'm directing my comments at anyway, it's people who say she's so "alternative" and I didn't think you were saying that at any stage.

Nothing wrong with people making their career through X Factor either - I think Leona Lewis is excellent at what she does.

Then the world is once again at peace.....

But for how long....!:pac:

unreggd · 08-12-2008 03:26AM

Bah, its all peacefull again....

HERE YOU! SHE WAS CALLIN YE A PRICK!

:rolleyes:

Woo, im all excited that Ruth is playin in 2 weeks, gna be whoppor

wonder what songs alex will pick

its 3 this week, a christmas song, fave song already done then a duet with a celeb

Aparently Irreplaceable with Beyoncé

then Hallelujah!

Baby4 · 08-12-2008 09:55AM

This post has been deleted.

rgiller · 08-12-2008 01:31PM

Back to the real core of the Saturday night show though: that little bender crying was the funniest thing I've seen in all my years of occasional Xfactor viewing. When he doesn't win and goes back to being a normal kid, he's going to get beaten up by his peers for this...

Utopia Parkway · 08-12-2008 01:51PM

rgiller wrote: »

Back to the real core of the Saturday night show though: that little bender crying was the funniest thing I've seen in all my years of occasional Xfactor viewing. When he doesn't win and goes back to being a normal kid, he's going to get beaten up by his peers for this...

That was hilarious alright. It was like he just saw his puppy being squashed by an articulated lorry.

I only occasionaly watch the show but that Diana one mangled "Everybody Hurts" that night. She shrieked her way through most of that song and stomped on it's corpse. It was awful.

That Eoghan lad has a very weak singing voice as well that they constantly try and hide with backing singers and lots of dancers. He doesn't sound bad in a quiet room but has no ability to project his voice at all. Anytime I've seen him I can barely hear his voice above all the background noise.

unreggd · 08-12-2008 03:07PM

Again, ye must be some prick if you're gna be slaggin a 16 year old for cryin

He would have been havin mixed emotions, happy cos he's in the final, sad and confused that Diana got the boot

andyman · 08-12-2008 03:40PM

unreggd wrote: »

Again, ye must be some prick if you're gna be slaggin a 16 year old for cryin

He would have been havin mixed emotions, happy cos he's in the final, sad and confused that Diana got the boot

Correct. The ignorance in the two posts above yours is ridiculous.

Back to the real core of the Saturday night show though: that little bender crying was the funniest thing I've seen in all my years of occasional Xfactor viewing. When he doesn't win and goes back to being a normal kid, he's going to get beaten up by his peers for this...

Can I just ask, how do you know that for certain? Eoghan's a very popular kid where he's from. I highly doubt people would beat him up for crying because he got into the final ahead of a girl he clearly has feelings for. A lot of people will shake his hand for having the chance to know someone as pretty (well, with make-up) as Diana. To call the chap a "little bender" because he cried is the most ignorant statement I've probably seen in this thread. Like I've said a couple of pages back, the slating he's getting is uncalled for.

That was cruel by the X-Factor producers though. They knew full well something like that was going to happen and just wanted to keep the media happy with those emotions.

jor el · 08-12-2008 03:50PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I only occasionaly watch the show but that Diana one mangled "Everybody Hurts" that night. She shrieked her way through most of that song and stomped on it's corpse. It was awful.

She sure did. I'm quite surprised that she went this week though, I guess the British public have more taste than I gave them credit for. How she even survived last week over that Spanish one is still a mystery though.

jor el · 08-12-2008 03:52PM

andyman wrote: »

A lot of people will shake his hand for having the chance to know someone as pretty (well, with make-up) as Diana.

Oh come off it, that's the singly most ridiculous thing posted on this thread.

andyman · 08-12-2008 04:01PM

That? And you missing out about him getting bullied over the crying?

You'd be surprised how many people think Diana is pretty. Very surprised.

Dudess · 08-12-2008 05:52PM

jor el wrote: »

Oh come off it, that's the singly most ridiculous thing posted on this thread.

It's not really - a lot of people are stupid enough to be filled with awe over someone they know meeting a pretty person. Yep, not even talent. Pretty is enough.

Diana is pretty though - yes, only with make-up and when she wears those really nice outfits, but that's the case with most of us.

jor el · 08-12-2008 06:32PM

andyman wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many people think Diana is pretty. Very surprised.

No I wouldn't, and that wasn't my point at all. My point was that you seem to think people will want to shake his hand because he met a pretty girl, which is very sad.

Dudess · 08-12-2008 06:39PM

Young boys would, to be fair.

jor el · 08-12-2008 06:54PM

andyman wrote: »

That? And you missing out about him getting bullied over the crying?

He probably will be taunted over it, school kids can be cruel like that.

Dudess wrote: »

Young boys would, to be fair.

OK, so some probably will, which is sad.

Catari Jaguar · 08-12-2008 10:16PM

Who cares that he knows "pretty" Diana.

If I was a 16 year old bloke I'd be more impressed that he met Kimberly and Cheryl from Girls Aloud, Maria from Coronation Street, Britney Spears, Mariah Carey, Holly Willoughby...

Alfasudcrazy · 09-12-2008 12:15AM

What a joke X Factor is this year - and a far cry from last years excellent show. These final contestants haven't a hope of making it - they are all just dismal.

Austin should have won but he was got rid of earlier for being a threat to other acts. I thought this was supposed to be a talent show as opposed to an ego match between the judges?

unreggd · 09-12-2008 12:34AM

Alfasudcrazy wrote: »

I thought this was supposed to be a talent show as opposed to an ego match between the judges?

Those days are long gone....

Im sure Alex and Ruth will have decent careers, but im not sure about the rest

Obv they'll get some sort of deals, but they wont have a long career

I think Simon is just goin through the motions now, as he has Leona to pimp around

Niall09 · 09-12-2008 12:36AM

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Who cares that he knows "pretty" Diana.

It wouldn't surprise me if he rode her...:pac:

kittensoft1984 · 09-12-2008 12:39AM

Heard this on the news today and using the spoilers just in case!

Ruth is to appear somewhere in Ireland (cant remember where) ahead of her album launch next week!!!! Whatever happened to the clause that the finalists couldn't release anything for a year??

xOxSinéadxOx · 09-12-2008 01:06AM

thought I'd just throw these in

Catari Jaguar · 09-12-2008 01:08AM

I bet Diana was mortified by that little Ewok. Still the girls will be throwing themselves at him in Norn Iron. :rolleyes:

Here's a Diana vid I found a few weeks back.

:D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnc47NNI_Do

unreggd · 09-12-2008 01:45AM

Dat video is crap!!!

So im guessin you're tryin to state Diana is

If ye think its funny, im worried!

X Factor 2008

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