X Factor 2008

Dudess · 07-12-2008 08:51PM

Chinafoot wrote: »

So what?

So, if the X Factor is a fix (I wouldn't be surprised) then Alex could be seen by Simon as too much competition for Leona.

Chinafoot · 07-12-2008 08:53PM

Dudess wrote: »

So, if the X Factor is a fix (I wouldn't be surprised) then Alex could be seen by Simon as too much competition for Leona.

Or Simon could see Alex as the British Leona cos lets face it, there's little chance of that girl leaving the states.

Dudess · 07-12-2008 08:57PM

And what if Alex makes it in the States? I firmly believe Simon wanted Diana to win as she's so different to Leona and unlikely to make it Stateside... then there was the backlash, the accusations of favouritism etc so that was the end of that.

I reckon JLS will win. They're awful but give me them over Diana any day.

Chinafoot · 07-12-2008 09:04PM

Dudess wrote: »

And what if Alex makes it in the States? I firmly believe Simon wanted Diana to win as she's so different to Leona and unlikely to make it Stateside... then there was the backlash, the accusations of favouritism etc so that was the end of that.

I reckon JLS will win. They're awful but give me them over Diana any day.

Alex will make it in the states if she marketed that way. Do you think it was Leona's idea to up sticks and head over there to work on her album? Simon Cowell knew that he could pump enough money into her to make her successful over there. The girl was booed at the MOBOs because she didn't come back to collect an award. Its like Joss Stone syndrome.

If JLS win they'll probably do well for a few years (assuming they have enough money invested in them) and then they'll split.

Personally I think Eoghan has it, because it's not a talent contest.

Handsome Bob · 07-12-2008 09:08PM

Dudess wrote: »

And what if Alex makes it in the States? I firmly believe Simon wanted Diana to win as she's so different to Leona and unlikely to make it Stateside... then there was the backlash, the accusations of favouritism etc so that was the end of that.

I reckon JLS will win. They're awful but give me them over Diana any day.

I got the impression that initially Simon was championing Diana, but he took the foot off the gas a few weeks ago in regards to her. Alexandra was then championed. Now, over what I can only assume is due to the threat of the sex tape, he has put his weight behind JLS (with Eoghan being his safety net).

I think Simon changes his allegiance when he sees any difficulty in getting an act to become a success. I don't think he'll mind if Alex wins, it probably just means more effort.

Dudess · 07-12-2008 09:13PM

Wow! Just googled the sex tape thing - "X Factor's Alex in having adult consensual sex with her boyfriend shocker!"

Hilarious how the media will paint it as "lurid"...

unreggd · 07-12-2008 09:23PM

Simon is a businessman

Always before judge, celeb etc

and IMO he's tryin to break into the Highschool Musical market, hence pushin a kid to win

Thats what he did with Same Difference, unfortunately for them

Their performance of Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now was great, literally the only good, honest and non-cheesy one they did all through that series

Their new song is just rubbish!

ANYWAYS

I hope the "song already performed" theme counts for auditions and bootcamp, and Alexandra does First Time Ever I Saw Your Face, that'd be amazin!

screw the rest :P

Dudess · 07-12-2008 09:32PM

Dannii compared Diana last night to a young Debbie Harry... :rolleyes:

unreggd · 07-12-2008 09:49PM

Ruth is performin in a new club where Bondi was on the 20th! [saturday week]

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!

keane2097 · 07-12-2008 09:50PM

Dudess wrote: »

Dannii compared Diana last night to a young Debbie Harry... :rolleyes:

She's much more reminiscent of Delores O'Riordan imo. She reminds me of Regina Spektor a little as well.

We have an absolute dearth of quirky, interesting, atypical female artists in the world today - that was my main reason for hoping Diana won.

She was the only one I could see releasing an album that would have something different to what's already available.

As in - Alex's album would probably be somewhere along the lines of what I can already get from Beyonce, Leona, maybe Christina Aguilera etc.

Eoghan's album would just be Busted or Highschool Musical (not because he's crap, just because that's how he'd be forced to market himself)

JLS would just churn out a Boys to Men-alike album more than likely.

Diana on the other hand would maybe offer something different. I certainly can't think of too many people at the moment who I could compare her to.

And please don't retort with "That's cos she sounds shít" or similar, cos I enjoy her vocals the same way I enjoy Regina Spektor - just cos every note isn't perfect doesn't matter a toss when someone can give you shivers down your spine with a tune...

Also, I've noticed loads of people saying to lay off Eoghan as he's only 16 in one breath, while ripping into 17 year old Diana in the next!

keane2097 · 07-12-2008 09:51PM

On a side note - does it irritate anyone else when Simon claims he's going to make a massive prediction, and then says how one of only four acts left in the competition might win it!?

Fair play man - that's fairly prophetic alright! :pac:

keane2097 · 07-12-2008 09:52PM

unreggd wrote: »

Ruth is performin in a new club where Bondi was on the 20th! [saturday week]

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!

In Cork?

unreggd · 07-12-2008 09:57PM

No, Dublin!

Jeebus, use the edit button!

andyman · 07-12-2008 10:12PM

unreggd wrote: »

I hope the "song already performed" theme counts for auditions and bootcamp, and Alexandra does First Time Ever I Saw Your Face, that'd be amazin!

screw the rest :P

To be fair though, Eoghan's version of "Never Forget" was one of the best in the competition in my opinion. He probably didn't get the high notes as good as Cheryl made them out to be, but the rest of the performence, vocally and choreographically, was outstanding.

Carroller · 07-12-2008 10:28PM

Was just watching the last performance of diana on youtube and was thinking to myself

There hasnt been a contestant to have that much of an impact on the judges and other contestants...when you see eoghan run onto the stage cheryl stands up and starts spitting out the tears from this you can see they knew she had something special.

Saibh · 07-12-2008 10:45PM

Carroller wrote: »

Was just watching the last performance of diana on youtube and was thinking to myself

There hasnt been a contestant to have that much of an impact on the judges and other contestants...when you see eoghan run onto the stage cheryl stands up and starts spitting out the tears from this you can see they knew she had something special.

she didn't make the final....

unreggd · 07-12-2008 11:08PM

andyman wrote: »

To be fair though, Eoghan's version of "Never Forget" was one of the best in the competition in my opinion. He probably didn't get the high notes as good as Cheryl made them out to be, but the rest of the performence, vocally and choreographically, was outstanding.

Yeah, I agree that was a great performance

But its almost like the clap he gets goin is hypnotic, and they had no right to say he did good high notes when he was drowned out on all of them by the chorus

JP Liz · 07-12-2008 11:20PM

I personally think Alexandra is better than Leona Lewis

Alex's career will depend on the songs chosen for her

Bleeding Love was a great song and it made Leona's career especially in the US. She is great at the ballads although i hate her version of "Run". She is terrible in her video for "Forgive Me" she cannot dance and its worst when there is dancers all around her.

Alexandra has stage presence and yes she can dance and sing

keane2097 · 07-12-2008 11:26PM

imo the people saying Alexandra is better than Leona Lewis are pretty much mental...

Saibh · 07-12-2008 11:30PM

keane2097 wrote: »

imo the people saying Alexandra is better than Leona Lewis are pretty much mental...

think mental is ott

the general consensus is that alexandra will maybe have a career like leona or something similar

first of all alexandra will have to win then we can compare her to leona when she releases some songs

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 12:06AM

Saibh wrote: »

think mental is ott

the general consensus is that alexander will maybe have a career like leona or something similar

first of all alexander will have to win then we can compare her to leona when she releases some songs

It's Alexandra - Alexander is a man's name...:pac:

Catari Jaguar · 08-12-2008 12:17AM

I was just looking at Diana's auditions on youtube.. She always picked these soulful hippie-ish songs and she dressed like a little fairy. Her versions of The Blowers Daughter, Nothing Compares to You, With or Without you and Hallelujah were very pretty, interesting and captivating.

I think as she progressed she lost her Kate Bush charm, and became a parody of herself. Milked her quirk and turned it on far too much. To me it seemed became more bratty and then the public turned against her. It's a shame.

Maybe if she ditches Cheryl and goes back to very basics she could have a great career....

I find Alex to be dull, she has no spark or charisma. She's like a mediocre Beyonce; just wails *woahwoahowahoooh*
Her voice is too low, it's not powerful enough, she gets out of breath easily... She's not a patch on Leona Lewis or Kelly Clarkson.

JLS, if they lose Louis and team up with a producer like Timbaland or Pharell, could be huge. Their niche is in that style of music and they did such a good job of Umbrella. If Louis keeps pushing them as a Black version of Westlife they won't last long. Their live performances haven't been as good as their auditions and Oritse should sing more than Aston.

That's my 2 cents. As for the winner. I haven't a clue, it's too close to call it.

Dudess · 08-12-2008 12:26AM

keane2097 wrote: »

She's much more reminiscent of Delores O'Riordan imo. She reminds me of Regina Spektor a little as well.

We have an absolute dearth of quirky, interesting, atypical female artists in the world today - that was my main reason for hoping Diana won.

See, I love those kind of artists too. Kate Bush, Bjork, Liz Fraser from the Cocteau Twins - awesome. Regina Spektor, Fiona Apple - very good too.

Diana however, cannot be compared to them. She was on the X Factor ffs! She'll still be packaged and mass-marketed. Her brand of kookiness and quirkiness is conventional and there's nothing daring about it. To say she's different and individual etc and then for her to become a recording artist on the back of taking part in the X Factor, is simply oxymoronic. Those artists I mentioned go it alone - that's what sets them apart. Ok, she's not your usual pop, but she's a very watered down, very middle-of-the-road knock-off of... maybe Dolores O'Riordan (again, nothing particularly subversive about her).

To compare Diana to Kate Bush... well I'd say it must seriously grate with Kate Bush.

Also, I've noticed loads of people saying to lay off Eoghan as he's only 16 in one breath, while ripping into 17 year old Diana in the next!

Not me. I never mentioned his age - my points is, he's got a very strong voice but people seem to be overlooking that in favour of focusing on his baby-faced, cute, High School Musical-type charms...

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 12:29AM

Lil Kitten wrote: »

I was just looking at Diana's auditions on youtube.. She always picked these soulful hippie-ish songs and she dressed like a little fairy. Her versions of The Blowers Daughter, Nothing Compares to You, With or Without you and Hallelujah were very pretty, interesting and captivating.

I think as she progressed she lost her Kate Bush charm, and became a parody of herself. Milked her quirk and turned it on far too much. To me it seemed became more bratty and then the public turned against her. It's a shame.

Yeah I didn't catch all the live shows, so I guess I'm basing alot of my fondness for Diana on the auditions, bootcamp etc.

I wouldn't feel qualified to judge the brattiness thing either way tbh, as I didn't really notice it, plus the editing of the show can turn the nicest person into a monster or vice versa probably more easily than we'd care to think.

Lil Kitten wrote: »

I find Alex to be dull, she has no spark or charisma. She's like a mediocre Beyonce; just wails *woahwoahowahoooh*
Her voice is too low, it's not powerful enough, she gets out of breath easily... She's not a patch on Leona Lewis or Kelly Clarkson.

I don't think she's as bad as you seem to, but I do fear that Alex will struggle to stand out in a market already filled with excellent female pop artists. Similarly if she takes the diva route. And if she goes down the road of trying to be both or a hybrid as some people are suggesting I think she'll end up as merely competent and both singing and entertaining rather than being excellent at either and will slip towards obsurity fairly quickly.

I'm not saying there's no more room in the market for talented women, but you have to have something that makes you stand out - at least a little - and I think Alex is beset on all sides by already well-established artists that are at least as good as she is both at singing and entertaining.

It'll be tough for her - very tough.

Lil Kitten wrote: »

JLS, if they lose Louis and team up with a producer like Timbaland or Pharell, could be huge. Their niche is in that style of music and they did such a good job of Umbrella. If Louis keeps pushing them as a Black version of Westlife they won't last long. Their live performances haven't been as good as their auditions.

Couldn't agree more with this paragraph - JLS are potentially a breath of fresh air. If they go down any of the soul/hip-hop/RnB routes, especially working with the producers you've mentioned, they could be brilliant.

The "black Westlife" comment is spot-on imo.

fletch · 08-12-2008 12:40AM

Alexandra is so forgettable and her version of Unbreak My Heart was not a patch on Toni Braxtons!!!

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 12:41AM

Dudess wrote: »

Diana however, cannot be compared to them.

Of course she can - she sounds like them!

Dudess wrote: »

She was on the X Factor ffs! She'll still be packaged and mass-marketed. Her brand of kookiness and quirkiness is conventional and there's nothing daring about it. To say she's different and individual etc and then for her to become a recording artist on the back of taking part in the X Factor, is simply oxymoronic. Those artists I mentioned go it alone - that's what sets them apart.

Pfff, I find the idea that someone being on a TV show excludes them from being considered different is a bit elitest to be honest.

If an artist is savage I don't give a fook how she got famous - slumming it in jazz clubs or pop idol it's all the same to me. It's the music that's important, not whether or not it's making Simon Cowell money - should be imo anyway...

I first heard Regina Spektor on a Vodafone ad ffs - if X-factor produces someone I enjoy listening to as much then I'll be forever indebted to it, I certainly won't turn my nose up at the music just because the unwashed masses can be talked into liking it as well.

Someone being mass-marketed effects nothing unless you're the type of person who thinks obscure music gets "ruined" if it suddenly starts getting played on the radio.

Your whole argument reminds me of a particularly hilarious sketch on eyebrowee where the central punch line was "I liked Arcade Fire before you"!

Dudess wrote: »

Her brand of kookiness and quirkiness is conventional

Speaking of oxymoronic!:p

Dudess · 08-12-2008 12:51AM

keane2097 wrote: »

Of course she can - she sounds like them!

Does she write her own songs? Has she forged her own path? I've no doubt Regina Spektor would be seriously insulted by the comparison.

Pfff, I find the idea that someone being on a TV show excludes them from being considered different is a bit elitest to be honest.

Not at all. But the X Factor is for pop music, not for anything that pushes the envelope.

If an artist is savage I don't give a fook how she got famous - slumming it in jazz clubs or pop idol it's all the same to me.

Indeed, except a truly original artist wouldn't have any interest in appearing on a national karaoke show.

It's the music that's important, not whether or not it's making Simon Cowell money

Except the latter is ultimately the top priority. If Diana won, she'd hardly be able to do her own thing - not that she'd have much of her "own thing" to do, I'd suspect. She's got a voice that she sticks irritating sounds and accents into - woopdeedoo.

I first heard Regina Spektor on a Vodafone ad ffs

Nothing wrong with an artist selling their music for advertising purposes. It's necessary if you want to make a living. However, she was doing her own thing for years before that.

if X-factor produces someone I enjoy listening to as much then I'll be forever indebted to it, I certainly won't turn my nose up at the music just because the unwashed masses can be talked into liking it as well.

Oh me neither. Except the X Factor hardly allows for creativity. Diana's marketing herself as this really unusual performer - to people who would hate genuinely adventurous music.

Someone being mass-marketed effects nothing

Course it does... it means creativity is compromised - has to be.

unless you're the type of person who thinks obscure music gets "ruined" if it suddenly starts getting played on the radio.

#
Certainly not. I despise that sh1t.

Your whole argument reminds me of a particularly hilarious sketch on eyebrowee where the central punch line was "I liked Arcade Fire before you"!

Yeah, I hate those assholes. I love Arcade Fire and Kings of Leon as much as ever - don't give a hoot if they're popular.
I don't think what I'm saying has any relevance to music snobbery though. I'm literally telling it how I see it. She's not a genuinely "out there" artist.

keane2097 · 08-12-2008 12:58AM

Dudess wrote: »

Does she write her own songs?

She's only after starting - I don't know if she's capable of writing her own songs or not, but just assuming she isn't doesn't make for a great argument.

Has she forged her own path?

Yup - her path is through the X Factor. A path doesn't have to weave it's way through smokey jazz bars and dingy clubs with shít on the wall for a person to come out of it and still be capable of producing good music. If you think it does then you're guilty of severe musical snobbery.

I've no doubt Regina Spektor would be seriously insulted by the comparison.

You can't use this as an argument. It's just a made up guess. Regina Spektor might think Diana's great, she might think she's shít - you don't know any better than I do.

Indeed, except a truly talented artist wouldn't have interest on appearing on a national karaoke show.

You don't think Leona Lewis is talented? You don't think there's any possibility of anyone talented deciding to have a go just for the laugh? Like, no chance? Or is it that if they started doing well they'd pack it in for fear that they might lose what passes for street cred from people like you? Stating that talented people would never turn up in talent contests is just so far beyond nonsense it's laughable!

Except the latter is ultimately the top priority. If Diana won, she'd hardly be able to do her own thing - not that she'd have much of her "own thing" to do, I'd suspect.

Of course she would - "her own thing" is exactly what people voted for and exactly why people like her. If you're suggesting that Simon Cowell would take her and turn her into Christina Aguilera after the X Factor then you're severely underestimating the intelligence of the man imo

She's got a voice that she sticks irritating sounds and accents into - woopdeedoo.

Meh - lots of people would say exactly the same thing about Bjork. Not me, but lots of people

Nothing wrong with an artist selling their music for advertising purposes. It's necessary if you want to make a living. However, she was doing her own thing for years before that.

How many years is it necessary to be "doing your own thing" before you think it's appropriate for someone to become mainstream. Why is it such a negative thing for people to enjoy your music immediately? I don't see any reason an artist needs to have been a journeyman for X amount of years before there music can be considered suitably quirky/unusual/whatever

Oh me neither. Except the X Factor hardly allows for creativity. Diana's marketing herself as this really unusual performer - to people who would hate genuinely adventurous music.

She's not marketing herself as anything. She sings songs. Whatever way she sings them is the way she appears. If she sings songs in a quirky way that makes her a quirky artist ffs. You use the word "marketing" disparagingly like she's faking it - she either sings songs in a quirky way or she doesn't, the rest is nonsense.

And assuming that people who watch X Factor are incapable of liking adventurous music is more snobbery very clearly

Course it does... it means creativity is compromised - has to be.

Why? I don't get this statement at all - are you saying creativity in music affects its profitability in a negative way!?

Certainly not. I despise that sh1t.

Yeah, I hate those assholes. I love Arcade Fire and Kings of Leon as much as ever - don't give a hoot if they're popular.
I don't think what I'm saying has any relevance to music snobbery though. I'm literally telling it how I see it. She's not a genuinely "out there" artist.

Pretty much everything else you've said in your post seems to suggest the opposite of what I've underlined here.

You've gone beyond talking about a single artist here to suggest that if music isn't produced by someone who got a record deal after years of slogging with nobody listening then it's not worth a piss.

EDIT:- Decided to explain my objections more thoroughly.

unreggd · 08-12-2008 01:19AM

How was she suggesting that?

Many artists get many deals and dont always make it big

Carly Smithson released a huge-budget album back in the day, and even won a Meteor award, but I'd never heard of her before she was on American Idol

And The Script were workin in music for years and only recently made their big break

IMO, Dudess was trying to explain that the named artists got to where they were by doing their own thing - own image, writing own material, gigging, then were eventually picked up to be as they were before - themselves

Whereas if Diana gets a record deal after the tour, she will be told how/what to sing, how to dress etc

she'll never get to be her own artist, and can't be claimed to be "unique" when the label would be forcing it all onto her in a false way

and once her contrived image runs dry, she'll be dropped

Coming from the X Factor makes that even harder because its [stupidly] based around completely irrelevant themes

Dudess · 08-12-2008 01:19AM

I don't follow you. It really isn't me being a music snob, it's me considering her a sub-par artist. Sure, I mentioned that the X Factor doesn't allow for true originality but I'd consider that relevant.

If I was being a music snob, I'd dislike her purely because of her popularity/the fact she's on X Factor, but would like her if she wasn't well known. I wouldn't like her either way, because I actually can't bear to listen to her.

I see your edit. All I'm saying is - people speak of her as if she's this really cutting-edge, unconventional artist, which is a joke.

X Factor 2008

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