No more idealists?

4zn76tysfajdxp · 29-11-2008 04:54PM

Terry wrote: »

I would seriously do this.

If by "this" you mean a boardsie political party that's true and honest and sponsered by Lucozade and Irn Bru, I think it's a great idea.

Kold wrote: »

Will I need to give up weed?

Not if you legalise it.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 29-11-2008 04:56PM

reganovich wrote: »

Give us some solutions, but also define the problems...otherwise your just talkin ****e

He thinks Lucozade is overpriced. Jesus, it's like you haven't even read the thread.

ronbyrne2005 · 29-11-2008 04:58PM

Terry for Minister for Fun.:pac:

ejmaztec · 29-11-2008 04:59PM

The first cunning plan would be to ban the manufacture and sale of brown envelopes. That would confuse the hell out of any corrupt thieving bastards.

nyarlothothep · 29-11-2008 05:06PM

I am an idealist. I also believe in honour. Idealism is great, it sets an unachievable standard that can never be reached, but that's the whole point. By continually pushing for perfection you raise the standards overall. The ends do not justify the means ethically speaking. Universal pragmatism is really bad, it limits society to being short sighted. The theoretical/research is way more beneficial long term which is why I am in awe of CERN.

However although I support idealism I would distinguish this from fundamentalism. I don't believe in any strict form of ideology or putting a name on anything.

But to get back to the point, the duty of any elected leader is to serve the people, not to pursue vainglorious crusades for "a place in history" or to abuse their power.

The world is a lot tougher for someone who is idealistic. For example I cannot comprehend the idea of lying/cheating at someone's expense for personal gain, when that person has done nothing to me. Therefore when I see this kind of petty childish behaviour occurring it tends to really irritate me.

The fundamentals for a better world are these imo: treat others as you would like to be treated and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I still cannot comprehend how Irish politicians are unable to see the stupidity of their behaviour. I believe people like this cannot see beyond their own contexts, that is they are incapable of reflection and are therefore incomplete personalities ie fools.

But the question is, are people subject to a culture of self interest and dumbed down thinking (ie I'll vote for him because I can imagine myself having a beer with him) which is promoted by elites? Does this culture represent an extenuation of more autocratic times in history? It takes a long time for society as a whole to catch up with new innovations in tech and social ideals. For example I think the 8 hour work day should be scrapped, people are only productive for about 4 hours, so why not have it around 5-6 hours at most. More free time=happier workers=more productivity. We work 8 hours a day so that we are exhausted and are therefore apathetic.

What was I going on about? Oh yeah, anyway I think culture plays a large part in shaping the behaviour of people eg a violent culture based around warfare is going to produce people who tend towards violence to a greater degree, than a culture which is all about peace etc. So I would attribute a decline in idealism to the consumerist culture we live in to some extent and also to the fact that living standards are relatively comfortable apart from the 40 hour week (which is wage slavery imo, unless you like it).

FlutterinBantam · 29-11-2008 05:11PM

Kold wrote: »

Semi serious thread heeyar.

Has idealism died with this new generation? I don't know about anyone else but as a 22 year old living in this country, I don't feel at all represented in society. With the last election, there wasn't a single party that I felt represented my ideals. It's sort of like the American system, you just vote for the lesser of two evils even if they are pretty much the same. My Dad listens to RTE radio all day and I'm pretty sure this is why he's the miserable bastard that he is. People whinging all f*cking day long. Old people. It's the old people on Primetime too, and any young person who does appear seems to be a neo-con dick.

I can completely relate to the apathy of my demographic and I'm probably more guilty than most. But it can't just be me who thinks the government a load of horsesh*t? Corrupt as f*ck and utterly backward. Will attack the small issues more than the small issues (still bitter about the mushies you fat c*nt Harney) I have a real problem with career politicians (this is my young naivity showing through I guess) it seems that these are the cocks who studied political theory at UCD/Trinners because being involved in government is a pretty handy job. And I know I'm gonna sound like a cliché but I've read and watched a lot of documentaries about Fidel Castro and I sit in awe. This man who actually tried to do everything in the best interests of his people, even if that meant bringing hardship in order not to polish America's cock. I look at these fat bastard TDs on the TV/in the indo and they're just there to make a decent living and maybe help out a tiny bit at the same time. I just go back to a game of CS and a joint and avoid these morons in future.
No wonder nobody my age gives a f*ck. We've got our Lucozade, we can afford to get ripped at the weekend and get a brekky roll on Sunday morning and watch Heroes, sure things can't be that bad.

It's weird that we're probably the most educated generation ever and yet we don't give a f*ck that the government is a bunch of clowns and care more about who wins I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. The fact that our life will be fine as long as we live it to the set template that we've been set, maybe that is good enough for everyone else.

This is more a mini rant and I'm certain I'll get put in my place, again I'm not trying to appear holier than thou. I'm sort of scared to discuss this topic as I'm afraid of being told that I'm just wrong (and therefore stupid), that we're completely fine.

Never read such a bunch of tosh in my life.

If you have a problem about being not represented go join a fcukin party and work on it.
You are 22 and seem to think you know it all,you don't .
If people like you spent less time texting/phoning/u_tubing/Platstationing and trying to get something for fcuking nothing insterad of going out and working for it maybe, just maybe this place would be better.
You dis your dad yet he worked hard and put a roof over your ungratefull head and seems to have educated you .

Cop yourself fcuking on and and instead of whinging and dissing people get off your arse and DO something,other than smoking spliffs and wasting airtime on useless rants.

If Cuba is so good ,and don't believe the tosh on Marion Finucane today,away you go sunshine!!

Posts like that sicken me

Terry · 29-11-2008 05:12PM

Kold wrote: »

Will I need to give up weed?

Nah. Just don't go spouting crap about your rights though. It just makes you seem crazy.

reganovich wrote: »

The government are the people...they do represent us. If as you say we are so spoilt "with our lucozade " , if the government are so despicable, then so are we....human nature is such that when people are comfortable they wont rock the boat.

You offered no answers in your rant you were merely talkin bollocks...the fact that you think people study politics in University "to become politicians" is laughable...

By idealist do you mean someone who imagines how things should be?!
Or do we need realists? Nobody believes things are perfect but its not as simple as saying they need to be a certain way...you have to do something about it.

But dont assume that everyone shares your views, that the way they live their lives is somehow wrong.

Give us some solutions, but also define the problems...otherwise your just talkin ****e

You're going to need a speech writer.

Julian Obedient Bullfrog wrote: »

If by "this" you mean a boardsie political party that's true and honest and sponsered by Lucozade and Irn Bru, I think it's a great idea.

You can be minister for getting sponsorship.

Not if you legalise it.

Not on my watch.
I don't want extra English drunks over here.
Those stag tourists are bad enough as is.

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Terry for Minister for Fun.:pac:

Wouldn't work.
I'm actually quite the bore really.

javaboy · 29-11-2008 05:13PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Cop yourself fcuking on and and instead of whinging and dissing people get off your arse and DO something,other than smoking spliffs and wasting airtime on useless rants.

The irony of Flut telling someone to get off their arse.

Terry · 29-11-2008 05:14PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Never read such a bunch of tosh in my life.

If you have a problem about being not represented go join a fcukin party and work on it.
You are 22 and seem to think you know it all,you don't .
If people like you spent less time texting/phoning/u_tubing/Platstationing and trying to get something for fcuking nothing insterad of going out and working for it maybe, just maybe this place would be better.
You dis your dad yet he worked hard and put a roof over your ungratefull head and seems to have educated you .

Cop yourself fcuking on and and instead of whinging and dissing people get off your arse and DO something,other than smoking spliffs and wasting airtime on useless rants.

If Cuba is so good ,and don't believe the tosh on Marion Finucane today,away you go sunshine!!

Posts like that sicken me

Threading a thin line there, bantam.
That crap link the other day did not go unnoticed.

reganovich · 29-11-2008 05:18PM

Terry wrote: »

Nah. Just don't go spouting crap about your rights though. It just makes you seem crazy.

You're going to need a speech writer.

You can be minister for getting sponsorship.

Not on my watch.
I don't want extra English drunks over here.
Those stag tourists are bad enough as is.

Wouldn't work.
I'm actually quite the bore really.

No, I enjoy my lucozade and my brekky rolls..not running for office...not a glutton for punishment..Kold however seems to think its easy..it probably isnt!

Kold · 29-11-2008 05:18PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Never read such a bunch of tosh in my life.

If you have a problem about being not represented go join a fcukin party and work on it.
You are 22 and seem to think you know it all,you don't .
If people like you spent less time texting/phoning/u_tubing/Platstationing and trying to get something for fcuking nothing insterad of going out and working for it maybe, just maybe this place would be better.
You dis your dad yet he worked hard and put a roof over your ungratefull head and seems to have educated you .

Cop yourself fcuking on and and instead of whinging and dissing people get off your arse and DO something,other than smoking spliffs and wasting airtime on useless rants.

If Cuba is so good ,and don't believe the tosh on Marion Finucane today,away you go sunshine!!

Posts like that sicken me

Your post completely disregards a lot of what I said. Please read entire posts before giving advice on what a person should do. That way I might have an ounce of respect for the completely unbacked rants that you spew. As I said, I'm completely open to being convinced, something tells me that you aren't.

So sort yourself out?

Agamemnon · 29-11-2008 05:21PM

Kold wrote: »

Hmm maybe I should... Maybe I should..

I'll vote for you and even join your political party on the condition that I am made Head Of The Secret Police and Minister For War when you take over.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 29-11-2008 05:21PM

Terry wrote: »

Wouldn't work.
I'm actually quite the bore really.

Fúck it, if you're able to mod AH then you can run the country.

Kold · 29-11-2008 05:24PM

Agamemnon wrote: »

I'll vote for you and even join your political party on the condition that I am made Head Of The Secret Police and Minister For War when you take over.

We don't need a night of the long knives, just stop the medical cards.

reganovich · 29-11-2008 05:25PM

Agamemnon wrote: »

I'll vote for you and even join your political party on the condition that I am made Head Of The Secret Police and Minister For War when you take over.

He has some notions about how people should behave...so he's definitely gonna need a secret police force to make sure people follow his "ideals" ...Good thinkin man! you'll fit right into his regime

Kold · 29-11-2008 05:26PM

reganovich wrote: »

He has some notions about how people should behave...so he's definitely gonna need a secret police force to make sure people follow his "ideals" ...Good thinkin man! you'll fit right into his regime

Where do you get that from? My only notion was that maybe getting fat and trashy TV isn't the best deal we could hold out for.

FlutterinBantam · 29-11-2008 05:26PM

Kold wrote: »

Your post completely disregards a lot of what I said. Please read entire posts before giving advice on what a person should do. That way I might have an ounce of respect for the completely unbacked rants that you spew. As I said, I'm completely open to being convinced, something tells me that you aren't.

So sort yourself out?

What I read was a naive ageist insulting thread which no rational person could take seriously.

Prof.Badass · 29-11-2008 05:29PM

I've been banging on about this for years, but Ireland needs a liberal party.

Even if they don't get voted in, they'd provide balance to a completely one-sided system.

Kold · 29-11-2008 05:30PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What I read was a naive ageist insulting thread which no rational person could take seriously.

OK and what I read was a completely trollish post that in no way explained itself.

Do you listen to Joe Dolan? Can you tell me that my description was a complete fallacy?

reganovich · 29-11-2008 05:31PM

Kold wrote: »

Where do you get that from? My only notion was that maybe getting fat and trashy TV isn't the best deal we could hold out for.

And what is the best deal?...should be harmless reality TV, yet people lap it up...do you need to re educate them or something?...tell them how pointless they are?... explain to them your "better deal"?

Ya man, you is definitely gonna need a secret police!

4zn76tysfajdxp · 29-11-2008 05:33PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What I read was a naive ageist insulting thread which no rational person could take seriously.

Kold wrote: »

OK and what I read was a completely trollish post that in no way explained itself.

Can't we all just get along? Here, have some Lucozade.

reganovich · 29-11-2008 05:37PM

Julian Obedient Bullfrog wrote: »

Can't we all just get along? Here, have some Lucozade.

The most important point here today is that lucozade is feckin class...love it

Free to drink it if I want, hurray we live in a free country!

4zn76tysfajdxp · 29-11-2008 05:38PM

reganovich wrote: »

The most important point here today is that lucozade is feckin class...

Is there any other point to this thread?

reganovich · 29-11-2008 05:42PM

Julian Obedient Bullfrog wrote: »

Is there any other point to this thread?

I dunno man, gonna keep it simple and still say lucozade...

Kolds revolution is over...the people need their lucozade

Lucozade with ice

Karl Hungus · 29-11-2008 05:49PM

Kold wrote: »

This is more a mini rant and I'm certain I'll get put in my place, again I'm not trying to appear holier than thou. I'm sort of scared to discuss this topic as I'm afraid of being told that I'm just wrong (and therefore stupid), that we're completely fine.

We are fine, but I think that's the problem that some people have. It's like emo kids who've had a great and privileged upbringing, yet ponce about all miserable and depressed with their lives and cut themselves. They go on about how awful their lives were, when they've really had it pretty good.

Now, I don't mean that correlation as insulting...
But you talking about Castro nails it for me; you want to be part of something. It's not that there's anything overly wrong with Ireland today, but you feel like you've missed out on something, not having been part of some upheaval or revolution, not having contributed in that sense. There's nothing to struggle against, and you're dissatisfied. I think that's why you can't relate to any political parties, there's nothing you can grab onto and shout out about, no great upheaval or struggle for this generation.

I find it honestly hilarious the faults we find with our leaders. I mean, who really cares about Harney's haircut, it's small-fry petty dissatisfaction. Likewise, Bertie's money, I really don't give a damn looking back on it. Because if we're giving out about some politicians getting brown envelopes, while we're living in comfort, then I think we've lost perspective. There's so much worse that could happen, look at the likes of Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin and think how much worse it could be. I'd far rather a slightly dirty chancer of a politician who's going to keep our country and our people in comfort, than someone who has lofty ideals and doesn't care who he steps on or who he hurts while trying to reach those ideals.

Maybe I'm showing my age here, but I remember what it was like in Ireland in the 80's. At one point, we were renting rooms to lodgers, with me and the rest of my family in the sitting room on a fold out couch and a couple of mattresses; Me, my parents, my sister and our dog, all sleeping in the same room, just so we could keep a roof over our heads. I remember my first holiday was to somewhere out in Mayo. Eventually things got better, and we had our own rooms, we even went to Spain on holiday.

Now, it wasn't all that bad, we had a home, food, and I had transformers. But it just kinda puts things in perspective just how absolutely awesome we have it now. We can always find fault with what we have now, but I'm damned happy with it, I really, really am.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 29-11-2008 05:55PM

Yeah but you didn't have any Lucozade, that's the real issue here.

Karl Hungus · 29-11-2008 05:59PM

Julian Obedient Bullfrog wrote: »

Yeah but you didn't have any Lucozade, that's the real issue here.

Of course we had Lucozade, we always had that as long as I can remember. I hated the stuff. It always reminds me of being sick, because it was brought to me in the hospital, and any time we'd visit a family member in the hospital, they had a bottle of it.

ejmaztec · 29-11-2008 05:59PM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

We are fine, but I think that's the problem that some people have. It's like emo kids who've had a great and privileged upbringing, yet ponce about all miserable and depressed with their lives and cut themselves. They go on about how awful their lives were, when they've really had it pretty good.

Now, I don't mean that correlation as insulting...
But you talking about Castro nails it for me; you want to be part of something. It's not that there's anything overly wrong with Ireland today, but you feel like you've missed out on something, not having been part of some upheaval or revolution, not having contributed in that sense. There's nothing to struggle against, and you're dissatisfied. I think that's why you can't relate to any political parties, there's nothing you can grab onto and shout out about, no great upheaval or struggle for this generation.

I find it honestly hilarious the faults we find with our leaders. I mean, who really cares about Harney's haircut, it's small-fry petty dissatisfaction. Likewise, Bertie's money, I really don't give a damn looking back on it. Because if we're giving out about some politicians getting brown envelopes, while we're living in comfort, then I think we've lost perspective. There's so much worse that could happen, look at the likes of Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin and think how much worse it could be. I'd far rather a slightly dirty chancer of a politician who's going to keep our country and our people in comfort, than someone who has lofty ideals and doesn't care who he steps on or who he hurts while trying to reach those ideals.

Maybe I'm showing my age here, but I remember what it was like in Ireland in the 80's. At one point, we were renting rooms to lodgers, with me and the rest of my family in the sitting room on a fold out couch and a couple of mattresses; Me, my parents, my sister and our dog, all sleeping in the same room, just so we could keep a roof over our heads. I remember my first holiday was to somewhere out in Mayo. Eventually things got better, and we had our own rooms, we even went to Spain on holiday.

Now, it wasn't all that bad, we had a home, food, and I had transformers. But it just kinda puts things in perspective just how absolutely awesome we have it now. We can always find fault with what we have now, but I'm damned happy with it, I really, really am.

People here would not have had to put up with the crap that was dropped on them, if the crooked politicians "running" the country hadn't taken the plebs to the cleaners from day 1.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 29-11-2008 06:03PM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Of course we had Lucozade, we always had that as long as I can remember.

Oh right. Well then you're correct, the 80s weren't all bad.

Prof.Badass · 29-11-2008 06:03PM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Now, I don't mean that correlation as insulting...
But you talking about Castro nails it for me; you want to be part of something. It's not that there's anything overly wrong with Ireland today, but you feel like you've missed out on something, not having been part of some upheaval or revolution, not having contributed in that sense. There's nothing to struggle against, and you're dissatisfied. I think that's why you can't relate to any political parties, there's nothing you can grab onto and shout out about, no great upheaval or struggle for this generation.

WRONG!

People wouldn't want to be part of some revolution if they didn't think there was something wrong.

the paternalism of todays governments is overtly wrong and contributing largely to many problems we have today. There actually is a shift in attidudes happening right now (thanks in large part to the internet).

Times are changing, and it will only be one or two decades before society has changed to the point where we live in a socially libertarian democracy.

I say this because i am an idealist, one of many in my generation (I'm 19 btw), believe me, we're still here and change IS happening.

It's just that things always look more spectacular in retrospect.

No more idealists?

Comments