Fianna Fail

Biggins · 15-11-2008 08:58PM

Lexus1976 wrote: »

...It is guaranteed we'll be the first country in the world to pull out of it due to the resources we have at our disposal, the government we have in place and the policies they have implemented.

...Would you like to bet your complete work pension and personal savings on that?
(they've done so well so far!)

galwayrush · 15-11-2008 09:02PM

This current goverment has been in denial about ther state of the economy for a long time, and now they don't seem to have a clue what to do about it. It's not very rational to expect that the people who led us blindly into the recession are capable of finding their way out of it.

Lexus1976 · 15-11-2008 09:03PM

Biggins wrote: »

...Would you like to bet your complete work pension and personal savings on that?
(they've done so well so far!)

No they have'nt :rolleyes:

Biggins · 15-11-2008 09:07PM

Lexus1976 wrote: »

No they have'nt :rolleyes:

I wouldn't take the bet either! No sane person would.

arse..biscuits · 15-11-2008 09:08PM

stepbar wrote: »

The day Sinn Fein get into power will be the day I'll grab my coat and leave this county for good. I'd take Fianna Fail anyday. Doesn't mean I like them though.

Please explain why.

galwayrush · 15-11-2008 09:09PM

Lexus1976 wrote: »

,the government we have in place and the policies they have implemented.

E voting
Years behind other countries with Infracture and Broadband
Decentralisation
HSE and it's armies of pen pushers
Quangos
Bertiebowl
Port Tunnel, they couldn't even plan it to be high enough for large trucks
Attack the kids and old aged pensioners
Every project they started has either not worked or ended up way over budget.

Lexus1976 · 15-11-2008 09:09PM

galwayrush wrote: »

This current goverment has been in denial about ther state of the economy for a long time, and now they don't seem to have a clue what to do about it. It's not very rational to expect that the people who led us blindly into the recession are capable of finding their way out of it.

Have you heard about the american sub prime market? well thats what has caused the current global slow down. And you'd want to be bonkers to think it was Fianna Fail fault. Feck it, lets just blame them on the world recession, perhaps if they had build the metro by now the world would'nt be in a recession.:P

Biggins · 15-11-2008 09:15PM

Side issue: The fact that we are paying 1.5 million a week - 90 million a year to additional (failing) consultants is shocking.
Clearly money not well spent and a further indication of the inabilities of decision making this Fianna Fail organisation is suffering from. Just yet another failing of F.F. amidst many.

When things were going good, a prudent person/organisation would have incorporated functions/abilities for the worst in case it happened! (decent consultants would have advised this!) Did we?
No, we just took and took and took the cash, pocketed it and spent, spent, spent uselessly.

galwayrush · 15-11-2008 09:16PM

Lexus1976 wrote: »

Have you heard about the american sub prime market? well thats what has caused the current global slow down. And you'd want to be bonkers to think it was Fianna Fail fault. Feck it, lets just blame them on the world recession, perhaps if they had build the metro by now the world would'nt be in a recession.:P

Our recession was caused by the collapse of the housing bubble, not the American sub prime mortgage market.Fianna Fail did what ever they could to keep it growing, at one stage we built 90,000 units in one year despite us only needing 35,000 units per anum. 10,000 units equated to 1% national growth. When the warning signs appeared, and despite the warnings about our dependancy and overexposure to the housing bubble , the Goverment rubbished the reports and blindly carried on as if everything was nice and rosey.It seemed like they pretended it wasn't happening while hoping the problem would go away.

galwayrush · 15-11-2008 09:19PM

Biggins wrote: »

Side issue: The fact that we are paying 1.5 million a week - 90 million a year to additional (failing) consultants is shocking.
Clearly money not well spent and a further indication of the inabilities of decision making this Fianna Fail organisation is suffering from. Just yet another failing of F.F. amidst many.

That is terrible, and Harney refuses to roll out a cervical cancer prevention scheme over a paltry 10 million. Perhaps when politicians come knocking on our doors at the next election, we should ask them why they voted for an early death sentence for many of our now 12 year olds.

30txsbzmcu2k9w · 15-11-2008 09:20PM

snyper wrote: »

Great party.

fcuk the lot of ye.

People's ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Take off those blinkers and stop voting the way your mammy and daddy told ya.

Lexus1976 · 15-11-2008 09:21PM

galwayrush wrote: »

Our recession was caused by the collapse of the housing bubble, not the American sub prime mortgage market.Fianna Fail did what ever they could to keep it growing, at one stage we built 90,000 units in one year despite us only needing 35,000 units per anum. 10,000 units equated to 1% national growth. When the warning signs appeared, and despite the warnings about our dependancy and overexposure to the housing bubble , the Goverment rubbished the reports and blindly carried on as if everything was nice and rosey.It seemed like they pretended it wasn't happening while hoping the problem would go away.

Seems your confused again sub prime led to collapse of housing bubble due to debt servicing ratios.................

Any way, I enjoyed our discussion, i'm off into town now to spend money on beers as if we were still back in the celtic tiger economy. Enjoy the rest of your weekend folks.

galwayrush · 15-11-2008 09:23PM

Lexus1976 wrote: »

Seems your confused again sub prime led to collapse of housing bubble due to debt servicing ratios.................

Any way, I enjoyed our discussion, i'm off into town now to spend money on beers as if we were still back in the celtic tiger economy. Enjoy the rest of your weekend folks.

I think it was more to do with building too many houses.:p
anyways, enjoyed that, enjoy your beer.:cool:

Biggins · 15-11-2008 09:25PM

Lexus1976 wrote: »

Anyway, I enjoyed our discussion, i'm off into town now to spend money on beers as if we were still back in the celtic tiger economy. Enjoy the rest of your weekend folks.

LOL you too.

(have it good while you can still get it!) :rolleyes:

noel farrell · 15-11-2008 10:10PM

i agree with drinkmilkkids until all the young people get out and vote forget the cevil war vote with your brains not because someones ould fellow got a medal or was in some ambush or could kick a ball over the bar elect someone with brains at the moment we have a bunch of clowns and we are going to pay dearly for it iam glad the got back in and have to sort out their own mess this time sorry for the rant cheers :rolleyes:

PrivateEye · 15-11-2008 11:48PM

elect someone with brains

There's your problem.

As for forgetting civil war politics....
in certain parts of the country, you don't have a strong Fianna Fail vote- you have a strong ANTI Fine Gael vote. That kind of stuff is hard to do away with. "Your grandda shot my grandda" and all the rest. Best way around it is to admit that modern FF and modern FG have NO CONNECTIONS at all to the parties they claim they were back in the bangbang days and are now equally populated by gobsh*tes and gombeens.

ninty9er · 16-11-2008 12:19AM

PrivateEye wrote: »

There's your problem.

As for forgetting civil war politics....
in certain parts of the country, you don't have a strong Fianna Fail vote- you have a strong ANTI Fine Gael vote. That kind of stuff is hard to do away with. "Your grandda shot my grandda" and all the rest. Best way around it is to admit that modern FF and modern FG have NO CONNECTIONS at all to the parties they claim they were back in the bangbang days and are now equally populated by gobsh*tes and gombeens.

Nobody votes based on civil war politics anymore. They vote based on who gets the hole in the road fixed.

While it's clear that there are idiots in Fianna Fáil, we do not have a monopoly on idiots and may even have a smaller proportion based on the number of TDs we have.

There are decent, clever and hardworking people in all parties, but obviously there is a bias towards FF as it is bigger than FG and Labour combined in terms of national membership.

I'll be one of the first to admit there are problems with FF, but that doesn't qualify anyone to write off an organisation of almost 80,000 people as completely inept and full of idiots.

Ace2007 · 16-11-2008 12:42AM

lol threads like this really do make me laugh - look @ the last 10/15 years, Ireland grew from little or no economy to one of the best in the world, large volumns of oversea companies came to our shores due to some brillant piece of regulations that were introduce during the FF governament, Anyone under the age of 25 has never seen the bad times, we are now in "recession" and everyone thinks its the governments fault, do people not read the news - its worldwide - banks around Europe are going broke - no irish bank has gone broke yet. i suppose it the governments fault that it rains more days then it its sunny?

Yes there are fault in the irish systems, but what really is so bad... people talk about class sizes - when i was going to school there were 30+ in my class and it didn't do any harm.

People are getting laid off work and first thing they think about is the dole - "i've got kids, what are they going to do if i have no job" - ffs does anyone is this country save for a rainy day??????

Its Spend Spend Spend, most houses have 2 cars, most families take 2 holidays abroad, cut back on these things and life wouldn't be so bad....

At the end of the day people up got themselves in debt... and its no one's fault but their own.

You could have FG in government or whoever you like - the reality is that the money is not there to spend on everything people want, so where do you start. Cutback have to be made.

ninty9er · 16-11-2008 01:17AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

ffs does anyone is this country save for a rainy day??????

Its Spend Spend Spend, most houses have 2 cars, most families take 2 holidays abroad, cut back on these things and life wouldn't be so bad....

At the end of the day people up got themselves in debt... and its no one's fault but their own.

You could have FG in government or whoever you like - the reality is that the money is not there to spend on everything people want, so where do you start. Cutback have to be made.

Finally.

I've been a member of this site for almost 3 years, and that's about as sensible a post as I've seen on politics in Ireland.

gurramok · 16-11-2008 01:22AM

Ace2007 wrote:

lol threads like this really do make me laugh - look @ the last 10/15 years, Ireland grew from little or no economy to one of the best in the world, large volumns of oversea companies came to our shores due to some brillant piece of regulations that were introduce during the FF governament, Anyone under the age of 25 has never seen the bad times, we are now in "recession" and everyone thinks its the governments fault, do people not read the news - its worldwide - banks around Europe are going broke - no irish bank has gone broke yet. i suppose it the governments fault that it rains more days then it its sunny?

Ecucate yourself Ace2007 before you spout such tripe in a post

Irish banks would of went bust except for that fateful Monday where the govt guarantee came into effect. Watch 2009 for bank bad debts to appear big time.

Here, this is the reason why Ireland went into recession first.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011255.shtml

The above link shows why Ireland Inc is in such deep sh1t, all because of a housing bubble that started to bust in 2006, a year before the credit crunch in Aug 2007.

ninty9er wrote: »

Finally.

I've been a member of this site for almost 3 years, and that's about as sensible a post as I've seen on politics in Ireland.

I notice you didn't stick up for his first paragraph, dissension within FF?

ninty9er · 16-11-2008 01:32AM

gurramok wrote: »

Ecucate yourself Ace2007 before you spout such tripe in a post

Irish banks would of went bust except for that fateful Monday where the govt guarantee came into effect. Watch 2009 for bank bad debts to appear big time.

gurramok wrote: »

I notice you didn't stick up for his first paragraph, dissension within FF?

I've never been a yes man;)

I refer you to the fist quote from yourself with regard to the first part of the post. That is positive action by FF.

Property bubbles aren't specific to Ireland.

gurramok · 16-11-2008 01:43AM

ninty9er wrote: »

I refer you to the fist quote from yourself with regard to the first part of the post. That is positive action by FF.

Please elaborate?

Blaming a world recession for domestic issues is naieve. World recession issues are making the domestic situation worse.

Now that Sterling is in freefall at 86p to euro, what do FF propose to save 100,000 jobs?

ninty9er wrote:

Property bubbles aren't specific to Ireland.

Yes, only Spain and Uk have had one, the rest have not hence they are not in so much pain as us!

ninty9er · 16-11-2008 02:09AM

gurramok wrote: »

Please elaborate?

Blaming a world recession for domestic issues is naieve. World recession issues are making the domestic situation worse.

Now that Sterling is in freefall at 86p to euro, what do FF propose to save 100,000 jobs?

We certainly wouldn't be heading out of full employment if there wasn't an international crisis.

There's a CRISIS internationally, nobody is suggesting Ireland is in crisis....at least nobody credible.

What do YOU suggest?

gurramok wrote: »

Yes, only Spain and Uk have had one, the rest have not hence they are not in so much pain as us!

US, Japan, basically any country with a high level of home ownership. Having the highest level of home ownership on the planet in recent years won't have helped matters.

You don't see Germans crying about negative equity because a large proportion of the population rent.

Ace2007 · 16-11-2008 02:13AM

gurramok wrote: »

Ecucate yourself Ace2007 before you spout such tripe in a post

Irish banks would of went bust except for that fateful Monday where the govt guarantee came into effect. Watch 2009 for bank bad debts to appear big time.

Here, this is the reason why Ireland went into recession first.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011255.shtml

The above link shows why Ireland Inc is in such deep sh1t, all because of a housing bubble that started to bust in 2006, a year before the credit crunch in Aug 2007.

I notice you didn't stick up for his first paragraph, dissension within FF?

Regardless of wheahter the banks were resure they didn't go bust... unlike some european banks - would you have prefered for the government to say F**k you - you got yourselves into the mess you can suffer - result would be 10 times worse.

Who created the housing boom that you refer to - was it not the people who decide to pay way over the odds for houses, i've seen people pay 1.5 million for a house that needs a new roof/ needs central heating, and then gut the place top to bottom, whats wrong with the house they had - nobody needs to be living in a house that costs that much. These same people are driving expensive cars, one only has to look at the number of "expensive" cars that have been bought over the years, a car is a car - gets you from A to B - so why spend 50/60K - just cause your neighbour has one???

you clearly aren't living in the real world or you are clearly up to your neck in debt and are trying to blame someone other than yourself for getting into that mess.

Ireland is a nation of bling, people buying top label this and top label that, maxin out a couple of cc here and there - ah sure i'll pay it off later.

greatgoal · 16-11-2008 02:15AM

snyper wrote: »

Joker, like the rest of the lemmings in the media and here on boards you like to fire of sh1te without 1 single decent substanciated argument

its easy to shíte talk and blame the government without knowing a single fact about politics and whats involved in running a country

and what do you mean by that Mr. Cowan?

gurramok · 16-11-2008 02:31AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Regardless of wheahter the banks were resure they didn't go bust... unlike some european banks - would you have prefered for the government to say F**k you - you got yourselves into the mess you can suffer - result would be 10 times worse.

Who created the housing boom that you refer to - was it not the people who decide to pay way over the odds for houses, i've seen people pay 1.5 million for a house that needs a new roof/ needs central heating, and then gut the place top to bottom, whats wrong with the house they had - nobody needs to be living in a house that costs that much. These same people are driving expensive cars, one only has to look at the number of "expensive" cars that have been bought over the years, a car is a car - gets you from A to B - so why spend 50/60K - just cause your neighbour has one???

you clearly aren't living in the real world or you are clearly up to your neck in debt and are trying to blame someone other than yourself for getting into that mess.

Ireland is a nation of bling, people buying top label this and top label that, maxin out a couple of cc here and there - ah sure i'll pay it off later.

Agree, agree, agree. People are naturally greedy and will jump at any opportunity to enhance that greed.

The govt did nothing to stop the banks reckless lending all that debt to the populace hence why things are so bad now. The esteemed Bertie even encouraged buyers to buy houses in 2006 as he knew it kept the coffers overflowing with VAT, stamp duty and CGT receipts.

Your above post contradicts with your support of the govt as below

we are now in "recession" and everyone thinks its the governments fault, do people not read the news - its worldwide - banks around Europe are going broke - no irish bank has gone broke yet. i suppose it the governments fault that it rains more days then it its sunny?

ninty9er wrote:

We certainly wouldn't be heading out of full employment if there wasn't an international crisis.
There's a CRISIS internationally, nobody is suggesting Ireland is in crisis....at least nobody credible.
What do YOU suggest?

Cut the public sector, roll back the benchmarking to the private sector level of wages for a start??
Create export led industry that have been absent since 2002ish?

ninty9er wrote:

US, Japan, basically any country with a high level of home ownership. Having the highest level of home ownership on the planet in recent years won't have helped matters.

You don't see Germans crying about negative equity because a large proportion of the population rent.

You seem to have a good grasp of things. If we bothered to create good rental laws which encouraged renting, it would help get us off the obsession of owning.
But that will never happen as FF are associated with property interests. Frank Fahey's 40 gaffs come to mind

Ace2007 · 16-11-2008 02:45AM

how do my posts contradict each other - i'm sayin that the reason why Ireland is in such a state today is because of the people being greedy and not the government.

Example:

A man and wife say 10 years ago lived in a 4 bedroom house in Artane, economy started to build up, the celtic tiger awoke, trade unions got stronger hence pay packages got bigger, so now the couple decide to buy a new house in say Glasnevin(an upgrade) the new house they buy is more or less the same with a downstairs toilet, grand, they now have a xxxk or so mortgage over 30 years. they then decide a sure life is good i'll buy a merc, the wife then has a few kids - an sure i'll buy a BMW X5 jeep, everything is going smoothly.

O but wait 2 years later, the husband is let go from his job due to a recession, they have no savings cause they spent nearly 100K on cars, omg what will i do - my next door neighbour is in the same boat - o wait lets blame the government.

But hold on lets not - lets rewind a bit - the move to glasnevin - fair enough - but the cars, they could have gotten for way less - saved maybe 60K - hmm 60K could be 3 years mortgage - hmm perhaps the economy will be back on its feet in 3 years...

All in all - people were greedy and now the greed has caught up with them, lets take the SISA scheme - when was stated huge numbers of people took up the government's offer - surely that means that these same people have savings or did they just blow it all?????

mumhaabu · 16-11-2008 02:52AM

Fianna Fail are undergoing internal political turmoil at the moment, the elites of the party are seizing power left right and centre (pardon the pun). The entire convention process wheras a candidate gets picked by convention ie. democratically by the party members is now replaced by an interview which is conducted by a group of biased cronies.

They are expecting meltdown and the party is in complete damage limitation mode and alot of the more sensible moderates with ethics will leave in a mass schism soon, especialy younger members. If libertas do set up expect the fragments of the PD's plus a lot of ex fianna fail to begin the building process of it. In 20 years time FF will be a minority party around the size of Labour today.

Biggins · 16-11-2008 03:17AM

There does seem to be a greater deal of dis-heartened party members (on all sides) than ever before.
As mumhaabu has suggested, maybe change is coming, we can only hope in that and in also that it will be an improvement in what has gone before.

I'm presently at a loss. I wish to support a party/organisation that has some sort of creditability but right now I don't see any viable options that can carry the day and Ireland into a positive future and as a parent's perspective alone, that is worrying.

Ace2007 · 16-11-2008 03:21AM

Biggins wrote: »

There does seem to be a greater deal of dis-heartened party members (on all sides) than ever before.
As mumhaabu has suggested, maybe change is coming, we can only hope in that and in also that it will be an improvement in what has gone before.

improvement on what has gone before - obv you have never studied history or heard about the 80's in Ireland, or have you every heard of the simple expression what go up must come down...

Ireland was @ the centre stage in europe for the last 8 years - everyone wanted to work here,

what more do you want?

Fianna Fail

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